My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
WC, I think this gentleman does a very good job with his review videos. In the linked video below, he is comparing the sound of different tubes in a preamp. IMHO, the differences are easily discernible. He also discusses how he sets up his gear for the comparisons. He also does a short take of the song before switching the gear. I think this improves the pace of the review. This may be of help as you get more into the video reviews. https://youtu.be/RltJw004j3c
First, respect the law. Copyrights exists for a reason.
Second, you really have to be a biased fanboy to believe you can honestly judge the differences between 30k$ of powercords recording with a cellular phone...
Third, you know you’re not going anywhere doing the wrong things on youtube specially when some audiogoners have friends working there...
My first notes here were based on listening using my Lyngdorf with room perfect as a pre-amp. I'll compare again listening direct through my Class A Tube setup which is a pretty big step up from the Lyngdorf in air, bass control and reproduction as well as sound-stage depth and detail retrieval.
ron17251 posts02-21-2020 9:10amOn my Mac laptop both cables sounded good although I was not familiar with the music. To me the Odin1 sounded more spacious, detailed and the reverberation time and decay seemed to go on forever (which I believe was the recording engineers intent). The Audiomica cables did sound fuller but less detailed and spacious....Listening to these cables back to back sounded like the Nordost Val2 vs Odin1 in my system. The Val2 sounded fuller (in the upper bass and lower midrange) than the Odin1. The O1 was more neutral with more weight (deeper bass), more spacious, detailed and much better holographic soundstage.
I think a more ’straight up’ recording without all of the added reverb and artificial effects would be a better piece of music to compare these cables. Vocals, Bass, guitar or piano and drums without added effects....or a small live acoustic jazz trio. To be able to hear how quick a stand-up bass or kick drum decays is important to me...less smearing, clear details etc...
Hearing the presentation at your house might yield different results. That’s the best I could do through a laptop. Thank you for sharing with us.
After listening to the initial video several times, I am hearing much the same as Ron here. Especially focusing on the drums, they are more distant with less detail on Audiomica. The Nordost places just as much emphasis on the vocals without lessening the impact and details of the drum kit. Overall with Nordost there is more air between instruments and a more spacious and deeper sound-stage. The sound is more detailed with Nordost without loss of musicality.
Whoa. I’m actually quite impressed that he has taken the time to read my thoughts on everything I've reviewed. Very honored to know they follow this thread ! Stay tuned GRYPHON AUDIO. Your turn is coming to jump in the spotlight and see how you do versus an American brand (constellation audio ) Cheers !
Have not watched the cable shootout video, as I am not interested. I am posting here, because something very interesting just happened. I received a PM, through A'gon, from Mr. Flemming Rasmussen, asking me to make a correction in my above post, as it went like this. " Just to let you know, that ALL Gryphon electronics the last 25 years are done in-house by Gryphons own R/D department and headed with the same head engineer for 20 years, Mr. Tom Mueller-Only exception has been of the passive speakers ". So, I was vague about these facts. I apologize to Mr, Rasmussen, as I was unaware of these facts. What is more amazing. Look at the people who are reading these threads here. Saying things bad about a product, or in my case, vague, can easily get back to a manufacturer, importer, or others. This is why, imo, I do not see bad reviews, anywhere.......Enjoy ! MrD.
Ok guys , I've decided to do a part 2 of this video where I will be playing a song that is very familiar to us: Hotel California by The Eagles. I hope this will allow you to hear things better since it should be a recording we all know very well. Video to come shortly.
On my Mac laptop both cables sounded good although I was not familiar with the music. To me the Odin1 sounded more spacious, detailed and the reverberation time and decay seemed to go on forever (which I believe was the recording engineers intent). The Audiomica cables did sound fuller but less detailed and spacious....Listening to these cables back to back sounded like the Nordost Val2 vs Odin1 in my system. The Val2 sounded fuller (in the upper bass and lower midrange) than the Odin1. The O1 was more neutral with more weight (deeper bass), more spacious, detailed and much better holographic soundstage.
I think a more 'straight up' recording without all of the added reverb and artificial effects would be a better piece of music to compare these cables. Vocals, Bass, guitar or piano and drums without added effects....or a small live acoustic jazz trio. To be able to hear how quick a stand-up bass or kick drum decays is important to me...less smearing, clear details etc...
Hearing the presentation at your house might yield different results. That's the best I could do through a laptop. Thank you for sharing with us.
I had no problem discriminating between the two recordings played back on the single speaker of my old/trusty iPhone 6S. Tentatively, I heard more "air" and low level information from the AudioMica...
Having said the above, this afternoon I will play back the clip on my system.... Will post my updated impressions in the evening.
The audio quality was so poor that I stopped a few seconds into the recording. Have used this playback format for many other high end comparisons with no issues differentiating the content.
Whoaaa... The comments are really all over the place. Some are saying the Odin is too bright and others are saying it is smeared..then I am also hearing from others that the audiomica is fuller but not as clear as the Odin, etc etc. I guess this is really about: What are you using to listen ? Phone ? iPad? Computer ? Audiophile headphones ? I suggest that you all at least TRY to listen using different devices BEFORE you come to a conclusion. It is very important that you all do this first.
Thanks WC for the video. I went back and forth 6 times and even though I did hear differences it was the Audiomica that was fuller but more important it came across as musical. The Odin seemed brighter with more top end but lacked a rythm to the sound. Just my opinion.
How can you evaluate your system and especially cables without cable lifters? Do you want much better sound in 10 minutes? You MUST try these cheap things....you can make them out of cardboard for NADA. What are you waiting for? All your cables should be off the floor for best sound.
Cable shootout of Odin vs audiomica laboratories consequence! It’s 1230am and I have to up at 5am! The things I do for those of you who appreciate it ! Enjoy !
No review yet of the Gryphon Colosseum ? It’s a pity the Dag and Pass are gone. The shootout will only be between the bright sounding Constellation monos which I really do not find appealing with their messed up inside quality build.
.....I have heard a few Gryphon products, and was always impressed by a " detailed purity, smoothness and control ", to the reproduction ( and, never through horns ). As an FYI, Flemming Rasmussen, the Founder and now ex CEO of Gryphon (although still involved with the company ), has been responsible for the visual and aesthetic designs of the products, and of course, uses his ears as to the final product introduction. The electrical circuits and designs, have been by some unnamed world class designers. I always found this weird, but it has worked for the Danish company. The Colosseum design, reminds me of some Halcro amplifiers, being tower designs, but taken to another level. Beautiful. I would love to own a pair of D'Agostino Relentless Monos. Wondering how they would do, driving my Lascala's, lol. I am typing this during the commercials of the Daytona 500, and am finding it fascinating, the information and the camera work, being displayed and provided, as we, the home audience, can get a greater understanding of it all. I hope there are no mishaps, and all of the drivers come out of it safely. I would imagine, you, WC, have a great understanding of the race, specifically the vehicles. Enjoy !
Personally I love the refined industrial look of Gryphon. The Antilleon, Diablo, Mephisto are all very cool looking IMO.
I'm very happy with my BAT VK_6200, but if I ever decide to upgrade to a dedicated 2 channel amp, I would definitely consider Gryphon. Both in looks and performance they are SOTA or very near SOTA at their price points.
Hello, seriously thank you for all the detail and time. I have two amps. My main is an older Marsh Sound design HT500 three channel amp. I like it because there is a separate transformer for each amp and the detail on my system is great. When I want to rock out I use my older Sony class A 200 watts per channel amp. It has no limit. It will push my speakers to my listening limit with pure power. I am pretty sure you need power with those speakers. Emotiva are too Sheryl for my taste but so are Hegel’s. Maybe a Jeff Rowland. I heard his class D amps are to die for. Also I agree with the tube pre and the SS amp. The tubes in the pre are cheep, last a while, and add a bit of personality to your system.
Thank you guys. Im happy that some of you have been happy with my recommendations. That's all I really need in order to keep this journey alive. Cheers !
Jana does a great job on all her videos. She’s a real pro, such a joy and a breath of fresh air in our hobby. WC does a great job too. I’m the proud owner of a Luxman amp, due in large part to his review. It’s given me hours our beautiful music. Thank you for that sir!
Everyone should checkout the video posted on youtube "Listen to a One Million Dollar hi-fi system by Jana Dagdagan' not only does this young woman present herself well the Aries System is amazing.
The video is extremely well done and informative, anyone making these types of video WC, should check this out. By stating you don't have time to check out other sites, you'd save time and actually learn more quicker by going on WBF like get your cables off the damn carpet.
I found this video on the Whatsbestforum, anyone not reading through WBF is truly missing out. Ive learned more about this hobby on that site and Computer Audiophile than any other site.
While Audiogon is enjoyable and their are certainly things for the beginner to learn there is just too much BS and trolls on this site anymore.
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