My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

WC: something that would be pretty interesting while you still have the m10x would be comparing it to the $10k Luxman 509X integrated amp, class AB just like the m10x.  How close does the integrated come to the best separate power amp under $30k. That would draw a lot of interest, I submit 

The chances of WC comparing Gryphon Essence with Boulder 1160 seem low for at least three reasons.

1. Gryphon Essence has already lost head to head versus Luxman M10x per WC. Ie, that was WC’s assessment, plus the overwhelming consensus of those who voted - 3 to 1. Therefore, why would he go back to a losing (in shootout, per him) amp?

2. He doesn’t own the Essence and borrowed Carlos’. Carlos isn’t going to bring it again to have it compete in the loser’s bracket.

3. WC made pretty clear he was doing that low end (for him) shootout not for his enjoyment. He does about one per year, max, and then reverts to hi end where he plays.

so I don’t think you’ll see it.

But the affordable dac shootout should be great. Interested to hear the candidates

Just wanted to add that Jay has so much shit in the middle of his speakers hes probably seriously screwing up his staging and overall performance. Get that gear off to the side or pushed to the back... open up the space in the middle dude. And get rid of S7 and at least go back to M6. M series owns S series. And you HAD IT! The day you sold it I facepalmed so hard.

I heard M2 vs S7 and found M2 better in almost all regards except bass extension and spl.

@viber6 Yup well said. Many are against bias circuits as they feel it degrades sound quality. People like Nelson Pass don't like this. I know Jay talks shit about Nelson but thats fine... I will continue to enjoy his products.

Oh and the 'lo-fi' tier for people who don't pay Jay enough is hilarious. LOL. Don't be Lo fi bro... pay Jay more. smh

Hi @viber6   Damn you.   really.   Now I am looking at a nice streamer upstairs to feed my makua  w tambaqui.

Thoughts?  I will keep my Nucleus, so oly need a streamer w USB output.

I have the same feeling when Jay got the XLF as now when he has the Boulder monos. Sorry man, just being honest. 

Loved the last shootout btw!

Sit down, wear headphones and put your seatbelt on !

This is what 4 horsepower feels like !

yyz,

An amp that doubles power capability as the impedance halves means that its power supply is good, by maintaining the same voltage capability.  Similarly, pure class A offers the highest linearity and avoidance of notch distortion.  BUT BUT--

Pure class A maintained all the time at any power level and load runs HOT.  I have had negative experiences with hot electronics.  The most famous of pure class A amps was the Mark Levinson ML2, 25 watt mono.  It weighed 65 lbs, perhaps the highest weight/watt ratio.  In the late 70's, MSRP was about $2000/mono, or $4000 for a measly 25 watts stereo.  It put Levinson on the map as the most expensive amp by far.  I bought it used around 1980.  Initially, it was wonderfully neutral and revealing, so I worshipped the man Levinson.  But after a few hundred hours of use, the sound melted into a syrupy morass.  I began to think that its excessive heat also melted the sound.  I had a similar experience with the stereo Bedini 25W class A which ran hot.  The Bedini was even a more syrupy puddle of molasses.  I owned a few tube amps like Grant Lumley and ARC which had much more neutral sound than Levinson and Bedini.  Similar experiences with 2" high Spectral and Goldmund Mimesis amps which ran hot.  

I believe that heat stability is a major factor for circuits.  Transistors change characteristics with temperature.  Whatever the circuit, it performs best at a certain, stable temperature.  But I intuitively believe that very high temps are bad.  So I believe that buzzword phrases like "power doubles with halving of impedance" and "pure class A that runs hot" are misleading goals for purity of sound.  Boulder is undoubtedly aware of the risks of hot amps, and cleverly offers class A operation to some degree, but maintains the temperature at a sensible level for best sound and long term stability.

There are many factors that contribute to great sounding amps.  The two I have mentioned--power doubling and pure class A cannot be the sole criteria, any more than very low THD.  So I hope Jay can get the opportunity to A/B the comparably modest priced Boulder 1161 class AB against Gryphon Essence class A.

@viber I believe the new KRELL KSA i400 that is expected next month has 400 Class A watts. It doubles to 800 and doubles again to 1600. I think it will have a rating at 1 Ohm too. However, the 400 Class A watts do not double.

smodtactical,

Thanks for your explanation of the sliding class A technique used in the Boulder 3050.  Long ago, I had the JVC M-7050, based on a sliding class A technique called Super A.  Krell Duo series utilizes a similar technique.  I don't know why Boulder does this in its top flagship amp.  Marketing people may believe that very powerful 1500W  class A sells better than 300W of pure class A, but 300W doubling to 600/4, 1200/2 and 2400/1 in pure class A probably offers any sensible listener plenty of quantity with the highest quality.

Jay,

The membership pricing is fair, so that only serious contributors are entitled to extra content and closer interaction with you.  My only reservation is the naming of the three tiers.  "Low-fi" and "mid-fi" are insulting terms that imply that those members are seeking low and mid fidelity systems.  The truth is that they are all working hard within their budgets to obtain the best possible system.  I suggested alternative names, such as good, better, best, or simply tier 1, 2, 3.

Man I just don't get how people complain here that you are too defensive when they snipe about your new membership tiers being pricey, as if they expect you to continue to do all the work and spend all that cash for nothing but their titillation. 

@kairosman 

You freaking NAILED IT!!  Thank you for this. Most people want me to do a public service and do this for free. They want to pick the gear i should buy next WITH MY MONEY, they want to manipulate the way i conduct business because five years ago i was doing this for free so for them it should continue to be free and there should be ZERO vision of turning this hard work, financial investment AND TIME into a prosperous future. The truth is that i take all the risk because i don't have business partners who are invested in this. 

Here's a personal fact: MY WIFE doesn't EVER EVER tell me what to buy even if it's not audio related yet she has full rights to do so!  

One reason WHY i decided to not make the membership $1.99 is because i don't want "curious georges" in there who's only intention is to come back to the forums to complain about the content or whatever else they feel itches them. 

I planned the pricing with my wife and a few people from the industry and we all knew that pricing like this would mean less memberships but we protect my work from curious personalities that only seek to destroy. 

Man I just don't get how people complain here that you are too defensive when they snipe about your new membership tiers being pricey, as if they expect you to continue to do all the work and spend all that cash for nothing but their titillation. Almost everyone on the internet seems to think everything should be free - until they try to monetize something as well. Sorta reminds me of my university profs who bitched all the time about evil capitalism but who were only too willing to stab each other in the back for cushy tenure gigs only made possible by evil capitalists who endowed the "Chairs" of their department... as my WW2 vet grandpa liked to say when I bugged him to tell me war stories after about his 4th or 5th Scotch, "you don't get bacon at the grocery store without the pigs first getting murdered at the slaughterhouse."

@jays_audio_lab

Yes Sir, I throughly enjoyed the $30K. shootout, thank you for making that happen. Just to be clear, when I commented about Boulder/Gryphon I was referring specifically about the tier one heavyweights of amplification. Nevertheless, Thanks for clarifying, I recall you mentioning in your vids that resale is taken into account when acquiring new uber level gear. Makes sense.

@jl1ny

I don’t have control over what comes my way. Some brands are highly protected and are scared to be in the spotlight in my room because if i expose them by comparing them with gryphon or Boulder, it wouldn’t be good for business.

That said, didn’t i just do a 3 way amp shootout which includes other amp brands ? I’m surprised you feel this way after seeing the amount of work i embarked on to put together that shootout..which by the way it wasn’t for me... that was for you all...

I’m surprised yet not surprised that the big guy went with Boulder. I’ve been a fan of his content here and on YouTube so I know what he’s had in the lab but I can’t help but wonder why Jay limits himself to Boulder and Gryphon when there some serious players in the uber amp game, quite possibly superior to his new heavyweight champion. 

The real audio revolution is on the Peachtree Gan 1 Beta thread.......this $2K pure digital amp already beat $15K of world class electronics......It’s only just begun. Imagine a tweaked version running off the worlds best steamer, digial cable and running off an inverter/Puritan....you would die and go to heaven. Thank you God.

No DAC, no Preamp, no analog cables, no Analog circuits and amplifiers with feedback.....just very pure sound.

This thing weighs 10lbs.!!!!!!! over 150 watts a channel.

The possiblities are endless. You could use a stereo amp per channel and use a digital xover like the minidsp and you could run a two way speaker without analog xovers....getting even more pure sound. The manufacturer of the boards (Elegant Audio Solutions) have boards with 4 channels on them.......so you could quad amp a 3 or 4 way speaker without analog xovers.......the revolution is here!

@viber6

It doesn't feel hot because its not full class A for the full amount all the time. It is a sliding bias circuit that delivers class A power as needed. If it was really 1500 watts pure class A it would be far bigger. Pass XS300 is just 300 watts class A and its a 4 chassis monster.

@roxy54 "so there's no need for you to get so defensive. "

Well said. I think Jay needs to honestly just chill. No need to clap back everyone who says something you don't like.

Interesting revelation about the Boulder 3050 vs 3060.  Of course, 1500W class A gives you more power than you can handle.  I am puzzled about how the huge class A power doesn't feel hot.  Usually pure class A is hot even putting out low power.  Even the G Essence 50W pure class A runs hot.

Even the 3060 has more power than you need with the S7.  How do the amps compare at low levels for their tonal signatures?  Even at 82 dB, the amps are not drawing much power.  If the 3050 sounds round and smooth, and the 3060 sounds more speedy with more snap, then you can't say that one is superior to the other.  That is just your current preference.  Time will tell.  For certain music, you will want speedy, and for other music, relaxed and smooth.

This reminds me of your experience with ARC ref 10 vs ref 6 preamps, where the flagship 10 is smooth like a yacht (your same words then and now), and the 6 is like a speedboat (same words again).  I recall you liked the 10 sometimes, and the 6 other times.

Preferences and superiority have nothing to do with MSRP.

Yep it sure has, I agree!

I'm with Roxy, a bit surprised, but not looking for a fight, just expressing a reaction.  Seems to me this has been morphing of late, and to something different than it started out as.  Just my view, not more.  

Thank you both for the support 👍

Mid tier membership for me also....fun stuff.  I'm guessing the YouTube crowd is where most of the memberships are coming from. 

fwiw I am in the mid-tier and am enjoying the extra videos, rankings etc. Everyone has their own budgets, of course, for me it is absolutely worth it as I enjoy Jay's commentary and opinions - and I am getting more of that from the subscription.  As like I mentioned before, I really like providing some monetary support for all the work Jay puts in every day. For me, I feel it is the least I can do given the 5+ years of info, knowledge sharing and entertainment on this thread, youtube and now on his website.  just imho

oh my...

@jays_audio_lab 

I asked the question out of pure curiosity Jay, and in the nicest way possible; and it is my right to do so. I didn't criticize or defame you in any way, so there's no need for you to get so defensive. 

I'm sure that you have your subscribers as you said. I was just wondering who from Audiogon might be among them; and I still await their responses. I wasn't speaking to you, but you chose to respond anyway.

@roxy54

The same could be said about my half a million dollar monos...why should I bring them when poor audiophiles (this is what you stated above, not me) can’t afford them ?

Also, why are you worried who else signed up? If 5,000 people came forward to say they did, will that make you feel amazing or piss poor because you can’t afford it?

There is ZERO point in you asking this, but since i know my members, here’s a fun fact for you:

Most of the memberships sold are in the Mid-Fi and Ultra-Hi Fi tier groups... The least memberships sold are under the Low-fi group... And yes there are more than 2 total memberships sold.

Jay

Wow! I mean WOW! I just saw the three-tier price list for membership on Jay's youtube site. I was pretty shocked. I'm not making any judgements as to the value of these offerings, but as your average poor audiophile, I am curious about how many here are actually members, and if so, what tier you are subscribing to. Show of hands?  

WC,

You mentioned that the 3050's are the best amps in the U.S.  I know you have tried some D'Agostino amps - have you tried the Relentless Epic 1600 mono amps?

Dave

@purefacts 

Much appreciated. Enjoy the show today !

Ok folks ,

Time to meet THE BEST POWER AMPLIFIER I HAVE EVER OWNED IN MY LIFE!

How would you describe the tonal character of the DAVE vs Tambaqui?

Also note I did not take the pair of over 100 pound amps back downstairs!  I waited on the new ones no matter the issue!  Many people have a set of spares...not me just boxes.  I would have tried may but I am not into the buying, trying and returning. Well, just once!

Hi @viber6,  both rooms are great. I know what you mean about the cathedral ceilings. Some recordings just go sky high. My upstairs system is no slouch it just doesn’t have the better streamer. It’s the lugging of the speakers up and down that’s a huge problem. I know I tried the salon 2’s downstairs and they were just too tall. I like both rooms I like sitting and listening critical in each room for the differences to appreciate. I am very fortunate. I didn’t think the Tambaqui was a small improvement over my Vega. It was very significant. I had tried the DAVE in-house in between . I was not so impressed. The upstairs room is also livelier. It has glass on one side and should have reflective issues but it does not seem to cause any. Downstairs is more cocoon like and I like that also. I wish you could come visit.

when I brought by maxes upstairs to see how they sounded versus the Kaluga‘s I was so impressed I immediately called Bill and ordered another pair. They were of course supposed to be here in three or four weeks. I believe her like four months. So I had no amplification downstairs. I bought a pair of Parasound  JC1+.

So disappointing they went right back.

Jay,

I just watched your video where at the end you say you don't have the time to tweak vinyl.  From all your business activities, I get your priorities.  But just like you made an about-face with the Boulder 3060 in favor of the new $200K+ amp based on the sound, you could easily get smitten with Oz's TT setup.  Then you will want to tweak it on some simple level just as you have tweaked your other components.    Even if you don't tinker with Oz's setup, you will find it rewarding to experiment with the Boulder phono stage loading options.  Oz likes tubes and mellow Koetsu cartridges, and might prefer a loading of 100 ohms or so, but for your desire for neutrality and speed, you probably will prefer 1000 ohms, the highest setting on the Boulder.  

Haha, I have seen this movie before!!

fastfreight,

As I read you, you found the Tambaqui DAC a small, but significant improvement over the Auralic Vega DAC.  Did you try the Chord DAVE?

I like cathedral ceilings, which turn an ordinary low ceiling room into a concert hall with more free spaciousness, sort of like a horn speaker.  I would think you might prefer the upstairs to the downstairs system with the same components?  Easy to try.

Good Morning Jay, @ron17, and @viber6,  Nice to hear from you all.

Jay - i am poking fun with the 'uber rich' comment.  Please forgive me! My point was maybe you could get some in for reviews now with all your cred!

Ron17 and viber 6, yes I am a GTT supporter and think the world of Bill as a salesman and honest guy.  He has a bit of my money.  I also started with a Mola Mola system of Makua with built in Tabaqui and Kaluga amps.  Beautiful in the family room, and drove my Salon 2's effortlessly.  Then I went (what I then called all in) for the Audionet Pre G2 and Max amps downstairs to go with my N802s.  My DAC downstairs was an  Auralic Vega.  I liked both systems.  But when I got my Tambaqui downstairs, the difference was subtly stunning (is that an oxymoron??).

I then sold the B and W's and upgraded to Hailey 2.1s for downstairs.  Now the difference was less than subtle.  The microdynamics, sparkle and just wanting to go down there.  Since I have Roon, and can play the same music on both systems, it is easy to walk up and down and compare in real time.  So I asked bill what was the difference?  Same DAC, etc.  He said the amps.  So I kept my Makua Preamp with internal Tambaqui and got another pair of Max's!  Wow.  The Salon 2's came to life!

The upstairs room is cathedral ceilings and the whole house long (family room, eat in, kitchen) and the tall Salon's fill the room, nicely aided by REL Carbon  Specials.

I liked the Salon 2s so much I lugged them downstairs to try.  They were too tall for my near positioned couch.  Back upstairs they went and thenIi got the Haileys.

This combo is amazing as well. It is the amps that are super fast, highly resolving, and non fatiguing.  And the Makua still looks great.  the amps sit below and are hardly noticeable.  My equipment is on the side upstairs, so except for the long speaker runs (homemade 8g copper with good solder) (under the floor) it looks and sounds great with speakers beside the fireplace.

i am working on my digital front end lately.  I have added an Auralic Aries G2.1 streamer and  it made a big improvement.  I then asked Sean Jacobs to make me a custom power supply for it, as i had heard about this.  It was more $ than my streamer, but the results are stunning.  Really.  I also enjoy a Muon Filter system in both  lodations and have a JCAT M12 coming soon!

Ironic to talk about sound.  My best Audiophile buddy moved to Florida (what was he thinking?) and I am here in Maryland.  Would love to get together with like minded folks!  Ken

1!

Ha, that vid was basically awesome. Fired up WC is fun - way to slap the folks who are mad about the Luxman/Gryphon decision. I loved how you explained that you couldn’t care less about which brand wins because you’ve owned them all and don’t have any allegiance -- that is just impossible for many to understand but it’s why your feedback is so unbiased. Also some just can’t disassociate with preconceived notions about how some brands should or shouldn’t sound. That’s too bad. Way to keep it real, bravo.

Edit: and north of $200k msrp can’t be Gryphon Apex, so it must be something else. Hmmm, DaTZeel I think

fastfreight,

Several years ago, I went to Bill Parish's wonderful home and listened in several great rooms.  First time, he discussed how the Mola Mola Kaluga class D amp was the best amp for neutrality/clarity.  Bruno Putzeys had supposedly tweaked his MM Kaluga after hearing Bill's Soulution 700 series amp.  Bill said the MM was better than Soulution.  I didn't get to hear that comparison.  But we listened and compared an Audionet  (neither Stern nor Heisenberg) to the MM.  We agreed that MM is for people who prioritize clarity/neutrality, and Audionet has some warmth.  Not surprisingly, most of his customers prefer Audionet.

Uber rich with my website? Huh ?

How can I be Uber rich when i just opened it like a week ago...you're assuming a bit much...

I also have no plans to bring that line through the distributor. If it happens, it will be because someone traded it in to me for the equipment I'm selling on here or my website. 

Folks - you all have to understand one thing: I won't pay "customer prices" anymore. I've done my boot camp on YouTube for nearly 3 years and over 700 videos. 

The only way i pay the same price as a normal customer is if i REALLY want the product and i don't have options. I leverage the used market 90% of the time for this same reason. My days of paying customer prices are long gone. 

You all saw my last video. I layed it out raw and uncut. 

Congratulations Jay on your website! I find some things very interesting in your journey. Either fortunately or unfortunately, your initial diatribe is repeated on every page. Look at all the amplifiers you said were great or may be the greatest! None of these compare to the equipment you know own and  tout. You and all of us have learned so much. One is that if you pay more you usually get nicer stuff. But so interesting that things you thought were maybe the best amps or nearly the best amps ever are now in your burial site. Anyway, now that you are more than Uber rich with your website,  please contact Bill at GTT and get in the Stern and Heisenberg amps to compare to what you were now using. I sound like a broken record I know. But I also know how good they sound! Ken 

The yen has gotten destroyed in the past year. No surprise Luxman can hold US prices.

It's good to have a setup man like Oz to get you started.  However, his tastes differ from yours, and it really is easy to make slight adjustments as I mentioned.  I am not much of a DIY'er, but these are easy things to do, just like trying new cables.  These things affect the sound much more than you realize.  Daveyf said that tonearm cables matter a lot, but even I haven't bothered with that, because that is like getting under the suspension of a car.  Like you, I wouldn't mess around with that.

If you watched my last video, i specifically said NO TINKERING will be happening. This is why Oz will come and set it up for me and I'll be pushing play. I spent the money on a good cartridge and turntable and a turntable expert will do all the tinkering. My evaluation will come from the presentation itself. 

I'm paying for the 2500 HP dodge viper twin turbo and taking it to the homestead speedway. I don't have the desire to get under it,  turn wrenches and adjust the suspension or swap out cams. 

Jay,

When you initially hear the TT setup, it will be a shock, but many things will have to settle.  Don't draw quick conclusions as to whether analog or digital is best.  My experience with many cartridges is that at first the sound is bright, and then after 100 hours or so, the sound mellows out and stabilizes.  The cantilever suspension is probably tight at first, then loosens up.  Years later, an aging cartridge is like people who get sagging skin and muscles as they age.  Then you can try loading options on the phono preamp.  Higher loading brightens the sound, but too low loading causes loose, rolled off HF.  Raising the vertical tracking angle by raising the arm pivot brightens the sound and rolls off bass.  Lighter tracking force increases HF at the risk of mistracking,  You can do all these adjustments judiciously based on your tastes.

You will need at least 1-2 months to explore all these TT/arm/cartridge/phono loading options.  Meanwhile, you can share your experience at various stages of experimentation.  This will make great content.