Thanks guys. I plan to keep playing with speaker placement but I did say that I wasn't doing this until the speakers have more hours on them. I think I have around 400 hours on them right now and I was told I need 1,000 hours.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Greetings georgehifi, I thought I’d jump right in and add my 2 cents in regarding the best band for the buck. I personaly have owned the Parasound JC1’S and must say that in my opinion The BHK 300 Mono’s blow them away! Lets not forget the Great Bascom H. King of Constellation Audio a super high end audio engineer who has joined forces with Paul McGowen of PS audio to design and build the fabulous BHK Signature Products now popping up all over the internet a great 40-50% savings in the secondary market due to the direct sales shake up, "Grab them before there gone at those insane prices". |
I can't believe I reached today's posts, it kind of shocked me as I felt I would never get caught up after starting on page one. I have been tempted to chime in many times, but usually another poster makes my point or near enough, but now that I am current I would like to add my thanks and express my admiration for WCSS! It has been educational, informative, thought provoking and aggravating but following your adventure has mostly been pure enjoyment. Thanks to all the other contributors, some I like much more than others, but as an open forum this is a pretty well ordered and well behaved group, of which I am proud to be among. It is going to be strange not have a seemingly unending thread ahead of me, but I will look forward to each new post. Joe |
Jay I really Wished you got to hear the Pass XS Amps and Preamp Altogether on the GT Audio Works speaker at Capital Audiofest this weekend. You have truly never heard how incredible this gear is until you listen to them on the GT Speakers. Here is the first review from Stereophile - which basically said the sound was spectacular and relaxing and can compete with anything out there cost no object. https://www.stereophile.com/content/gt-audioworks-loudspeakers-pass-laboratories-eletronics-basis-au... |
I follow similar principles just outlined by technik. If you want heavy bass and bloated images, place the speakers close to the walls and far apart from each other. That yields artificial virtual reality. But if you want more clarity and focus, have more space from all walls, and place the speakers closer to each other. There will be less stereo separation but more focused realistic image size. |
thanks Faxer. i agree with what is said on that article and wish i could hear those speakers in my room with my xs300s. On a different note, about one hour ago i plugged in the Shunyata Denali 6000t in my system and proceeded to connect the Ref 6 and Esoteric K1 dac to it using Nordost Odin 1 powercords on both components and what i have learned is indeed incredible. I will keep it short and brief, but basically my focal scala evos taught me a big lesson today which is that IF my power is dirty or corrupted in any shape or form then their tweeter will not be as refined as i need it to be. I just drove myself crazy for the past 7 days trying to dial in the tweeter of this speaker and as soon as i used the Shunyata Denali, the soundstage got HUGE, the bass tighter, the clarity improved tremendously and the noise floor is beyond low. i am now able to hear my XS300S to the fullest and to ear-shattering levels with no fatigue. I am beyond floored at the improvement this made in my system, but it is also a lesson learned for me that the higher up the ladder you go in this hobby, the more attention to detail you need in order to hear EVERYTHING you are putting in it. I wish some of you could hear what i am hearing here because i am telling you that it is INCREDIBLE. The room was pressurized and incredibly loud with the most pleasant sound i have heard with these speakers. i am in disbelief to say the least. Mind you, i am "only" using a ref 6 preamp with these amps and i am floored so i can only imagine what will happen once i go with the xs preamp, solution 720, constellation altair 2? who knows guys, but what a huge improvement. My head is literally spinning from the loudness i was listening at but never felt any fatigue at all through the entire session. I will be VERY HONEST, i was even having my doubts about these amps even though i have only had them for 4 days, but i guess now i know WHAT they have been trying to tell me over the past few days when i felt like something was "missing" and i couldn’t put my finger on it. I realize that the noise i had coming in was also being put in front of me for my ears to hear and yet i couldn’t realize that this was the issue. The funny thing about these amps is that even though they are voiced to sound a certain way, they STILL are crazy transparent to the rest of your equipment and your power sources. |
WC, I am sorry for bringing this up, but now that you are agreeing, the Neo’s were way too large for your 1st room ( as I stated from the start ), when you received them, I have a question. Sure, it was still possible to perceive differences between one piece, vs. another. However, I feel most of the equipment you reviewed, was hampered, due to the improper room / speaker interactions, especially anything having to do with " imaging and sound staging ", which was, and still is, an extremely important criteria to you. Basically, if the Neo’s were in a proper sized room, your results on ALL that you reviewed, might have been different. I needed to say this, because I learned years and years ago, how crucial the speaker / room interface was, to a successful and well put together system. I am actually surprised at how long you had them. Glad you figured it out. Yes, this is the past......Again, sorry, let’s move on. |
WC, Now put the Merrill Christine + 118 or the Christine + XS300 on the Denali and see what you are now deficient in--MORE of the same improvements you just noted, "the bass tighter, the clarity improved tremendously." This has been my experience with the original Denali, but its effects may have worn off, or I am used to them, I don't know. Do you still have the original Denali to compare to the new version? |
If you all are wondering what to build next and want to never worry about whether an amp will work or if it will be enough to drive your next speaker or if it’s a match or not etc ... Grab a pair of pass labs xs300 and TRUST ME it can easily be the last amp you own for at least the next 5-10 years. This is going to be shocking news for A LOT OF YOU but I am announcing that the pass labs xs300 , today, with my current set of components, is THE BEST POWER AMPLIFIER i have ever owned and based on the spreadsheet I keep, it is amplifier # 400. I don’t know if there’s something better or not but if it exists then I haven’t owned it. Yes it runs hot, yes your electric bill will go up, yes it takes up a lot of space and you can squash your fingers with it or crack your head open if you trip and fall over it but what the hell.. no amplifier is perfect and to me this is as perfect as it gets. Pass labs xs300 = #1 on my list of amplifiers |
Given my track record, your statement above makes total sense. That said, i have already "pretended" to sell these amps and i find myself asking the following question: where do i go from here? This is the same question i have been asked by dealer friends, acquaintances , etc. The truth is that i wouldn’t know where to go from where. I have my doubts that other amplifiers can come in here and beat these amps, but rather just present things differently. i love what these amps do and how they serve "food on my plate". That said, i HAVE NEVER heard another pass labs sound this full bodied, nuanced and with the large sense of space that these are giving me. However, this does not mean i won’t bring more amps (the show must go on), but those future purchases will be measured against these amps and although it will be an unfair thing to do (unless those future amps are in the same ballpark price wise) , it will be a nice opportunity to see how far new amplifiers have come. Keep in mind, these xs300 amps were released back in 2013 and are still manufactured. Speaking to pass labs yesterday was very interesting because they said there is zero plans to replace these xs300s because they spent close to a million dollars designing the xs300s. It is extremely hard to go back to the drawing board and do this all over again when only 6 years have passed in which not much has changed in terms of amplifier (class a specifically ) technology. does anyone want to send in their amp to be measured against these xs300s ? i would be more than happy to give you a pure, unbiased opinion on your current amplification :) |
I am studying all the threads on Perfect Path Technologies, whose products ricevs recommends as mind blowing. The Omega E mat at $900 for two, according to 1 user, made his usually duller tube amp snap to attention and equal the speed of his SS amp. The flagship product, The Gate, at $5000 needs to be installed/wired into your fuse box. Without the needed technical info, they can't get UL certification, so for safety reasons it is problematic for me. But the other products which are noninvasive ought to be tried. This should probably be your next move, no matter what other components you use. |
I hear and understand you whitecamaross. I’m really not trying to insult you as I do appreciate your journey and my vicarious enjoyment of same. I will say that I think that maybe, for the first time you have a room even remotely worthy of further equipment analysis. I think if you were to revisit past equipment your opinions might even be quite different based upon the current room context. But at the end of the day, you journey does seem to mirror my own and we all live in he real world. Keep on listening! |
Not really. I've had amplifiers that barely let you hear a difference when you make changes. I've also had components where I don't really hear any difference by using expensive powercords. The biggest changes occur when your equipment is at a high level. I remember trying a nordost odin 1 on a cheap Sony integrated and it didn't make any difference at all. Zero changes in sound. |
The ref6 is gone. I am now simply using the McIntosh mc2600 as a back up preamp while I begin to find a preamp that I feel would elevate what the ref 6 was doing. My options could be : Boulder 2010 Ref10 Constellation virgo 3 Soulution 720 or 725 Dan progression preamp All those above are potential preamps but nothing has been decided upon. The boulder 2010 is probably the one that really really has my attention and is my number 1 choice but we shall see if the deal goes through. I can say that my xs300s are pretty much speaking to me in regards to my front end and I need to elevate my preamplifier and potentially even go up the ladder in terms of my source. |
I have established quite an extensive network with many dealers that I constantly do business with. Sometimes I may occasionally buy here but 80 percent of what I buy is not done here or through any website. Some dealers can't list items here because they cant afford to lose a line but they still need product off their floor. There's a HUUUUUGE amount of product sitting on the floor that can't be advertised and that is essentially what I end up buying and reviewing. In regards to the xs300s, yes there has only been 2 pairs listed in the last 6 years so this isn't an amp that shows up on the used market. Hell, I already have offers on the table for this amp ever since I posted pictures and I haven't listed anything nor did I say I want to sell it. I had a buddy call Reno hifi and ask their price on these amps and they said $65,000 for a demo pair and they only have one pair which they can't list because pass labs won't allow ANY listings of their xs 300. |
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Its been a long time since I’ve heard the 250.8 but i recall it being musical and smooth. As far as how close to the xs300? I think that’s really not a fair comparison because they are just 2 different extremes in terms of price and parts/design. The x series is more of the competition to its sibling the xa series and not the xs. The x series has better bass than the xa series but it doesn’t best the highs of the xa series. The xs series has everything that both models do good but on steroids. The xs series sounds very different but as I stated before, the xs design isn’t the design for the person who’s concerned with heat or with the electric bill. This amp will hand you a "bill" at the end of the month for its service. The 250.8 is great but I would say the simaudio 860a is probably what id choose at this price point, but that’s my opinion. |
A’phile friend of mine brought over some of the inexpensive Ching Cheng pc’s tonight. We listened to them against a number of other pc’s --from Zen Wave, Black Cat, Synergistic, Cardas, Nordost and Audience. Interestingly...the Ching Chengs were basically junk in my system. Resolution dropped like a stone, frequency extension was non-existent, imaging diffuse, plus it was quite obvious that these inexpensive cables were no different than the stock ones supplied by all manufacturers' to at least give you the ability to hook up power! My friend left the Ching Chengs with me...to throw into the bin. Even the entry level Cardas cables had it all over them..Moral of the story, at least in this case, is you get what you pay for. |
@whitecamaross How about trying these . They might compete. https://www.listeningpost.co.nz/Products/Amplifiers/Power-Amplifiers/Stereo-Mono-Power-Amplifiers/McIntosh-MC2KW-2000-Watt-Monoblock-Power-Amp-__I.17781__C.27297__N.27756 |
Just thought I would congratulate whitecamaross for sharing his listening impressions as well as the thousands of hours and dollars spent on all of this impressive hardware. I myself have experienced most of the gear you have mentioned but have not taken the time to share comments on each and every one of them the way you have to this group. My hat is off too you for hanging in there and reporting your findings to others so that they can better zero in on there next piece of audio equipment. Cheers! |
Ok, whitecamross lets get back to business! Regarding the XS300 monos require massive amounts of instantaneous AC power to operate as they were designed. I have read that the Atmosphere Level 3 High Current Power Cables feature UEF and Graphene treated 10-gauge conductors, built-in UEF Inductive Filters. And this is what a particular reviewer said about them. This power cord will make your speakers vanish – and gives you the impression of floating, tangible objects. It’s uncanny in the way it shapes out the porous details and textural cues. It’s weird to say, but you could almost visualize the skin and facial muscles. There are also no gaps or imperfections in how instruments and vocals are present. Who should buy this cable? If you’re looking for more tangible envelopment – this cable acts like a pair of Virtual Reality goggles for your ears. TradeoffsIf an uncolored sound works for you, not much to nitpick here. It’s cooler rather than warmblooded.NotesNeutral, crystaline, resolving, holographic, solid, dynamic, effortless, glossy, alive, transparent, detailed. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9hif8-synergistic-research-atmosphere-uef-level-3-power-cord-ac-cables?refsource=hifishark Thought you might want to take a look! Enjoy ;) . |
This was another review from Mr. Shook from Part Time Audiophile- where he Indicates that the Pass XS 150 amplifiers brought the level of the GT Audio Works speakers to best of sound status at Capital Audiofest 2019. This review came after he left the million dollar van Schweikert VAC room. https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/11/06/gt-audio-works-showstopping-sound-along-with-basis-my-soni... |
WCSS, The GTAW room at CAF was 4 times bigger than AXPONA and the system was incredible. The GTA 3Rs were wildly dynamic, had a soundstage that began 4' behind the plane of the speakers and went back 30', voices were in the room real, decays lasted a long time, bass was perfectly blended without drawing attention but room crushing when demanded, and the system was emotionally engaging drawing me into performances easily. They would work in your new listening room so please keep them in mind when you go speaker searching again. You are so right about the Pass XS amps, leaps beyond other Pass lines, truly extraordinary! Please consider Vinnie Rossi's L2 SE Direct heated triode preamp in your preamp search, it is a special piece of kit. Text me if you're interested in trying one and I'll see if I can help make it happen. |
Thanks for the props blumartini. I try to be as objective as possible with this hobby but it isn't easy at times because you can rub people off the wrong way at times. One side of me wants to be as raw as possible with everything i've owned but it isn't as easy as it seems. There are only a handful of people whose ears I trust just like only handful of you trust mine. Today I spoke to someone who contributes to my thread and who wanted my honest advice without being biased. I essentially recommended him luxman 900u amp and preamp which I'm sure he will enjoy. It is very satisfying to me to steer people into equipment that I feel is enjoyable and a pleasure to listen to and that they can enjoy for quite sometime which is something I clearly don't do. That said, 2019 is almost over and I am thankful that this year brought me my own dedicated room. What do I see for my system in 2020? I see quite a few changes which I will keep a secret for now. If you are wondering whether I'll go back up the ladder in terms of speakers north of $50,000, I probably won't go there again. It's a tough speaker world when it comes to the heavy hitters and quite frankly i have to sell these at some point in order to finance my next move but guess what ? It is very hard to do so. I'm just a regular guy and dealers will always have the upper hand in selling items at high price points because they can finance , take a credit card , take trades , etc etc and they deserve to have it. this has pretty much made me hit the brakes and focus on items that are a little more "normal" in terms of price. More to come on this topic. |
@whitecamaross
Totally understood that we can't please everyone and yes you will always have a "Wise Guy" that wants to rain on your parade. Thank you again for your many contribution's through your audio journey and for making the time to help all who read your threads be more informed. Regards, BluMartini |
WC, Even if you paid retail for GTA speakers, they are better in every way than any speaker you have ever owned, and offer great value. I was impressed by the version I heard at Steve's home in Massapequa years ago, and the current version is supposedly better. To save money, you could just get the basic speaker without the subwoofers. The basic speaker goes down to 40 Hz. You could judge the basic speaker on its own and add the sub if the basic speaker will be a keeper. Your small room will produce adequate bass from the basic speaker. At the VPI house this weekend I will hear the MC Audiotech speakers. Harry Weisfeld very soon promises me a private session with new towers of the 105 dB efficient AMT drivers. These were at CAF, but I don't know the name. They will be about $10K. How does the new Shunyata Denali compare with the original, if you still have it? |
Greetings to all on this thread that are here to get educated on whats out there in Audio, I have started a thread called "Power Cords and there “Real” Price to Performance” For all of you interested it is mt pleasure to invite you! After reading Jay Luong of Audio Bacon;s Review of 27 Best Audiophile Power Cords I must say that I was Impressed! Jay spent several months reviewing each and everyone of them in depth. I must say this guy is the "Navy Seal of Reviewers" !!! I thought it would be exciting if he would join us so I invited him along with all the companies he reviewed to join us. I don't know if they all will but I am positive most wouldn't want to chime in :) The Invite List: Jay Luong Author of Audio Bacon Website Gutwire Kimber Kable Morrow Audio Neotech Nordost Requisite Audio Snake River Straight Wire Triode Wire Labs TriPoint Audio WireWorld |
That is the best room correction out there .I am too lazy to research the McIntosh mx160 but I was looking into the Mac men220 last week, https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/specialty-products/MEN220 which may have the same Room Perfect engine as the mx160 discussed here. My research tells me that the men220 is a very old engine and limited to 96hz. The Lyngdorf 3400 and 2170 do the Room Perfect using an engine capable of 192hz. Posts here on A'gon state that the higher sampling Room Perfect is better. I eliminated the men220 from consideration due to this. I will demo the Lyndorf 2170 (Room Perfect) and the Antherm STR Pre (with Arc3) for my small room. Local dealer has both including a Linn Selekt DSM (Space Optimization) but I discounted the Linn because they are wishy-washy with ROON. |
