jetter,
I also posted some to you. What reference amp are you using?
I also posted some to you. What reference amp are you using?
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
WC, The ML 13a demo sounds great even on my lousy iMac speakers. Even though the music on the Avantgarde horns is different, I think I can still tell that the ML system has the best clarity. Your Block amp is probably just as good as the Constellation, so it is very likely that the 13a has greater clarity than the Neo, with proper spatiality that isn't artificially inflated like the Neo. Let's see how the Rowland 535 sounds. |
faxer, Thanks for your info. As dasign notes, a high pass filter is used for the tweeter. It is likely that a low pass filter cuts HF from the planar driver, otherwise the planar is quite capable of putting out significant HF. Any way you put it, there are filters aka crossovers in the design. Also, Wisdom Audio uses ribbons down to about 300 Hz in many models. With Alsyvox, the midrange ribbon is wider than the super tweeter ribbon, at 15 mm and 5 mm, respectively. Of course, you need quality powerful magnets to control the motion of the ribbons. Using the same reasoning of Greg, the GT planar driver is being asked to go down to about 40 Hz. The question is, does the 10 inch wide GT driver feel as much stress going down to 40 Hz with the huge excursions in the lower freq, versus the Alsyvox 15 mm (0.6 in) going down to only 850 Hz with the much smaller excursions at that freq? My physics and math may not be correct, but to get the same energy at 40 Hz compared to 850 Hz requires 20 times the excursion. Note how the 10 inch wide GT planar driver is about 20 times the width of the Alsyvox midrange ribbon. So I think that the stresses on the Alsyvox ribbon are comparable to that on the GT planar driver. At moderate/low SPL, the range of 850 to 6000 Hz is possibly more accurate and faster from the Alsyvox ribbon vs the GT more massive planar magnetic. Also, since the ear is much more sensitive at 850 to 6000 Hz compared to below 100 Hz, bass that sounds loud will have MUCH MUCH greater excursions required, which puts more stress on the GT planar driver at low freq. alexbpm and gwalt, Your listening observations have inspired me. You probably are enjoying wonderful clarity and dynamics from your Alsyvox. What do you think of this discussion? |
viber, you are missing the bigger picture. WC is trying out tons of gear, based on what he wants to try, based on his hunches of what will sound good, forgetting specs, reviews, and each piece of equipment's architecture, not to mention price. It is his desire and ability to jump into the fray and report his experiences which makes this thread unique and really fun. We are living vicariously through him . Your the opposite, in every post you grind equipment's specifications into us, you lecture us on what music sounds like, where to sit at a concert. You tell us how big the image is suppose to be, how big the speakers should be, how we should listen to and test our equipment. Your real message is to follow the viber way or you are lost. You aren't the least bit concerned that you have crashed someone else's thread. If you didn't make so many posts on someone else's thread it wouldn't seem so out of place. But as I mentioned above, you make a post for every two and a half WC posts. I apologize for bringing this up, but you ignore these anyway. |
jetter--you are missing the even bigger goal, which is to maximize learning and shared experiences from anyone here. Why don't you just contribute useful info, rather than wasting verbiage on whose thread this is. I'm sure WC and others learn a lot from me, as I do from them. I stimulate discussion which does help to keep this thread alive which has more posts than any other thread, as long as you are interested in numbers. |
In response to Viber6 comments- the main midrange panel utilizes a proprietary membrane that is impervious to any type of stress or breakup even down to 40hz- Greg has been testing these membranes for years and the panels were measured at Axpona at over 110db with no strain- White Camarro SS was in our room 3 times and can attest to the fact That we were playing the system at rock concert levels and it was effortless - you can’t do that with any other type membrane.Very expensive neodymium magnets are used in the panel versus ceramic magnets. NEOS produce a much greater magnetic field which results in a more efficient driver and in general sounds better than ceramic magnets. |
faxer, Thanks. For the R&D that Greg put in, the GT is a fair price. I wonder if the same can be said about Alsyvox. Much of the retail price of any speaker or even any finished product reflects the long process of R&D. Maybe the cost of materials in the Alsyvox is greater than that of GT, but regardless of the relative sound qualities of the Alsyvox and GT, I still feel that the Alsyvox is overpriced and must come down. Even if the Alsyvox smaller models (still pretty large) smoke the 1/4 million dollar funeral caskets for sound quality, the present prices cannot be justified. The marketer who spoke to closenplay hinted that the prices would come down, hopefully. |
Assuming that the pair of Rowland M535 bridgable amps that WC will receive are not fully broken in, they won't yield their best until they are fully broken in... I found in my own system that some 700 hours are required. Furthermore, for best results in bridged mode, WC should source a pair of the new slip-on capacitors for the output terminals from the Rowland factory... IMO they yield a marked enhancement to what is already the considerable clarity of M535. The units that WC will receive should have a printed manual in each carton... WC, if they do not, let me know, and I will send you an electronic copy. In particular, the manual will show the position of the stereo/bridged toggle to be used for bridged operation, as well as which of the three XLR input connectors to used in bridged mode.... M535 has no RCA inputs. For historical reasons, what the manual does not mention is the use of the slip-on capacitors for the Cardas output terminals... I'll be happy to send WC some instructions on how best to mount them... And just in case anyone were wondering, the thingies are ONLY for bridged ops, and must never be used in stereo mode. Saluti, G.
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I doubt very much that the GT room was hitting levels at or above 110 db. I do not doubt the GT speakers can play at 110 db, but my experience at shows, both as an exhibitor and as a visitor, is that the hotel management did not allow volume levels to reach that high by the exhibitors in their respective rooms. Plus, the audiophiles I have known throughout my career, tells me that many people would not stay in a room when music was playing at that level. And, with those tube amps ( the 2nd one ) ? I believe faxer is exaggerating, even if wc comes on here and says the system " did " in fact play at that high a level. I would expect a measurement using an spl meter to have been taken, and documented, for this to be true. Not to mention, an exhibitor that will play a system at this level would be putting many people in harms way for hearing damage, because 1 minute of exposure to 110 db can do damage, especially at close range. BS |
Thank you jetter I have been on Audiogon for 15 years and have found WC's thread to be one of the best and most informative in many years. That has changed since the good doctor rode into town on his medicine wagon standing on his soapbox to preach to all us infidels that we are on the wrong path. Oh I did not mean auditory who is cut from the same cloth. Thus he speaks... hear me lost souls and I will show you the path to audio nirvana for I am the enlightened one and know the only true path, it is my way and all else is wrong. Clarity reigns supreme at the expense of all, anything else or you delude yourself...follow my path and I will show you how to make your ears bleed. This thread was to document one man's journey into finding what he liked which he has faithfully and honestly reported to us readers and has been greatly appreciated. The good doctor has chosen to interject at every possibility posting more often than the OP to interject his viewpoint which frankly has gotten stale and tiresome. Frankly I believe it the time to start your own thread and heed your promise once made to vacate this one. My apologies to WCSS I have greatly appreciated your journey and have learned much from your honesty and views, I wish you the best in your continuing endeavor. |
All- i am going to regain control of this thread. I’ve messaged viber privately just now expressing my feelings/thoughts and wishes. That said, I want for everyone to be respectful and stay focused with what we are all trying to do here. No more bashing or being disrespectful to anyone. The goal of this thread is to read my thoughts, feelings on all sorts of gear and you take that information and either apply it to your current set up or disregard it (which is fine) Everyone should be able to come in here, read while sipping on a drink, give proper input while staying on topic and enjoy. Thanks everyone |
viber, resonance and vibrational issues are definitely some of the greatest weaknesses of stock Klipsch Heritage speakers, and yes, imo, even the newest generations. Two of my buddies who were at AXPONA, stopped by the Volti room, and left, feeling my system was far superior to what they heard. This is the unfortunate case of setting up high end systems, in hotel rooms, in a very little amount of time. They were both " excited " by the Avantgarde 60 K horns. Are the Volti Vittora and sub package, which are 7 times the cost of what I have into my Lascalas ( my labor not calculated into the equation ), 7 times better ? No way, but imo, they are better, and the diminishing returns thing appears here, as so much else in audio system building. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Hi, yes I am staying with them. I loved that 13a constellation room and unless someone was serious about buying the Neolith from at a price that made sense, I don’t think I will part ways with them. They are special speakers in many ways and you just don’t see them at shows all the time or in people’s homes. The show taught me a couple of tricks which are expensive but they might pay huge dividends. I’m just right now in talks with different parties about my next purchase and my current amplifier set up. As you all might know, I love my block audio amps and I have to think hard and deep as to whether I want to replace them with something potentially more expensive or to just stick with what I have. At this level, any move I make to try something that I think might be better or different means it will be big money. We could be talking about amps that are close the 100k price point. This is why I need to sit, think, analyze and then decide to stay put or move forward. As far as the Roland 535, I’ve spent 3 days with it and I have my preliminary impressions. I will say that it is indeed something that is a big price/performance ratio. Stay tuned. |
FROM audiophliestyle.com They awarded this room the Best In Show at Axpona This is the room that WCSS liked best too. I would like to know Which Cardas Cables they were using . Does anyone know ? |
WC, It was valuable for you to hear the excellent ML 13a/Constellation system to see that top performance can be had for a reasonable amount of money. Now come the Rowland 535's for value. Also, tell us the relative sonic personalities of the Rowland vs Plinius, another great value. "It ain't necessarily so" that big bucks are needed to improve on what you already have. |
Im heading out to dinner with the wife but upon my return, on I will be unpacking the fully balanced, Lampizator pacific with 242 KR tubes. I’m nervous because I have so much hope riding on this Dac (not to mention money). I am sending the nordost Odin 1 speaker cables to get reterminated with spades because Rowland amps don’t take banana plugs so they will be gone for about a week or two. In the meantime I will be evaluating the wireworld platinum 8 speaker cable. It is going to be super busy over the next couple of weeks :) |
Oh my, why not use some top quality banana to spade adaptors? I know, I know, the purists will say NO. But, do you really think you would hear that extra connection? It would save you some serious re-termination cost and the two weeks wait. Then if you really like the Rowlands, consider re-termination then. But you could get 2 pairs of adaptors from any number of sources in a day or two for $100 or so.. And banana connections are so much easier to deal with. Just a couple examples: www.dedicatedaudio.com/products/cardas-bts-banana-to-spade-adapter-9mm-5-16-spade-set-of-4 https://shop.transparentcable.com/shop/analog-audio/audio-cable-adapters/speaker-cable-adapters/ |
Regarding the suggested banana to spade adapters, I can confirm from first hand experience that the Cardas adapters linked to above from Dedicated Audio work perfectly with the Cardas speaker terminations used on Rowland amps. The spades are a perfect fit for the Cardas binding posts and the bananas mount very securely into the adapters. |
In response to Mrdecibel’s accusations that I am lying about the 110 dB all I can say is that the measurement was taken by an attendee after show hours with his own spl meter. In fact I saw Whitecammarro SS measure the spl’s with the app on his phone because he was curious himself about how loud we were playing as we cranked up Iggy Azzalae, Marcus Miller and Robin Thicke at concert level volumes. You are more than welcome to confirm this with white Camaro SS. |
Faxer, you need to read my post again. I indicated that I did not doubt the speakers can play at levels at or above 110 db, just not happening at a show, " during " show hours. Attendee, after show hours, taking measurements with a real spl meter ? And, you were not able to see the measurement, but assumed it was 110 db. Sounds suspicious. Big difference between 100 db and 110 db. Are you sure about that 110 db level ? The math does not add up, given the amp used. Lie, exaggeration, whatever ? At least you are forthright, finally, that you are the GT dealer, unlike earlier in your time here on the ’Gon. WC, I am sorry, but I am not a fan of faxer, as I know he treated you well. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Faxer = concert level volumes. WC = not at low volume. I know what a system playing at 110 db sounds like, using professional measurements, and understand speaker efficiency, sensitivity, impedance, and wpc from amplification, and I question the validity of the claim. I will move on from this subject. |
Live classical music concerts at a close seat have satisfying loudness with general volume levels averaging 20-90 dB almost all the time. At rare moments for only certain pieces of music, you get 100 dB peaks. Extremely rare are 110 dB peaks. When there is clarity with natural tonality, these are satisfying levels. 90 dB is plenty loud. Sustained volumes above 90 dB cause hearing damage. Look at OSHA standards for hearing protection. I have seen a few men in their 20's with hearing damage from playing in rock bands as a teenager. |
viber +1. 110 db can cause permanent hearing damage after 1 minute of exposure. Rock concerts, with the many speakers and mega watt amplifiers around, and specifically indoor, are the worst. Many months ago,your buddy faxer came on here ( other threads, too ), pretending to be a purchasing customer of the GT speakers, before we found out he was a dealer. Of course, he praised them, like no other. If he announced, like a man, he was the dealer for them, I would not have a problem with him, but I will never trust a guy like that. Sorry......again, I am moving on...…..as far as my hearing, I am very careful with listening levels, but as my screen name implies, I do like some decibels on occasion. Traveling the NYC subways for many years, wearing ear protection on the platforms. The squealing of the trains coming to a stop, were horrible. I understand other railways, such as in Japan, are very quiet. The trams at Disney are quiet. Always, Enjoy ! MrD. |
Yes, rock concerts are loud... but rock concerts are fun. I've been to over 100 in my life, only 2x did I think it was too loud. 1. AC/DC, but I was literally in front of the house monitors. It was a great show though. 2. A small metal show in a small club with a few bands. It was absurd to the point of not being enjoyable. The music wasn't great either. But, it's all part of the fun. That said, there is a perfect level of mix that sometimes gets achieved with good sound (for a concert), just on the border of being too loud but it's not, but you can still really feel the music in your chest and pantlegs. That's living. |
I played in rock bands for years and have attended 100's of LOUD concerts. Around 15 years ago I developed tinnitus and hyperacusis in my left ear. I still of course listen to music daily just at low levels. Loud concerts are now out of the question and even small acoustic venues require me to use ear protection. That's living. |
Great guesses everyone. Stay tuned! Ron17, i also have a slight tinnitus in my right ear from listening to headphones too loud at the gym, but i don't do that anymore.I also noticed that alcohol makes it worse at times. However, i am fortunate enough to still hear pretty well and detect things quickly when something is not sounding right. Constellation Centaur 2 monos? Gryphon Mephisto? Dag M400s? we will see, but right now nothing is concrete. |
WCSS, Will you be using the Roland amps or the Block audio amps to test out the Lampizator w/XLR? It wouldn't also hurt to test out the AR REF 10 preamp in the chain as well. I'm very excited to hear about the Lampizator w/XLR. There should be an improvement in the "body and weight" of the sound over SE outputs. Sounds like a great match for the Neoliths. |
Hi guys, so the deal is done and I will be taking delivery of the almighty constellation centaur 2 monoblocks ($80k) plus the matching constellation Virgo 3 preamp ($32k) next week. I have also found a new home for my block audios. Guess what? The person who bought my block audios also owns the Rowland 925s so I’m super excited to hear his impressions of both amps. I’ll be sure to keep in touch with him so I can get the inside scoop ! |
Wow, great move especially getting both the Constellation pre and power amps. Your friend can give us his feelings about the Blocks vs his 925s, you can compare the Blocks to Centaur IIs. You will also have to compare the Ref 10, Virgo 3, and Lampi by itself and into those 2 preamps, lots of work, but somebody has to do it! Good luck, have fun and let us know your impressions. |