Good post Jay. A while back I ordered a 2 pack of Owens Corning Acoustic panels (24"x48") which are also paintable. I use one in front of my TV and one for first reflection (side). Made a big difference in soundstage, focus and clarity, especially on vocal detail.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
So i had a conversation with Alon Wolf about the M6. Long story short, he said to me that i need to do a couple of treatments to my room such as an area rug, cover my equipment between my speakers and perhaps think about doing something with my screen. Of course, i am set in my own ways and i was somewhat reluctant to embark on all of this. That said, he left me with those thoughts in my head during which i was very confrontational with myself. I was going through the typical " nah, i am not doing all that work, hell no", etc, etc. Then last night, i was listening to music again and so i turned my head to the left and i had a few towels sitting there which i primarily use to protect equipment. Anyhow, I proceeded to simply cover both dacs, the essence monos, pandora preamp and the marantz processor you see on my rack. I sat back down and continued my listening session only to be with my eyes wide open and in disbelief with what i heard. I heard less "glassiness", less bite, and a smoother tonality. The vocals were now more articulated and dead center better than ever before. Again, all i did was throw towels on top of my equipment and nothing else. This has been an eye-opener for me and now i am going to be embarking on more serious treatments for my room. Take this advice and apply it. If you have a tv in the middle (ron17 lol) please cover it with something. If you have any surface that sits between your speakers, grab some blankets and just cover it all. Try it and listen. You have nothing to lose with doing this and it is cheap to try it. Of course, this is going to be more significant with some systems than others, but i am telling you IT DOES make a difference. Now i am beginning to search for acoustic curtains to hang right in front of my screen so i can open them and close them at the push of a button. If anyone here has experience with acoustic curtains and the different kinds to consider, please shoot me a me PM . Thank you all |
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Second review of m6 came out today. Grab your drink and read and give me your thoughts https://www.magico.net/images/Reviews/M6/HIFI%2B_0521_195_Magico_LR.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1c-KZzUQr9uM3g5BG... |
You should refrain from name calling first - that is disrespectful and not nice. I have refuted everything you’ve said. You represent a minority fringe view that WC and most audiophiles reject because it is unacceptable to most to have to only listen quietly, without the ability to play loud lest ear fatigue setting in due to system deficiency. No wonder you prefer violin music, because nobody would want to play that loud anyway. No offense to my violin playing friends (but tbh each time I had to sit thru one of their recitals I was bored to death - too bad smartphones weren’t yet invented by then so I could have discretely tuned out like all the folks in the restaurant analogy subjected to violin) |
Totally irrelevant and disrespectful comment that dodges the important issues raised not only by me, but Jay as well. Maybe you think it is word salad because you don't understand it or can't logically refute it. How do you know that there aren't plenty of people reading my posts, but don't bother to comment on this thread because they are turned off by disrespectful groupies here? |
ron17, Wouldn't you get a greater charge if Donna Summer had more nuances in her voice and manner that you could see, hear, smell and feel? The importance of greater fidelity and clarity is obvious, no matter what the type of sensory input. Upfront is better than laidback (puns in there). Since you play guitar, let her more sensitively pull on your heart strings. |
kren0006, It appears that your preference is being a groupie aligned with what you think the politically correct Room thinks. Do you care to learn much about live natural sound as the standard of reference to strive for? I believe Jay is asking good questions about live sound, and I am trying to help. Who needs your disparaging remarks? The subject of this thread is amplifiers, although the discussion naturally extends into other components. People who like all kinds of music read this thread. Most are not interested in personalities and being loved as groupies--they just want to learn the experiences of others in trying various components. Over the last 4 years I have participated, I have seen many insightful people leave quickly when they perceive that there are too many groupies and not enough objective analysis and discussion. I imagine there is a rare someone who doesn’t listen to any music, but wants to build an accurate, fine system to mimic the sounds of nature in his home, weird as that might seem. He loves nature just as much as I love violin music, and I respect him for it. He is more knowledgeable than I about various bird calls. I would welcome his opinion about how an audio component might be more accurate than another in reproducing bird calls. If he has good ears and listening skills, the chances are that we would agree that a certain component is more accurate and lifelike, whether the source material is bird calls or any genre of unamplified natural music. The subtle sound of crunching leaves as you step on them is similar enough to some musical instruments or even the processed sound effects in pop/electronic recordings. These examples show that understanding common features of sound benefits everyone. The opposite approach of saying any arbitrary artificial sound is just as valid as another, doesn’t get anywhere in the quest to find out the differences between components or achieving the delightful moments when Jay and others say, "it sounds real." Those people keep trying different components at random, going in circles because they don’t know or even care what reality sounds like. |
Actually, according to WC, I am not missing the point at all. His first response to my post was - "No argument from [WC]." And others (ron17 publicly, dm’s i got) chimed in with support as well. You try to steer it back to your view of the world, but then get kindly told to take it off line (by yysantabarbara in this case; by WC countless other times throughout thread history). We all know your preferences (clarity only thing that matters even if ear-splitting brightness, zero or minimal bass okay, no problem if can’t play above 65 db without listening fatigue or hurting ears), and that’s fine if that is what you like. But it is a fringe minority view that doesn’t align with WC’s ("no argument from [WC]") or most audiophiles’, so it gets tiresome to keep re-reading about it when you keep pushing it endlessly. This isn’t an attack, it’s a "Read the Room" suggestion. I know some really like when I go after you (they tell me that), but I don’t enjoy doing it, so it’s just a gentle suggestion. |
kren0006, You are missing the point. Jay listens loud sometimes, but you notice that most of his recordings are presented in his room at 82 dB average. He and I agree that for critical evaluation of components, it is best to listen at modest levels. Jay also has interest in what live sound is. Often he gets excited and says that something sounds "real." Everyone benefits from knowledge of what real sound is. My prime interest is the sound of violins, but I learn from exposure to sounds of live guitars, trumpets, cymbals, triangles, which all have commonality in regard to HF content and other tonal characteristics. I have enjoyed some of the recordings that Jay has presented. Even if they are processed to some extent, those guitar, percussion, voices all have enough similarity to live unamplified versions of these instruments to make reasonable assessments of whether a system is trying to capture the clarity of the real thing, or a fake impressionist blurry version. Everyone has exposure to sounds of nature and sports like baseball, basketball, golf. So even if someone had no familiarity with any music, he could compare these live nonmusical environmental sounds with these sounds from an audio system. He would then have a basis for judging the fidelity of a system. Some people don't care much about clarity or fidelity, and just want to bang out sound that pleases them, as with other sensory experiences like food, drink, love making, etc. If that applies, then the novice with a low quality system like a phone or boombox has just as valid a preference as an audiophile who wants to reproduce music as truthfully as possible in order to fully appreciate it. Then there isn't much point in discussing quality components if low fi is just as valid as hifi. |
WC has played many songs on his YT channel. Not one has been “unamplified.” Neither has he played clips of horns honking, baseball bats or golf clubs impacting, or construction noise. Apparently those things aren’t what he likes to listen to - imagine that? Guess what? He’s in the vast majority. Systems that cannot play real music at realisticly loud levels have no place in WC’s room, and therefore by extension have no place on this thread—-on another thread, give it a shot and see how many tune in. good job yy. Your last thought about doubting that anyone would care about that tired line of argument was bang on, I suspect. Even if one or two are interested, they are likely aware enough by now that this thread is not the place for it, because WC has no interest in that style of music, as he’s repeatedly explained. He listens loud. He doesn’t listen to violins |
Hmm... Tonight was an eye opener.. If i use the w20se, i get tremendous detail and clarity along with resolution but it is a tad bright if i crank things up. However, if i use the aurender acs10, i lose all the attributes of the w20se but things are more relaxed and warm sounding. No issues cranking the volume at all. More to come on this subject. |
yyz, From your comments, it seems you like the additional gain from the HPA4 preamp. Electronic gain is always associated with loss of subtle detail and purity, but some people prioritize dynamics and fullness. To me, the holy grail is perfect transparency WITH gain to get the dynamics. No product has achieved this holy grail. Sadly, it seems like Benchmark electronics still suffer from the tradeoff of transparency vs dynamics/fullness. I wasn't going to discuss the quality of the Benchmark DAC 1, but just mentioned it because it has a gain stage and a volume control, which I assume has similar character to the LA4 or HPA4 gain stages. |
Jay, Good that you are asking questions about live vs recorded music. I wonder how much live music you have heard which is unamplified and unprocessed. If you don't have that much of this live experience, what we all have is experiences with sounds of nature--wind, birds, construction noise. As children, we played handball, baseball, basketball. Now as an audiophile, I am surprised at the impact of the baseball bat or even the softer catcher's mit. It wasn't until almost 10 years ago when I first heard the crack of a golf swing. I couldn't believe how much more snap it had than watching golf on TV. Every day in the congested streets near work, I hear honking horns from cars and trucks. At all freq, the sounds are crisp. They may be very loud which takes me aback, but I want to duplicate the truth of these live sounds in my audio system. To prevent pain, I keep the volume modest. But I am NOT satisfied with loud, blurry sound from most audio systems with euphonic components. This doesn't serve my music, which is very complex and requires concentration to appreciate all its detail. Pieces that I thought I knew 60 years ago are now better revealed with my ever-improving system, and there is still more music appreciation yet to be perceived. |
I haven’t used a laptop in ages. I was using the Rossini as a stand alone streamer/dac. I also purchased the aurender acs10 which i haven’t unpacked. Yes, my music server has been the w20se since i got the MSB Reference Dac. I also communicated with MSB to see which connection sounds best and I'm waiting on their response. Remember, i am also using synergistic Research Galileo SX ethernet cable and shunyata omega usb to connect the msb to the aurender. I want to temporarily stop using the w20se to see how the msb sounds by connecting it to the ethernet directly and use roon on a computer somewhere in my room in order to enable the msb and start streaming. |
Jay, The amps coming at the end of the month, are those the ones you said were being made to order for you and were worth waiting for? Plus another pair of monos next week, hopefully one of those beasts will bring the M6s to their full potential. When you can, add or try a better dedicated server, you've already heard what a Taiko brought to the table at Mike's place. |
@viber I do not want to send this thread to a different tangent. I was not talking about any Benchmark DACs. I have had the DAC1 and hated it. The Benchmark DAC3B which I now have is much better and sound very different from the DAC1. Though the killer DAC I am now using is the Gustard X26 Pro (4 DACs in the house). I have tested at the same volume level with my DACs direct to amp vs HPA4 preamp. The HPA4 all the way every time. I also have a SONY SACD/CD player, the incredible Sony SCD-1 modified by Vacuum State 5+. The best I have ever heard this player is connected to my HPA4 preamp. Back to regular programming. |
No argument from me. This is why i really want to enjoy as many speakers as possible so i can eventually decide which one really made me feel more in touch with the music. However, many people dont have the exposure to many speakers in order to know if there might be something else they might enjoy more. Rockport is high on my list now and probably going to be the next one in line, but i can't say i will be getting something like the Lyra. If i go with Rockport, i might do the Avior 2 or maybe the Cygnus. It really depends on what is available to me at this point. I have no control as far as what is available to me. I would not mind revisiting Vivid Audio (G1 spirits would be great) or even Kharma Midi which i have never owned. |
"do we REALLY want to hear this "bite, brightness" found in real live performances ? No, we don’t. If it sounds terrible live, I want to leave, just like a bad movie. My time is more valuable than that. Why would I want that same poor sounding experience in my home, even if it sounds exactly the same as the poor sounding live experience? With a live poor-sounding performance you might put up with it bc the ambience or whatever else is fun and it makes the crappy sound survivable, but at home.....why?? You don’t purchase terrible tasting food just because it’s pure or clean or neutral or whatever - well some probably do and they can have it. No thanks. Plenty of great tasting food that is very healthy. Back to sound, the only thing I care about it that it to sounds excellent to me -- that’s all that matters, the rest is just criers screaming from the mountaintop, alone and deservedly so (and if that’s their deal - more power to them, glad they enjoy that - just stay away and enjoy your poor sounding system (to me) that you think is neutral but you admit can only be tolerated at low volumes, and I’ll do the same with the sound that I like). Here’s the thing. It either sounds good to you or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, don’t try to convince yourself that it should and maybe there’s something wrong with you because you don’t appreciate the purity - ha, just go with what you know to be true, it sounds like $&#*$! Simple enough, don’t tie yourself up in knots. Everyone hears differently so for some it may sound good to them, or they may be tricking themselves because they think they want purity - doesn’t matter, that’s their choice and as long as they’re happy, so be it -- but only you know whether or not it sounds good to you |
Part 1: Which one is the better amp? Essence or Pass Labs x350.8? Here is my take from inside the room: https://youtu.be/8zqYMvdKNak |
Most (if not all) electronics add some sort of "seasoning" to the presentation. When we say the word "neutral" with regards to a component, it isn’t really 100% neutral, but rather as close as you can get to the actual recording without deviating too much from what is the truth. Gryphon adds muscle, control and bass Boulder adds tube-like qualities (new boulder gear that is) Who the hell knows what "accurate" actually is these days? NOBODY does... The only thing we can do is go out and listen to live events and then compare at home. That said, most live events make me grab paper napkins and stuff them in my ears (true story by the way). It is either too loud, too bright for extended periods of time and ear-fatiguing. What is interesting to me is that if we have speakers that present to us such traits of live performances (brightness, loudness, etc) we immediately "ax them". So then this begs the question, are WE REALLY "neutral" when it comes to our own ears or not? do we REALLY want to hear this "bite, brightness" found in real live performances ? That is the question that i have been personally asking myself lately. |
yyz, Did you actually use your DAC direct into your power amp, and compare the DAC + LA4 + amp at the same volume setting? As much as I admire Benchmark, I am skeptical that ANY added electronics is perfectly transparent and neutral. For example, I went back to my Sony CD player from 1995 after going from the Sony digital out into the Benchmark DAC 1, which adds lots of gain and a volume control. Even though I am making big sacrifices in volume capability so I can't play loud music, the softer chamber music is much more detailed with the complete Sony than when using the Benchmark. I suspect the preamp and volume control of the Benchmark DAC 1 isn't so great. |
@whitecamaross It would be interesting to to hear your feedback with the Benchmark LA4 preamp with any of your amps. I was just conversing with someone that is using the LA4 with the CODA #16 and he loves it.
There are a few people with very expensive systems that are inserting the LA4 over their very expensive preamps ($20K+). A poster on A'gon and a few on WBF have stated this. The LA4 improved my DACs with a better volume control and since it measures quieter than all my DACs it does not color the DACs sound. I also have a CODA 07x preamp and it is great. However, I can hear it in my system (sounds beautiful). My Benchmark HPA4 preamp (same as the BM LA4 + headphone amp) makes me feel as if I do not have a preamp in the system. So you can really hear your other gear. Something to consider by going against convention. |
