My amp has no faults

I'm sure there is an amp without faults, but in order to determine which one it might be we would need a perfect speaker. You think?

I can't really fault the bel canto ref1000m amps i use. The only ones i have ever owned i can say that about. The old tandberg came close.

Of course only possible with the right match of speakers.

How do you assess no faults? Maybe my amp has no faults to me, but ask 10 other audiophiles and you'll get 10 different answers.

There is no perfect amp in an objective sense because we have no way to measure perfection.

Or are you just asking if a happy audiophile exists. To that I'd say yes, we meet on the third Saturday of every month in the back seat of my miata...

Mapman gave the kind of answer I'm looking for. Just a general opinion commensurate with your experience over the years. An amp that seems to be "all there" with enabling factors taken for granted. I've listened to a lot of amps over the years and first impressions have always been short lived. The only one that fits this category for me is the Acoustat TNT200 or 120. A pure fet amp that sounds like tubes.

Well, you know, you take any really inherently good amp and isolate it from structureborne vibration and you wind up with a much better amp. There is really no way to do that without resorting to means external to the amp. Or, take an inherently good amp and replace the amp's stock power cord with a better power cord and you wind up with an even better amp. I also suspect that if amp manufacturers started to pay attention to wire directionality and were consistent throughout the entire amp with respect to wire direction, including all point to point wiring, transformer wiring, etc. then you would begin to see some sort of revolution in amplifier sound.

I find no fault with the Hypex NCore NC400.

Faults give it character.... Character faults.

****save for the fact it's not 100% convincing?****

Is that not a fault? Please explain.

It's not the amps fault. It's the Audiophile's fault.

Love my Boulder 1060!

My amp refuses to go outside and get my newspaper.

Wolf Garcia, I have the opposite problem, I can't get my amp to come back in. It is apparent that your amp and mine have serious faults.

Newbee is right you will need the perfect speaker or at least ones that will go with the perfect amp. But in the realm of excellent sounding amps, the Pass Labs comes to mind.

all amps are imperfect. the questions is: are the flaws detectable ?

on most cases if you listen, you can find them.

in addition, some have more acute hearing than others, so what one may miss, another may hear.

...perfect amps...wire directionality...really!...got to get me a saner hobby...

Plus one for wire directionality. Nobody needs directionless wiring. Nobody.

Okay, at least you're having fun. If the question seems too skewed, just tell us which amp you would rank #1 in your experience.

its ok, all the recorded instruments have faults too, none are perfect :)

I'd opine the Bada hybrid SET headphone amp is one of the very best sounding amps I've heard, regardless of price. The sound of the Bada out of the box without, you know, breaking it in and isolating it and rolling the stock Chinese 6SN7 tubes, is excellent, but the sound gets quite a bit better when attention is paid to tube dampers, isolation, contact enhancers, things of that nature.

If the amp performs as designed, it is inherently perfect by definition. Whether or not it's perfect for your needs or matches perfectly with everything around it is a matter of personal taste subject to mood, humidity, bird noises, neighborhood electric current draw, party guest brawling, or hat choices.

I find no fault with the Hypex NCore NC400.
Wilsynet

Check here for opinions on the best amp ever built. Hypex Circle
Never heard it, but sure is a lot of excitement over it.

No amp can drive all speakers made.

You first have to sort out that distinction.

Then there is the simple fact that tubes have a different sound (less odd ordered harmonic distortion) which is why they are described as 'smoother'.

You have to sort out if you like that.

So there are preferences involved. In my case, if there is brightness (extension and speed are not brightness by the way...), its a deal-breaker, so I avoid transistors.

I said it best first. And for that we should all be grateful.

Okay, we have four players, five including me. Elizabeth is clearly not happy with her Bryston, lots of those for sale used. I think I might venture Wilsynet's and Timrhu's Hypex Ncore NC400s. Lots of great reviews on them. Besides, I have no experience with switch mode amps. Not that I'm unhappy with my Acoustats, they speak for themselves. Don't you just love the future? Thanks guys.

Elizabeth doesn't like her Bryston? Man...my entire reality is shattered.

I'm just guessing:) Btw, just because an amp performs as designed doesn't make it a "good" performer in any circumstance. In any case, you haven't named any names.

With no idea of your speakers, this question is a bit absurd.

Most questions about audio are a bit absurd !!!!

It's absurd to ask which amp stands out in your mind as being the best you've experienced? This is exactly the kind of question that takes your preconceived notions of priority to task, isn't it. Because now you have to put them aside and make a general statement. Let's say you have a well matched amp. Is it not possible there is another equally well matched amp for the same system that trumps the other one in performance? Are all amps equal given the right circumstances? To say yes to that would be absurd. Some amps are just plain lousy and some are going to sound at least good with most speakers. Lets say you've discovered the best amp for a particular system and say for a second system you've done the same. Both are the best under the circumstances. Is it not possible to now state which amp is better overall in your opinion? What if ten people who listened to both systems agreed on which amp is best overall? OH OH

I will stand by my statement that it is absurd without the mention of speaker for context. See Atmasphere's atatement above. I have had a few amps that, when paired with particular appropriate speakers I felt exhibited no major faults. When I paired each of those amps with another speaker, with different characteristics (due to crossovers or drivers, or other aspects of their construction), these amps were less ideal compared to other contenders.

To this day, I will recommend the Butler 2250 for someone who has a somewhat inefficient speaker that needs current (SP Tech Minis, in my case). The Rogue Stereo 90 for a somewhat more efficient speaker (Von Schweikert VR-4 Gen IIs). The Butler did not sound as good as the Rogue on the VR-4s, but was preferable on the SP Techs.

In the lower wattage realm, for single driver designs, I will always rave about the First Watt F2J, but this is a very specialized amp. And if the speaker's impedance is appropriate for it, I am a huge fan of the Atma-Sphere S-30.

The above are the top four amps I have heard. But this only applies when paired particular suitable speakers for them.

For the best possible sound, match amp to speakers. I have yet to be convinced that there is a jack-of-all-trades amp that will get you the best possible sound across speakers. And yes, I have heard ncores in my system with both the SP Techs and the VR-4s. An impressive amp, but it beat out neither of the amps mentioned above.

Would high power consumption, low efficiency or generation of a lot of heat be considered a "fault"?

Those are clearly measurable attributes of an amp.

Not all that determines the sound heard is measurable or accounted for by specifications. Even then much that can be measured does not alone determine performance. So the final determination of what constitutes a fault or not is of course highly subjective and debatable.

Okay Roscoeiii, you've answered the question and I trust your opinion. You clearly have the experience to justify your position. But it's your position on preference that I'm interested in. Thank you.

Mapman, measurable specs or efficiency are irrelevant to my question. Your Bel Cantos are highly regarded so I respect your answer.

Csontos,

I am curious what you speakers are.

I have three pairs, Kef 105/2s, Mission V63s, and JBL L5s. Also a pair of Velodyne 12" powered subs. Right now, the L5s are coupled to one of my Acoustat TNT200s through a Meridian 501 pre and Oppo BDP95. I have two other TNT200s and a TNT120 currently being rebuilt. I'm in the process of building a fully active system and hence the need for multiple amps. They will be used with a pair of altered JBL 4345s I'm endeavoring to build. Actually, they are being built by a former customer of mine who is a cabinet maker. The Acoustats are simply stunning. Roy Esposito who was part of the engineering team that designed them rebuilt them for me. But this is a hobby and I love amplifiers. My purpose for starting the thread is simply to compile a list of "the best of the best". I did not intend to cultivate controversy. I suppose the title achieved that but I wanted attention. Not as much as I'd hoped for.

Oh, well if you are looking for amps for an active system that does change things. No pesky amp-crossover interactions to worry about. Fun stuff.

I will be using the Acoustats to start with but I for one like merry-go-rounds.

Csontos, you might want to read this:

http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php

On ESLs, OTLs are often described as 'the best'.

Tubes in general usually work better on horns and high efficiency speakers than transistors.

Some speakers are such low efficiency and/or impedance that you need an amp with a lot of power and is comfortable with low impedances. In such a case transistors will likely serve better (despite the misgivings I have about transistors).

If you read the article at that link then you know more than most about the matching issues involved.

For me convincing is more a product of the speaker and the amplifier than just the amp.

That said:
My NuForce and now nCores have, to a large part, spoiled me for most linear solid state amplifiers. Of course there are new solid state amplifiers that I could never afford that I'm sure could hit most of the marks the switching amps do.

There is one area most linear sold state amps fall short compared to my switching amps. In driving my Eidolons they begin to get congested and distinctly fatiguing at higher listening levels. For me this is a big issue. The ability to listen to music comfortably at more realistic levels is THE luxury of high end.

Neither the linear solid state or switching amplifiers do second order harmonics like tubes which is why my nCores are relegated to the studio. I have finally found a pair of affordable 200 watt pentodes that can drive my speakers effortlessly.

Even though tubes may have the most amplification faults, those faults are an easy trade off for the characteristics I value in entertainment playback as opposed to the desired clinical playback the switching amplifiers provide in my studio.

Technical evolution will continue, for now its about the right tool for the job.

Thank you, Ralph. I did read that paper when it was recently referred to on another thread and just read it again. I'll probably read it a couple more times yet. Seems like it could be a game changer. Possibly in a mix. I like the bottom end to cut like a knife.

Bottom end cutting like a knife? Check OTLs then if you are looking to go tubes. Though the damping factor of the amp will affect how tight the bass is to some degree (this will differ according to the drivers employed for the low-end, another reason to think in terms of specific speaker-amp pairing). I have both amps that overdamped and underdamped the bass on my speakers. With some Atma-Sphere amps, the damping factor can be fairly low, so underdamping is potential risk.

Even though tubes may have the most amplification faults, those faults are an easy trade off for the characteristics I value in entertainment playback as opposed to the desired clinical playback the switching amplifiers provide in my studio.

The reason tubes are still around half a century after they were supposed to be obsolete is that people like them. They like them because it is easier to get a tube amplifier to obey human hearing rules than it is with transistors. Its that simple.

So I would not describe tubes as having 'amplification faults'. If anything they have less. We use them in our studio too :)

"They like them because it is easier to get a tube amplifier to obey human hearing rules than it is with transistors. "

They also look way cool!

["So I would not describe tubes as having 'amplification faults'. If anything they have less. We use them in our studio too :)"]

Neither would I, but many "may" view them as having faults such as tube degradation, heat, and cost.

Aside from the physical and financial reasons for not using tube amplifiers in our studio the combination of the nCores and the little Avalon Mixing Monitors simply fits our needs.

"The ability to listen to music comfortably at more realistic levels is THE luxury of high end."

It is certainly one in my book.

Getting good sound all the time at higher levels is one of the things that justifies spending a bit more on speakers that are up to the task and teh amplification needed to make them sing.

That is a really nice quote!

Actually most amps and speakers are up to the task of playing at moderate to high volumes without the distortion driving you out of the room, but the plain fact is that other things, some things that go bump in the night, produce the distortion. Unfortunately, speakers and amps get a lot of the the blame. The distortion I'm referring to, the distortion you hear when the volume is turned up, is at least an order of magnitude higher than a modestly priced amp's total harmonic distortion.

Atmas,

Vic Damone said it originally above and I agree 100%.