MM vs MC Cartridges

Cartridge gain is levelled solely by the phono preamp, not the output gain. Acquire an adjustable gain pre and enjoy.

My carts vary from .26 to 4.5 mv, all the same output from the pre.

I thought same a while ago, but working with HO cartridges is much simpler and cheaper.

The MP100 will handle all but the lowest output MC cartridges just fine, so if you're happy with the rest of your gear you should be able to determine whether you like a MC cartridge better. I like and use both, and the differences are not always predictable.

There is also moving iron, just to add to the OP’s choices.

I echo Fuzztone. Get a step-up transformer from kandkaudio.com. Your MC cart will get the authority it needs. 

So many more setting options with MC  carts if you have the right phono preamp, like my PS Audio Stellar. So much so that I am in the process of going all MC. Playing MM on the Stellar is like wasting 75% of its abilities. Even so I love hard pounding rock music more than anything else. Perfect for MM many would say, but not for me. Too limiting, just 47 kohms and you better like it. Changing the ohms anywhere from 60 to 1,000 on the REMOTE has done wonders for me as each recording can sound at its best on different ohm setting. Too dark, bring up the ohms, too bright turn them down. Voila.

At first glance your existing McIntosh phono can do it all it seems.

For my first MC cartridge, I chose low output, because the whole idea of MC is to get refined movement/results from smaller/lighter parts.

AT33PTG/II, wide separation, tight channel balance, excellent sound IMO.

I go thru SUT to MM Phono in my tube preamp, you would just go to your existing MP100 and use it's MC internal SUT.

research the relationship of cartridge signal strength and cartridge coil impedance before and after signal boost, some are difficult combos. my .3mv and 10 ohm coil impedance is a fairly easy combination.

Baylinor, you may be brilliant in your chosen field, but with all due respect, in audio you don’t know what you don’t know. You’ll get an education here.

That's why I came here, to learn. Unfortunately a post like yours teaches nothing. With all due respect.

griptube-

Your phonostage has 60db of gain. You're good with carts in the .5mv  range. You probably could go 1-2 mv lower, but .5mv  would be the safe value.

That will include just about all popular brands out there. You can also consider the Soundsmith moving iron carts.

So far I am looking at:

Benz-Micro Wood SL

HANA ML

And a couple of others. I'm confused.

Joe

Hi, 

Before you try KT120s, read up on the Tung Sol 7581A. There's a slight dip in power but has a really balanced presentation with a tad more bass presence and upper end air over the EL34. I have them in my Evo 400 and really love the extra bit of detail. And they're inexpensive.

Do try the low output MCs, even if to compare against your HO MCs.

That particular McIntosh phono preamp is a good jack of all trades. I've found that going to a dedicated MC phono preamp was a better path for me. I use a Hagerman Trumpet MC and it does an amazing job getting my AT33PTGII cartridge to sing with no noise. 

I can match any MC cart with the affordable, all-tube Hagerman.

Good luck!

Sandthemall I already have 8 NEW KT-120's, (planning for the future). But I'm open to Tube Rolling.

Joe

@griptube , it sounds to me you are going to be better off sticking with high output cartridges. To get a moving coil cartridge noticeably better than the 2M Black you are going to have to spend more than $3K. There are several other moving magnet cartridges that are serious performers like the AT VM760SLC, The Clearaudio Maestro and the Goldring 1042. You are much better off with one of these than buying a cheap moving coil. 

Mijo, I wouldn't in general argue with your advice, but what about Audio Technica MC cartridges?  The ART series sells retail for about $1200 before any discount, and I think they are superb, although I have not compared my ART7 (now discontinued in favor of the ART9Xa) to any of the MMs mentioned here.  The OP would probably love the ART9Xi (0.5mV output); it is the offspring of the ART9, which gets as many accolades here as does the sainted Herron phono stage.  The ART9Xa puts out only 0.2mV, so unless the OP's phono has enough gain for that, the 9Xi version is the one to think about.  Less expensive AT MC cartridges are also excellent.  To think I bought my ART7 for only $800.

I have listened to a Ortofon 2m Black and I can tell you you don't  need anywhere near $3K+  to better it. IMO

I have listened to the Nag200 and I can tell you need nothing more .

I’m dealing with the situation but I’m helping a friend with his vinyl rig and I believe a low output cartridge would be too much of a challenge for his Rega phono amp. 
So, how about medium output cartridges? I know they’re out there. Can people name some medium output cartridges so that I have a reference?
Thanks!

I’m dealing with the situation but I’m helping a friend with his vinyl rig and I believe a low output cartridge would be too much of a challenge for his Rega phono amp.
So, how about medium output cartridges? I know they’re out there. Can people name some medium output cartridges so that I have a reference?

What gain?

What $ level

Have you looked at Moving Iron?

I prefer well made MM/MI cartridges to MC. I'm currently running the Grado Statement3 on my SME 20/3. Several folks that have heard this rig have also switched from MC to MM, one retiring an expensive Air Tight.

In your price range, I would recommend the Grado Master3.

SoundSmith also makes excellent high output MI cartridges. In your price range, look into the Carmen. No one comes close to their rebuild price; 20% of retail.

Dear @griptube : " MC Low output Cartridge only to find my Audio Gear is not up to the Job. "

You only need to look for LOMC cartridges of 0.3mv output and up. The @lewm is a good option for a MC. The non MC @vinylvalet  alternatives are good too and different of what you own as could be the LOMC Audio Technica cartridge too.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

I just purchased a 'Benz Micro Glider' 0.9mv. It's a medium output Cartridge. It takes care of my fears of not having enough output and a step up in a quality MC. I get it tomorrow, hopefully installed next week on my Thorens TD1601.

I think I live in the 'rabbit hole'. Now I have 5 Phono Cartridges. Now I am going to get the Wax outta my Ears. I have 71 years of build up in em'.

Joe

Check the Soundsmith web page Peter has a whole education on the different  types of cartridges. I'm currently using the Carmen Il which is excellent .

Garrott bros in Australia, and SoundSmith in the US, both do the MI cartridges.

(I was considering the Hana ML, but ended up with a Garrott Bros.)

Peter Ledermann (SoundSmith) has some videos where he makes some compelling arguments for his MI designs.

https://youtu.be/F65mODzn4Gk

@lewm , the AT MC cartridges are fabulous for the money but the OP would have to add a phono stage with more gain or a transformer and I believe he is price sensitive so the MM option is a better value for him.....I think. It is up to the OP of course and my crystal ball has cataracts.