Miracles in Audio, by luck, by good choices,by design or by tweaking...
I owned a low cost headphone for many years, the Fostex TH7B, first version( a new one close version exist Fostex TH7BK), semi-open headphone...I was never completely satisfied by any headphones I ever owned: Hifiman 400, Stax basic lamda, Stax 5 gold,Akg 340,Akg 701, beyerdynamic 990, and T150... Because in each of them with all their qualities I never listen to at the same times, a confortable headphone with natural timbre and voicing, with a good imaging and a realistic soundstage(not too close to my ears)...
For the last days I tweaked this Fostex, to damp his internal resonance I used sorbothane, I put some shungite stones at the exterior part of the cups and I use some Herkimer diamond in the interior pads( 3 at 120 degree) … Now this low cost headphones crush all my others if I sum all his qualities... For example his mids and voicing cannot beat the AKG 340 but among all my other headphones it is the best that is near that mids and it is more confortable, and with longer cable than the 340...His imaging is better and more realistic than the 340 etc etc...It is the same if I compare with the others...
His most important qualities is natural timbre and clear imaging,very precise pinned point accuracy and natural, so clear it crush for that ALL the others to dust...In the French audio circle the reviews were more than very positive few years ago...Diapason d’or and choc Classica...I am not the only one impressed buy the ratio quality/price... But remember that thesae reviewers dont tweak their headphone...The difference between before and after the tweaks are staggering...
Yes Miracles happens in Audio: cost is under 100 American dollars... Few years ago they cost me 50 bucks new... I never dreamed that I will go back to headphones...
I will enjoy your miracles stories of any kind ….My best to all...
I immediately use the springs box with the 6 springs but modifying the load on the speakers, to adjust them.... Like i said i keep my "sandwiches" for the 2 reasons i explained...
Immediate improvement in clarity...
But without adjusting the compression around 30% can gives a result with too much inclination toward higher frequencies...It takes me 2 takes to reach the best and the best was the original load that was already on my speakers.... :)
For most people no need of a load on top of speakers at all, keep the adjusting with calculating the right amount of springs in each box, be it 2, 3, 4 or 5 or 6...... It was more easy for me to keep my load to compress my sandwiches and the speakers....And to keep my tweeters anyway at the right height relative to my ears....
The boxes scream quality each spring in his aluminium cell are tightly adjusted...Ridiculous price.....
I did not evaluate the sound without my "sandwiches" because i dont wanted to disconnect my speakers , it would had been complicated, because i had many other things connected here and all is tightly packed near a wall corner ... :)
It takes me time to free the speakers acoustically from their bad location but i succeed.... It is an another story tough...
And under the springs the "sandwiches" cannot do harm on the contrary they separated my desk from the Speakers/springs system....
The spring system is very great buying no doubt.... I even just bought another set for my amplifier few minutes ago...
The price at the adress i gives is unbeattable....
In my scale of S.Q. improvement increased by the way we control the embeddings,
The mechanical/vibrations/resonance embeddings is 25 % of final S.Q.
The noise floor of the house electrical grid embeddings is 35 % of the final S.Q.
The acoustical embeddings ,especially in small room, and even in nearfield listening contrary to a popular myth in audio threads, is the more impactful with 40 % of the final S.Q.
But an IMPORTANT remark :
No embeddings controls can gives all that there is to gives by itself and cannot replace the others embeddings controls at all....
If you want 100% of the possible S.Q. from your audio system you need to control ALL THREE EMBEDDINGS...
There is NO shortcut with one tweak or 2 tweak....It is better to create your own and adjust them to your own situation than buying generically created branded costly design...The price would be too high for me anyway and the results would not be better....if i had put my faith in commercial tweaks i would never have understood the concept and objects of the embeddings... And the problems would have been only partially posed...
--The mechanical embedding is relatively simple to take care of....There is many solutions, for now the "sandwiches" and the springs are my way....
--The electrical embedding is more difficult, i succeed with stones and crystals and especially with my "golden plates" which i am very proud of...
You can put a golden plate for example on your house’s main router, you cannot treat the router in particular or the external electrical meter of the house or a second electrical panel in a room, with an electronic solution devised to filters the line and very costly and NOISY because of their electronic parts....Without electronic components the "golden plates" dont introduce noise of their own coming from their parts....
--The acoustical embeddings is the more complex to take care of by far....Passive materials and active methods are mandatory here....I am very proud of my grid of different resonators all linked together to a grid of Schumann generators, and of my "golden fingers" particularly...."golden fingers" and my "twin fans" are sound diffusor device that are also partly connected resonators....Very powerful for peanuts costs...
In the passive acoustical treatment embeddings the key is the right balance for a specific room between absorption, reflection, and diffusion devices....For the active acoustical embeddings the active use of resonance and diffusion is key....
A method of listening experiments is NOT a tweak or a bunch of tweaks...Except for people unable to understand even simple problem.... Sorry....
i advise about a method not a product and the price is zero dollars for those who know how to read....
:)
By the way it is fun to play with experiments.... I just have a new idea for my acoustical embeddings few minutes ago then the sequel for the next days....
UPDATE: 49 "golden Strings" + 7 cone bells resonators +H.D. each on 2 strings...= total 51 strings dangling from the ceiling.... WAF approved tough..... :)
The diffusion of sound is worked by the golden strings and the "Twin Fans", with the resonators linked throught the "Bell of BELLS" to the S.G. grid, all this worked marvellously...
I add 2 strings with 7 bell cones with an herkimer diamond in each on a 14 inches copper tape.... This is not only a diffusor device like some golden strings but an active resonator....Incredible effect on the soundstage....
The sound inhabit the room...The effect is also powerful for near listening....
I added also to the 50 "golden strings" 9 new one (2 feet) i created with tourmaline necklace...
I will not repeat adjectives about the increase in S. Q.
The springs under my speakers and the new " golden plates" add a new level of clarity, but these new diffusors devices, the golden strings and the resonators, act primarily on imaging and soundstage and also on the timbre perception by increasing the bass and higher frequencies diffusion...
Audio is a surprizing hobby and rewarding...NOT necessarily costly, except if you fall for the hype....
--Passive acoustic treatment is the art to create a balance between absorbant, reflective, and diffusive surface with inert materials...
There is no rule in the absolute, except for specifically designed acoustic room ; but with small ordinary living room, we must use the ears, because of the different acoustical properties of the material content in the room, and because of the great difference in geometry and topology room to room...And contrary to what many said, it is not only a bass trap problems and calculating the right nodes....This is too simplistic and good for those who want to sell you their materials :)
-- Active acoustic controls use more diffusion process and passive and active resonators, and Schumann generators grid, active acoustic use devices not only inert materials...
«No, sound is not only a plant, it is an animal» -Groucho Marx
I reach the limit of my actual audio system.... And it is a good one...
I will not upgrade any part because of the heavy price to pay to extend the S.Q. It will be silly except for a man richer than i am...
My speakers Mission Cyrus 781 can be upgraded, even if they are very good, especially in the bass extension.... I listen to 7 inches driver with my stomach sometimes.... The active controls of the acoustic help...Replacing it by a Top Tannoy.... :)
My Sansui AU 7700 amplifier is a marvel i know now, but A Berning TUBE ZOTL will beat it easily at 6000 dollars price and i would perhaps use it at pre-amplification for one of my 2 Sansui....
Then without changing my dac, i am already near 10,000 to upgrade... :)
My dac is too cheap cost and too good to be upgraded tough.....I have no idea if some hyped dac of this year will crush it really and at what price and which dac? :)
Replacing speakers is easy, amplifier too for me, but a dac not so easy.....How do you know if a dac is good without trying it? For dac, reviews means less than in speakers and amplifier case....
But now i am too much happy with the music i have in a marvellous natural way, on all counts, to be sorrowful because i will never be able to upgrade...
I know my audio system is limited but i dont feel it anymore at all now, like 2 years ago.... Thanks to embeddings controls....
Hi Mahgister. Regarding the spring footers. Do you have any idea as to the amount of weight that one footer at full capacity (7 springs) will handle at 30% compression? I realize I can adjust down in number of springs. Thanks for the link.
Looking forward to your photos of non-approved WAF golden strings and ceiling :,-)
It takes me i dont know precisely around 80 lbs including speakers at least perhaps 85 on each 4 footers with 7 springs you are right not 6.... Try adding some concrete on top and listen... If the upper frequencies are harsh it is not enough.... When mids and bass are dominant it is there...with the precise weigh of the concrete you will deduce the weigh compression and after that keepinng the number of springs needed.... I go more swiftly with my ears.... :)
My wife in fact approved my diffusor devices dangling from the ceiling with 59 cabled "golden strings" and the "Bell of bells"... She said this is amazing and fascinating, my grand children also.... :)
UPDATE about the new 7 cone bells+ herkimer diamond inside, on 2 strings of copper tape...
I connected them to the "Bell of bells" in the center of my room dangling from the ceiling, all that connected already to the Schuman generators grid around the room, and wow, they give me better higher frequencies and bass....A not so slight improve, very audible.... It takes me 5 minutes and a thin copper phone cable to make it... Cost 1/2 peanut...With my experience now i know what the effect would be.... :)
And some audiophile speak about 10,000 dollars upgrade....And some even speak about the "indicible and unspeakable" quality of high-end.... They dont say that like a testimony about the difficulties linked to a description of perceptions with words, they say that first and foremost to suggest the almost sublime superiority of costly high-end..... Tragical and comical misinformation and stupidity of people only able to upgrade without never listening to what they just bought, unable to embed it, and even not knowing that embeddings controls are necessary for any audio system....It takes me few months to figure it out.... Some never figured it in 40 years... Too much upgrade to manage probably.... Luckily i was poor, if not, i certainly will be in an upgrading process without end, toward "indescriptible" high-end and inaccessible to the poor, true high-end, i read that in a post today.... :)
I cannot resist mocking clowns sometimes.... I apologize....But they merit mockery to encourage others in the same money pit dead end....They cannot face truth for themselves and hide it to others.... Consumerism +blinders....
They will kill themselves listening to my under 500 dollars system connected with 10 dollars Schuman generators and copper tape and crystals....
My Moravec Chopin Nocturnes was out of this world..... Complete extasy.... I know this cd for 15 years.... I listen to it the first time really this evening....
This cd is a marvel.... And a test for any system....
Ok this time i am done, my imagination envision nothing more, no new creations........
I add 6 new "golden strings" 2 feet long with lava beads over my head and between speakers, for an amazing total of 65 golden strings...
The goal was to structure a dispersive sound grid, active, because of the cabled resonators and balance, by a key positioning, all aspects of sound.... It seems my pattern on the ceiling works....
It must be adapted for any specific room for sure...
Now i am near the end .... anaway i own no more lava beads , tourmaline and cone bells.... Only plenty of herkimer diamonds unused....
The passive acoustic treatment with materials cannot give what a more active one will do ever, in a small room the sound can be magnificent indeed, if we takes acoustic seriously with our own ears/hands....
For the first time in my life i enjoy music no more trying to forget the limitation of the sound quality.... And all my files are good now.... I dont select music because the files are better....Some are better but this time ALL sound good and very different from one another...
I wish the same for you all....
Important note: I eliminate 80 % of my metal singing reflective resonators, they are replaced now by dispersive devices and resaonators.... When i put them in place it was an improvement in this small room... But after all the trasformation they were in too much great number and produce more harm than good...
Acoustic is the art to BALANCE, in a specific room and with his content, reflective and absorbent surfaces with dispersive one.... Active mini resonators plays a role also....
I keep "singing resonators" at key locations, they compensate for absorbant materials at another locations, but the main role was played now by disspersive devices and grids, with active connected mini resonators....Schumann generators cabled grid has an enomous effect to enlive the sound and the reactive resonators
UPDATE: 8 Tourmaline "golden strings" with an herkimer diamond at the end of the strings all connected by cable to the "Bell of Bells"
Gosh! I have no idea why this last addition of connectors is so good....Is it the H.D. ? the connection to the bells of bells? Or because these strings are between the speakers and slightly in front of them 2 feet over my head at my desk? No idea..... :) I know what i am doing but the results are sometimes unexpected with these grids....
I amaze myself....The connection of these strings to the bell at the center of the room itself connected to my Shumann generators grid is powerful...
Gives more meat to the sound, more full bodied after all the clealiness added by the springs and the Golden plates, and it increase imaging a notch....... For the last 15 days i live trough the greatest improve in S.Q. i ever lived trough.... It is like my system which i tought it was good 1 month ago, was in reality not so good....
Twin fans grid with resonators, golden strings grids on my ceiling, more connections to the Schumann generators and last but not least, 3 golden plates on the external electrical meter of my house, the springs improvement on top of my "sandwiches" under my speakers all that is amazing...All that in the same 15 days is an increase in the 3 embeddings at the same times, mechanical, electrical and acoustical....
Embeddings are all Audio, the rest is consumerism and ignorance indeed....
:)
note: all my increase in S.Q. are always true in near listening and regular listening.....
UPDATE: 8 Tourmaline "golden strings" with an herkimer diamond at the end of the strings all connected by cable to the "Bell of Bells"
In my last post i made an error the 8 strings were lava beads...
Now i decided to connect in the same way the 8 tourmaline strings up from my head in the regular listening position... The 8 lava beads connected in my precedent post are up over my head in nearfield listening...
When we are near the ultimate potential S.Q. of our audio system, and it seems to be the case for me, improvement are possible and audible but subtle and even if they are no more so spectacular, anyway the improvement is audible easily with a very complex sound recording i own, "Holy Harmony" of Jonathan Goldmann.... It is made of many tuned forks frequencies spinning around the room with subtle chimes that you will not hears if your system is not good...I hear them more clearly and the spinning frequencies are now more spinning than pulsating around my head...
Organ works of Bach are also very good to help the relation between bass and higher frequencies scale evaluations... When the full frequencies spectrum is listening to without too much emphasis on a part of the scale in detriment to some other parts, with no jump but smoothness between rung of the scale, you are near the goal....
I am now on the limit of any other possible increase in S.Q. with these speakers.... If i was in the mood and with the money to upgrade it will be these vey good speakers, not the amplifier first nor the dac...The problem is this 7 inches driver deliver bass so deep and so clear i hear it with my stomach... What will be the price of speakers improving the higher frequencies and maintaining this bass without lacking in the mid frequencies and able to deliver imaging and holographic soundstage on par or better? Many THOUSANDS of dollars you can be sure.... Not bad for 50 dollars used speakers 25 years old at least....
I am happy with what i have, but all audiophile dream about some upgrade...I am not different...But in my case i HAD a good S.Q. already then i am not in frustration at all....
The problem and his answer are written on one line :
Embed everything rightfully before upgrading anything at all.....
You will be surprize how good what your own system already is....
I decided to connect the 2 ends of the 8 tourmaline interconnected strings with 2 different cables and not only one, connecting the 2 cables to the bell of bells... It is audible and better....
I feel the bass organ notes in the air.....Oufff...
I will connect now the 2 ends of the lava beads strings that over my head in nearfield listening.... Only one end of the interconnected strings were connected to the Bell of bells ...
I just will :) And the audible results are more meat to the sound without any l loss in any frequencies on the contrary better mids frequencies and more bass....Amazing yes....Totally amazing improved soundstage innear listening for now....A cd i just listen to many times for the last 2 days....
My grid of interconnected "golden strings" diffusor and resonators, connected at the same time to the "Bell of bells" and to the grid of schumann Generator are my best creations, "golden plates" in second....They partly solve the problems linked to the 2 main embeddings...My "sandwiches" and the springs under speakers solve partly the mechanical embedding....I will try to improve that.... :)
Just when i was thinking that this was the end....
I already have an another idea to use , my homemade own " tuned damping mass" for my speakers in one month .... I wait for the materials....
I am nut yes, but i am serene....
Remember the cost of my audio system is 400 dollars the materials to improve it is many times higher even homemade but the results exceed more average system by more than one head.... I know that.... And the upgrading will be at least many times this cost and i am glad how the system is anyway now....
I think that the grid of "Golden strings" activated resonators and diffusor devices create a kind of feed back from the direct sound and with the reflected sound, thanks to the Bell of bells connected to the Schumann Generators....
What i hear comes not only directly from the speakers but from a sound coming from all directions and diffused and resonated through the strings and amplified by the Schumann generators grid...It is what i call ACTIVE ACOUSTIC CONTROLS, and i dont know who else except me use this concept.... :) If you know someone else wrote to me... PASSIVE ACOUSTIC TREATMENT is not so powerful indeed being passive.... In a small room the active controls make us able to neutralize all the problems linked to the content and geometry of the room....They are my most important discovery....
I am no scientist.... But the changes are flabbergasting indeed....
3 years ago i was looking for the best speakers my money can afford, i even buy a supposed better amplifier than my actual Sansui, another Sansui, and i was not sure about the dac i was just pruchasing....
Like all of us i was in the upgrading race, not knowing the SIMPLE AUDIOPHILE LAWS i paid dearly to learn:
The first law, which is the most fundamental audiophile law: " Dont upgrade before embedding it"
Second law:" There exist 3 embeddings dimensions" : MECHANICAL(resonance-vibrations), ELECTRICAL (noise level of any links and general noise floor of the house), ACOUSTICAL ( the known passive materials standard way and the underestimated active controls ways)
Third law: "The more uplifting upgrading effects are most of the time linked to the controls of the embeddings dimensions, except most of the times if you go to a higher rung with a purchase of E.C."
Fourth law: " All electronic components (E.C.) roughly are distributed on a 3 rungs scale of ratio quality/price, and the S.Q. ratio decrease or increase in a non linear way with these 3 steps, (low, medium, high or a Gaussian with a non normal distribution if you wish)"
Fifth law: " Any upgrade with a new E.C. on the same rung as a past E.C. will result most of the time in a low increase of S.Q. at best if there is one, compared to big increase in S.Q. with a more rightful way to embed the components you already owns"
Sixth law: " Then, dont upgrade anything before you have rightly embedded all and everything"
I really tought that my thread was at the end with my last post, and i really tought that it was not really possible to go further without a very costly upgrading of gear....One day or another we all reach what is called, in french and in english, a " plateau"...
I was wrong i reach another level yesterday and also another one today... It is linked to the acoustical controls...
I will give some idea about the impact, massive impact of active device acoustic controls soon.... It seems nobody knows about that nowhere....Especially those who sells acoustical products.... :)
In a room the balance between reflective, absorbent and diffusive surface is the key to a good acoustic...
With all modifications in my audio system and room, i had to create a new equilibrium between all these different surfaces...In particular i reduce the reflective one because they begin to show too much echoes and reverberations...
I decide after reducing the % of my reflective surfaces to improve what i keep, mainly 2 set of 6 metal bucket, glued together, lice a triangular 6-cells... In the center of each bucket were an herkimer diamond+ tourmaline bead....There is also copper tape band crossing each other on the aperture of each bucket, and i decide to place micro herkimer diamond+tourmaline beads all along the copper tape at central spots...This gives me a sensational improvement...
Increase of the soundstage and better imaging was the results...
My room is way better than 2 years ago by light years....
What we listen to in a room are "informed waves" created by all the content and geometry of the room....There is no sound in a room that is not informed by the room, never mind the speakers....And the myth that nearfield listening gives to you permission to not treat and control the room is only that, a myth ...
The key point is creating conditions to take advantage of this content and geometry...Even taking advantage of reverberations is possible...
The main error is modifying a room in relation to only one characteristic of the sound, for example bass frequencies...
Sellers who want to profit from crowd of customer, use standardized materials and easy procedural measure on some limited aspect of the sound only... If you sell something it must be easy product and easy formula....But only your ears can speak for you about your room....It cost nothing but you must invest time.... A computer can help but no acoustical program will solve all problems... They applied formulas after some limited feed back they dont listen to the room like ears...Then you can without even computer do the job....It takes time for sure....But this is a hobby no?
If you want to change your room the only guide is the reaction of your ears to tonal timbre instruments accuracy....Nothing else...Using only some frequencies to guide you is not the ideal path at all....
The acoustic of a small irregular room with a complex content with different acoustical properties is more complex to adjust than a Greek theater or a big musical hall...Some general rules that play their role in these bigger structure must be adjust with these particularities of the small room.... We must discover how to use these particularities or limitations in a positive way...
I create my room by listening, trying to reach timbre accuracy , the best i can, imaging, soundstage also.... The bass so important for many, come after that like a ripe fruit....
My 7 inches driver gives me a bass that is powerful and clear.... I dont think that this is commonly the case from most speakers of this small/medium size ...But in the same room 2 years ago it was not the same bass at all....
If i give to you the confidence to trust your ears, to buy less, and to play more, my goal is reached....
If you can listen music at relatively low volume with a clear distinction of tonal timbre accuracy, then, your room is very good now.....Like mine..... :)
It is not the bass frequencies nor the higher frequencies that must pilot and inform the acoustic work in a room, but ONLY the perception of tonal timbre accuracy... The conditions which you will use to improve tonal accuracy will also improve bass.... The contrary is not necessary true, because timbre tonality is more complex and encompassing concept than bass frequencies only.....Average computer algorithm for room are not made on the foundation of timbre perception.... We need ears for that....And we are lucky because we have free one.... :)
Timbre is itself very difficult to define acoustically because of the many factors playing a role in his perception....
Someone said to me that I cannot have Ron Carter in my room with the speakers i own and the amplifier i also own....
This someone said that without big magnepan with very big amplifier it is impossible to have Ron Carter in my room....
But i have it, not because of my amplifier and speakers choice, they are good, but way less powerful and refined than a big magnepan with a very costly and powerful amplifier....He called my version of Ron Carter in my room, diplomatically, a "miniature"... It is not false for sure but it is not true either....Do i have a complete sound of a bass in my room? Yes....Is it on the exact same level than with the big Amp+ Magnepan.... Not so....But we speak about a low cost gear versus very costly one here.... And my point is this: i am not so far off the costly system with mine than people are willing to suppose....:)
I have Ron Carter in my Room because of the acoustic controls....
Not an electronic costly one, like the brand this person suggest, but with homemade cheap metal buckets "singing resonators" with Herkimer diamond, and my golden plates and some few others devices of my own....
The lesson learned by me is that acoustic controls is the most important of the 3 embeddings and the most transformative and upgrading feature there is in audio....
I know that most will think that i am nut.... But this is my experience....
I will not go on describing more my acoustic controls because i lack patience with peoples who instead of experiments trust only the sellers of acoustic materials orthodox view...Or people who think that bass frequencies is the thing to begin with in room control....
The analysis of sound in a room is more akin to the study of a "cellular organism" living in his own time frame (hundreth of seconds) something i call an "informed wave" than to a set of frequencies only...
Timbre is the embodiment of tonality and timbre is impossible to understand in term of frequencies only....Room controls is first and last the controls of timbre expression.... Not bass nor higher frequencies ....But it takes very good speakers to begin with to express timbre in a perfect way for sure....But without room controls most speakers will not gives their best at all....
I will not go forward anymore....
Arguing when the world crumble is not the thing to do....
So these go under components to support them or loose on top? Any idea what weight they support under a component? I can understand the isolating effect underneath but what do they do if placed on top?
They are very good and cost nothing.... I bought them and the results are amazing...
BUT the adjustment by ears takes few days, and must be finetune with a load (this is more precise than taking off springs if you can). The fine tuning of the load must be around 1and 2 % of the compressing load...They must be highly compressed, with the speakers i place on them around 80 pounds....
You must listen to TIMBRE to adjust them optimally not towards high frequencies or bass one, but toward natural timbre....Too much high means they aure not enough compressed, too much bass they are too much compressed....The right compression will be audible with 1 or 2 pounds variation of load near their optimum.... And the timbre will be at his best....
So these go under components to support them or loose on top? Any idea what weight they support under a component? I can understand the isolating effect underneath but what do they do if placed on top?
You put them UNDER speakers...What i know is in my last post...
I cannot gives more measure numbers only approximation because i use my ears for adjustment...
I improved my "singing resonators" not only by adding micro herkimer diamonds and tourmaline beads around them, i also add a big chunk of shungite (elite variety) +a big herkimer diamond in the middle of the 7 glued together buckets...
I keep 2 sets of seven buckets, one set in a corner of my room, at right of my listening position; another set under the ceiling in the middle of the room; all 2 sets oriented toward the speakers....
The change in the sound is very audible and can be adjust or modified by the different stones, in number or by their qualitative difference....The sound can be made more toward higher frequencies or bass one, the criterium is always a better timbre....
At cost of peanuts, anyone can transform the acoustic of a room....It is not perfect, but at this cost the change/ money ratio is spectacular....The change is there in near listening and in regular position, nullifying the belief that music in near listening position is a good solution in a non controlled room....
Always listen to timbre, not to the frequencies first.... Choose different timbre to compare....
How in the world a shungite chunk of 100 gram +an herkimer diamond glued on these metal buckets can change completely the sound ? Good results(my interpretation) or bad for other ears than mine, never mind, the true question is how crystals like H.D. or minerals like shungite can have a strong impact in the room acoustic?
My room has never been better....
Each weeks in the last year i learn something new.... Nobody teach me that, all my results were experiments in listenings.... Not tweaks....Tweak are a product ready made, all the same for all people rooms...
My device has been created for my room and ears..... But anybody can try them with varying materials to adjust the idea to his room and system....
My devices are NOT tweaks.... They are device adjusted and calibrated for a particular room, mine, they are born from a method of experiments in listening in the 3 dimensions, mechanical, electrical, and mainly acoustic....
Dont throw your money, Hi-Fi may cost peanuts, only sellers will contradict that and those brainwashed by their publicity and their own costly ownership.... Be creative and have fun listening....
Addressing vibration control of a component can be attacked different ways. I was happy with the way I was supporting electronics and speakers. Now this is enhanced further by minimizing the vibration of the electronic piece itself.
I have used various foam pieces of different density and size, shungite, and PPT mats. The "spring sandwiches" work as well, or better, than those, for me. I use them exactly in the configuration in which they were shipped, with no manipulation of the springs.
The room treatment with these paper on my door room is the beginning of the end of my room acoustical final controls and treatment...
Anyway nobody believe what i has discovered for myself...
Electronic pieces are SECONDARY in the search for sound heaven, contrary to ALL opinions on ALL forums....
The Main Audio problem is not upgrading a piece of electronic gear at all for a way better one.... The main audio problem is minimally or in the best way possible the rightfull embeddings of the electronic components....
Of the 3 important embeddings controls, the acoustical one is the more impactful at the end...
Remember that a "tweak" is an OBJECT, an embedding is a CONCEPT...
My embeddings methods is founded on listening experiments, NOT on the purchase of branded "tweaks"....
My system has reach his potential now and NO costly system at any price can no more impress me... Understand me here: any costly system will be better than mine, but not so far over mine than most owners would think it must be....And for the price paid (peanuts) it is me that will laugh at last....
When you listen to some instruments and they sound like real in all the room space the search is over..... It is clear to me now that most people perpetually unsatisfied by their audio system are unconcious that any electronic component must be embed... They know only how to replace one piece with another one, without never be satisfied...And most reviewers, pro or users, promote or foster the upgrading path at all cost.....I even discuss with some that deny any possibility to enjoy Hi-FI experience for peanuts... The upgrading myth is the oil of the audio business... But the main audiophile problem is not the next purchase....It is how do i reach the potential top level of which is capable my already well choosen electronic components, never mind their price....
Thats all....
I will wait for others experiences and experiments if some have any, apart for buying....Hype about electronic piece has no more great sex appeal to me.... I already have music....
:)
I am not in the urgency at all for any future upgrade....And remember that i never pretended that my piece of electronic gear were top Hi FI... Not at all, they are only good, but rigthfully embed they plays out of the average audio system level.. They gives me "Ron Carter in my room" like said someone who cannot fathom how in the world strings of crystals and aluminum paper or metal bucket and other completely insane devices can give any S.Q.
I think that doubling the springs at the 2 ends of the speakers would be better and an improvement because the removing of resonance would be facilitated...
I put 4 (chinese copy of the nobsound springs) boxes with the 7 springs on top of the speakers adding only a few pounds of concrete to my already heavy load( around 75 pounds ).
More details in the imaging and better bass without negative impact on the higher frequencies...
Now my speakers are between 8 springs boxes each...
Total success....
Very low cost....
I will say it for myself, nobody read my rant, and i am not modest here at all, but all my ideas for the last 2 years were complete freedom for me to liberate my creativity and cut this obsession about pricey electronic components or upgrade to give to myself an audio experience that is more than good....
Hi Fi cost peanuts my friends but most think really the contrary.....The only conclusion for me is that people had no clue about the way to embed their gear.... They only trust the price they paid..... I hope to be useful to some who will dare to experiment by themselves....
8 springs boxes (nobsound like but chinese cheap version) 4 under the speakers, and 4 on top of the speakers under around 70 pounds of load.... Then a difference around 10 pounds of the compressing load between the the 2 four sets of springs, because of the speaker enclosure load itself ...
This difference in compressing load is important and decrease the negative power of the standing waves of internal resonance of the speaker.... Anyway i am not a scientist but my ears are able to discern a more natural timbre and this change is impressive...
Second update: The last touch to my room treatment...
I add 2 large sheet of aluminum paper glued to the solid isolation foam that i was using at left and at right of my speakers on the wall....This reflective material addition was one great idea, cost peanuts and effectively increase all for the better the S.Q.
You dont NEED COSTLY MATERIALS to work the room treatment, you need only 2 ears...
For those who dont know it, nobody own the same ears than an other person, the structural dynamical hability to hears is different in all of us.... Then no ordinary computer formula can replace your ears....
You live with these biased ears like with your biased wife, use them like you use her, with the utmost respect and trust...
I am so pleased with my audio system now, then i cannot imagine that i can improve it much.... It is possible for sure but for the time being i cannot....
EMBED it all before UPGRADE, or pay the price....
I smile to any future upgrade... I dont need it at all....
Conclusion: Hi-FI cost peanuts if you believe in yourself and trust your 2 ears.... All contrary opinion is bullshit in my book, even coming from audio specialists....They all want you to throw money out of the window, or at least they has something to sell ... I am lucky to had no money to use for audio then i was in the obligation to trust only my creativity.... :)
If you dont have money and dream about audiophile experience, trust me it is possible and very fun to create it yourself.... No money need only trust in yourself....
Update: the double set springs boxes under load (8 boxes for each speaker+load)
I know now that only 4 springs boxes (nobsound or chinese one) under speakers would not do the complete job to improve the S.Q.
We must add to that 4 others springs boxes on top of the speaker under a compressive and damping load (for me concrete slabs 75 pounds) The difference between the compressing forces are equal to the load of the speaker on the first set, the second set being compressed only by the concrete load... This dynamical difference decrease the power of the stationary waves associated with the internal resonance of the speaker by producing a damping asymmetry of the compressing forces... ( i am no scientist i only try to convey my experience)
The precise tuning of the mass load must be around 1/2 pounds, to reach optimal S.Q. with a better timbre expression and a 3-d imaging....
This new mechanical embedding controls, the double set springs boxes under load, is totally amazing....
After my last experiment with springs, i realize that i made a wrong statement in this thread about the relative importance of the three embeddings ...
NO EMBEDDING is less impactful than any other one.... The contrary impression comes to the mind because when we haven’t reach yet an optimal controls of one or the 2 others embeddings...
Contrary to what i said in the past here, mechanical, electrical, and acoustical embeddings, all three contribute equally in a specific irreplaceable manner to the final S.Q.
Then their contribution is 33-1/3 % for each....No embedding is less impactful AT THE END...
The reason is simple, never mind the impactful power of acoustical controls and treatment for example, the contribution of a better mechanical control under the speaker for example add something that NO acoustical embeddings controls can do by itself alone.... This is true for any embeddings....
A powerful and non technical musical test for your audio system :
Take a copy of Bruckner 9 th symphony, by Celibidache in my case, And listen to it attentively...
Do you perceive the intricate dynamical geometry between smoothness and intensity, punctuated by silence ?....Do you sense easily the difference between, the brass family, the wood instruments family and the strings family, their slow interpenetrating dances and complex successive motives transformations.... Do you SEE it?
If yes, it is because your system allow accurate timbre reproduction and 3-d imaging that help to perceive the dynamical interplays between musical motives in a 3 dimensions space out of the speakers.... If yes, your audio system is then able to give you an audiophile experience indeed....
If not, dont panic and especially DONT upgrade anything tomorrow...
Read my posts about the 3 embeddings dimensions and controls....
Any relatively good system must give to you what i describe while listening Bruckner....
By the way dont said to me that you dont like Bruckner.... Say instead i never perceived this beautiful dynamical geometry and i dont have a clue about what you speak about.... I will say to you that probably you had never perceived these beautiful motives because your system is badly embedded and dont help you at all.... You probably dont need any upgrade, just some minute attentive listening concentration time in setting your embeddings controls for the months to come and trust me it is fun....And rewarding....
And you are lucky because without clues it takes me few years to figure it out....I has given to you some creative ideas in this thread about the embeddings then it will takes you months and not years..... Be creative and enjoy without throwing money in illusions....
2 "Golden Plates" + 9 Herkimer diamonds( mini sticks) on them, the copper side glued to the ceiling, between the speakers and my listening regular position, and connected to my " Bell of bells" wich is connected also to my my Schumann generators grid....
I never think that an improvement was possible from my last one but there is always place for improvement..... :)
Increase of S.Q. in all counts....Imaging is better and all the other qualities of sound....And that in my 2 listening positions, regular and nearfield....
I read in other thread many people complaining about useless costly "tweaks".... My device controls are my creation, cost peanuts, give an incremental increase in positive S.Q. each time....
No " tweak" can give more than a small increase on a count or on another, my device controls are not "tweak" they are not a singular device, they are the results of an ongoing set of listenings experiments and are mainly ALL linked together by copper cable....
I wrote in some thread that my actual audio system is unrecognizable and bear no resemblance with before and after my installation of my many device controls on the 3 embeddings...
Am i nut? Or is the crowd which passively consumes advertising never try anything of their own ? i will let you answer....
I was like that myself 7 years ago, but without money you create or you suffer with the frustration because you cannot afford the dreamed upgrade...I decided to create my own devices then....
Some even wrote that the only way is costly upgrade of electronic components...Sheep think indeed that the way to go is behind the last sheep....
What can i say?
Be creative and dont assume any opinion, except for precise technical point from specialist, not anythging more, because they will persuade you that it is nut or impossible by the book....
Do you think any acoustical engineer will try my unexplanable means to modify the acoustic of a room?
The truth is , hell no.... But i think even acoustical science is more complex than sellers of acoustical solutions think....
If i am nut i am happy like heaven resident with my music experience....
Be creative and inspire yourself with my crazy ideas..... You will have fun at peanut cost and a better, way better, audio experience, to the point like myself to smile about any future upgrade.....
When i started this thread, if you read my first post, you will know that i never intended this thread to be my personal diary about my audio journey...
I waited for others testimonies, but it seems that except for buying a new audio component, the only miracles were my own creations....
I must stay still and less vocal on all thread about my experience and experiments....I hate provocating negative reactions... But my journey is now too crazy to be believe anyway then...I would not believe my own thread if i was someone else , but being creative i will try some crazy ideas for sure.... I hope others will after reading me....
For my last control device, the 2 "golden plates" +9 H.D. on the ceiling, the audible effect is not subtle at all, but powerful, in regular and nearfield listening and remember that:
My device controls at the difference with a "tweak" are all cabled and connected one with another in a single grid....
This is the incremental steps ladder of my listenings experiments that guide me, one step at a time, to each addition of a connected ( by copper cable) new device....
"Tweaks" are secondary, costly sometimes, addition to an audio system... My device controls grid is not a secondary addition that add a little something to the S.Q.... My cabled grid of devices controls modify totally my audio system on a new level of S.Q.
My concept of the three embeddings controls comes from this ongoing listenings experiments experience....
The "golden plates" are the only device tough i use simultaneously in the electrical grid embedding control and in the acoustical embedding control...
Other many devices used are mention in this thread....
And the 2 only devices i bought new, i modified them, the cheap chinese Schumann generator grid, and the Nobsound chinese version of springs boxes....
I never envision to transform this thread in a personal journal, i hope that it was useful and fun for some....
A last remark: Most people when they speak about their "marvellous " audio system boast about the basic electronic component they have bought: dac, speakers, amplifiers etc...
I own good component also but i discover that never mind the components, the embeddings controls ONLY are the key to audiophile top experience.... No audio component can reach his potential higher S.Q. anyway without these embeddings controls grids....Even one million dollars one....
Upgrading urges, before embedding rightfully what we have, result from advertisement myth and tactic and illusion...
These last remark is the reason for all my thread and rants against some general opinions.....
I will call "Golden Resonators" my connected 2 "golden plates" with 9 Herkimer Diamond sticks on them glued to my ceiling...They are cabled to my Shumann grid generators...
Final results after 2 days of listening are fabulous for imaging and all other counts.... An improvement in the acoustical embedding across the scale, especially an increase in depth imaging...In regular and nearfield position...Each steps on the last 2 years has been a step to a better S.Q. each time proving incrementally to me the necessity of the embeddings controls....
After my application of a fine-tuned differential compressing force on the 2 sets of 4 boxes springs on each speaker under their damping load, my mechanical embedding is very good on the isolation count and on the resonance count....
I think that with these perhaps not optimal but at least minimal embeddings controls my audio system is working on another level from his point of departure.... My goal is achieved...
My most important discovery seems to be the "Golden plates" that i use for 2 embeddings, the electrical grid and the acoustical dimension...
Remember that my acoustical embedding controls are not a "tweak" they are all connected by cables in a singular entity through my modified Schumann generators grid....
A "tweak" is a secondary addition to an audio system, my embeddings controls are the soul of my audio system, without them i would think that my audio system is perhaps not trash but under par to most hi-fi one....I dont think that at all now....It is not the best for sure that money can afford, but trust me it is enough to listen to music and forget sound limitations on any musical style , even Bruckner Symphonies...
Acoustician dont use that kind of controls in a small room, generally they advocate passive room treatment, or bass treatment or to begins with "the bass problem" and will regard me "nut" to do otherwise and to do anything like the crazy experiments i was working with....Especially if they sell something.... :)
But anyway acoustic is a far more complex field that most think it is, even for some acoustician hypnotized by linear computerized equations....Our ears, especially the biased one so to speak, cannot be reduced to simple formulas for the times being... :)
But anyway the results are there: No comparison between the same speakers, dac, and amplifier, after the implementation of the embeddings controls and after....
To this day my humble 500 dollars system is the best i listen to, even with my actual speakers that are good but not on the same level than my past bigger Tannoys Dual concentric Gold....But an embed audio system is most of the times better or on a par with many costlier one...
Upgrading is an obsessive illusion, most of the times unnecessary, especially if the audio system has never been rightfully embed...
My journey touch the end....
My wife smile saying that i lie, she wait for a new idea coming from his nut husband....But she is happy that i never spend the 15 thousand dollars i dreamed to spend for audio 7 years ago anticipating my retirement....It is no more useful .... :)
2 small Copper bowls+H.D. cabled to the Schumann Generators grid
(buddhist offering copper bowls paid a few bucks)
The 2 bowls, which had the dimension of an open palm of the hand, are located almost straight up to my ears under the ceiling, and they are connected one with the other and also directly to the 2 "golden resonators" in the center of the ceiling, connected also directly to the "Bell of bells" and like i said connected to the S.G. grid also directly...
These interconnections are very important to keep all that balanced and makes of all my "tweaks" not "tweaks" but really only ONE acoustical device control in the singular and not a sum of disparate elements...
Acoustics is not only about absorbing, reflecting, or diffusing materials, but also about putting in place an "atmospheric" active control of the room through my active Schumann generators grid modified with "golden plates"+H.D. on each one (12 cheap chinese S.G. now )which i called the stones grid, the many resonators grids(different size and shapes), creating then ONE control device that balance all frequencies with their spectral content through an active control which is also a tagging, a kind of beacons grid, that regulate the information that the flowing waves gives to the ears....I am not a scientist anyway, i only want to understand what i create for myself that transform my audio system for a very ordinary S.Q. to another totally new S.Q. and better one at peanuts costs ...
These 2 connected copper bowl with an herkimer diamond in their center for balance produce powerful effect, audible in timbre perception and imaging at my 2 listenings position, nearfield or regular one....
I even not dreamed a month ago that i will go toward thiskind of improvement....It seems that more it is interconnected, more varied the resonators are, more the spectral content of the reflected waves of sound and the direct waves of sound are synchronised and gives me a spectacular more natural image and timbre...
Calling that a " tweak" is totally beside the point, it is not a relatively efficient SECONDARY"addition" to the audio system; it is a new way to recreate completely and reconfigure the acoustic of a small room , it is a PRIMARY fundamental tool for me without which my good system, without these acoustical, mechanical and electrical controls, is like a "trash" or some frustrating system waiting to be replace or "upgraded"....
I am very proud of my listenings experiments because no one anywhere has ever use that kind of tools it seems not at this level of improvement and at this low costs at least....
In audio experience, listenings experiments are more useful than money it seems for me at least.....
In this crumbling "old world" music help me a lot to keep my health and sanity....
3 more small Copper bowls+H.D. cabled to the Schumann Generators grid
One is added in the middle of the pair upper my ears, and 2 one feet from the wall at the right and at the left of the 2 "golden resonators" in the middle of the room on the ceiling...
Increase in bass, and in dynamic ....In the 2 listening position...
Sometimes i ask myself is it some place to new improvement?
I know that i reach some plateau, or will reach it, my speakers has their own limited potential S.Q.
It seems that i was not there yesterday.... Perhaps i am here today?
:)
Music help me a lot to see what all can see each passing days in the world now....
I listen to my therapeutic sound cd a lot.....A great audio system is very helping on that count alone....
If not, Bach is always free therapeutic by himself.....
I devise a wooden box with 9 cellular enclosure where i put 9 copper bowls+one herkimer diamond in the center of each for balance in the sound....
I put that between the speakers behind my listening position, on the wall, 2 feet from the ceiling...
Increase on all audible count: better dynamic, better timbre.....
I listen to my favorite brass ensemble, very good recording and very difficult for any audio system with non only trumpets but horn and tuba....(Empire Brass ensemble: music from Gabrieli )
And from my 16 feet square wall come a wall of sound like i was used to but with more timbre details and more living sound....
Samething with the piano that was in my room like usual but with way more dynamic all across frequencies and a better timbre....
I was surprized but only half surprized.... :)
Surprized because i already had a more than good S.Q. but not completely surprized because these resonating copper bowls +herkimer diamond are magical.... I already had 5 separate one on my ceiling connected by cables to my Shumann generator grid with great success...
Cost: peanuts....
Results: audibly astounding.....
Any audible positive result is astounding especially at low cost...
DONT UPGRADE, if not absolutely necessary, EMBED IT ALL BEFORE ANY MOVE.....
My last addition, the 9 copper bowls plate, even if located on the wall in front of the speakers behind my listening regular position( 9 feet from the speakers)AFFECT the S.Q. even in nearfield position(3 feet from the speakers)...
Then the widely held opinion that nearfield listening make unnecessary any acoustical treatment nor any active acoustical control is only that : a myth or a deceptive opinion....In a small room the acoustical embedding controls and treatment is more than important....
The copper bowls resonator plate is astounding after few hours of listening in the TWO positions, nearfield and regular...
Better high frequencies and imaging definitively and not only better timbre rendering....
I am in a new heaven for another time, is there an end?
Probably, but i don’t dare say it’s over now....
The only thing i can do next is to connect it to the Schumann generators grid tomorrow probably.... We will see....
Acoustical embeddings devices control are very powerful....
My 500 dollars system will now kick ass of much more costly one.....Even if the system i compare mine to is way more costlier, even if this system is better in some S.Q. aspects, it will not be so much better in relation to my ridiculously low price to impress me at all.... My ratio quality/price / S.Q. is over the roof.....
The diminishing return point is not where you think it is at all when your system is rightfully embedded....
The main problem in audio is not purchasing an electronic component, it is the way to embed it.....
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