@madsry I prefer the Amperex 6DJ8 tubes in my MHDT Balanced Pagoda over the stock (GE maybe?) 369 tubes and some sort of Tesla (I'm not at home to see which kind). The Amperex obviously requires adapters to work. I haven't tried any other tubes besides those nor has the DAC been modified. Not sure the Orchid will be hugely different but this is my experience.
MHDT Orchid or Lampizator Amber 3?
I’m considering one of these. Please share your thoughts, especially if you’ve heard them. I will be streaming 70% and CD’s 30%
Jazz, R&B and classical in that order are my listening habits.
My room is 20x30 and very nice acoustics.
Current system:
Dali Epicon 8, Luxman 509X, PS Audio NuWave DSD, Cambridge CXC, Shunyata interconnects & Nordost speaker cable
Thank you!!!
Jazz, R&B and classical in that order are my listening habits.
My room is 20x30 and very nice acoustics.
Current system:
Dali Epicon 8, Luxman 509X, PS Audio NuWave DSD, Cambridge CXC, Shunyata interconnects & Nordost speaker cable
Thank you!!!
368 responses Add your response
I realize that the main activity for this post is well behind us, but also wanted to say a big thank you to all who have participated and contributed such dense and valuable information. I have a couple of thoughts/ideas to throw out and will hope that some of the main contributors are still following this: I know Bill prefers the SS rectification, but has anyone tried or thought about a well designed external power supply with tube rectification for an Orchid? I don’t think Dan probably has time or interest, but thought about asking him about an external PS for the Orchid… (I’m also curious if anyone has compared a Modwright Elyse with a modded Orchid..?) Also, are there any mods/adjustments that would better support use of an adapter 6SN7 in a modded Orchid? Has anyone pondered a transformer upgrade both for different tube rolling options, but for improvements in general? Seems like the core circuitry continues to impress and could be worthy of more significant changes, whether external PS, transformer, or maybe other things.. Thanks in advance for humoring some more ideas. PS: I’ll be in touch soon Bill. We’ve talked before and I fully anticipate doing a mod package with you. |
Oh my! I took all mods listed in this thread and other threads concerning mods to the Orchard, and applied them -all- to a 2hand Stockholm 2 I got for a good price… Installed the Shuguang Treasure CV181Z through an adaptor….. The sound….. is like nothing I heared before… My Denafrips AresII is sold! Currently burning in the Shuguang Treasure CV181Z, 5 hours now…. |
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Well, I did not like the sound of these cv181 tubes in the Orchid. For me the sound was too forward and forced. A good audio buddy liked it however. The tranny is very small in the Orchid and these 6sn7 variants do pull more current. I have not heard of any issues using these tubes in the Orchid, but over the long term who knows? |
Regarding the ShuGuang Treasure vacuum tubes CV181-Z, are rated at 0.6 amps. Do you now think they might do damage to the dac? (In addition to not sounding right?) The treasure cv181 tubes aren't the same as the nos cv181 tubes, they are a 6sn7 tube, I don't know why they call them cv 181's. Report this |
Good evening everyone, first post on Audiogon. After following this thread with great interest, I finally picked up an Orchid and have done several of the upgrades mentioned by Grannyring (and others). I am enjoying the whole process of upgrading and hearing the changes and improvement so much so that I finally decided to post on this forum to say a big "THANK YOU" to all who have contributed. The Orchid is a great DAC and it is easy(ish) to work on. Changes done so far: R38, R52, R36, R54 Vishay Z foils 0,60W 100 Ohm R34, R58 -- Caddock MK232 0.75W 390K R37, R53 - Audio Note Tantalum 1W 4.7 K Jantzan Superior Z - 2.2uf Duelund CAST-PIO-Sn/Cu 0.01uF 630Vdc Various tubes - current favourite - Philips Miniwatt E188CC (7308) SQ with adapter. Upcoming changes: Ordered the V-Caps (arrived today) looking forward to hearing the diffierence R3, R4 - Ordered a set of Caddock MK23 and Amtrans AMRG Carbon Film 0.75W to try out. Possibly upgrade fuse to??? Really enjoying the sound now. I would be happy to live with the Orchid the way is now but I like to tinker and ask "what if I ..." Great stuff. Great fun Any other upgrade/change sugguestions are welcomed. |
Bill, I appreciate your answered my questions. I live in Canada and there is an experienced technician here who I suppose could make these modifications. I would like to avoid sending back and forth the unit but nonetheless I will think about your proposal as I trust your knowledge of this dac I will let you know. You can send a me message to detail what you are offering. About the cv-181 tube, at first, like others users, you seemed exited by the sound of this tube, what changed your mind, bad tube? some report these tubes are not reliable. |
Do not use the cv181 tube and adaptor as it is not the best combo for sound and can sound bright. No Duelund caps needed. Vcap Odams on output 400v 2.2uf. Add Vcap Cutf .01 uf as bypass for more detail and air. Not a must, but a nice option. Use a mix of resistors for best sound. Vishay Nude ZFoils for the 100R. Audio Note non-magnetic tantalum and Shinkoh for remaining positions. Careful desoldering the old parts. Easy to lift pads if not careful on this unit. Very easy! You can ruin the board. Use WBT silver solder. 1/2 watt resistors are fine. Audio Note leads on 1 and 2 watt resistors will not fit in the pad hole. I do these units for customers and at a price close to what you will do it for. I can do this for you if you are not skilled with desoldering etc... Other upgrades can be done for a tad more improvement. Take care. |
I bought the Orchid dac after reading this tread .I whish to make all the upgrades recommanded, (Vcaps,Duelund,orange fuse,resistors,cv-181) . I need some help to complete the upgrade :The main question I have before making these mods concerns the resistors .I cannot identify the brand of the different resistors. Audio Note ? Vishay ? As recommanded by Grannyring : R38, R52, R36, R54 -- designed value 100R 1W 1WR34, R58 -- designed value 400K 1W R37, R53 -- designed value 4K7, 1W Also my old Arc sp3 preamp has a 100ohms input what would be the best value (mf) for the Vcaps ? For the moment The sound of the stock Orchid is close to the sound of my LM 502ca , hope that the upgrade Orchid will best it . Thanks for all the good work . |
@quanghuy147 "I just got my own stock Orchid with WE 369 tube. The mid range from it is the best I have ever heard in years. Very detailed, smooth and musical. quanghuy147, try the Tesla 2C51/6CC42 tube in the Orchid instead (if) your main preamplifier and amplifier are already smooth sounding. The WE396 does have nice mids, partly at the expense of rolled highs and less dynamic, exactly +1 what @grannyring said about it. The Tesla 2C51 in the MHDT Orchid is right between the stock GE 5670 5-Star Triple Mica and the softer WE396A. If you want to brighten up and get back some detail on the top/bottom end, actually the stock GE 5670 5-star triple mica is not bad, but I prefer the Tesla with my particular tube preamp and mono block tube amps. It’s like spices on a meal. A little here and there, not too much. |
The WE tube is known for the mids, but does have rolled off highs and less defined bass. As far as upgrades. I have done some 14 units for Agoners now. Replace the output caps to Vcap Odam 2.2uf/400v. You can add Vcap Cutf .01uf in a bypass position for a little more top end sparkle and air. Replace 8 key resistors around the tube with a mix of Vishay Nude Zfoils, Audio Note and Shinkoh. You can uograde the fuse to SR Orange. If using USB make sure you have a nice cable. All of this will open up the sound and improve the resolution and articulation top to bottom. |
Hi everyone, I just got my own stock Orchid with WE 369 tube. The mid range from it is the best I have ever heard in years. Very detailed, smooth and musical. However, there are some areas that I wish it can improve: the dynamics, high and bass. Do you think that Orchid should be more dynamic, the bass should be tighter, and high should be more airy? I believe these areas can somehow improve by upgrades. Could you advise which upgrades are available for Orchid and which upgrade improves which area? Thank you for your input. Huy |
Hello all - newbie here. There's a lot of exotic sounding DACs in this thread - can I ask if any of your have found the Chord DACs competitive, or maybe even better, than some of these aforementioned ones here. I'm thinking along the lines of the more affordable Chord Qutest - reviews have always been consistently good - but many of your experiences here of all these DACs would be very useful feedback against the Chord. One example review here which really stands out: https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/hifi-review-chord-qutest-dac-review/ |
@caglioti Hi there, from the above list I've had the AM T3SE, Amber 3, and Holo May in my system for 7 day or longer home demos. Here are my brief thoughts. Feel free to ask for elaboration. Amber 3 - Bright and lively, energetic and dynamic. Too incisive for my system. Holo May - Extended, accurate, and incredibly even handed across the frequency spectrum. The largest soundstage I've experienced in both height and width. Extremely quiet with great tone & timbre. Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE - Holographic and real. The most flesh and blood sounding of any dac I've tried. Provides a more 3-dimensional image than any other dac. If I could design the sound profile of my ideal dac, it would combine the extension and frequency reproduction accuracy of the May with the 3-dimensional soundstage and realness of the AMT3se. |
Hi, this is a great thread, although older, and I hope some of might respond. I am wondering if anybody has compared Audio Mirror, Orchid, Amber 3 to a Terminator or Holo May. Seems the May and Terminator are pretty similar sounding, wondering if anyone could compare to the tube dacs? Thanks so much |
Sorry I just saw your post on the Amber 3. I ended up selling the Amber 3. It is a very good dac, but in the end just not for me. The longer I had it the more I found myself dissatisfied with my system. I found myself listening to music less and getting caught up with sound. I focused on its sonic feats of strength, but was unable to relax into the music. Sound over music. The Amber checks off all the right audiophile sonic attributes in terms of individual sonic attributes like bass impact, top end extension, resolution, vividness etc... it was all there. However, it never sounded completely right in my rig. Impressive at first, but over time it just did not connect me to my music. Over time I found it lacked top to bottom cohesiveness with the upper mids being too present and vivid. Too much of a good thing that I started to find distracting. In the end the upgraded Orchid was more enjoyable for me. I now own the Mojo Audio Mystique and love it. It is a very special dac that connects me to my music and brings full contentment. Hope this helps. |
@transcience Pitting the Amber 3 against the Atlantic TRP and Sonnet Morpheus recently, I have to declare the Amber fully competitive with both. Perhaps absent a little extension at the extremes relative to the TRP but the midband is at least as informative and seductive, if not mores This is really interesting considering the $5K price difference between the balanced versions of both Lampizator DACs. In your opinion is the Atlantic TRP not worth the extra price over the Amber 3? |
@grannyring Hey - did you ever post your impressions/review of the Amber 3 you (IIRC) picked up? If so, I missed it - please point me in the right direction. I'm curious how big the difference is between the Orchid and the Amber 3 (not that I could afford to pull the trigger at this point). Best regards and all stay safe - |
@gelle Thanks! I don't see it but I'll ping up and let him know what I'm up to. I 'spose everyone's doing what I'm doing except I'm late to the Orchid party. Mine should be here in a couple days along with a CEC TL5. I got the Tung Sol upgrade from Linear Audio (nice guys to deal with) so I can try that with stock until I can find something a little more ooh, la, la. Thanks for the response. |
@letch Yea they really do get gobbled up pretty quick on the F/S forums. I just installed the WE JW364A military type and it sounds amazing right out the box. I purchased from Brent Jessee audio tubes. If you don’t see what you want on his wen page, email him. I’m not sure he updates the stock real time. BTW the delay in receiving the tube was all on USPS. He shipped it the very next day. |
@gelle Thanks for your resposne. I realized (duh) I could contact them and they were speedy in response. I'm about to pull the trigger. Where did you get the tubes? Looks like a lot of different places. I also realized I could buy one and if it didn't work out it would likely get sold here pretty quickly. I'm going to go with the Tung Sol. Doesn't sound like anyone sticks with the stock tube. I'm looking for one of the Western Electrics as well. |
@letch I ordered direct from Liner Tube Audio and received the Orchid in 2 days. Very easy to deal with. I initially ordered with the upgraded tube and cancel at the last minute. I want to roll into a JW396A D getter W-E military tube , witch is en route. Having about 60 hours on the stock tube is really opening up. Really looking forward to the new tube. Should have been here about 2 weeks ago. Held up at USPS. |
I have been putting a brand new Amber 3 through it’s paces. Was using a Schiit Gumby multibit so my current baseline might not be sky-high but after trying a number of DACs including the Yggy and some NOS Dacs, with modest gains/differences here and there, the Amber 3 has easily exceeded my expectations so far ... and this is with limited burn-in so far. My first impression is that the sound is spacious, open, detailed, and dynamic. Bass is very solid. One would not think its a tube dac. (it’s running into a Line Magnetic SET amp). My Amber has their very new standard USB module - apparently based on JLSound’s I2SoverUSB vIII instead of Amanero. (Lucas wrote "USB - JL - Superb!" next to his signature on the sign off on the bottom of the specs/test page). My Gumby has the gen5 usb but I always preferred BNC SPDIF. But the USB on my Amber 3 is absolutely fantastic. And bonus points for fast, silent changes between various PCM and DSD formats (up to DSD512 native). Very happy so far. |
@ghasley looks as though we're on similar sonic trajectories again. Pitting the Amber 3 against the Atlantic TRP and Sonnet Morpheus recently, I have to declare the Amber fully competitive with both. Perhaps absent a little extension at the extremes relative to the TRP but the midband is at least as informative and seductive, if not moreso. |
I've read the entire thread and am very interested. My CDP died and I'm thinking about getting a CEC TL5 and an Orchid. I have mild tinnitus and I've been out of audio for a while as a result, but getting back in. This sounds like the DAC for me since I prefer warmth over neutrality and my collection has tons of poorly recorded discs that have sounded less than stellar on some high end systems I've heard. I'm more interested in music than "resolution." A few questions: 1. How long to get from the US distributor? Wondering if they have stock or if we're waiting on international mail. Which might be a problem at this time. 2. Where are people getting the tubes? Previously, I had bought tubes from Upscale Audio but I don't see the Western Electric there. 3. Should I get the Tung Sol upgraded one MHDT offers? Though that would be less interesting to me if it slowed down shipping. 4. As someone who would be listed in the "do not let near a soldering iron" class of individuals, is there someone that does the mods? 5. I listen to mostly rock, punk, alternative and a fair amount of jazz and classical. Wondering if it can keep the rhythm of rock music. Don't want something too 'polite' if that makes any sense. Thanks in advance. |
Quick post. About 5 hours into my new Orchid with standard tube (Western Electric 396A 2C51 D Getter JW military en route). Very impressed so far. Was using an Oppo 105 as may DAC for my Roon prior. The complete sound stage seems to have changed. Almost like listening to a live performance if that makes sense. I by passed the Oppo DAC and connected it in the Orchid via CoAx and my CD’s never sounded better. I was initially concerned that my HiRes files might not sound as detailed. Nope all sound amazing. Definitely warmer and very natural. Will report back after burn in and again after new WE396 installed. Cheers. |
kray, I recently bought an Orchid, grannyring modified it (at a very reasonable cost), I added the SR Orange fuse upon his suggestion, and also bought his Acoustic BBQ interconnects and USB (also at a very reasonable cost). I am extremely pleased with the results - a full bodied, quick, warm, detailed, analog sound, with excellent spacing and soundstage. I'm especially pleased with the lower mids and bass now sounding proper, having previously been a bit on the weaker side in many recordings as I use an 8 watt SET. Again, I cannot recommend grannyring's modifications or cables highly enough - very professional and well-executed. |
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