Metrum Octave versus Eastern Electric DAC

For those of us watching from the bleachers, please continue to give us your results and opinions from your comparisons. The DACs you are comparing seem to be in the sweet spot for price/performance/value and are great components which many of us are interested in, but don't have the resources to buy/compare/sell/return, so thanks for your efforts.

Morgan:

Enjoy the Metrum. It's on its way.

Have not heard of Sonic Imagery. Would be interested in hearing them sometime. In addition to the Dexas I also have Burson discrete opamps that have a completely different sonic signature. Where the Dexas are clean and crystaline in character, the Bursons have more meat on the bone with better bass.

Sonic Imagery seems to offer for this opamp a DIY kit.

Once again, a caution in regards to jumping to conclusions with the DEXA and Burson discrete Opamps for the EE Minimax DAC Plus; if you only have one rig and never want to change out anything again, sure you can claim whichever is "best". I have built multiple rigs since the article and have consistently found no predictable result in which combination or set of DEXA and Burson Opamps will be superior.

Case in point, I just put in new speakers two days ago and clearly with these speakers and components the Burson are more to my liking, although in the system just prior the NewClassD Opamps were my choice.

It's just not as simple as this or that is better. Thus I recommended the two sets so as to have a system-change-proof solution.

I too have been following this thread with interest as these are the two dacs I have been considering. I currently own the MHDT Havana with upgraded opamps and I'm looking for someing with a bit more detail and seperation of instruments. Please keep us posted on your findings.

Thanks,

Greg

Morganc: Apparently you will soon have three very well regarded dacs in your possession. I'm interested to see what you think...

Sibelius Just wondering...how many hours of burn in did you give the Metrum before selling it?

Devilboy:

Overall I listened to the Metrum Octave for about 16-17 hours over 6 separate sessions. The sonic character of the Octave was extremely consistant over all my listening sessions. The musical differences between the Metrum (NOS) and modded EE DAC + (SABRE) were very apparent from the beginning. I would venture to guess that the vast majority of listeners would be able to identify which of the two DACs they preferred rather quickly. I think it might be harder when comparing two NOS DACS or two SABRE DACS. Since my sonic preference never wavered over the entire time I compared the DACS I felt comfortable in my decision.

Greg, I was in the same boat as you and if you are a big fan of the Havana, as I am, then the Octave is right up your alley. I've had the Bel Canto DAC2.5 and DAC3, Calyx 24/192, and Berkeley Alpha DAC 1 and 2 since moving my Havana out of my main system, and the Metrum Octave comes the closest in terms of the beautifully rich, saturated tone, but does not overdo it as much as the Havana can sometimes and has the inner detail and transparency that Havana owners are eventually left wanting. My Octave is not broken in yet, but I peg the sound as somewhere in between the Havana and Berkeley Alpha DAC Series 2. It started off more like the BADA2 but is going more towards the Havana as it breaks in (a good thing to me!!). ALL THINGS CONSIDERED I am happy to trade the BADA2 for the Octave while saving thousands of dollars. Certainly there are tradeoffs but I am not left thinking about having the BADA2 back.

Whatever you do get a GOOD USB/firewire-SPDIF converter (or transport if you are using CD). I am finding that it makes a big difference in subtle ways (funny how that works) as I move up the chain.

Has anyone compared the Eastern Electric DAC Plus with Dexa Discrete Op amp to the PS Audio PWD MKII?? I am considering making a change but would like some feedback.

i had the eastern electric dac (original version) and i have the ps audio dac.

the tube in the circuit colors the sound. the ps audio dac, depending upon digital cable can sound harsh.

I have the Eastern Electric DAC Plus with Dexa Discrete opamps but have not had the opportunity to compare it to the PS Audio PWD MKII.

With that said, I cannot foresee a time when I'd wish to replace the EE DAC Plus in its current iteration of configuration.

Pulling the tube and deploying the Dexa's delivers a sonic purity that renders all of my previous, numerous searches in the land of Dac's fruitless.

Eugene81,

Your statement hits my feelings about the Havana on the head. I love the tonal qualities of the dac but I wish at times I had more detail in the music. The opamps take the detail up a notch but I find myself wanting for more. Thanks for the detailed comparison.

Eugene81: Forgive me if you've already mentioned this, but what USB/spdif converter are you using? I had the Mach2Music HiFace2 but ultimately returned it because I was getting "clicks and pops" during playback. According to the advice of some members, I was supposed to increase the buffer size. I've asked those members how this is done, but have yet to receive an answer.

I'm about to compare my minimax plus with Burson duals combined with Dexa singles with the PS Audio Perfectwave MKII tomorrow. I'll be running the PS Audio directly, and the Minimax through a transformer based passive preamp to a dual mono Hypex Ncore amp. Various highly revealing speakers will be used in the audition. I will post my impressions.

Devilboy, I am using a Wavelink HS with the Havana and a Weiss INT203 with the Octave. Also had an Audiophilleo 2 and John Kenny Mk3 modded HiFace (v1, not Hiface 2). Buffer size does matter. What software are you using?

Greg, you may want to hold onto that Havana. Some straightforwards mods can greatly improve the sound. There is an enormous thread on Head-Fi. I have had OIMP V-Cap output coupling caps in for a while and it indeed did add a good deal more detail and transparency, but I have an R-core transformer on the way and will probably ditch the OIMP for much better CuTF V-Caps as well as Schottky diodes and some tantalum resistors. A couple of guys over there have replaced the 2uF output caps with .47uF CuTF caps and get a huge improvement. I recently put the CuTF caps in my Almarro A205A MkII and it still blows my mind how profoundly this mod has transformed the amp into one of the best I've ever heard, period. ESPECIALLY in terms of natural timbre and bass definition.

As good as the Metrum is, it still doesn't have all of that Havana "magic". I am wondering if the mods can bring the Havana to the level of the Metrum in terms of detail, transparency, and precision. I will report back once the mods are done. Maybe start a new thread.

Eugene81: I'm running PureMusic. Is buffer size controlled/changed in iTunes or in PureMusic? I assume PureMusic?

Very interesting findings, guys. It sounds like the Dexa opamps really brought the EE DAC performance up significantly. Unfortunately I did not have them in my modified first gen dac to offer insight.

Yes the Metrum is definitely more laid back then the Sabre32 which I found could be slightly analytical at times, but also very exciting with the right material. Make no mistake the modded first gen dac was excellent!

I see the first gen minimaxes go cheaply these days--can the Dexa opamps fit in it to see what the fuss is about for myself in comparison to my Octave?

Ok after a full day of evaluating my minimax plus with burson\dexa opamps, with the PS Audio perfectwave mkII, I have come to an conclusion. The minimax with any tube\opamp configuration simply isn't in the same league. In fact after listening to the perfect wave all day, switching back I find the minimax to sound very generic and offensive. My wife wishes I hadn't made the comparison, because now I simply need to make the upgrade. Not to knock the minimax. It's excellent for the price. The perfectwave is 3x the cost, so this extra performance should be expected.

You may want to also consider the NAD M52 DAC. It's the equal of the PWD MK2, with differences mostly to do with synergy rather than anything else.

I recently sold my PWD MK2 to a local Audiogon member who has it paired with a Yamaha A-S2000 integrated stereo amp. It sounded better in his system and his Harbeths than it ever sounded in my system with NC400 mono blocks and Selah Tempesta speakers.

On the other hand, albeit after only a day of listening, my very recently acquired NAD M51 sounds better direct to the Hypex NC400s than the PWD MK2 did.

Highly recommend both the PWD MK2 and the M51.

the problem with all of the comments made about the minimax is the lack of specificity regarding what tube was used.

i owned the minimax. it was never offensive, and with the right tube, i preferred it to the ps audio power wave dac, which i own.

the reason i sold the minimax is that i have some cd players which i prefer.

i would like someone to explain, logically, how a solid state component can out perorm a tubed component, when the latter's sound is tube dependant, and can vary greatly with the tube selected.

i have always found the better tube dacs to exhibit more realistic timbre than solid state dacs.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give the NAD a listen

Mrtennis-
Did you replace the minimax? If so, what did you replace it with?

Last Friday I had the opportunity to compare my Metrum Octave to my buddy's AMR DAP-777 in my own system and the results were somewhat surprising. The Metrum had a more forward presentation and was a bit more textured while the AMR was sweeter and more laid back. Generally speaking the AMR was preferred with acoustic or simple vocal driven stuff (i.e. civil wars) but I actually preferred the Metrum with blues, rock and male voices!

In both cases the differences weren't huge and as my friend put it, the two units were too close for comfort.

The transport was my Bolder modified Squeezebox Touch with Bolder (music railed) PSU. We're planning on doing the comparo again at his house with his rig, and the transport will be the LampizatOr Transport (heavily modified Sqeezebox Duet with tube spdif out).

i sold the minimax, but did not replace it, as o own sevral tubed cd players, and the ps audio pwd and pet.

After reading Gophers response the Metrum must be similar to the EE Minimax +
I'm comparing the EE to the AMR DP 777 with the same conclusion
Hope I'm doing the right thing getting the AMR..........

After reading Gophers response the Metrum must be similar to the EE Minimax +
I'm comparing the EE to the AMR DP 777 with the same conclusion
Hope I'm doing the right thing getting the AMR..........

I have the Metrum in the system now and am enjoying it a lot. I have not A/B'd it against the EE Plus as I'm waiting to break it in properly. I also just added a new Pre-Amp into my sytem, so the enjoyment factor could be the Pre or the Metrum or the synergy between them. Right now I can say that the imaging, sound stage, and overall tone has never been better in my system.

Right now I am using a Mac Mini-->Twin Impact Dac/Converter (Dac off) w/ Kora PSU-->digital cable-->Metrum Octave-->Allnic L-3000A Pre-->Art Audio Px-25--> Zu Defintion mk III.

I'm also trying to put together a shootout in the next few weeks between the NAD, the Metrum, the EE Plus with Sonic Frontier Opamps, and if we can find a PWD we will add that in the mix. Will keep you updated.

Abruce,

Going from memory my modified EE DAC had a different presentation then the Metrum. The EE DAC being more resolved and dynamic, maybe a little less body (could be slightly analytical) while the Metrum is more harmonically rich and organic.

Morgan, You're using that Twin Imapact w/ Kora just for a SPDIF out? Seems complicated--any reason you did that instead of a Jkenny or Audiophileo? Has it proven a lower jitter solution?

Morganc, I see that you do not mention the type of digital cable you are using. Reason why I ask is that I just demoed a Stereovox Ultra digital cable and it elevated my digital front end to very significant levels. Honestly, one of the most significant upgrades I've ever done.My Rega DAC really sound so good now.

Gopher: I'm using it due to the generosity of a friend. I had the Metrum and want to compare it to the EE Plus before spending more$$$.

I am actually just using an optical cable and despite that still loving the Metrum. Can anyone comment on a Coax cable vs a BNC adapter for the Metrum? I've read that you need the BNC to get the most out of the Metrum. Does anyone have experience with this? What cable are you guys finding useful?

Black cat Silverstar75 is great value. I converted my metrum to BnC..... Simple and reversible. Worth doing as the RCA on the Metrum is generic and not 75ohm so will always be the weak link.

Naggots may I suggest the Stereovox Ultra. I just did a shoot out between the Veloce,which I've owned for a year, the Silverstar 75 and the Ultra. Hands down the Ultra was significantly better. I believe you are not really hearing your DAC until you hear it with the Ultra, I was not.I'd not eat for a week if that's what it took to afford the Ultra....it's that much better. Chris is coming out with a new updated connector for the Ultra which will even increase the bandwidth more.

I'm using a Wywire LTESpeed digital cable which is fantastic. It is terminated with Xhadow RCA connectors which are a true 75ohm unlike other RCA connectors and don't want to change this cable...

I wonder if installing a nice aftermarket RCA plug would have the same effect as the BNC upgrade provided I keep things 75ohm?

Any suggestions?

I'd imagine a 75 ohm RCA chassis plug would be the same, maybe harder to source tho? In my case the Metrum is preceded by a Jkmk3 (bnc out) so keeping it all bnc was logical. The Silverstar has those adapters for RCA but it's more secure and direct contact via the 1/4 turn bnc.......

I did some digging and there are a couple true 75ohm RCA jacks, but they're pretty darn spendy!!

At $86+ shipping is the WBT-0210 NextGen RCA socket uses conductor material made of pure copper, and is direct gold plated. The signal pin hole is a spring loaded WBT double prism contact, while the ground/return portion utilizes a patented double-wave contact. The socket also uses a Teflon dielectric with torsion proof mounting. Tightens from outside using the included three-hole counter nut. Transmission bandwidth is 1 Ghz, and the socket has a characteristic impedence of 75 ohms, meaning this is an ideal socket for digital components, as well as analog components. Also available in a solid silver version.

And at $58+ shipping is the Eichmann HC-XTC PhonoPod uses a full 20 micron direct gold plating over pure copper. One of the most intriguing parts of this design is that it is a true 75 ohm connection, which means it's perfect for digital SPDIF inputs and outputs. Will accomodate chassis thicknesses to .19". Please click below for more information

Anyone know of cheaper options or at least sources for single rather then pairs of the sockets? For digital I only need one...

I am going to have a Eastern Electric DAC Plus with the level 2 modifications-$2K mod with Hynes regulators hand built in Scotland)to demo. It might be the only one completed at this time, not sure. I should have it this Friday and will have it for a couple of weeks to try. I will be comparing it to my PS Audio Perfect Wave MKII. I really like the PWD MKII but it can bite from time to time.

In about three weeks I will have a Lampizator Level 4 coming to demo. Stereomojo raves about this DAC.

The winner stays.

Bill at Morningstar states the Dexa Discrete Omp amps make a big difference in the EE DAC Plus.

Has anyone compared the EE DAC Plus or Lampizator Level 4 to the PS Audio PWD MKII?

Morganc,

Can you compare and contrast these dacs: Metrum, Minimax+ and Tranquility? Any comments/opinions would be appreciated. thanks!

I'm waiting on an Audiphileo 2 and a Coax Cable to give a proper comparison. I'm currently using a Digital Optical Cable and I think it is
Limiting the Computer Upsampling out of the Metrum. After I receive them, we will be doing a DAC shootout including the NAD Dac. We will be sure to post our impressions.

when you compare dacs, there are really four variables, the transport, the digital cable and the analog interconnect cable to the preamp.

it is important to specify the other links when making a comparison.

just saying the metrum is better than the eastern electric without naming what cables and transport are used is insufficient.

making dac comparisons is almost impossible because of the other variables.

if you say dac a is better than dac b, you assume that the other variables don't count.

Hi Morganc, I have started my dac search with Metrum Octave, which is currently burning in at about 200 hours in my system. I'm very interested in your dac shootout with NAD M51 and EE+. I'm also waiting for Oppo105 to come out (it is attractive to me because I'm sure Modwright will offer tube upgrade for 105 later on).

All this talk about the Metrum Octave has me intrigued. I'd like to hear one without committing to buy new. I'd love to compare it to my Bel Canto DAC3. I had an original EE DAC and liked it quite a bit, but didn't feel it offered an improvement over the Bel Canto. The EE was stock, but with a Telefunken smooth plate. Briefly, I ran it direct to my amp, but heard a definite roll off in the low end. That was to be expected with its incredibly high output impedance of 22k and my amp's unusually low input impedance of 24k.

I live in the Bay area (Berkeley). I don't expect anyone local to reply, but it would be warmly welcomed.

Hi Mingles. I'm in San Francisco. Shoot me a PM.

Morganc, I sent a couple of messages to you through Audiogon, but haven't heard back. Please check your inbox

/ Thankful: would you give us an update of the comparisons between the EE MinMax Dac Plus with Dexa opamps, the Lampizator Level 4 and the PS Audio PWD MKII?

Thanks!

To other EE MiniMax owners: do you have a good experience upgrading other components? E.g. the output capacitors (if so, Auricap or Mundorf) ?