I have several McIntosh-amps, but, as you can see from my posts on audioasylum and audiokharma, I had some difficulty getting from McIntosh the service I felt I was entitled to. In the end, I only got because I raised it on audiokharma´s McIntosh-forum, and most fellow McIntosh-addicts took my side in the dispute, so Ron Cornelius finally gave a hand. I think that Bryston is indeed the way to go for the idustry and customers. Note that Danish high end manufacturer Densen has just started to give a lifelong guarantee for their units. I can accept a simple, non-transferable warranty from Sony or Panasonic, for products that cost a few hundred dollars. A Mark Levinson or McIntosh is a premium product, sells for premium prices and should have a premium warranty. In addition, Macs three-year-warraty is not the most generous to begin with. But McIntosh has great product and is on the upwsing with the se glowing reviews in TAS and Stereophile, so they will not change their warranty policy. |
I have a McIntosh for years and I have delt with McIntosh service and tech people on several occassions. I couln't find words to give a higher recommendation. They have always been patient, informative and willing to provide me a level of service I don't think you could get from a five start Mercedes dealer. Example I once bought a used MDC4 processor and it had a digital processing glitch when I used it for a convertor. I called and within 10 minutes I had a RA number and they updated it. I told them I bought it used and the response was, "I don't care we built it and we will correct our errors". So don't listen to the folks that expected too much and were dissapointed but rather those expected nothing and received everything. Great Products, Great Service and Great People that describes McIntosh in my book. |
I know we have some lawyers that frequent AudioGon, I'd appreciate hearing from them regarding Mcintosh's stance on Ebay. It seems absolutely surreal that they can insist you either modify your ad, or they will have your ad pulled. You're a private individual choosing to sell a personal item, in my mind they have absolutely no right sticking their nose in my business. I would be big-time pissed off if a manufacturer tried to tell me how to sell an item that belonged to me. It's none of their damned business.
I've also heard of manufacturers who outright refuse to repair items that were not bought from their dealer network, even when the individual is quite happy to pay for the service. Enough of this stupidity. Folks, vote with your wallets. I know Bryston offers a true 20-year transferable warranty and there are likely others. I suggest that we do not buy a new piece of gear unless the warranty is transferable. Manufacturers are free to set their marketing and support policies any way they would like, we're free to not adhere to their policies and buy from their competition. |
Regardless of the MAC warranty policy, since they forced the ebay ad situation, IMO they crossed the line into censorship.
There is an authorized MAC dealer in town & I could buy anything I want & get great customer service, as that's the kind of dealer they are. I've dealt with this particular dealer for over 25 yrs., so know they stand behind their customers. It's not a question of MAC being unfair with their warranty, as they are the manufacturer & can do whatever they want with it but more a question of them stipulating policy where they shouldn't, i.e. the used market.
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Just some minor clarifications, Mcintosh will force you to put their non transferable warranty policy on Ebay regardless of how it was purchased, including AUTHORIZED dealers. Their view is, they are protecting second hand buyers. Another view is, they are using previous Mcintosh owners to promote their new products. This is subject to interpretation. Failure to comply will result in your ad being deleted from Ebay and relisting will cause your account to be suspended. If you are comfortable with this practice, then you should no problems dealing with Mcintosh. |
Let's make life real simple. If you don't like Mac's policy, buy another brand. Now some of my opinions. Buy the amp new for 8000, you get a warranty. Buy the same amp used for 4-5000, no warranty BUT you just saved thousands. Apply a couple hundred of that for a fix IF it might need one. Yeah it would be great if the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc owner was covered but they're not, and if that's a problem, BUY ANOTHER BRAND. Try to see the big picture. If their dealers don't sell their product, there won't be any McIntosh. I don't blame them a bit for setting it up this way, in fact I think it's pretty smart. They want to stay in business and every Mac owner wants them to. Fact is, they've been in business for 50+ yrs. That will help you resell it. |
Who's taklking about shipping damage? Manufacturers won't cover damage from "misuse, abuse" etc. to anyone, even the original owner. The point we're discussing is transferability of warranty obviously without abuse from shipping, dropping, etc.
Automobiles have transferable warranties which are products that suffer more abuse in a day than an audio component will in a lifetime - temperature extremes, bad roads, crappy drivers, etc., plus they consist of thousands of components, sensors etc, but yup, if your within the warranty coverage you're covered, even if you bought it used.
Forget what warranties are supposed to do for dealers - the manufacturer already included the cost of warranty in the price you paid for the unit new, so short of damage inflicted by an owner, or UPS or FedEx, or any other caveat the manufacturer can come up with, there's no good reason why warranties should not be transferrable. |
Wow, wow. i'm kinda shocked that anyone even thinks a warrenty should be transferable. yes, i love to buy used gear and get a warrenty to boot! but from a mfg's point of view, why should they have to cover all that damage that occurs from shipping? what are you guys thinking? buying used gear is usually a steal. you know the unit's rap, your getting a steap discount, your not buying new from the mfg. and now you want the mfg to cover what is mostly (mostly, not entirely) shipping inflicted damage (either immediate or the slow slide), give me a break. GO CRY SOMEWHERE ELSE.
as far as Mac is concerned: my smaller downstairs system is all MAC (MR85, MC352, CR16, MC7205) and yes, I have had two issues. Both issues were handled promptly, and without question from my authorized MAC dealer. No hows, or no whys, just straight back to MAC, and straight back to me. With huge apologies coming and going. One issue was an acknowledged firmware bug in the MR85, and the other was shipping damage inflicted upon the MC352.
I am completely satisfied with the quality and service from MAC.
I appreciate the ability to buy used gear, but I don't expect the mfg to jump in and help me. Warrenty transfers are designed to help dealers with tradeins, not with Augiogoner's buying used gear. The list of mfg's still willing to transfer warrenties is getting slimmer by the day, and I fully support that slide, as we abuse its original intent here on this site.
To slight a mfg for not tranfering a warrenty is just bad taste. |
Every company puts a "warranty reserve" into their pricing so they know their potential outstanding financial obligation, so if you sell before the end of the warranty period, Mac, or whoever, gets a freebie against their warranty reserve. They must love it.
It's probably hard to reasonably defend such a practice, but they get away with it.
Thank goodness for Bryston et al. |
I guess the proof is how long a company can hang on with or without warranty transfers. Three or four companies mentioned above have done that but not as long as McIntosh. If they didn't take care of things they wouldn't sell and thus go out of business. Some companies do not last longer than the warranties they issue. The jury on Pass Labs longevity is still out. I do hope they (like Mcintosh) will survive for a long time. |
Thanks guys. I love the products. I just kinda like to think they appreciate their customers and will take care of them after the sale. I actually don't mind companies making good profit, but I do expect to be treated well when I pay well. Pass Labs will transfer warranties. They will actually fix things for free (minus shipping)beyond their warranty period, and regardless of where you purchased it. That is indeed rare. I honestly think the non-transferable warranties are designed to protect their dealers by discouraging buyers from buying on Audiogon. |
PLEASE!!! If you were to cost out every component that goes into a piece of "HIGH END" gear, factor in labor, R&D etc. we should be getting LIFETIME warrantes. My hats off to companies like Magnepan Bryston and Adcom who still have margins that are based in REALITY. Their warrantes are average their products WAY above average and they manage to stay in business year after year. I guess they must know something that the big boys don't |
Not honoring a warranty that should be transferable is not necessarily bad customer service. At least with Mcintosh you can get things fixed, replaced, restored, and helpful info on touble shooting. Try that with some big name brands, particularly imports. I can tell you some stories about that sort of thing even when there is a warranty. |
I have bought an MR-85, MHT-100 and an MC-252 all from a McIntosh dealer, Satement Audio in Knoxville. Great service and all three pieces have perfpormed flawlessly. If something were to happen, I need only schlep it back into Statement and they take it from there. Couldn't be easier. I am going to upgrade to an MHT-200 soon so that will be four. All pieces have been bullet proof, flawless and a joy to own. |
The guy from Russia managed to get McIntosh to solve his problem....
What happened in the other case has no bearing on how you will be treated if you buy your stuff at an authorized dealer.... |
Most of the companies that are in high end do not honor or do "transfer" warranties to the new owner. The very few that used to do it, no longer do so. You have to look at the McIntosh case of not willing to honor a warranty for someone beyond the original purchasing honor as a fact in the industry. One cannot but wonder why companies that stopped going the extra length for their after sales support to be considered outstanding. When it comes to it, there might be a couple of reason behind this. For one, that a company cannot afford to upkeep their products to the full satisfaction of the warranty or the time of the warranty, because of economic considerations. All companies that are in high end are corporation or work like one. A corporation is driven for profits, and God save that corporation that has not bettered their last year's or last quarter profits, for they risk massive or excessive punishment of their stock shares. In this light, they cannot afford to fix items and send them back (at their expense) no longer....The best of the high end items are ridiculously overbuilt, making this shipping back costly and very open to damage (AKA: UPS or any handling service.) I guess even we are to blame for this, because most Americans look into profits and bottom line when it comes down to our portfolios or stocks...so, we pay the price. Now, another reasoning behind this is the abuse that a very generous warranty or for that matter return policy would attract...for example, have you heard the news of those customers that have been "blacklisted" from several stores because they are notorious for their manipulation and abuse of return policies?
In the other hand, I have heard of some people who did get outstanding service from Mcintosh, for things like having it fixed for free without the need to digging up ownership records etc....But it seems to me that that was something that no longer might hold true. I remember reading about this about 2-3 years ago on a webzine or site.
We live in a world where people feel a sense of entitlement that this "entitlement" often leads to abuse, which has the sad after effect of spoiling the priviledges of those that did not take advantage of it. |
