MC cartridge upgrade for a Schiit Sol (Denon dl-103r) help!


Hi there!

I’m being in the market over a month for a new cartridge (AT95EN) for my Schiit Sol. I know there’s a ton of options out there like Nagaoka, Ortofon, Sumiko, just to name a few, I knew that MC are more expensive than MM cartridges (I know there’s exceptions) but I found Denon 103R with great reviews and a "affordable" price ($300 more or less) and that’s when I started doing my research about MC cartridges, some people were talking about you "need to make sure your tonearm is compatible with the MC cartridge that you want" they talk about tonearm mass and bunch of other stuff. My question is, How do I know my tonearm is compatible with Denon dl-103r cartridge?! I checked schiit sol manual and does not have any technical information about tonearm weight/mass. I will be using schiit mani preamp.

Thank you ahead for your time!
Edwin
erivera1990

@erivera1990

 

Thanks. I think you’re going to love the Mani 2, especially with your Technics MK2. Denon 103s are great cartridges. I had the Denon 103R, but the cantilever broke off when I was dusting a previous turntable it was on. I didn’t have the protector over the cartridge, because I was about to play a few albums. Big mistake. I still have it here and will be getting it retipped soon by Joseph Long after the holidays. The Christmas holiday always puts a hole in one’s pocket the size of Grand Canyon, lol (especially with having 30+ nieces/nephews, great nieces/great nephews).

Keep me updated on how everything turns out and how it sounds.

Take care, and happy holidays to you and your loved ones.

Shaun

@smb1978 

 

It sounds amazing!!! I bought the Mani 2, most likely I will be selling my Schiit Sol turntable. I'm planning to upgrade... Meanwhile I have a Technics MK2 and I will test it with a Denon 103. I will let you know how it sounds! 

 

Cheers!

 

Edwin Rivera 

Hi @erivera1990,

The Moon 110lp V2 preamp has some pretty impressive specs.  I wonder how it compares to the Mani 2 in listening tests.  No I don't have a YouTube channel to share my vinyl.  I was tempted to create one but see that YouTube uploads - particularly the sound quality of audio - get seriously degraded via its compression.  All the effort I would put into creating a video upload with my vinyl would, to me, be wasted by the less-than-optimum audio quality that comes out of it.  I know that Tidal has the best audio quality, but I believe that's only for artists (or creators of songs) to upload - not so much for end-user consumers who want to share their vinyl.  I might be wrong on that, but that's my understanding of that platform.  But if you want to hear a sample, here is a link to an uncompressed .wav file to one of the songs I recorded: https://we.tl/t-eDzMsOdKHn 

For the level of gear  you have,  consider spending $400 for a Soundsmith  Otello moving iron cart.

It will be compatible with your existing phonostage and give you a taste of what nicer cartridges can do- MM or MC.

I wouldn't spend much on a cart  until  you drop considerably more money on a phonostage and everything else in your setup.

https://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/fixed-coil/otello

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I keep one as a backup  for my $2K LOMC. 

 

 

@smb1978 I bet it sounds beautiful! Specifically with such a cartridge! I putting together a technics mk2 (one of those deals I couldn’t let pass) and as it right now I’m debating between the mani 2 or Moon 110lp V2 preamp, more expensive compared to mani 2 but also it seems that has more options. Do you have a YouTube channel that I could appreciate your setup?

Hi @erivera1990,

I have since upgraded to the Schiit Mani 2. It is much better than the Mani 1. I re-recorded a few records with the same cartridge and headshell that I used with the Mani 1—just to see if there was any difference. There was a definite improvement in the quality of sound, particularly the soundstage (much wider) and noise level (way quieter) as the music played. Additional improvements with this model include increased gain settings, better S/N ratio and THD specs, more impedance and capacitance loading options, and low-pass filter switches.

I currently have the ART9XA on a Pioneer PLX-1000 turntable I recently bought, and it sounds great with the Mani 2. Pioneer actually made a few improvements on the PLX-1000 (as of 2022). This includes a heavier turntable weight (from 28.9lbs to 32lbs), better wow flutter (from 0.1% to 0.01% or less), and a thicker rubber turntable sheet/mat. The effective tonearm mass is 12g. I plan on making some additional improvements by damping the tonearm. But, overall, I’m pleased with what I hear out of this setup.

Regards,

Shaun

 

@smb1978 I don’t know why but I just noticed your notification, thank you so much for your explanation, right now I’m putting together a second stereo system, and I was looking into schiit mani 2 with a MC cartridge.

Hi erivera1990,

 

I’m responding a little late to your post, but I purchased a DENON DL-103R recently and use it with my Schiit Mani (at a gain of 59dB).

Interestingly, although it has a recommended load impedance of 100 ohms or higher for this low-output moving coil cartridge, the data sheet that came with my DL-103R shows a load impedance of 47K ohms - highlighting a 0dB flat line curve from 1K to 20K Hz (see attached).

https://imgbb.com/gJYDRXC

It also shows the left channel output at 0.31mV and the right channel output at 0.30mV, so apparently each cartridge has its own nuances, although the general/average output is deemed to be 0.25mV.

I called DENON just to confirm if that information was correct, and was told it is. Just to make sure, I experimented with load resistive plugs at 100 ohms and 200 ohms verses the 47K ohms that was tested on the data sheet provided with my cartridge. And, sure enough, the cartridge sounded much better, much more "alive" (it had a wider dynamic range and sound stage) at 47K ohms.

To make the soundstage even better, I purchased a Sbooster BOTW AC16VAC Power Supply.

By the way, Mike Moffat, from Schiit Audio, also says he uses the DL 103R (and the DL 110) with his Schiit Mani for daily spinnin’: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-mani.737555/page-4 (Post #58 of 143, page 4)

So the DENON DL-103R should work fine with your Schiit Mani PROVIDED that your tonearm has a mid to high effective mass (mine is 20.61 with a 9.75-gram headshell).

Another interesting thing is that I recently saw a YouTube video comparison between the DL-103R and the almost $200 more AT33SA, via a blind test. To my surprise, the DL-103R had a more dynamic soundstage, even though by all measures/specs "on paper" (including having a better stylus), the AT33SA should have been the clear winner.

That goes to show that just because a cartridge has a better stylus doesn't mean it will be a "better sounding" cartridge. Obviously, a lot more factors come into play such as its construction and materials used.   

 

Kind Regards,

Shaun

Well... Sadly I didn't realize that my phono preamp(Schiit Mani) it's not a good match for a Denon dl103r. I need to get a different phono preamp because I don't want to use a LOMC transformer...
Actually Denon DL-103D is much better than 103 and 103R. 

The benefit of 103D is nude Elliptical stylus tip and higher compliance suitable for wider range of modern tonearms.
What's is the lifespan of the 103r before retipping? Keeping in consideration clean records and clean stylus? 
I like the DL-110 and the 103r. I have both, I like both. Very musical carts for the money. I've re tipped the 110 twice and went to an elliptical on the 103 the first re tip.. I'm so use to their sound. Slight edge to the 103r it depends on the music too.. Salsa 103, rock and roll the 110. 

I'll tell ya what Soundsmith Carmen II Med comp is a real keeper too MI cart. Everything sounds good with it and the new ZP3.. I'm impressed.
First MI cart I've taken note of.. I'm no expert though..

12-15 grams for all three

How do you listen to Tony Williams or Stanly Clark and not use vinyl?
Bass heavy, but vinyl perfect, go figure.. 

Peas, Carrots...:-)

Regards
If your tonearm truly is 13g, that's moderate and excellent fit for Denon 103R. And based on the math, it puts you in the sweet spot of roughly 10-11Hz resonant frequency.

It should be noted that most Japanese companies measure the compliance of their cartridges at 100Hz, so you almost double that figure to use in any RF equation.

There aren't too many other MC carts in that price range that would also work well with your set up. Ortofon MC Quintet Red is the only other one I can think of.

But really, this is all based on numbers as a guideline. I would also email Schiit directly and ask them what kind of MC cart they recommend. A company like that would get back to you.
What It's considered a "light mass tonearm"? I read online that my tonearm effective mass is 13 grams, can I add one of those tonearm square weights (3 gram) to compensate? Between the headshell and the cartridge? 
I am not a lover of the Denon DL103 or any of its variants, but it is a simple matter to increase the effective mass of a low mass tonearm to suit a low compliance cartridge. If that’s what you want.
Denon DL-103R is a low compliance cart not meant for a light weight arm.
Chakster, around here I can get a Denon DL-103 retipped for $150, VAS is only about an hour from me. He uses an elliptical tip so it's an upgrade as well. That brings the cost of a MC cart inline with a MM cart. I know you don't like the Denon carts but they do have a big following and for good reason, they are very musical and not fatiguing in any way.

BillWojo
Go for the Denon103R! This is still the budget-priced cartridge to beat! I have one on my Pioneer PLX1000! I use it with the Bellari SUT into the mm stage of the RGR 4 preamp. Don’t worry about stylus wear - get and use Stylast before playing a side. This is a lubricant that will greatly extend diamond life! Ken Micallef’s review of the Sol/103R is spot on!
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Your arm is definitely NOT for low compliance cartridges designed in the 60s for superheavy tonearms. Modern tonearms are for modern mid compliance cartridges.

The life span of Denon conical tip is too short, if you think it’s affordable cartridge then take in count the cost of the stylus retip after ~ 500 hrs. Also you need high gain phono stage or SUT for MC!

There are MUCH better vintage MM cartridges than vintage Denon 103 (made today just like it was made in the 60s).

Stay with MM , user replaceable stylus is amazing option. You just need a decent MM, ask in direct messages if you need help, but $300 is too low budget for a decent MM.