Nottop,
My original MGIIBs went to my dad and he still has MMGs in his condo. We do not have children so my dad always benefits from my upgrades. Nice keeping the Maggies in the family isn't it. :-) |
Nice comments and I agree with you - though the choice is a matter of opinion. My cousin has B&W 800 D's and the sound from his system is WONDERFUL.
It's just not a sound I would choose.
And he would not choose my sound.
I think I purchased the first set of Magneplanars sold in Illinois (this was a while ago). And they still sound terrific (in the home of my son.)
The next to last Maggies I bought was the 2.0 series and they still sound terrific in the home of my other son.
When I get the 20.7's my 3.5's will go to one son and there will be a drift in speakers until my older Maggies end up in the home of a granchild.
I guess if you have a large enough family you never trade in your Maggies. |
I am waiting for the 20.7s to arrive at the local dealership so as of yet I have not heard them. I am auditioning the 3.7 in a couple weeks tough.
Always loved Maggie's but before spending 14k or so, I wanted to listen to some non-panel speakers. Yesterday got to hear the Wilson Sophia 3 and Saaha as well as Avalon Indra and Isis .
I soon discovered how so much of this "hobby" we love is all about what we value both sonically and financially.
The only speaker of the 4 I listened to that blew me away was the Isis which is 78k full price, although had floor models for 50.
The Wilson's in general were not my cup of tea, so having said that the 28k Sasha's seems like it is over priced BECAUSE OF MY LISTENING PREFERENCES. My bottom line is "can I or how much does it allow me to enjoy the music" and obviously I like the huge Maggie sound stage, which differs some imaging, which the Wilson's did very very well.
The Avalon sounded more musical to me but the smaller Indra did not have quite the "weight" I would want.
Where. I am going with this is that 28k is over priced if you don't have the sound, one may call 78 or 59 k over priced versus a 14k Maggie or whatever even if the sound of the more expensive speaker sounds better in some ways but at 3-5times the cost
Now having said all that, for my listening pleasure I think/expect the 20.7s to be quite a bargain and the 3.7s an out right steal |
I have listened to Maggies going back to the 80's and as recent as a few months ago (with top of the line ARC gear). I appreciate their speed and their light airy soundstage. Their sound is similar to the Quad ESL's to me with the Quad's being just bit more magical. Still, I come home and hear my system and find it more satisfying. Maybe not quite as fast, but there is more meat to the sound, more heft. The Maggies soundstage is impressive, but always seems semi-transparent whereas my home system makes the soundstage more solid feeling. I like them, but just never enough to put out the cash to own them. The Maggies do a couple of things exceptionally well, but I would not say that they are the best speakers ever- even at their price point. To each his own. |
Didn't like the 20.1's why would I like the 20.7's? |
Josh is well aware of the 'third rail' nature of talking about panel vibrations and the various theories.
Magnepan vibration theories abound. Wood perhaps absorbs vibration which may 'reflect' back from the MDF and cause problems. That's why I'm not a big metal fan, too, since metal will reflect vibes.
At least Aluminum doesn't ring like Steel. And most of what I don't like about Aluminum wouldn't matter using it in panel construction, anyway. Lack of fatigue strength and poor tensile strength, for example. Don't bother telling me about special Aluminum alloys. I suspect Magico uses a 6000 series since it is easy to work.
I'll bet Corian would give your budget a hernia. |
I think you can pour sand into the Mye stands, I imagine that would do a good job of getting rid of any ringing.
It's worth noting too that both YG and Magico use aluminum enclosures. Apparently, it's easier to control the ringing than it is to damp wood. (Of course, enclosures are more demanding of the material than frames.) Jim Winey is on record as having said that metal frames would be better for Maggies, though I don't think they're a practical DIY project for most of us.
Another possibility is Corian, some dipole manufacturers say it makes a better baffle than wood and MDF. |
without getting into controversial territory, it is clear that Maggies are a DIY dream come true.
Stands? have fans Crossover mods? for sure Bi/Triamp setups? absolutely Active vs Passive crossover? yes Full wood reframe? on the table Sound damping? You should see the posts!
So, the Mye stands are just the tip of the 'berg. The overwhelming opinion is that panels, which are built to price constraints, benefit from any number of DIY projects. All have fans.
Not that is matters, but even if they DO help, I'm not a fan of bridgework stands. Too much metal, which rings. I'll go with a full reframe, when the time and finances permit. A good, solid, Mahogany should work wonders and have many advantages over the MDF which is stock. |
Clavil,
The changes typically attributed to Mye stands include better bass with increased extension (this has been measured, not huge but clearly measurable) and greater midrange clarity/imaging. |
Sounds like you took too many pills. |
There's help out there if you want it, all you have to do is ask. |
Sounds like you didn't take your pill. |
LOLLOLLOL Hey Mrschret, you sound like a 13 year old boy. Your moaning, groaning, and crying over my last post. Oh poor man, you just can't take it. I set up a trap and you fell right in it,LOL. Do you know why I set the trap? I set it to see if you have maturity. Your whole post just reeks of immaturity all over a stupid pair of speaker stands. My God man, do you own stock in the company or what? Now here's where the immaturity really shines when you suggest that our friends have a disability. OMG, how lame can you get. For you to even suggest something like that is absolutely incredible.
Read what you wrote. You start off by saying your not going to say anything about our friends and then you do say something which is so immature it's pitiful . You don't see me saying anything about you or your family do you? do you know why? because I know better, I wouldn't go in that direction. Just because you like the stands and I don't doesn't mean I'm right and your wrong, it just means you like them and I don't, and to suggest that I am concerned about you wasting money is crazy. Why would i care? and why would I care if you can afford them? Do you think I don't want the stands because I can't afford them? LOL LOL LOL
I don't care if you want to put your maggies on mye stands, her stands, or his stands, there is nothing wrong with doing that if you truly believe it does absolute wonders for the sound and at the same time puts the speakers on a pedestal. I tried it and found it not very interesting for me. So, here I am now saying there's nothing wrong with anybody putting their speakers on a stand but because I don't care to do it Mrschret this will just eat you up and turn you into all different colors all over a stupid pair of speaker stands. Hurry up Mrschret and write back, the suspense of what your going to say is killing me. I just want you to know something, if your maturity kicks and you either write a nice letter or you don't write at all I will lose $50.00 on a bet. So please write back so I can win as this is some of the best fun I'm ever having since I joined this wonderful site of Audiogon. Keep it coming Mrschret I could use a fifty. LOL LOL LOL.
Notice, I didn't forget to laugh, I am laughing so hard my stomach is killing me. And now for a real shocker, just to be a real gentleman about the whole thing, I wish the very best to you Mrschret, your family, and your stereo system but why it seems to frost you just because I don't care for the stands is just plain silly.
by Exron |
Hey Exron...take a pill. First, I could care less about your Yukon. Second, I never said everyone has Myestands. What I said was that you were the first I'd ever read to not like what they did. As to those that are for sale, your wrong. There's a pair of 1.6's that are selling and the stands are not included. Might that be because he's buying 1.7's and the stands will fit those? That might be why many of them are being sold with stock stands. Because they're moving up and the myestands will still fit. And of course your dealer is going to tell you they don't help. That's like admitting their product has a flaw that can only be fixed if you buy an aftermarket product. Unless your my dealer who admitted right up front that he knows the stands make a big difference. And when I almost bought the 20'1's he did say that he couldn't give me anything for my 3.6 stands cause they won't sell them in the store. I'm not going to say anything about your friends. I'm sure they're all very nice folks, like yourself. I will suggest though that they all get their ears checked. Oh, and don't be too concerned about my blowing all that money on the stands. I can afford it. Oh, almost forgot....LOL |
Clavil,
For me the significant improvement came when I angled my 1.6's forward to achieve a perpendicular between the top to bottom middle of the speaker with my ear. This produced a really significant increase in clarity and focus. The sound was just less smeared, if that makes sense. The idea I guess is that this angle provides the best time alignment. I got the stands for my 1.6's used for $200, and it was a no brainer that it was well worth the cost. I liked what they did enough that I didn't think twice about ordering a new pair at $605 for my 3.7R's. Now, I suppose one could tilt the speakers without the Mye stands, but they would not be stable at the angle required for me, and I am a tall person. |
could somebody describe or try to describe which changes the myestands produce in the sound ?
thank you |
Exactly Nottop.
I really value the opinions expressed in the forum. They are an extremely important contributor to my decision about what to audition and occasionally what to buy if an audition is not possible. I have found much better guidance here than in TAS or stereophile. Ideas expressed here have prompted me to do some things and try some things that seemed implausible at first, but proved to be true in practice. But the final judge on everything is my own ears.
What concerns me a little is when our own strongly held opinions are presented as absolutes, and differing opinions are discredited. |
But it was interesting to read about the only contrary opinion to Myestands that I've seen.
I ordered and read a complete book about how to evaluate and purchase good stereo. One of the comments was that dimmable bulbs will ruin your sound. So I turned them off and listened and listened. Nada. Zilch. Zero.
I think if I did a test and said
"listen to that music"
and then
"I've turned those lights out - now listen to the music"
My goodness - next thing you know someone will want me to waste a ton of money on power conditioners.
So it's great to read a carefully considered and informed contrary opinion. |
I agree with you Brownsfan, you wrote a very good paragraph. |
Exron,
I'm guessing Mrschret will be able to find at least 11 people who swear by the Mye Stands. What is the point? I have no problem with you not liking them. I have no problem with someone insisting they are the greatest things ever. There is a reason that we have an abundance of high end manufacturers of equipment making everything from flea watt SET's to kilowatt SS monsters. It is because we value different things. Its not because I'm right and you are wrong. What can be very right for me can be very wrong for you. It happens all the time. Some people like BMW's, some people like Audi's. So what? Chill everybody, this is supposed to be fun. I don't need anyone else validating my decisions about buying equipment. My own ears tell me yes or no, but they can't tell you what you are going to like or dislike. |
Oh Yes, my Yukon is a lot smaller than it looks. Why do I have to keep explaining everything to you? First, I had to explain about why I only took six songs to the dealer and now I have to explain the length of my cargo area in my Yukon. Didn't you see where I put in LOL ? I was half joking with myself as the box slid in to the cargo area of my Yukon. I was talking about just fitting the 3.6's in the back because the length of the Magnepan box is 74" and the length of my cargo area is not much longer so I was slightly sweating bullets as the box was being pushed in by me and the sales person hoping the tailgate would close. I was only having fun with the story, but you said you put yours in your car and now your saying they went in a 4Runner. OK, car, 4Runner, whatever, but any car would be tough. OK, lets laugh about it, right? LOL. Everybody wants to get their Maggies home by themselves but not everybody has a Yukon or a 4Runner.
The Stands, Oh everybody loves those myestands. They are so popular that almost everybody who buys a floor standing maggies calls this company and orders a myestand. As of this date (Wednesday 1-25-12) there are currently 10 floor standing maggies for sale here on audiogon, most with pictures and all the listings show the speakers with the stock feet, not one maggie is standing on a myestand.
When we got ours we tried and we tried. We even invited friends over to help. Our maggies with their stock stands and then on the myestands, back and forth, and back and forth. On and off, off and on. Four times with and four times without. A total of nine people heard no discernible difference to justify to keep the myestnnds for their high price, so back they went. I thanked my two friends and four of my son's friends for all their help and time. I'm not busting anyone's chops here. If you like your myestands and you think it's worth blowing that kind of money on them, then all the power to you. For crying out loud, even our dealer at the time said it was not necessary and the the maggies sound fine as they are. We agree, and saved some money.
After all, right now, there are ten sellers listing theirs with the stock stands. I can't wait to see the response to this letter as I know you won't rest until you have the last word. And yes, one is going to hear what one hears, but in this case, OH, I forgot to say in this very very rare case nine people, only nine, not 3, not 5, not 7, but 9 people for a total of two weeks heard no big difference. Please remember, this is just my opinion. I'm not saying that your myestand made no difference in your system, I'm just saying for my system the myestand was useless.
Come on, come on, hurry up and write me a nasty letter in response to mine. I mean, I know you have to have the last word and you have to write to tell me how wrong I am. maybe you could even criticize my friends? While your at it, why not mock my yukon about how big it is or how small it is. Let's get this battle going. This is going to be great LOL LOL. |
All of this is exactly why I would never buy speakers without hearing them. Clearly, people are coming to very different conclusions on the 3.7's. I've already articulated my thoughts on the 3.7's vs 3.6's etc, so I won't repeat what I've already written. As for the Mye Stands, I had a pair for my 1.6's and I have a pair for my 3.7's going through customs as I write this. The ability to tilt the speakers to achieve a perpendicular between the top to bottom middle of the tweeter with ear level makes an enormous improvement in my opinion. Others may hear things differently, and I'm not going to suggest they should hear what I hear or their conclusions are invalid. Those who are considering the 3.7's should let their ears be their guide. Too bad that is not possible with the stands. As Mrschret points out, those who prefer the Magnepan stock feet are fairly rare, but again, people hear what they hear. |
Your Yukon must be alot smaller then it looks from the outside. I had no trouble putting the 3.7's in the back of my wifes' 4Runner. As for the stands, your the first person I've ever read on any forum that didn't admit that they did make an obvious improvement. There has to be a first for everything, I guess. And to the 3.7's not being very much better then the 3.6, somebody must think so becuase Magnepan can't keep up with the demand for the new 7 series. They even tell you on their website that business is very good. They can wait. |
Oh, I had a feeling someone would be upset about something. In any case Mrschret I decided with my wife and son that we should only use two of each of our favorite tracks so as not to be a hog at the dealer. I was just being polite. We were there listening to the 3.7's for 3.5 hours as the dealer provided his own music for us after we listen to our own. I would have loved to see how you managed to fit the 3.7's in your car because I couldn't do it, I had to go home and get my GMC Yukon and drop the back seat. The 3.6's just fit and I was barely able to close the tailgate LOL.
As for the myestands, we did give them a chance and all three of us did not like what they did. We also feel that they are a complete waste of money which can be better put towards more music. I had those myestands for two weeks and much prefer the maggies without them and I do know about their ability to tilt. The Maggies actually look better without them. Mrschret, I'm not here to battle with you, I'm just stating my opinion. If you think, or even if you know that the 3.7's are better than the 3.6's then good for you, and if you know they sound better on a myestand, great, I'm happy for you, I don't. To us, it's just not worth the money,I don't like how they sound, nor do I like how they look. If you look at the response from Josh358 where he says people have to decide for themselfs, he's right. I have decided for myself and you have decided for yourself. Let's drop it. I also do not feel the need to go into great detail of what I listen to, or how far away from the wall the speakers were or anything like that I was just merely stating that I thought the 3.7's were really not that much better than the 3.6's and for owner's of the 3.6's not to feel they should quickly sell to get 3.7's
If one has 3.6's keep them, if you don't then get the 3.7's because they are great, but getting the myestands in my opinion is just not a good idea as they do nothing for the great maggies in sound quality and they look terrible.
I'm not telling anybody what to do, I'm just making suggestions. Good luck to all. |
In regards to Exrons' opinion about the 3.7's and Myestands it sounds like they wern't given much of a chance. I mean 6 songs at the dealer made up your mind? When I bought my 3.7's my wife and I listened at the dealer for about 2 hours. When we decided that they were worth the effort I said that I needed to hear them in my home, in my room with my equipment. About 30 mins later they were in my car going home with me. I had them for 5 days. I listened to my 3.6's on my myestands and then made the change. No, never listened to the 3.7's at my home without the myestands. They did amazing things to the 3.6's so why would I not use them on the 7's? I should mention that the myestands have adjustable feet that actually tilt the speakers ever so slightly downward if you want. I don't know where you saw them another way. I've had them for about 3 years now and they've always been tilted forward/downward just that little bit. After 5 days, a total of about 15 to 20 hours of testing we realized that the 3.6's didn't come close. Actually, it was more like an hour of serious testing and the rest just enjoying them. Upon their return, I bought the 3.7's. They are on myestands. When the dealer has a pair of well broken in 20.7's I will try them and if a purchase is made I'll immediately order up a pair of myestands to put them on. |
The 3.7 already has a quasi ribbon woofer, they changed both the woofer and the midrange. The 20.1 already had a quasi-ribbon midrange, the 20.7 apparently has a quasi-ribbon woofer as well.
Re 3.6 vs. 3.7, I think that's something people have to decide for themselves. Some have raved about the difference. Others perceive it as incremental. I don't know that there's any way to make the decision for people, it's something people have to decide for themselves. |
This is in regard to what Teajay said about the new 3.7
I have owned and still do the 3.6 so when the 3.7 came out I had to hear what it was all about. It was me and my wife and son who went on the trip and took along our own music to play on the new 3.7 When we were all done listening all three of us agreed that the 3.7 sounded great but not enough to let go of our 3,6's The 3.7 to us just sounded different but not miles and miles better than the 3.6's as all these reviews will lead you to believe. What's next for the 3.7 ? They now just turned the mid-range driver into a ribbon when it could have been done when the 3.6 first came out. So now when the 3.8 comes out maybe it will have a ribbon bass driver and then Magnepan will not be able to call it a Magneplanar, they will have to call it a Ribbonplanar LOL. In any case I would not recommend 3.6 owners not to get all feeling bad about owning the 3.6 when the 3.7 is out. Here you have three people who took the test with each of us listening to two of our favorite songs from two CD's for a total of six tracks and all of us agreed that the 3.7 was most definitely not significantly better that the 3.6
I have to agree with about 99% of the above letter written by Teajay. He really hit the nail on the head. The other thing I would advise new Maggie owners is not to invest in the myestand. I tried it and I did not like what it did to the sound. The Magnepans are designed to stand straight up and that is the way it sounds best. The mye stand tilt's the speaker and aims the sound over your head.
My son is a engineer and I am pretty mechanically inclined and to us after looking over Magnepans stand that came with our 3.6, there is to us no better way to have a Maggie to stand up. There is nothing wrong with the way Magnepan makes their stand. It works, and it keeps the speaker standing straight up as magnepan intended. I reall do not want to get in to any arguments with fellow member's here on Audiogon as this is just my opinion. Thank you Audiogon for allowing me to respond. |
If there are separate drivers with separate terminations then the 20.7 can be bi or tri amped. Of course we are talking modding the thing. Stock it may have just one set of speaker posts and an internal series xover. This does not mean you cannot take the speaker apart and wire it any way you want. You could use a seriously tweaked analog or digital xover and get as crazy as you like. The first thing you would want to do is build some serious damped and braced frames/baffles for them. The magnepan stock frames are not very serious. |
I've heard excellent things about the W4S amp with the Maggies. Caveat being that I haven't heard the combo myself. Not sure about the pre. |
How is W4S pre & amp matching with 3,6 ?
thanks |
I had 1.7's and felt that, among other postive things, they sounded sterile compared to my 1.2's utilizing the same Pre amp and amp (W4S products).
I traded up to a dealer demo pair of 3.6's at a steep discount and a one year full trade in value option.
The warmth is back, plus I obtained all of the other attributes of the 3.6's over the 1.7's.
My point is I agree with Djexxx that an updated model may not necessarily sound better once you get past the "its new and sounds different" stage. |
Once the 3.7s were introduced it made little sense to jump into the 20.1 unless they were used at an attractive price. There was little doubt that the QR technology would be applied to the 20 series within the year. No manufacturer is going to announce near future changes at the expense of current inventory or near future sales. Caveat emptor as they say. I plan to listen to the 20.7 when they become available; however, I purchased the 3.7s a year ago without listening first to compare w/ my 3.6s and I would not go that route again. |
I have 3.7s (6" narrower and 6" shorter) in a room with a 13' front wall and an 7.5' ceiling. The back wall is 40', of course, so I'm able to pull them a good 5' from the front wall with no issues. I think the sound is amazing.
And I'm still considering upgrading to the 20.7s.
But then, I have problems.
Your room is plenty big for 20.7s. Should sound amazing in there. |
So, if your listening room is a basic 'shoe-box' , 17.5 w x 26 l with a 9' ceiling 20's should fit quite well? |
I think the limit is front wall and ceiling height. WRT the latter, the simply have to fit. The way they transmit, it's pretty much directional so you have limited interactions with side walls and floor/ceiling. WRT the former, you want them 4-5' off the front wall in order for the back wave to not "smear" with the front wave. Ideally, they should be 5-6' apart to really get the sense of scope, but I've seen 20.1s with as little as 4' between them, inside edge to inside edge -- quite an imposing sight. |
My dealer has a trade in policy. Within one years purchase date you can get full price towards a more expensive Magnepan model. A very attractive trade in value is given once past the one year anniversary. The year I bought my 3.5's was the same year the 3.6's were released. I traded up at full value. 12 years later, I received a nice trade allowance on the 3.6's when I bought my 3.7's. Once the dealer has a 20.7 demo I will be taking a hard listen at possibly moving up again. |
Can you 20 owners make a comment on the absolute minimum sized room that you feel would properly accomodate the 20.1's or 20.7's? |
Always a risk when you buy anything! Amazon, for example, inevitably releases a new Kindle a month after I buy one. Some tech companies, e.g., Intel, price new stuff at a premium to milk the early adopters. They also cripple microprocessors to force them to run at lower speeds so they can charge huge premiums for the uncrippled ones.
Personally, I prefer a pricing model that's straightforward and fair. I think it's also important to remember that the difference between loudspeaker generations isn't huge. Some people describe the difference as subtle, some don't, but it isn't as if new models are so improved that you can't continue enjoying last year's model because something new is out. Some of the best audio advice came from a friend who advised saving money by buying "last year's state-of-the-art." Guess I've taken that to extremes, because my "new" Tympani IVa's are something like 25 years old! |
This looks like an incredible deal to me.
I have my order already placed.
I would like to thank Roger - who is replacing my stereo amps with monoblocks (since the 20.7 does not support bi-amping)
My only regret is to the people who have recently purchased the 20.1's. Suddenly a new speaker is available that is so superior. Yet they just paid almost the same price for a speaker that likely has reduced resale value.
Is this fair to these people?
If the 20.7's came in a price of 16,000 or more then this would not be a problem. Two different speakers at two different price points.
It seems to me, to be fair to the recent purchasers of the 20.1's that Magnepan should increase the price of the 20.7. |
For those who have been asking, it seems that the 20.7's are now available for sale, and the price has been announced:
Members of the Press,
We apologize to our loyal customer base, but we had no choice.
With the 20.7, we had to raise the price more than we would have liked.
The 20.7 MSRP is $13,850 pair. That is an increase of $855 from the 20.1. But, we think the improvement in sound will mitigate any resentment of this regrettable price increase. |
My 3.7's were delivered Friday before Xmas. I have about 35 hours on them. They have a considerable way to go. But even at this early point they outdo my 3.6's of 12 years. When I brought home a well broken in pair for demo I was amazed at how much better they were, hence the purchase being made. My room is 16' wide where they stand and about halfway down opens on an angle to 19' towards the back. Depth is 23' to a 14'by 4'high wall with kitchen beyond and 5'openning to short hallway. 9' ceiling. After commenting on the 20.7 the installer admitted that this room would be about minimal in width for them but would work ok. I will be very anxious to hear them and might be doing a trade up in the very near future. |
They could probably increase bass extension -- the Apogees, for example, had more extended bass than Magnepan speakers of the same size. But AFAIK, doing so would mean increasing plate separation and magnet strength so the fundamental resonance could be moved lower without diminishing efficiency, and that would increase the cost of the speakers. I assume that they've decided that the cutoff frequencies they use, and the tradeoff between baffle size and plate separation + field strength, offer the best bang for the buck. |
Brownsfan, You are right that semantics plays a large part in the matter. For me an incremental change happens when a speaker retains its basic character and is improved. I believe that is the case with the 1.7 and 3.7, and I believe it will be the case with the 20.7 as well.
I owned the 1.6QR for years and can't recall all the times aside from shows that I've heard the 3.6 in dealerships and at shows. My impression at the shows where these speakers were revealed was that they were not vastly different from their predecessors. I agree that the bulk of the improvement is in coherence.
When I reviewed the Eminent Technology LFT-8A and did the conversion of the speakers to the LFT-8B I was shocked at how one change, replacing the tweeter with an upgrade, made the entire speaker sound different top to bottom. Keeping that in mind I felt I heard similar improvements from the 1.7 and 3.7 which could be caused by incremental improvement.
One reason I would suggest that this is incremental improvement is that the bass has not been improved appreciably in terms of extension. The design of the speaker has always dictated a shallow low end and this has not been addressed; I believe technologically it cannot be ameliorated or else Magnepan would have done so. If that had been altered appreciably then I would be much more inclined to call it a sweeping change.
To be fair, I enthused about the change from the Legacy Audio Focus HD to the Focus SE and felt it was a profound enough difference to merit the cost of the upgrade. The driver set was the same but tolerances matched to +/- .25dB, and the cabinet was new as well. The tweeter received a silver wiring upgrade and Solen caps were used. Finally, the M/T drivers were set higher in the cabinet than with the HD version. The low bass response of the SE version was improved by 2dB.
It is possible that if I had the 3.6 and 3.7 or the 20.1 and 20.7 in my room I would conclude likewise.
|
Part of the problem I think is that "incremental" is a relative term. What's huge to one person is small to another. But I'd say in the case of the 3.7's, the typical reaction seems to be more in keeping with yours -- the improvement is more than incremental. But I've heard someone else say as Doug did that he thought it was in incremental change.
One thing that's true, the .7's have major changes -- quasi-ribbon rather than wires, single-pole crossovers, improved power response, better midbass. So technically, there's a much bigger difference between a 3.7 and a 3.6 than a 3.6 and a 3.5. Magnepan has made it clear that they weren't going for an incremental improvement on the 20.7 -- Wendell Diller was quoted as saying they wouldn't release it until they could make a significant improvement.
But even if the difference is bigger than it is for the typical new model, there's still going to be an element of subjectivity in the description. It's entirely possible that two people will hear the same exact sonic changes, and one person will say "nice but incremental," while another will say it's the best new thing since sliced bread.
Ultimately, I think the only thing we can do is listen ourselves, as you did. |
Doug, I'm trying to understand why people are having such different reactions to their auditions of the .7 series. I wonder how much of this comes down to semantics. I'm asking myself "At what point does an incremental improvement cross the threshold and become something more?" Can you provide more specifics about your audition of these speakers?
I auditioned 3.6's with some pretty decent Electrocompaniet equipment. Yes, they sounded very good. I was struck by how similar they sounded to my 1.6's. The 3.6's had more at the frequency extremes, and the presence of the ribbon tweeter certainly added much over the 1.6's. These were demo's that were well broken in, driven by a decent front end, and in my judgment were worth considering as an upgrade given the modest cost of swapping my used 1.6's for demo 3.6's. I would have called the 3.6's an incremental improvement over my 1.6's.
My audition of the 3.7's came 4 weeks later, in a different store, and my reaction was very different. I won't recite all the improvements, it would just be a repeat of what you have read in the reviews. I placed an order the next day and have had them in my home for 3 weeks now. The 3.7's in my home perform consistent with my expectations based on my audition, and I remain extremely pleased. I had no problem justifying a 5K investment on the 3.7's vs a 2K investment on the 3.6's. For me that does not constitute an incremental improvement but something much more. For me, the 3.7's were more than an incremental improvement over the 3.6's and my 1.6's. |
Despite the hyperventilating expect an incremental improvement, as I predicted with the 1.7 and 3.7. |
There's an awful lot of gushing in speaker reviews! Part of that I think is just that there are lot of good speakers out there these days. Part of it is that some reviewers have tin ears. :-) But that of course is just my personal explanation of why some people have the temerity to disagree with me.
Anyway, since no speaker is perfect and they all have different strengths and weaknesses, it seems to me that the only way you can make this decision is by listening yourself. Clearly, the .7 Maggie are highly regarded by the critics, as well as the people who have bought them. And it seems that the Tannoy is highly regarded as well. For the kind of money we're talking about, I'd go out of my way to hear them both (the Tannoy and the 20.7, I mean, since you have the budget).
I've seen so many debates with people who insist that the speakers they own are great and everything else sucks -- while some speakers are obviously better than others, there really is a lot of personal taste involved in the choice as well. |
The best speakers in the world?
Apparently, the same guy, Steve Guttenberg, CNET, praised so much about the Tannoy Kensington on May 1, 2010 while he also praised the Magnepan 3.7 on Dec 29, 2010 as the best sounding speakers.
Which one is which one; and it all depends on the advertising dollars, right?
Is there anyone out there can comment on the two: Magnepan and Tannoy.
Disclosure: I own the Magnepan 3.6 and currently listening to the Tannoy, if for a change.
I have Magnepan speakers for the last 20 years and never have any intention to change until now.
Please advice |
Word is you can't bi-amp them, they use a series crossover like the other .7's. |
I hope Gifted Listener in Centreville gets them early on so I can hear both the 3.7 and 20.7. If the 20.7 can be bi-amped that would give them a huge advantage in my situation.
I still have my MGIIIAs which have been refurbished a couple time over the years ( My original Maggies were the 2Bs).
I now bi-amp then with 2 ARC D400s and a Marchand external XO along with a pair of velodyne subs. The D400 could run in bridged mode to take advantage of all the power and the guys at ARC said they could handle the current requirements, but I would still rather bi-amp if possible. Guess I have become a convert :-)
Bottom line is I think I have done all I can do to get the most from the old girls and the new "7 series" has got me drooling. |
