The advice above from jji666 is spot on.
Maggie 1.7i's lack detail. Ideas?
Hi,
In about 1979 I had a roommate who had a pair of Magnapan's, an amp, pre-amp (at least one of which was NAD, and a fairly high quality turntable. I was shocked and amazed about the feeling the singers were present in the room with me. The accuracy and detail of the sound.
Fast forward 40 years and I purchase a barely used 1.7is. I have a new Marantz NR1200. A 15 yo BK EX-440 Sonata (350WPC @ 4 ohms), and optical bit stream out Sony DVD player. I use optical cable between the DVD player and NR1200. I have fairly high quality cables between the pre-out of the NR1200 and the EX-440. I have somewhat high gauge copper stranded cable, about 6', between the EX-440 and the speakers.
The sound is not bad but very much lacking the detail and immediacy I remember in the highs and mid-range. A great disappointment. My question is what the most likely culprit?
Some possibilities:
1. My hearing has declined.
2. I've a romanticized memory of the sound quality.
3. What I was hearing was the mushrooms.
4. The speakers my roommate had were a bit wider. Maybe more like the 3.7s. Maybe 40 year old 3.7s are just that much better than current 1.7is.
5. Stranded wire cables.
6. Turntable that much better than CD.
7. ????
65 responses Add your response
Well I have my Focal Electra 1007 BEs sitting right next to my rebuilt Maggies. I find the Maggies have plenty of detail, just not quite the absolute forward quality of the Focals. My Maggies are actively biamped with a Krell on top and a Classe on the bottom...take out those 25 year old crossovers and they sing like birds. As for lack of punch, I have a pair of DWM woofers to enhance as well as a swarm of subs, but frankly I'll often have most of that off, thinking it's on, because the bass from the Maggies is quite pleasing. Agreed it's best to have at least one sub on all the time - RELs are a perfect mate for Maggies. I'd keep extolling the virtues but I have to head to the ear doctor for an upgrade in my hearing aids. What honey? That's tomorrow? I can't hear you? What?
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+1secretguy For what it’s worth: I have my 1.7s out 42" from front wall, 5’ between speakers (6’3" center to center) tweeters to the outside, very slight toe in and listening position approx. 9’ from speakers. The entire front wall, behind the speakers, is well dampened with acoustic drapes. Powering with a 35+ year Audible Illusions pre-amp (still dead silent and performing well) and a 350W @4ohm ADCOM power amp. and one ADS sub. Both with my LPs and CDs they sound incredible. I’ve tried the beryllium and the diamond tweeter speakers - I’ll stick with the Maggies thanks.... As others have said - a good pre amp, enough power, a good front end and detail to set up and your little Maggies will sound great.........Jim
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If you find those Maggies are as detailed as your Focals then you likely need a hearing checkup indeed. That or your sources/amplification are not that revealing. Maybe a combination of both?
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Or perhaps I just need to chill out when I see something egregious like this comment yet meaningless in the grand scheme of things. You do realize this is effectively an ad hominem attack rather than addressing the point directly? When an opinionated audiophile has no other arguments to make, they call the other person deaf or insult their gear. To be clear, my Maggies are true ribbon models. Perhaps the QR versions are less detailed, I would not know. But I would not generalize on all Magnepans regarding this issue. Specifically regarding the Focals, I would not call it more detail. I would call it more forward detail. I think it's a matter of taste which is preferable.
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your depressing me helomech. I'm going to try upgrading the DAC and pre-amp. See what happens. Maybe what I am hearing is the difference between a true ribbon and quasi. And there are definitely levels of audio they are mainly a question of budget. I am not going full out financially on this. Will see what happens. |
I did note a difference between the quasi and true-ribbon models in my earlier posts, but forgive my assumption that we are discussing the quasi-ribbon models since the OP has the 1.7is. Though the true-ribbons are certainly capable of more detail, I still find they are lacking compared what I’ve heard from a RAAL or good Beryllium unit. I can only surmise this might have been due to the specific demo conditions, or that the size of the Maggie tweeter panels causes a sort of comb-filtering effect. The latter of which seems evident in all the measurement graphs I’ve seen of a Magnepan. This even seems to be the case for the Maggie with the smallest tweeter panel: https://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-lrs-loudspeaker-measurements
Note the jagged treble response. This is likely due to a combination of factors including comb-filtering, but the smoothing Stereophile applies to their graphs is likely obfuscating the true depth of the treble nulls. Certainly, the “drum skin” effect plays a role as well, which is probably why amplifiers with high damping factor seem to improve detail to some extent.
You might gain some ground there, but I wouldn’t expect a revelation. Sorry for my depressing take on this controversy but this is my honest experience and sometimes these sort of threads can use some balance. I currently happen to use the most transparent amplification in existence (Benchmark AHB2 and LA4). While these amps can certainly elevate the transparency of any transducer, the Maggies still fall short of all other speakers in my stable in terms of detail. In some cases by a large extent, in others, it’s negligible. Now some will chime in here and claim the Benchmark gear isn’t up to snuff for reasons of power output or price, but I would vehemently disagree. I’ve owned pricier and more powerful gear and I’ve yet to hear any other amplification match the see-through transparency of the Benchmark stack. The AHB2 has yet to clip driving my .7s to high levels, and the amp maintains its imperceptible distortion levels up to the point of clipping. Now you might also be forgiven for thinking my anecdotes are useless because I referenced .7s, when you are discussing the 1.7is. Well, as noted in my earlier post, I’ve owned both, and I actually find the .7s to be the more transparent and detailed of the two, even when powered by mediocre amps. Please don’t infer from my posts that I am here to trash Magnepans. That is not my intent. I am merely pointing out that they have weaknesses and strengths, as do the vast majority of speakers. I in fact enjoy Magnepans immensely for what they do well, including the 1.7is. When it comes to the “disappearing act,” few speakers can match them. Maggies simply need be enjoyed within a contextual framework of their strengths. There do exist speakers that approximate the open, box-less sound of Maggies but with greater detail and dynamic impact, but the ones I’ve heard cost upwards of $20K/pair. Concerning “affordable” speakers, it’s a matter of picking your poison. Maybe buy a second pair of speakers to rotate through your system, which is what I do. A pair of mid-tier Triangle or Revel Performa speakers will allow you to hear the detail missing from your 1.7s. Just be forewarned that sometimes “comparison is the thief of joy.”
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