2. amps-preamps
  3. 151904-137710

Looking to introduce some tube magic to my system

Hi guys 
I have never owned a tube component, but looking to remedy this situation...
My system consists of a PC running Roon core > PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell Dac >  PS Audio Stellar M700 Monoblock Amplifiers > GoldenEar Triton One speakers.
Right now the Gain Cell Dac is functioning as a dac and as a preamp. I was thinking of adding a PrimaLuna Evo 400 Preamplifier between the dac and monoblocks.
Do you think it's a good idea? Could the PrimaLuna add "tube magic" when it is sandwiched between two solid-state components? Will there be a noticeable difference?
Another option I thought of is replacing the monoblocs with a Line Magnetic integrated amp, maybe a LM 805 IA. 
What is your thoughts? Sadly, an in home audition is not available where I live.
I mostly listen to acoustic music: Jazz, Folk, Country, Funk, Soul...
Looking to hear your thoughts 
Ziggi

zigggi
9 responses Add your response
gdnrbob
4,447 posts
 
If you want to move to tubes, buy an Atma-Sphere MA-1 3.3 and an MP-3 3.3. 
They are some of the best sounding equipment out there, have great reliability and superb customer service.
I bought my equipment only knowing that they worked well with my Vandy's and I haven't been disappointed. In fact I am upgrading my preamp to the MP-1 from the MP-3.
And, the owner, Ralph Karsten is a regular here on Agon. PM him at atmasphere.
Bob
milpai's avatar
milpai
2,402 posts
 
@zigggi,
I was in the same situation as you almost 2 years ago. No experience in tubes and wanted to try tubes. After researching a lot and getting opinions on this forum, I decided to go with the Bracket Labs Rhumba. I am very happy with this preamp. Highly recommended. I purchased it without auditioning. They have a trial period, but I doubt it that you will return it. 
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
I'd go to a Prima Luna integrated. It'll make a bigger difference, for less money (especially after selling the mono-blocks), and eliminate the need for a couple interconnects. Less money, better sound, what's not to love?

Oh and yes the Prima Luna will easily drive your speakers. Probably even with greater bass extension, authority and definition than you have now.
almarg's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
almarg
9,670 posts
 
Something the OP should be aware of if he wants to consider pairing a PrimaLuna integrated amp with his GoldenEar Triton One speakers:

In the following thread ...

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/primaluna-prologue-integrated-help-needed

... the OP reported an unusual problem using a PrimaLuna ProLogue integrated amp with his GoldenEar Triton Two speakers. He reported that a "throb" at about two beats per second occurred when the volume was raised beyond a certain point.

Like the OP’s Triton Ones that member’s Twos have internal amplification for the deep bass, and consequently an impedance that rises to very high levels at deep bass frequencies. (The impedance curves of the One and the Two are very similar, as can be seen in John Atkinson’s measurements here and here). And it turned out that the amp wasn’t happy working into a load that was essentially absent at very low frequencies. The result being what is referred to in electronics as "motorboating."

I suggested that he try putting suitably chosen load resistors on the output terminals of the amp, and fortunately that solved the problem.

I have no way of knowing, of course, if the same issue would arise pairing any of the other PrimaLuna integrated amplifier models with the Triton One. But it’s certainly a possibility that should be considered before proceeding down that path.

Regards,
-- Al

zigggi OP
10 posts
 
Thank you all for chiming in 
gdnrbob and milpai: I live in the middle east, so Atma-Sphere and Bracket Labs are not available here. 
millercarbon: Reason I'm not considering a PrimaLuna integrated, is because I would likely add a PrimaLuna power amp later on, if the preamp prove to be successful in my system. 
almarg: I did see that warning at the PrimaLuna website and that recommendation on fixing it. I thought of  PrimaLuna because in many shows the Tritons are usually demoed with a PrimaLuna. I thought of  Line Magnetic because it is the amp sandy Grross is using personally with the Tritons, and probably was using when voicing them.
again, thank you all for you thoughts
 
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,816 posts
 

I hope this doesn’t come off sounding intentionally argumentative, but here goes: I often see the notion of inserting a tubed component into a system broached in terms of "adding" tube magic. I believe Ralph Karsten (Atma-Sphere) and other great tube electronics designers would make the argument that the "magic" of tubes is what they DON’T add to the sound of a system.

I use tubed electronics for the transparent, grain-free, dynamic, rhythmically-responsive, organic-timbre reproduction of the sound of voices and instruments the best of them provide, not for some tube coloration to be added to the sound of my system. Hi-fi electronics, tube and solid state, should "editorialize" as little as possible, not add a sound of their own to a recording or system. The objective is for them to have NO sound of their own. If tubes have a "magic" quality to them, it is in their ability to come closer to doing that than does solid state.

almarg's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
almarg
9,670 posts
 
almarg: I did see that warning at the PrimaLuna website and that recommendation on fixing it.

Thanks for mentioning that. I hadn’t been aware of any mention of the "motorboating" issue at the PrimaLuna site (which they refer to as "fluttering"), and perhaps that note wasn’t present on their site in 2015 when the thread I referenced occurred. But after seeing your comment I found the link:

https://www.primaluna-usa.com/using-speakers-with-builtin-subwoofers

I note that the writeup only mentions the ProLogue Premium integrated amp, and none of their other integrated amplifier models.

Regards,
-- Al

Post removed 
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 

I often see the notion of inserting a tubed component into a system broached in terms of "adding" tube magic. I believe Ralph Karsten (Atma-Sphere) and other great tube electronics designers would make the argument that the "magic" of tubes is what they DON’T add to the sound of a system.

I use tubed electronics for the transparent, grain-free, dynamic, rhythmically-responsive, organic-timbre reproduction of the sound of voices and instruments the best of them provide, not for some tube coloration to be added to the sound of my system. Hi-fi electronics, tube and solid state, should "editorialize" as little as possible, not add a sound of their own to a recording or system. The objective is for them to have NO sound of their own. If tubes have a "magic" quality to them, it is in their ability to come closer to doing that than does solid state.

^^^^ THIS! ^^^^

One of the great propaganda coups of all time is the way transistors that measure good but sound bad were flipped around and heralded as neutral while tubes that sound great are denigrated just because they measure bad. What a crock. As if euphonic, literally "sounds good", is actually bad. Crazy! Anyone with two ears can hear what bdp24 describes above. Well, anyone with two ears and no axe to grind. In other words, normal folk. Audiophiles, well let’s just say there’s a reason the word audiophool isn’t going anywhere any time soon.
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