Looking for really fine cables at really low price

P.S: Regarding my comment about the hum in Bill's 845 amp, that went away with the Belden cable, I see in the 8402 datasheet that the resistance of the conductors is about 33.4 ohms/kilometer (corresponding to the stated 20 gauge wire), while the resistance of the shield is only about 9.8 ohms/km (which is equivalent to the resistance of a solid copper conductor that is between 14 and 15 gauge). Also, many interconnects have conductors that are narrower than 20 gauge. That all seems consistent with the explanation I speculated.

Best regards,
-- Al

Thanks, guys. Regarding twisting the cable right-handed, I suspect that the person who was quoted was vaguely thinking of what is known as the "right-hand rule", which describes the relation between the direction of the magnetic field surrounding a conductor and the direction of the current flowing in the conductor which produces that field. But I agree with Salectric and Bill, and I don't see that as having any relevance to a twisted pair interconnect. And IMO proving otherwise would require, as a minimum, comparing two cables that are identical except for which hand was used to twist them, under equal conditions of system warmup, AC line voltage and noise conditions, and cable breakin. And preferably when connecting a variety of components. I doubt anyone has done that.

Regarding shielding, there are of course many variables that can affect its consequences, involving the designs of the components that are being connected as well as the characteristics of the cable. So I would second the comment by Charles in his most recent post, to the effect that listening in a given system is the only way to determine which is preferable. My instinctive guess, though, would be that more often than not a shielded cable will tend to provide results that are a bit more accurate (which is not to say that those results would necessarily be subjectively preferable).

Regarding the frequently claimed tendency of unshielded cables to sound more open, I think that is likely to often be the case. Which, however, may or may not mean that the cable is behaving in a more accurate manner. If the component driving the cable has a high output impedance, and especially if the length of the cable is also long, the reduction in cable capacitance that probably results from eliminating the shield may improve high frequency extension and thereby result in a more open (and accurate) sound. But in many cases increased pickup of RFI or other high frequency noise, or possible increases in ground loop-related high frequency noise (see the next paragraph, keeping in mind that ground loop issues can result in high frequency noise as well as low frequency hum), could create the subjective impression of a more open sound, while at the same time being less true to the signal source. I've seen it said a number of times over the years that low level high frequency noise can contribute to a subjective perception of increased ambience, which makes sense to me. Also, low level noise at frequencies that are too high to hear directly can conceivably have similar consequences, by intermodulating with signal in the component circuitry and thereby affecting audible frequencies.

Regarding Bill's mention of a hum that went away with his 845 amp when a shielded Belden cable was used, if the shield was connected at both ends, and assuming that an unbalanced connection was involved, my guess is that the hum had been caused by a ground loop issue between the amp and the component that was driving it. Depending on the designs of the specific components, ground loop susceptibility can be affected by the resistance of the return conductor in the cable which connects them. A shield can be expected to generally have a lower resistance than a wire of moderate gauge.

Regarding natural vs. artificial materials, it stands to reason that the characteristics of the insulating materials surrounding a conductor can affect the sonics of a cable in various ways. But I would be (very) hesitant to draw any general conclusions about natural vs. artificial without extensive and carefully controlled comparisons.

In any event, enjoy! Best regards,
-- Al

Salectric, I thought the very same thing.

Mikirob, that poster on Jeff's site missed the fact that the WE wire does indeed have a rubber like shield in addition to the natural fibers. The rubber like material is actually on the wire before the cloth.

We need you almarg!

I wonder what "twisting the cable right-handed" means (per Siedy comment above). Wouldn't this change depending on which way you were looking at the cable?

I wonder what Almarg thinks?

A comment from Jeff Day Blog from European collegue Siedy Abee regarding WE16ga speaker wire and cables in general; at any rate something to think about:

"I promised you to write an article about the wonderful nice sounding SPEC amp at my home. Due to the hectic time at my work and private live did not found the right time to make a start with the article. On short terms I will do. I can tell that I will put some extra news in it. My friend Piet (www.audiotweaks.nl) has been recently been blown away by the Harbeth super hl5 plus!

I was hesitating a long time to write a bit about the wonderful and truly REAL sounding Western Electric WE16GA cables. I heard them at Piets place. Mr Yazaki-san did send him some meters.

A lot of people are wondering why this cable sounds so real and humanlike. Most people believes that the secret of the cables lies in the copper-tin inner wires. This is partly true. The real secret is hidden in the outer side of the cable! This is a cable that is NOT isolated by a chemical polluted isolation mantel. The materials they use is a type of cotton that is very friendly for the sound! This material does not destroy the sound. A lot of most common used isolation stuff is degrading the sound. Most people do think that the signal goes THROUGH the cable. This is partly true. Most of the signal goes his way OUTSIDE the cable. How more natural the used isolation material (cotton or silk) is (and NON chemical polluted) how better the cable can transport the real music.

My advice is not to isolate the cable with an outer shield. This wil have a negative influence on the sound! Be sure. If you cable is picking up some hum than you can better twist in more heavily. Please twist it right handed.

I looked at your interlink, Jeff. I saw that you used some plastic tape. Please, put this of your cable and have a listen! Or change it by tape made from cotton.

Please, check also if jou twisted the cable to the RIGHT hand site. If not than do so.

Perhaps some people are amazed about the way I explain why this cable sounds so nice. In the last year I learned a lot from my friend Jan Hut about materials who have a positive influence on the sound and in opposite way how materials (plastics, teflon) can destroy the sound. When I heard an interlink made with this approach I was positively blown away.

I would say Jeff, give it a try."

So, Abee recommends no shielding.

My current cables are unshielded and are the best sounding I've ever had up to this point. Of course how much can I attribute to that one factor? It reasonable to believe other variables are involved. I agree with the idea that there are few If any universal answers when it comes to audio and sound quality. Even with modern science and engineering at its current high level, they "still" can't reliably predict the final sound quality. We are reliant on having to actually listen to any given product. Thus the experimentation occurring with these DIY cables and the various impressions (which are overwhelmingly positive).
Charles,

With you Grannyring. We are all experimenting I know nothing about the science of building IC's and most IC's do have shielding so it is natural to do that. Without shield I may be introducing all sorts of crap into my system that I cant hear.

Some folks have written that shielding or any material other than natural fibers like cotton or silk will ruin the sound. A gentleman on the Day blog shared this same feeling stating the WE wire sounds so good because of the natural fibers used to make the wire....nothing artificial.

The problem is the WE wire does have a layer of rubber like material over the wire and just under the cloth. This layer is not made of natural fibers.

The Belden cable is not covered in natural fibers and sounds fantastic. I think the notion that copper braiding and unnatural wire coverings negatively impact the sound is speculation at best. Seems to me, like all things audio, it just depends on the build and many other factors. No universals here.

I struggled with wether to shield or not. Decided to build them like the great sounding Belden we all liked. Felt the internal WE wire would simply sound better and result in a cable with the Belden sound only better!

The other reason is my 845 amp had a buzz that went away the moment I hooked up the shielded Belden cable. I did not expect that and was was pleased with the dead quite drivers! That was enough for me to know shielding can make a difference and quiet down system noise.

If the cable stays in the dull sounding stage I will then remove the shield. I will give them more burn in time first.

I did read the insulation is proprietary.

As is the coating on the wire.

Charles, that's the beauty of this Western electric cable. I am guessing that the insulation that it was produced with is contributing to the sound that we have all fallen in love with. So I am not covering it with any dielectric. My instinct is to leave it uncovered and as natural as possible. As long as I am not getting hum or any radio frequency interference I see no reason to insulate it.

Jet,
That theory regarding wire seems intrinsically right. What dielectric material are you using? Some believe that natural materials are better sounding than the synthetics, who knows?
Charles,

Just checked our mailbox and the switchcraft RCA plugs arrived. I'll build a 2nd set of WE16ga interconnects in the next few days and burn them this time for 300 hours...LOL! before trying in my 300b amp. I'll be able to compare them to the WE 16ga interconnects that I built almost three weeks ago with no name RCA plugs.
My instincts tell me to still build these as simply as possible - not using any shielding or twisting. This way I am hearing the cable sounding as natural as possible. I think I read somewhere the less stuff you put around wires, the more open they sound. Don't know if I'm right or wrong, but that's what I'm a gonna do! Jet

Jet and Bill,
Very interesting the break- in "up and down" pattern of these cables, I wonder what electrical phenomenon explains these observations? And why the same wire behaves differently as IC compared to speaker cable. Always more questions than answers it seems most often.

I am very optimistic for Rob's use of the Arizona green capacitors in his Dynamo , just how much impact will they yield? Fun times for you guys.
Charles,

Yes it sounds like you are on the journey Grannyring. They went dull and flat several times on me. At 150 they opened up and then shut down again. Let's see if the same hold true for you. the brittleness comes and goes. Hopefully it goes away permanently.

Well mine started off a little brittle up top, but with great promise. Tonight after some 100 hours the sound is a tad dull and flat. I will let it play another 50 hours or do.

Strange how this did not happen on the speaker cables.

Grannyring keep us posted on the break in. I am courious if it will be similar to mine. At around 250 hours I am still hearing subtle changes day to day. Last night the upper mids sounded a bit harsh and aggressive and tonight these interconnects sound wonderful. In my system it seems there is a fine line with these WE16 interconnects- the highs can straddle the line between being slightly brittle and a wonderfully expressive. Tonight they have excellent balance from top to bottom. One word I would never use to describe these interconnects is "polite". I love being able to say that! After about 200 hours they have been fully expressing their musical selves! - Jet

Wow.... Good to see Jim Smith is open minded. I will report on the WE IC break in tonight. They have another 48 hours on them now. We will see.

Jim Smith, audio set-up Guru and best-selling author of "GET BETTER SOUND" is currently using WE16ga speaker wire and is building Grannyring model WE16ga interconnect.

This coming weekend we are having the owner of the Kondo ICs over for some listening and barbecue. He and his wife are coming. We are going to blindly listen to all three interconnects. Belden, WE16ga and Kondo silver and see which they prefer. He knows I am no longer interested in buying the Kondo but he does not know how highly I think of the WE interconnects. This will be fun :) Jet

Rob

There is no problem from me.

I am not a mega $ cable guy my comparisons are against Linn k20 speaker wire and Duelund Silver 2.0 and the WE 16ga.

http://www.linn.co.uk/all-products/accessories/k20-loudspeaker-cable

You have brought what could be a choice for many in a very inexpensive wire that might not be around very long, nothing wrong with that!

The Linn is about the same price as WE and Duelund is 15x as much.

I am not upset to have bought the WE wire.

I was only stating that from the hours on mine it seems to be high resonant part but what is there about the wire to deal with resonance?

The Linn wire is heavy chunk of copper relative to WE. The Duelund is of course solid rectangle Silver.

I for one can not comprehend $20k cables!

For that kind of money one could have top capacitors all through the amp and a top level speaker crossover. To me making 20x the difference of any wire.

I find Duelund to be marginally better than the Linn. (at way more money but worth it) Richer more complex less chopped up.

If the WE wire is better than $20k wire then maybe something wrong with whole industry of $20k cables.

Rob,
I don't think that my post came across to you in the way I meant. I was actually complimenting you and this very interesting thread. The input of numerous perspectives/experiences is good stuff. Oh well, this is how Internet text communication goes sometimes.
Take care,
Charles,

I wanted to end this fine 3 day holiday on an up note by saying how beautiful these Western Electric 16ga interconnects are sounding tonight. After spending over two weeks with them and listening to them evolve they are truly sounding stunningly expressive. I urge those of you that have some wire left to please build some for yourself. Give them plenty of time for break in. I am speechless tonight at the clean grain free musical expression that I am hearing. Such richness and texture. Even with crummy no name RCA plugs. I am lifted by the pure sonic emotion I am hearing. Stunning. Work comes for me early tomorrow morning but it's easier to face when I hear music like this. Jet

Saletric,
You have a lovely system. I believe I will join you in Lurker status. This crap totally ruined what was a good day. Best, Rob

Charles1dad,
What is going on here? With all due respect please stop putting words in my mouth that I did not speak or thoughts I did not put forth. You state: "The essential beauty of a thread such as this is that a variety of very respected and experienced members freely express their listening impressions. This is an enormous asset for all of us." Isn't that precisely what is taking place? When did I create a "Guru" out of Yazaki-san or Jeff Day? I merely gave credit where credit is due. Like you do when you credit Israel Blume, or other member's credit other designers/reviewers/mod mavens. What has made me the villain here where I am accused of something nefarious. Has this become Animal Farm and all Pigs are not created equal according to your quote above? It seems a number of you keep lecturing me about there are no absolute "best". When did I ever state that or put forth that proposition? Never, actually. Simply put, I am happy about this wire. I am happy about what I found out about the WE and The Arizona Capacitors. I shared that Info over recent time, and here today it turned weird.

Mikirob, if YOU had read this thread more carefully, you would know that I am not the one who compared cables to Tara Labs or Siltech. I was quoting the reviewer in Positive Feedback. I have never heard either brand at least not in my system.

Thank you for describing your system, both what you have and what you are thinking of getting. I do wish you well in your audio endeavors.

With that I think I will return to my usual lurker status and let you folks continue with your fun.

Wow I take my wife down to Coney Island for an afternoon stroll on the beach and some clams and this thread devolves into a bunch of defensive posts that takes up a bunch of guys time to write. I just hope you guys were enjoying some good music while you were posting your defense :) happy Labor Day guys. Jet

Salectric,
If you have been reading this thread in its entirety you would know that I don't disagree with what you just stated above. I agree. My point is simply this: I don't hear these speaker wires as you do. Quite the opposite. I explained above that many other folks don't hear them as you do. Nothing wrong in pointing that out. You could likely say the same about me and my crowd. You went adrift though in the context of the thread title/purpose. Low cost cables don't cost what Tara Labs or Siltec sell for. It is nice that you compared the WE to these cables though; and according to your hearing bias the WE fared well. Kind of like a 300lb bully fighting a kid and patting himself on the back because he landed a few good shots, yet the kid acquitted himself well.

Jeff Day, Yazaki-san listed their listening bias, it happens to coincide with mine. You certainly don't have to agree with that bias, most audiophiles don't. Never stated you had too.

So, are we kids in the locker room? You want to see if yours is bigger, better, than my rigs? When I move back to Boca Raton I will post my systems. I am soon acquiring Coincident 300B, plus Coincident Line Stage, new speakers to be either Coincident, DeVore 0/96, Daedalus, Tannoy Prestige Class, Yamamoto DAC or Lampizator level ??? As new listening room system. My wife and I building an AN Kit -1, likely pair the Audio Note 98db silver wired speakers for living room. Currently in my office system I have the Coincident Dynamo 34se. Today we (brother) started modifying it. Putting Yazaki-San recommended Green Cactus capacitors and selected Ohmite Resistors. Also own Cary V12 and 300BSEI. Speakers are Tekton M-Lore, Infinity Prelude Composition, Eastern Electric MiniMax DACs. My brother is a Leben CS600, Harbeth SHL5 guy for the time being. Best Rob

Rob,
Unquestionably you've done a genuine service by bringing these cables to the attention of fellow music lovers on this site. You have earned sincere congratulations. I do understand Nonoise's point, no reviewer or builder is a "guru" despite how much we value their opinions and recommendations. The essential beauty of a thread such as this is that a variety of very respected and experienced members freely express their listening impressions. This is an enormous asset for all of us.

Salectric, Volleyguy and Jet's wire break in experience differs from others
here, so what,
that's is expected. Different ears, systems, components and rooms. It's the
highest praise of the W.E. and Belden wires to shine so brilliantly amongst
the very upper tier expensive cable. To put it in proper perspective, this is remarkable!

Mikirob,
I understand. No harm meant. We just have different styles.

All the best,
Nonoise

Nonoise,
I went back and read again my comments and points. I really do not get your point that: "It's just that you seem to get your hackles up when someone diverges from your point of view and you bring in Day and Yazaki-san and all the loyal followers as if your point of view needs validation when just your point of view will do." I certainly didn't/don't have any "hackles up." Perhaps it is my academic/professional training to back-up and reference my point of view with not only solid research where appropriate, or in this case on a audio forum anecdotal findings and comments by folks who have a contrary experience; especially from a superb designer/engineer with a long, reputable career in audio who recommended the WE16ga in the first place as it is his reference after literally trying hundreds from low cost to mega cost. Yazaki-San kindly brought it to the attention of Jeff Day, a respected reviewer/mod maven who was so impressed he started using it nearly everywhere in his system. To me this information is golden, and worth the reference constantly, as people here tend to forget or obscure details. I didn't discover the cable. I'm merely the messenger saying, "hey look what these guys discovered. You might like it. I tried it and think they nailed it.
So, when A poster drifts way off course of the topic: "Looking for Really Fine Cables at Really Low Price" and is comparing the WE16ga or Belden to speaker/interconnect in the five (5) digit cost sphere and is talking about a ninth degree of better top end extension, inner detail, I think it quite appropriate to say/disagree; and reference other folk who did not hear "bright, thin" except, possibly in a first moment of break-in. That's what we have here. Further, you challenged me, why is it not appropriate to say/challenge a bit, "I heard the opposite." As a matter of fact, it should be my duty to question that poster, no hackles raised, just straight ahead question: "you just stated that the WE is slightly lacking the last ninth degree extension, and you hear a small amount more inner detail with the $18,000 -$20,000 wire, right?" "So, you also thought the WE bright and thin?" Well, again, no hackles raised, I believe I have the right to say, "nobody I know heard it that way, more like full, anything but bright, etc., etc.

All good points and this is a great thread. The WE wire is different however from other wire and a value of immense proportions. Salectric, I am confident a double run as speaker cables with proper run in time will please you. I have no doubt based on your system and gear.

After burn in and a double run, if you still don't like them, then I will eat a plate of shepards pie which is the most awful tasting dish in the world to me :) I respect your opinion and hope to soon read you have tried them with proper burn in.

Mikirob, it would help if you listed the equipment in your system. This would give some context to your comments. Perhaps you did this earlier in the thread; it's hard to keep track of all the details in a long thread. That's why many of us have posted our system details as a Virtual System.

As for citing Jeff Day or Yazaki or any one else for that matter, I agree with Nonoise; it adds little weight. Each of us has our own sonic priorities, our own tastes in music and our own tastes in equipment. The only opinion that matters is our own informed opinion after trying the cables in our own system. In that regard, the Belden and WE wire are no different from any other cable. The difference is that they are so inexpensive that nearly everyone can afford to try them, unlike most commercial cables. The fact that people who have tried them reach some different conclusions doesn't mean that anyone is wrong. We simply have different reactions to the cables in our own system. You can find the same thing with most uber-expensive cables. For example, Nordost Valhala cables received mostly rave reviews when they came out with everybody noting the speed and detail. But a few noted they were lean, bright and fatiguing. The lack of agreement did not mean either side was wrong.

Incidentally the one time I did follow a reviewer's advice on cables was when I bought Sablon Panatela interconnects based on Jeff Day's very enthusiastic review. I quickly concluded their sound was not what I wanted in my system. Fortunately Sablon had a 30 day satisfaction guarantee so I was able to return them, but my point is that Jeff's conclusion that the Beldens sound better than the Panatelas didn't carry much water for me.

Mikirob,
I still complement you on your find. I even agree with much of what you've said. It's just that you seem to get your hackles up when someone diverges from your point of view and you bring in Day and Yazaki-san and all the loyal followers as if your point of view needs validation when just your point of view will do.

I believe what you hear: it's very close to what I hear. 'Nuf said.

All the best,
Nonoise

Grannyring,
Jeff Day is intrigued by your email to him and he states, "After reading Bill Dion’s comment about how well he liked the interconnects he made using vintage Western Electric WE16GA wire, I was intrigued and thought I’d give it a try too. Many thanks to Bill for such an awesome comment!

Well, you should go to Day's Blog, read for yourself, he made your interconnect, has pictures and comments. Best, Rob

NoNoise,
Further, your reference of this quote, "I'll defend anyone searching for the truth but will fight anyone who claims to have found it," is misapplied in this case. I have stated over and over there are no absolute "best" in this hobby. I search for truth in sound/music but it is damn hard to find, and you aren't going to find it in $15,000 Tara Labs or 20,000 plus grand Siltec either. What was making me enthusiastic about the WE and Belden was that even a beginner with modest bucks and a modest system could afford something like these cables that would help them on the path, a benchmark at reasonable cost. There was enough positive input from many other audiophiles and my own listening to determine that it was worth bringing up in this thread. Oh, and how many designers and reviewers tell you plainly what their listening bias is, where "they are coming from" to help you make an informed choice; and to answer your question, yes, you are thin-skinned; but I won't hold that against you, wish you the best, Rob

Nonoise,
You are way, way, off base. I stated, "I am guessing your ears aren't better than the rest of us." Meaning, your ears must be similar. Funny, you complemented me for referencing the Day/Yazaki-san tinned copper threads, when it met with your belief about tinned copper/Supra. No cult here buddy, just giving credit where credit is due, which so many here do not do. In my education I learned how to footnote and cite where information was coming from. Cult, give me a break!

The real ludicrous part in the thread is this was supposed to be about good really low cost cables. Not mega-cost, what most Audiophiles don't have and can't afford. Geez, and to compare them against the WE and admit they are close save for a little extension and inner detail. Sort of demonstrates how good the WE is and how far off topic some folks drift.

Jetrexpro, All,
Check. "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum" in this thread. The thread title is: "Looking for Really Fine Cables at Really Low Price." So, maybe a reality check is in order since somehow, the WE16ga is being compared and contrasted against $15,000 Tara Labs, 20,000 Euro Siltec, with the inexpensive $1.49 running twin foot WE16ga holding its own, comparing favorably, maybe overall as good or better as these other speaker wires?

Once again there are no "absolute" best anything, but Jeff Day via Yazaki-san presented the WE16ga in his Blog/Positive Feedback review Yazaki-san SPEC Real Sound Amp as well as Yazaki-san's own reference speaker wire and interconnect, WE16ga/Belden 8402. This information presented an unprecedented opportunity for "Timbral Listeners" to obtain a worldclass speaker/interconnect that could potentially fulfill their listening bias at real world prices. Albeit a small window of opportunity due to the extreme limited quantities of the WE. I believe some folks forget the thread purpose, get lost within the nit picks of audiophile reviewer parlance. Simply put, this is a wonderful wire by any calculator. To me, to my ears, it has everything I want/need. If it is not your cup of tea/Java, stick with what you like better.

Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way so please set me aright if I am but I believe Salectric's and Volleyguy1's ears to be as good as anyone else's here. Name dropping a bunch of folk who like what they hear and prefer it to what's currently favored doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It's simply a preference on what they hear and favor.

Is this how cults start?

There's an old saw that goes something like:
"I'll defend anyone searching for the truth but will fight anyone who claims to have found it."

I think that applies here.

There is no 'absolute sound'. Even from different makes, what this tinned wire does is pretty amazing. My Supras offer the best compromise yet in my system. (Notice I'm not afraid to use the word 'compromise' since that's exactly what it is).

This is the second time folk have been denigrated for their views. The first time it was 'misunderstood humor'. It could be I'm being too thinned skinned since this is an online forum but that's my take.

All the best,
Nonoise

I didn't notice break-in very much with the Western electric speaker cables but it was a much different case with the Western electric interconnects. Same wire different application don't understand it, doesn't really matter, but that's how it was.

Grannyring, All,
Yes Wire and equipment has break-in; but I think this concept/reality is stretching out to the hyperbolic. Not many other folks found the Break-in as bad as Salectric, getting dark and closed in where he had to remove the cable. At least now I have a benchmark, like with reviewers, if person A likes a particular thing I will likely not like it. If person B likes a particular thing I will likely like it too. This is good. "Makes the world go round." "Different strokes for different folks." Me, I come down on the side of Day, Yazaki-san, We16ga, unequivocally. That is obvious, or else I would never have brought this wire to the attention of Agon in this and other threads. Again, love the hackneyed expression YMMV. Best, Rob

Volleyguy1,
You're comments, Salectric, are a bit dumbfounding, what could possibly be going on in your systems that Jeff Day didn't hear, Yazaki-san/his design crew didn't hear; Why he chose this speaker wire. Why the many Day stellar colleagues don't hear what you hear. The legion of Day readers who caused this wire to sell-out don't hear, same for the Decware folks and buzz on other audio web sites. I am guessing your ears aren't better than the rest of us. As the cliche states, "to each his own" that makes the world go round. Best, Rob

Break-in is something real and I have never understood why some would argue different. I have tinnitus and am very sensitive to upper mids and highs. My ears are set off with the wrong combo wether a stereo or live music. My ears and tinnitus react differently with the same recording at the same volume as cables change with burn in. This is an objective reality based on experience. This is a physical not physiological phenomenon. Any bit of glare or edge in the critical upper mids and highs sets my ears to ringing and is just uncomfortable for me to listen to for long periods of time.
The same wire that forces me to turn the system off can with burn-in cause me to turn up the volume and enjoy for long periods of time.

Yes, some break-in is for the worse and the end result was not as good as the beginning or mid point. I found that to be true for some Vishay Z Foil resistors recently.

I have also experienced that moving cables in and out of a system, bending, turning etc...requires some time for re-settling in. I found this particularly true for solid core power cables.

I wonder why I never had any, zero, of this type problem? Jeff Day, Yazaki-san never mentioned any of these break-in dramatic changes. Again mine started out really good and just kept getting better and better. My WE16ga is not dark on top, they are very extended. They have wonderful resolution. They are transparent with all the detail I would ever want. They have stellar tone, texture, color. Excellent tuneful bass. They are natural sounding, organic. Outstanding musical flow and PRAt. In brief, everyone visiting my house yesterday loved them, regardless of what cables they owned. I'll go into detail at a later time.
Late today my brother and I are going to start installing the Arizona capacitors and Ohmite resistors per Yazaki-san instructions. Then over this next week we are going to re-wire internal wires and capacitors in speakers and some other items, probably follow Grannyring pathway. Best, Rob

In listening to Kind of Blue the first thing I noticed with the WE was the increased amount of tape hiss.

This is always a tell tale sign of resonance.

When the Jupiter Copper Foil caps when in my phono section I was shocked at the noise reduction, just incredible. Jupiter caps are the lowest resonant cap I have heard. (not my favourite cap but lowest noise)

Resonance is not talked about like it should be.

Saletric mentions the WE wire as "bright and thin".

My first impression of the WE wire was vintage Vishay ERO FOL capacitors.

I had mentioned in the Cap thread that vintage Vishay had a incredible midrange. (one could say better than Duelund)

The problem is the vintage caps are high resonant parts.

Resonance makes sound come incredibly alive but only the the freq. of the resonant part.

I have moved the WE wire to compare to Duelund Silver 2.0..

I did not know what to think of the vintage Vishay caps and this wire is along the same lines.

I suspect the wire is a high resonant part. Not saying this is bad. If a system has a dull midrange this can elevate bring life to the system.

My copper thin stranded wire is tightly interwoven fine strands. The WE wire does not appear to have tight winding?

The interesting thing is I left one vintage amp which was the best sounding of the lot all vintage until the modded amps were past in all ways.

Salectric you mention they became "very warm in the lower mids and bass and rather dark and closed in on top" This is pretty much how I heard the WE16ga Interconnects sound during the 2 or 3 times they shut down. Finally yesterday afternoon I heard them open up a bit and last night I heard a significant change so I put them in the back room burning over night. Early this morning I put them in my 300b rig and they are singing!

My "new" WE 16g wires (the ones from the 1980s or so) started out as bright and thin, but after a few hours, maybe 5 or 6, became very warm in the lower mids and bass and rather dark and closed in on top. I haven't used them since.

The older WE 16g wires that I am breaking in right now will have a lot more hours on them before I try them in the hifi system. As I said before, I am hoping I can use them as internal wiring for my speakers. Right now I have 12g silver-coated copper stranded Mil-Spec wire for the internal wiring, and it sounds very good in that application. However, I would prefer a less massive, more flexible wire, and the WE wires certainly meet that requirement. Sonically we will have to see.

Salectric, No I have not seen that post in AA. Glad you bought some extra just-in-case. If you end up not liking it you'll be able to sell it. Given the way you described your rig yesterday I think you will end up liking it.

I have heard good and bad break in several times. Including WIMA caps which I did not like at all in my amp. Several resistors brands as well didnt sound good. These WE16ga IC's...have had several peaks and valleys which were very audible. I found that once the WE16ga speaker wire hit 125 hours they remained pretty consistent, although I confess to never hearing them from the beginning since they were burning in the back room for 125 hours before I stalled them my 300b rig.