Mikirob,
Will do, I'm currently using the white lightning cables which actually sound pretty decent considering the absurdly low price tag but I'm also very eager to hear the WECO cables. You know tou have a winner when you're comparing these to cables costing around $1000.00. Think I'm going to bite on the Beldens as well |
Metman,
I don't know if you read Jeff Day's Wordpress blog, but a number of folks
who made the White Lighting Cables have mentioned the WE 16ga is in
another league entirely. The Decware forum page also has some
interesting discussion, also Asylum Cable Forum.
In my view, I like these better than Kimber 8TC, PS Audio Statement,
Goertz 99.99% pure silver. The WE is still breaking in. I did purchase
another 70 feet yesterday, enough for several more cables.
Of course as always YMMV, I believe this NOS WE will best many, many
speaker cables out there. Still, only $1.39 a foot. I think Nonoise is on to
something good with the Supra, also tinned copper. Do yourself a big favor,
get the Belden 8402, terminate with the inexpensive Switchcraft SWC 3502
AAU RCAs. They too, are really good. About $40. I like them better than
Kimber Hero, Goertz silver, Silnote Reference, and really, just about any
other interconnect I have owned. Again, YMMV. Best. |
Nonoise, can you text me pictures of products made in Heaven? Are you sure they haven't been made in New Heaven? |
Czarivey,
I don't know if God had a hand in making these Supra Ply 3.4W cables but keep in mind they are made in Sweden so maybe the Norse gods had something to do with it.
As for New Haven, it has been described as god's country, but so have lots of places.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Hey,
And God made the best pizza come from New Haven, Pepe's, Sally's and some others... |
Mikirob,
I did read the Wordpress blog and saw the comments regarding the WECO cables being in another league compared to the WLM,. The wire just arrived yesterday and looking forward to connecting it this weekend.
I also plan on purchasing the 8402's in the not so near future.
It's ironic I started my telco career with Western Electric in 1980 in a mammouth warehouse that probably had boatloads of this wire but to quote Rod Lane from Faces "I wish that I knew what I know now when I was younger" |
Metman,
It seems it was break-up of ATT that ultimately caused the demise of much of the WE wires. Very sad to me. I'm also in ”I wish that I knew what I know now when I was younger” club. The wires continue to get better. I believe my musical/audio/sensibility/ears closely match Day and Yazaki-san. I really am thrilled with the sound I am getting. Good luck and best. Rob. |
"would-a. could-a, should-a, didn't" defines the story of my life too.
Enjoy your new cables.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I live in northwest New Jersey. Can someone direct me to a person who I could pay to terminate these cables? |
The conventional wisdom is to just use the bare ends. Although convenient, terminations may impart their own sonic signature. I for one, can't really tell the difference with absolute certainty. Having said that, is this close? If not, try here. All the best, Nonoise |
If you are speaking about the WE 16ga, just go bare wire, just give them a few twists. If you are speaking about the Belden, the seller will terminate for you. If the Supra, l'd take advice from Nonoise. |
Thanks for the responses - |
I used the WE 16ga with 2 different bananas and bare - at the amp end only. Each banana imparted a signature. The less expensive banana, presumably low copper-content, was the least desirable. The more expensive one with "high copper content" was noticeably different and better.
I preferred the bare wire. It was cleaner sounding with a little more presence.
However, I could see how one might prefer the signature of the better banana. |
Hooked the cables up last night and listened for approx 3-4 hours. Very impressed thus far, big improvements over the WLM in all areas. Didn't want to stop listening! my interconnects are very mediocre and really looking forward to hearing how the 8402's mate with the WECO cables |
Are the Belden cables a good choice for phono cable? |
Metman,
In my system the WE 16g is a wonderful match with the Belden 8402 interconnect. Natural and organic. Relaxed with terrific tonal color, texture, dynamic, transparent, really nice stage. I think YMMV.
John, some folks are using them with success as phono.
Best, Rob |
Thanks,wish the speaker wire was as easy to purchase! |
If anyone here wants the WE 16ga, tajacobs, seller on eBay is legitimate. Most of the Day/Yazaki-san readers are buying from him. I have no connection to tajacobs, just a happy buyer. Day's blog provide a link to seller of Belden 8402. They can terminate RCA or other type for you. |
The primary reason for terminating copper speaker wires is that oxidation sets in and degrades the sound but because the WE wires are tinned that won't happen so no sense in introducing another component like spades or plugs that could possibly effect the sound . YMMV |
Looks like the ebay seller tajacobs no longer has any listings for the WE 16g cable. Missed out on it unfortunately. |
John,
Just go on eBay, sign-up if you don't already have account. Use PayPal to pay, very easy. You'll get your WE in about 4 days. But do it fast as I don't really know how much of this wire tajacobs has. After him it's Japan or Taiwan, even more of a hassle. Best. Rob |
Whoops, my bad. It turns out he still has some listed. For some reason, I wasn't able to find it again earlier which made me think he was out of stock. But I did a ebay search for tajacobs listings and the cable was there. Sorry. |
I just checked and the eBay seller tajacobs still has the WE stranded tinned copper in both red and black wire. So, good luck. Best, Rob |
I did the same and the seller still has wire. Lots of wire. Some in red cloth and some in black but with different or no writing on the wire. There's no reason to think it's different as batches will vary over time when it comes to what's printed on it. They both are 25 strands of tinned copper.
There's also some 14ga of about 40 strands of tinned copper from around the same era and who's to say how that would sound?
All the best,
Nonoise |
I'm willing to bet that that the 14 ga wire or 12 etc... Probably sound just as good. If anyone buys it please let us know |
I was never one to experiment very much with speaker wire considering how expensive many of them are so I really can't compare the WE wire to brand X or Y but I can definitively say the WECO wire has made a big difference in my system and I only have approximately ten or so hours on them and can only imagine them getting better as they run in. From a price/value standpoint these are off the charts.
How difficult is it to solder connectors to the Belden 8402 cable, I would really like to save some money trying it myself |
When it comes to speaker cable, it's the same with me: it's too expensive to experiment. As tempted as I am to buy some bulk WE wire, I'm going to sit this one out as the Supra's are still breaking in and getting better all the while.
Last night I listened to a CD that I've heard hundreds of times over the last few years for the first time. There it was, all laid out before me in the most natural and organic way. It was the most effortless presentation I've heard yet not in the least forward or forceful unless dictated by the musicians. Every single note, nuance and musical inflection came through, right as rain. No highlighting, etch, or glare contributed to the effect.
It could almost be described as laid back. I now see why some reviewers cite that phrase as nothing needs to be exaggerated to convince you you're hearing the real thing as intended. It's a complete, full bodied gestalt of a presentation that can lull you into the performance and shock you with the dynamics when called for.
I'm loving it.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Metman & Nonoise,
I like your description and tend to agree with Nonoise earlier comment, tinned stranded copper, Supra/WE, "kissing cousins" is likely right. It has such an organic natural flow, less the electronic artifacts, full, texture, color, provides a nice emotion connection to the musicians. Everything is in balance. No etch, glare, quiet. Dynamics can be startling. I just love the tone. Rob |
I'm also very impressed with the depth and layering of the music as well as the other attributes you mentioned. Any diy experience out there with the Belden's? |
I am going down the same road with the WE16ga speaker cable and the Belden 8402 / Switchcraft ICs. If nothing else, should be a fun experiment. I really like my current Zu Events and MAC ICs (Palladium and Mystics), but I have an open mind!
2 questions that come to mind:
- On the Belden, is it best to connect the shield to one RCA (on the source side), or to both sides?
- On the WE16ga, to twist + and - together, and if so, # of twists / ft. or just leave them parallel?
It may take trial on error on both scenarios to figure out the best, but that will take time. Looking for some thoughts here, since sound will be affected based on the above. |
Hello 1markr,
Please read the Jeff Day Wordpress blog, those questions are answered there. Most people just loosely twist the plus and minus together, not necessary though, some folks seem leave them parallel. Trial and error in your system likely the way to go. I bought both the red and black, loosely twisted the plus/minus together and gave the bare tinned copper ends some twists.
With respect to the Belden I believ Yazaki-san dropped the shield entirely, I'll have to go back and check. Of course other folks did one or the other. Go read the blog to make sure for yourself, I could be mistaken. Best, Rob |
1markr, guys,
Here is what you are looking for regarding the RCAs:
I asked Yazaki-san how he planned to construct the interconnects, as there are a couple of different conventions for connecting a shielded two-conductor cable to RCA plugs. Yazaki-san told me, “One conductor is connected to the hot of the RCA plug. And the one more conductor is connected to the grounding of RCA plug with the shield of the cable. In my opinion, the audio signal has AC component, overlapped with DC component and AC current flows forward and backward. And so the conductor to the hot could flow AC forward current and the other conductor to the grounding could flow AC backward current under the same condition. And also grounding, one conductor and the shield could bring out the lower impedance for grounding.”
So in Yazaki-san’s method, one conductor goes to the RCA pins (hot), the other conductor goes to the plug housings (ground), and the shield is connected at each end to the ground. This is a little different connection method than is traditional here in the USA, where the norm is to connect one conductor to hot (pins), one conductor to ground (plug housings), and connect the shield only on one end (normally the preamplifier end) to the ground. Connecting the shield to ground on both ends has some potential risks, decreasing the effect of the shielding slightly, creating the possibility of a ground loop in some applications, and creating the possibility that noise voltages or currents from the shield can get on the signal conductor (Henry Ott, Reducing Noise in Electronic Systems, second edition, page 58). However, I found no issues at all with Yazaki-san’s connection method in my system, and as you’ll read in a moment, it sounded fantastic. |
More from Jeff Day Wordpress Blog:
Think about this for a moment: It turns out that back in the day that Belden 8402 was the choice for microphone cables in a fair number of recording studios (and other pro-audio applications), so there’s a reasonable chance that for your beloved recordings, the live music went to the microphone, down the Belden 8402 microphone cable, and onto the master tape. Part of what you and I associate with ‘the master tape sound’ is unsurprisingly the sonic characteristics of Belden 8402 microphone cable.
Leo, Pete, Ron, Stephaen, and I played a bunch of different mono & stereo records and had a blast listening to music. So how did the Belden 8402 microphone cable sound as an RCA interconnect? Fantastic! Even with zero time on them, straight out of the package from Tokyo, they sounded amazingly good. Smooth and natural, very refined, timbrally realistic, beautiful tone color, and terrific musicality. Yazaki-san regards the Belden 8402 microphone cable “as some kind of ultimate” and I wouldn’t disagree.
We did a little A-B listening with my normal reference, the seriously good Sablon Audio Panatela interconnects ($950 USD for a 1-meter pair), which those of you who have been following along, know that I really love.
The Belden 8402 and Sablon Audio Panatela interconnects sound totally different from each other in the way they’re voiced, yet they’re both fantastic sounding interconnects. So which pair of interconnects was the favored pair in our listening sessions? It was actually a split decision. Two listeners preferred the Sablon Audio Panatela interconnects (Leo and Stephaen), two preferred the Belden 8402 (Pete and Ron), and one called it a draw between them (me).
The bottom line is that I think the Panatela and Belden 8402 are the two best interconnects I’ve heard in my hi-fi experience, and as I get more time on the Belden 8402’s I’ll follow up with more detailed impressions and comparisons.
Here’s the tricky part: the Belden 8402 is non-existent in the USA from the normal audio outlets. Sorry about that. You can find it from a few pro-audio providers, but it’s sold from Belden in 500-feet spools as a minimum order, so it’s hard to find shorter lengths.
So you’re probably wondering how much it would cost to build a 1-meter pair of interconnects using Belden 8402. Well, about a $1000 USD.
Kidding! Belden 8402 sells for about $2.75 USD per foot or less, depending where you buy it. So it’ll cost you less than $50 USD to build a 1-meter pair of interconnects. It is an incredible bargain.
I searched high and low for someone who sells it by the foot here in the US, and I found one pro-audio supplier that was willing to sell it by the foot (10-feet minimum order), Best-Tronics Pro Audio in Tinley Park, Illinois. Here’s a link to their Belden 8402 page where you can buy it by the foot. |
Sorry for all the cutting and pasting. Jeff Day does allow to share the blog, so I hope this information is helpful to anyone interested. It helped me. You also might want to read directly from blog about the WE 16ga along with all the comments. And thank you sincerely to Yazaki-san for bringing these wires to our attention. My deepest respect and gratitude. Best, Rob |
Where do we buy the WE 16 ga wire? In what ways did the Belden and Sablon sound different. Which one was more natural and easy to listen to? |
Here are the listings for the wire and here are the comments on the cables. All the best, Nonoise |
Grannyring,
Buy from seller tajacobs, that is where I and most of the Jeff Day blog respondents bought their WE 16ga; they are authentic. Good luck, Rob |
Grannyring,
I also posted about the WE16ga and Belden over on the Rebbi speaker thread that you participate in. Doesn't seem like too many folks over there care to make an inexpensive experiment. As I stated before, I've dumped my expensive speaker Cables and interconnect for the WE 16ga and Belden 8402, sounds superb with my Coincident amp. Jeff Day has Aldo been interesting and a straight shooter. Lots of good tips. His turntable is a beautiful piece of functioning art. |
I purchased from that eBay seller and we will see on the speaker cables. Are you guys terminating or just hooking it up bare wire? I am thinking of going bare wire since it is tinned. |
I'm going bare wire as is Jeff Day, Yazaki-san and almost all Day's responders. |
Mikirob,
Per this: If anyone here wants the WE 16ga, tajacobs, seller on eBay is legitimate. Most of the Day/Yazaki-san readers are buying from him. I have no connection to tajacobs, just a happy buyer. Day's blog provide a link to seller of Belden 8402. They can terminate RCA or other type for you.
Are you referring to Best-Tronics Pro Audio? Also, it seems that Yazaki-san on Jeff Day's sight has a special way to terminate the ICs. Will Best-Tronics terminate in the same manner upon request? |
Garaneau, I just ordered a set and yes Best Tronics wires them exactly the same as Day/Yazaki. Shield soldered to ground on both ends. |
Best-Tronics is excellent source for Belden and other pro stuff. Did excellent job for me. Tajacobs also top-notch. |
I needed a longer set of speaker cables and received 28 feet of the WE16 GA today. I made a set of cables with bare wire connections on both ends.
I have had them playing for 4 hours now. They replaced very highly regarded $1500 cables. Thus far I am very impressed with the WE16. Not as detailed or an image champ like my other cables, but these have a very special relaxed and inviting sound. No glare at all.....none of that digital glare or forced highs. None! Very smoooooth!
Just easy to listen to and quite engaging in an unforced and inviting way. Some may find them a tad to mellow if they like silvery highs and a more upfront sound.
I will let them settle in more. |
Grannyring,
They keep getting better as they settle in, about 100hrs they should be there. More detail and image is on the horizon, although my system didn't lack for either in my set-up, but I completely agree with your descriptors thus far. |
Are the Belden RCA Cables sold by pair or individual?Did not see if so on Best tronics site. |
If the WE 16ga speaker wire is anything like the Supra Ply 3.4W, then 100 hrs sounds about right. My Supras were great out of the box and just got better and better as the hours piled on. I thought that at 50 hrs they wouldn't get any better but I was so wrong on that account. They got even better after the 100 hr mark.
All the best,
Nonoise |
John421,
Individual length, so, if you need a one (1) meter pair of interconnect you need approximately six (6) feet of cable. Best-Tronics will cut for you any length as long as you buy their minimum of ten (10) feet. Best-Tronics will also terminate for you if you want that done.
For example, I wanted two pair of interconnect, one three (3) foot and one six (6) foot; so I bought eighteen feet of Belden 8402, Best-Tronics cut and terminated with the terminations I asked for: I asked for Switchcraft RCA. Bingo, two pair terminated, arrived from order to finish about 5 days. On their site they have a box for questions. A helpful fellow named Bartoz quickly got me all settled. Best, Rob |
They have changed already and are a tad sharper sounding......not quite as smooth, but more detail and better imaging. Hope I get back that smoothness however. I will update as they burn in running 24/7. |
OK,I would want two three foot pairs to make twelve feet together. |
