I currently run Metrum Ambre with Metrum Onyx and really enjoy it, but am looking to upgrade to a better streamer that has spotify among other aps. Currently looking at Lumin U1 mini, Auralic, etc.
@creativepart Have you ever had the firmware corrupt on you requiring you to burn a new microsd and put it on? I find that a bit annoying.
Actually, one time. I originally had the SMS200 before getting the SMS200 Ultra. I don't remember exactly what I did, but I was messing around with the SD card and a reboot button on the rear of the unit and it corrupted the SD card. I didn't need to buy a new one. I copied a safety copy to my computer and downloaded a new disk image. After I applied the image to the SD everything worked normally. This was back at version 4.2 of the firmware. I was only down for half a day while I figured out what I needed to do. SoTM support (May) was responsive and helpful. I never had any other similar events and I went on to upgrade to the Ultra version of the SMS200. I've not had any issues with it at all. It's just plug and play.
$3500 budget for a streamer to stream Spotify?? Ummm, ok, lol. Sounds like a serious set-up... why not use qobuz, tidal, amazon hd? $3500 streamer and spotify go together like a 911 turbo and 85 octane 👍
Stereophile reviewed a couple of servers in the two most recent issues, Innous Statement and Wolf something or other, with the cheapest being about $10,000. Both of them were compared to the Roon Nucleus+ with an upgraded power supply - total cost about $3400. The Roon more than held its own.
I don’t think anyone mentioned the SoTM SMS200 Ultra Neo with an outboard power supply. That’s what I use into a Chord Qutest via USB. It’s not too expensive ($1200), works and sounds great and is Roon Ready plus a large number of other connection options included. Unlike Lumin or Auraiic it doesn’t come with a player software, just ways to connect to all the favorite kinds of players over the network.
It’s basically a small, silent Linux computer optimized for audio that becomes part of a wired Ethernet network and outputs clean USB with a solid clock. The OS is on an SD card but you don’t really have to do much but select which player software you want to use.
I have the LUMIN A1 which has an external power supply. It’s extremely quiet and has a very dynamic sound. The chassis is solid billet aluminum and gas pretty substantial weight to it. The app interface is pretty good and there’s occasional updates that automatically come via the network. I think the built in DAC is very good although you said you would prefer an outboard a DAC so you could get Lumins streamer only and use your DAC and I’m sure it will sound great. I think it sounds as good as my analog setup but it is different sounding. Rick
Hi James, For stremaing purposes I am symply using a small fanless computer (Zotac ZBox -
https://www.zotac.com/us/product/mini_pcs/overview
) which is hooked on my high-end preamp/dac and further amplified by power amp. I only have minimum software installed on it (windows, DAC drivers, tidal and netflix).
With this setup I can stream all online content (including master quality and 360 Tidal content) as well as all ripped CD's stored on my local NAS. Not to mention that TV set serves as a high-res big screen monitor.
The whole setup works perfectly fine and I see no reason to spent thousands of bucks on fancy streamers, provided of course, that you have a very good DAC/ pream down the stream. The only possible upgrade I would see is perhaps better power supply.
We use and recommend Lumin network streamers. Besides being very high quality, the hardware and software is designed and built like a real high-end consumer electronics (CE) product similar to most other audio hardware people buy.
Looks like everyone has forgotten the request of this post. Apart from the Mytek Brooklyn mentioned, nothing above comes close to the iFi Audio PRO iDSD, a true "Swiss-Army knife" unit that sounds incredible. I put it up against many DACs listed above in a Pepsi-Challenge...well under your $3500 budget. Has a tube stage that can be bypassed, streams, wi-fi etc....but apart from all it sound incredible. I own two as I have an ATC system in my office and a McIntosh system in my living room / main listening area.
I was using the Auralic Aries G1 and then G2 with a Hugo TT2 and they were both great. I found it a bigger improvement than the mscaler. I have since upgraded to the dCS Bartok which I find better than the my old setup by a large margain. Also maybe look for a used dcs network bridge.
https://volumio.org/get-started/ Volumio doing great on my Raspberry Pi 3b+ hooked to my Rega DAC-R, below 10% CPU usage for FLAC HiRes playback. Super-easy setup!
@bfleetwood Put all on DAC, the streamer just does bits in / out and it provides interfaces for DAC, control and input/output. The DAC makes the Digital to Analog conversion, not the streamer!
@sfseay What "break in" are you talking about? The Bricasti is
just taking bits on network, de-encapsulate / uncompress the payload and
send it out to DAC. It's as simple as that, just digital bits in and
out, no more no less. No
I’m entering the discussion late, but I am still perplexed about the whole streamer/DAC issue. A few months ago, I A/B’d my Bluesound Node 2 streamer with the Aurender N100 running through the DAC in my Hegel H190. I wanted to love the Aurender because I could have bought it for a great price. I confess that the build quality of the Aurender, but try as I might, I could detect no difference in sound quality over a broad spectrum of music. I ultimately decided to stick with the Bluesound. I have since upgraded my system and am streaming my Bluesound Node 2 into a Chord Qutest DAC that connects with a Prima Luna preamp that are run by an old, but sweet, YBA Passion 400 Amp. My speakers are Harbeth 30.2s. I love my system, but am still wonder, as all Of us crazy audiophiles do, whether the holy grail of streamers will make a difference. I should add by the way, that I have the Bluesound Node 2 running through the Chord DAC and also streaming through its own DAC into the PL. I notice more air in the Chord, but can’t say it knocks my socks off. All of this is predicate to the question of how much to streamers and DACs really matter. To the extent that A/B’ing is the closest I can get to a scientific assessment, I am left only with questions. And finally, all of this being said, my system still sounds sweet! I am fascinated by all of the discussion and look forward to any thoughts folks might have.
the guy ranting about USB is just plain wrong. Done right, like any other interface, can sound wonderful.
$20K to deliver digital sounds like somebody has more money than sense.
If you want to use Roon why not get the box specifically designed to do that, a Nucleus. Everything about it is designed and optimized to do just that. The software is written specifically to run Roon and as mentioned, you don't have all of that background crap running like a Windows or Osx based system.
For the person having trouble streaming Tidal with Roon that sounds like a one-off issue. I am currently running Roon on a Mac Mini streaming hours at a time with zero hiccups. Are you sure it is a Roon issue or is it an issue with your DIY server? Try one of the other services like Qobuz that have a free trial and see if they have issues.
Well, this thread was interesting to say the least. Lot of talk about USB, but I didn't mention that in my post and that has no baring on my decision considering it's not usually the best connection to begin with.
@ rbstehno could you explain us what do you mean by "usb crap" please? It's just a digital interface and DAC with USB Async mode exists since years... I've listened to many high end sound systems driven by USB DAC including Meitner and the results were stunning... I recycled an Atom mini server for my friend and installed on it Debian + MPD. It is hooked to Ayre QB9, Krell KRC-3, Krell KSA-200s and Dynaudio Speakers: Wow factor is much present!
My equipment: Intel NUC Mini 7i5BNH i5-7260U DDR NUC7i5BNH in the place of a Roon Nucleus that I used to use. My purpose: Using Roon to stream Tidal and mostly to explore for new music. My accompanying DAC a tubed Cary Audio 200ts. With this DAC connected to an Oppo UDP-203 player, I can listen to music either via CD or streamed. The sound quality is great, but I am having issues with Roon streaming Tidal, sometimes it works and sometimes not, i.e., sometimes Roon just cannot make Tidal play. I noticed the reference here to using Spotify by others. Does Spotify have the same sound quality as Tidal, where if you upgrade to 19.99 a month, you get hi resolution quality? But insights on how to get Roon proprietary software to mesh with Tidal software would be an eye opener, if you can fill that in. Cheers.
Raspberry Pi + Volumio + Spotify plugin. Total: 125$ including metal case and Samsung EVO Micro-SD card.
Volumio is using standard and ultra-flexible MPD (Music Player Daemon). I’ve used it since many years. It has nice Web interface, and since it’s mpd, i can use any mpd client with it: I have on on my cell, ncmpcpp (shell based) on my Linux laptop, etc. The raspberry is plugged on my Rega DAC-R and works perfectly. I listen 95% FLAC, 5% online streaming.
When visiting the XFI Premium hifi show in Holland late last year I found myself in the a room that Aurender and dCS were sharing. I eventually managed to chat to two guys together each representing their respective companies. This turned into a lengthy conversation because there was much I did not understand and surprisingly even the Aurender rep. agreed that the dCS Network Bridge was superior. A stranger joined our little group who owned a dCS N/B and claimed he extensively auditioned at home a few top streamers before deciding.
Although I did not get to hear the dCS unit, I did hear on more than one occasion in other rooms, an Aurender being used to demo some very expensive kit. Some of this was mesmerising and decided that day to look out for a used Network Bridge. I returned home and immediately set about checking out reviews on the net. All of them rave about it.
the Oppo players have ability to stream Tidal and you can use an outboard DAC if needed. sound very good. i still prefer flac files stored on a hard drive to streaming. i don’t see the point in spending thousands just to hear the White Album again. however i can see the point in exploring a lot of new music. but for SQ maybe i am missing something? if so how does streaming trump physical media?
Owl-did you read the review of the innuous in last months TAS? It wasn’t that great, it came across as a work in progress review. when was the last time you auditioned a Mac mini using Ethernet to a great dac? Probably never. Like I mentioned earlier, most of the people doing $5k-$15k servers are hooking them up To a dac using usb and trying to get usb to sound good. Also, these same people are putting these servers in their audio room so they have to perform tricks to keep everything silent.
What???? Oh boy don't agree but to each their own. I used a Mac a while and thought it was pretty good until I tried some other options. The computer's background processes create a ton of noise and so do the power supplies which feed back into your electrical grid. Why does Taiko Extreme sell like hotcakes for $20,000 or the Innuous Statement for $15k? Because they sound better. To OP: Lumin U1 Mini. Love mine! Versatile and quiet which is way better than the Mac I used to use - its more settled and quiet. More of a high end source than a computer.
$4k for a computer? The only reason why somebody would do this IMO is because they are stuck using usb and they need to get the best performance possible out of a flawed interface. SSD for music, also overkill. Again, the only reason for using ssd is because you need to place a server in your audio room and you need to have the system as quiet as possible. Save the $4k, get a 5-8 year old Mac with an internal 500GB ssd to run roon, get a good couple of TB drives to store music on and for backup (or create your own raid 1), and place in t anywhere in your house except the audio room. Then go get a great dac That has an Ethernet connection and you will be in good shape. If you buy any proprietary server, who is going to support this? If you buy an Apple, thousands of Apple geniuses in person or on the phone can help. If you buy a proprietary server which probably runs some kind of Linux OS, how are you going to backup the attached disks, and worse, how are you going to restore your ripped data if a disk crashes (ssd or hdd disk will crash). There are quite a few people that promote this on different sites
My Lumin U1 mini works exceptionally well with my Chord Qutest as a Roon endpoint streaming Qobuz or local files from my MacBook or Qobuz or local files from my iPhone Lumin App... It just always works...
I’d look hard at a used Aurender ACS10 which has a built in ripper and sounds great. Excellent build and the operating program is great. It’s an elegant solution if it fits your bill but it will need to be used to be near budget.
For under $3.5k? Easy, just get Node 2i for $500 and enjoy the $3k you save. Seriously. You need good user interface and functionality, such as ability to integrate with streaming services, external disk, user interface to play your selections. Like @rbstehno said, this is just a specialized computer. $3.5 is more than you'd pay for the newest full-featured MacBook Pro!
Me...I'm on the cheap side of things. If I was looking for something which is a pure streamer, I would probably go with a Zen Mini and add the power supply. Darko loved it......
Just James, Here's a suggestion. Keep the Metrum Ambre. There is an SD card inside with Roon on it that can be changed to an SD card with one of many streaming programs or services.Take $3299.99 and buy a Sonnet Morpheus DAC. You will be blown away! This is the engineer/owner of Metrum's new company. (Cees Ruetenburg) A continuation of his R2R technology. Same I2S connection as Ambre. Then sell the Onyx and pocket the cash!
Why. Not build your own machine for several reasons much higher parts quality such as a a Jcat Femto clock usb card, a Jcat net card, SS hard drives a external Linear power supply .fanless heatpipe case like Synology or other cases. Mojo Audio build hot rod - best name brand parts to whatever you require it could cost up to $4k . Ben at Mojo Audio knows Digital very well his quality and sonics with dacs, and servers is very well known in the industry and have won many show awards. We have dissected several name brand streamers even at $4-5 grand + and average at best parts .I don’t see dual Femto clocks in other products at this price or parts quality even close .like Sparkos Descreet opamps ,Vishay naked resistors.Mojo Audio without question build great Linear power supplies in all their products, no switch mode power supplies. look up Belleson Super regulators ,the best out there .a seperate linesr power supply is critical to get the best sound and isolates the bower supply from the sensitive digital section. Like seperates ,you can put more quality in it. in my dac alone there is 9 Belleson regulators, very $$ In the powersupply ,plus Mundorf 4 pole capacitors. Made in USA 45 day return policy on mojo design ,5 year warranty and modular,updatable .apples to apples ,no dealer mark up,all the money is going into the build. Who else out there offers this ? Nobody I know of .check them out .
Not sure about "best", I only know I am using a NUC7i5 with the ROCK operating system (provided for free by Roon) housed in Akasa Newton S7 Fanless case for 7th Generation Intel NUC Boards. It was challenging building, but fun and if you can follow instructions very doable. If it looks too hard then Nucleus (same operating system and uses a NUC) essentially does this for you. I am not looking back (totally satisfied), just a solid utility (just need to turn it on) that works really well; around $600 all in. https://kb.roonlabs.com/ROCK:_Getting_Started
Snafujg, I’ve got a Terminator as well and like you am curious about the I2S input. Currently running a Roon Nucleus usb and sounds great to me, but curious about I2S. Anyone see an upside to I2S over USB? Also, are dedicated streamers better than my Nucleus? Not trying to hijack the thread but maybe the Nucleus is a good option for OP.
Have a look at the Antipodes range. The onboard DAC is pretty good although you’ve said you don’t need it. I don’t use it but it’s there if required. Prices are NZ dollars so the US exchange rate makes them very attractive. Their after sales service/support is brilliant
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