Little help with REL subwoofers, please?

Ha! Yes, the crossover was easily sold without a loss. I enjoyed having it; i's a neat piece of kit. I've always held off on equalization (if only because ... one more thing) but I hear you. Maybe the time has come. Any recommendations? 

@northman  I hope you were able to return that $3K crossover for the $2K subwoofer. For about the same outlay the F110 would have been the way to go.

Equalization is what would have allowed you to easily enjoy that Organ pedal and the Cathedral regardless of main speakers or your room size. At -6dB no, their not even remotely in the same league.

At the bottom of it all one's satisfaction is paramount. All the best.    

Sure, I do understand that. My room is just a bit over 250 sq feet, so I'm not trying to reproduce St Patrick's Cathedral. I'd simply like to introduce some rumblier lows without creating new problems (or introducing new lows to my bank account). 

Classical organ music goes down to 16 Hz. That is a 32 foot organ pedal. The REL T series will not approach that type of response. 

I had a JL E110. I had it dialed in pretty nicely in another room with other speakers. Moving into this smaller room and changing to the Maggies ... just didn't work. I used a CR-1; bass traps; the subwoofer crawl; and lots of different placement attempts. I thought it was a fine sub and super fun but I couldn't make it consistently work, especially for more demanding music. That's undoubtedly on me--but there comes a time to try something else. The two small RELs aren't in the same league as the JL but they sound much better! 

As is obvious, I not especially knowledgable about subwoofers or the physics of sound. Reading around the internet about Maggies and subs is dizzying. (I should add that I've owned Maggies on and off for thirty years.) I think I'm just going to have to take a leap and do some experimenting....

Not sure if the OP just ordered the T9's or not but I have tried them all in pairs and I was shocked at how much more I preferred the T5's over any of them simply because of their active down-firing and for even less money than a single T9 you can have a pair of 5's. Regardless of the stats claims, I preferred the T5's because the down-firing was just more impactful and far more effortless while the others had to work harder to produce bass impact. I just could never feel the same bass with the others. For pipe organs I would not expect the T zeros to deliver. There doesn't seem to be mention of floor material. Since my floors are hardwood, they generate their own resonance in a good way so I went with the Tzeros instead of the T5's. Despite claims of 12" subs, they are too slow for great musicality and on the rare occasions of pipe organ they may deliver but for overall music, there's just no need for all that in my experiences with music. If people are into thunderous bass for movies and stuff, I get it but for pure musicality, forget it. We have the Magnepan 1.7i's and LRS plus.

@northman      Which model JL Audio subwoofer did you use and how did you determine its exact position in your room? 

Thank you all. 

@sns: right on! I hope you do a follow-up post somewhere out here on your experience with the two T9s. 

@audiorusty, thank you--that may be the most accessible explanation of standing waves, and the link was very helpful. I especially appreciate your explanation of why having multiple subs with different ranges may not work as seamlessly as I had hoped.

@mijostyn, wow--I can only imagine the bass you're getting with that approach. I appreciate that you're thinking about live recordings and recreating the effect of large venues. I'm an old Deadhead and I can remember some "Phil bombs" that were unnerving in their effect. 

Forget about specs. They are severely misleading. As you note deep bass is not about hearing, it is about feeling. In this regard there is no substitute for surface area. The minimum in most rooms is two 12" subs to get solidly down to 20 Hz. I want some usable output at 15 Hz Consequently, I use 8 12" drivers. Large venues breath at very low frequencies. There is also signal down that low in movies. So, live music recordings and movies require the same capabilities. One sub alone is never a good solution. Two 12" drivers, Four 12" or two 15", eight 12" or Four 15". The last group is the largest required in the usual residential situation. 2 way crossovers are mandatory, digital bass management with delay capability and room control will give the best performance. 

You can try a T9x or a T7x to see what happens. Hopefully you can get them on a trial basis. As long as neither sub can reproduce the offending frequency of the room with enough power you should be good to go, but if either of the subs can reproduce the offending frequency (standing wave) you will still have the same issue with boomy bass.

In a multi sub system, the subs do not need to be exactly the same but it is best if they all have a similar range. For example; lets say that one of your rooms standing waves is 29 Hz. if you have three or more subs placed around your room reproducing that 29 Hz. frequency, those wave forms will interfere with each other in such a way that the spots in the room where that 29 Hz. was loud will now be softer and where it was too quiet should now be louder, thus smoothing out the 29 Hz. peak throughout the room, making the room less boomy. IOW if one or more of the subs in your system cannot reproduce the offending frequency they cannot contribute to the solution.

Here is an article about room acoustics and boomy bass you may find helpful.

https://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/listening-room-acoustics-1#_ftn2

I've tried a number of subs over the years, even with dsp could never get coherent sound with main speakers. With dsp the problem wasn't so much with boom, but rather timing with main speakers, always a step behind or slow, once heard could never be unheard.

So, buying into Rel philosophy I recently purchased two T9X, last night first listening session with them. So, first impressions, first time I've heard coherence from subs with main speaker! Improvement in sense of sound stage ambience most noticeable change. bass extension more subtle with my Klipschorns. Perhaps it was recordings I played last night, but there was no earth shaking, wall rattling bass, just a bit of extension and fullness on bottom end, really integrated well with my initial settings on crossover and level. This bass performance quite different from my Wyred 4 Sound Genesis clone sub, which has the more spectacular, impactful bass sound.

Thanks, @audiorusty. I'm sure you're right about the room; I could never tame that JL, even with an external crossover, some room treatments, and all kinds of fussing. Boomy, as you say, and sluggish sounding.

I've read that multiple subwoofers don't need to match each other, but would those small REL Tzeros help "balance" something bigger like the T/9? 

I like my current sound ... I just want deeper bass, not "more" bass. I may just buy a T/9 or T/7 and add it to the mix. We'll see! 

Classical organ can cycle very low. To reproduce frequencies below 40 Hz. takes insane amounts of power and when you factor in that our ears are not as sensitive to lower frequencies the task can become particularly difficult. I’m not sure that even the T9x  has the range or the power to deliver what you are looking for but even if it does I’m guessing that you will run into the same issue with that as you did with the JL sub. My opinion is the problem you experienced with the JL sub was not due to the sub but due to your room. The JL sub had enough power and range to reproduce the notes but in the process probably also excited room nodes at certain frequencies making the bass somewhat boomy and out of control. To deal with that issue you need either multiple subs, room treatments, some type of e.q. or some combination of the three.