Thanks, @deep_333. Since your post yesterday, I've actually spent a few hours reading about the F8. It looks like a neat sub and offers some appealing controls (not all of which I understand). A few comments have called it "niche," and there aren't many reviews of it, but I like what I've read and it's clear that Rythmik has a superb reputation. And my system might indeed be exactly that niche. At 65 lbs, it's on the edge of what I can comfortably deal with, which is a consideration for me. Perhaps I'll wait to hear what my ortho says about my knee next week....
I will also take a look at the KEFs. For the moment, I'm enjoying the process of opening up my options, learning about different companies, and even exploring dsp and bass management. At some point, though, I'll just have to take the leap... I remain appreciative of everyone's help!
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@deep_333, thank you for the suggestions. I've spent the last couple days reading about Rythmik subs. I'm impressed by what I read about both the F12 and the F8, but at 65-75lbs, they may be too heavy for me--but I appreciate the recommendation.
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Message received, @mijostyn! As long as the can opener doesn't require an app, I'm good.
@jeenam: thank you. I'm not sure how far I'll take any of this, but I'll explore the territory for as long as it's fun.
Again, thank you to everyone who replied. I feel encouraged by all the excellent advice.
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@jjss49, that's incredibly generous of you! I'm in Vermont, so not quite local, but I greatly appreciate the thought. I took a look at your impressive system(s) and I can imagine borrowing all kinds of things from you!
@sns, it's great to hear about your listening session. Fantastic. My own listening sessions have started to feel a little less amazing lately, coincidentally right around the time that I launched this thread. Go figure.
Ishmael, recognizing that the book we call Moby-Dick is but a draft, a draft of a draft, says, "God keep me from ever completing anything ... Oh, Time, Strength, Cash, and Patience!" That pretty much sums up the audiophile world to me....
For what it's worth, I just downloaded the REW and ordered the umik-1. As I said above, I'm curious. In the meantime, happy listening to y'all.
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Thanks, @audiorusty. I'm sure you're right about the room; I could never tame that JL, even with an external crossover, some room treatments, and all kinds of fussing. Boomy, as you say, and sluggish sounding.
I've read that multiple subwoofers don't need to match each other, but would those small REL Tzeros help "balance" something bigger like the T/9?
I like my current sound ... I just want deeper bass, not "more" bass. I may just buy a T/9 or T/7 and add it to the mix. We'll see!
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@jeenam -- Great stuff. A few others have also recommended Rythmik subs. I'm going to take a look and, ideally, a listen. It means opening the search up rather than narrowing it down, but that's a good thing (until it's not). Thank you.
@ronboco and @drlou77 -- thank you both. The S series could be just the ticket but it's quite a bit more expensive. I imagine it's brilliant.
@sslbun -- I loved your (first!) post. That Richter track is one of my favorites as well, and that moment when the bass comes in always makes me smile. It's something that needs to be felt. You have a major-league system and I appreciate that you stayed with the challenge until you got it right. I bet it sounds AMAZING.
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Thank you all.
@sns: right on! I hope you do a follow-up post somewhere out here on your experience with the two T9s.
@audiorusty, thank you--that may be the most accessible explanation of standing waves, and the link was very helpful. I especially appreciate your explanation of why having multiple subs with different ranges may not work as seamlessly as I had hoped.
@mijostyn, wow--I can only imagine the bass you're getting with that approach. I appreciate that you're thinking about live recordings and recreating the effect of large venues. I'm an old Deadhead and I can remember some "Phil bombs" that were unnerving in their effect.
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I had a JL E110. I had it dialed in pretty nicely in another room with other speakers. Moving into this smaller room and changing to the Maggies ... just didn't work. I used a CR-1; bass traps; the subwoofer crawl; and lots of different placement attempts. I thought it was a fine sub and super fun but I couldn't make it consistently work, especially for more demanding music. That's undoubtedly on me--but there comes a time to try something else. The two small RELs aren't in the same league as the JL but they sound much better!
As is obvious, I not especially knowledgable about subwoofers or the physics of sound. Reading around the internet about Maggies and subs is dizzying. (I should add that I've owned Maggies on and off for thirty years.) I think I'm just going to have to take a leap and do some experimenting....
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Sure, I do understand that. My room is just a bit over 250 sq feet, so I'm not trying to reproduce St Patrick's Cathedral. I'd simply like to introduce some rumblier lows without creating new problems (or introducing new lows to my bank account).
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Ha! Yes, the crossover was easily sold without a loss. I enjoyed having it; i's a neat piece of kit. I've always held off on equalization (if only because ... one more thing) but I hear you. Maybe the time has come. Any recommendations?
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@mijostyn , You "sat"? Haha. My most memorable bass experience ever was in the Phil Zone. Boston Garden. I felt like my throat was closing off, I could barely breathe. My friend turned to me with a look of wonder and small alarm. Gone are the days (though perhaps they can be reproduced in my small garret of a room?).
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Thanks, @jjss49 -- that's sage and practical advice, and I've been leaning that way. You're right about the used market; I've been keeping my eye out.
But what does "be done" mean? I've never heard that phrase out here.
Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful advice!
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@mijostyn
Right on! Great to hear about the Smashing Pumpkins show, and good call on the ear protection. I looked into custom ear protection about a year ago but never followed up.
I no longer live in Boston but have moved on up ... to the west side ... and I now live in Vermont. I think I've only been to the "new" Garden once, to see the Stones on their 50th Anniversary tour, back when they were youngsters. I haven't forsaken music, though. After Jerry died, I eventually found my way to Phish (which is easy to do in VT) and have seen them many times at MSG. And I'll be back in Boston in a month for a classical concert at Jordan Hall. So the music never stopped...
I'm interested in dsp, but every time I look into it, I get overwhelmed. I do enjoy a project, though, and maybe it's time to take a harder look. I'm drawn to the miniDSP gear.
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Thank you all--really. I value this site for the experience and knowledge of the community but sometimes there's too much talking and not enough listening. However, each of you in this thread has been thoughtful, insightful, and very helpful. Rather than feel overwhelmed, I am left with the conviction that there are a number of viable paths and workable options--even for the conundrum of Maggies + subwoofers.
@mijostyn -- thank you. I've spent a couple hours now learning about dsp, with particular attention to MiniDSP. "Idiot proof" is apparently what I need. I'm definitely interested. I will say that the explanations get very technical, very fast.
@jeenam -- I hear you on Rythmik, and the appreciation/criticism of REL. I've read both many times, and I know that Rythmik has a stellar reputation out here. I'm going to look into them more, definitely. Thank you.
@sns -- yes, certainly, 95% of the time that philosophy is just exactly what I want. My experience with subwoofers is very limited but I'm inclined toward a pair as well. I know that the T/9X isn't really big in the world of subs, but I still wonder if a pair of them would be too much in my small room. (Also ... small budget.) For what it's worth, REL recommends the T/9 (single or double) with the 1.7is, the S series for the bigger Maggies.
I've been smiling about @jjss49 's suggestion to get the T/7s and "be done." I know he's right, at least in the short term. But part of me wants to let this percolate a bit, try a few subs, bang my head against the DSP wall, and enjoy the ride a bit longer....
Again, thank you all!
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Thanks again, all. Although I realize that we’re talking about a relatively modest purchase here,I still feel lucky to be considering the options. I don’t need any convincing about pairing subs; that’s my plan. And I’m going to buy new, with the option to return, though I can see the Rythmik "Christmas" F12 for sale out here. I’ve learned the hard way that it’s important for me to try before committing.
@mijostyn , I’ll keep looking over the MiniDSP info. You may know the old Groucho Marx line from Duck Soup: "Clear? Why, a four year old child could understand this report!" Then as an aside: "run out and find me a four year old child. I can’t make head or tail of it." I feel that way with much so-called "technology." I get brain fog trying to understand tech-speak. Also, I guess I’ve always been rather old-school about audio: less is more.
I know that I’m hijacking my own thread but I’ll keep going, with a simple question. I’m curious to learn more about dsp, room eq, and bass management with a pair of subs. (I fooled around with Roon DSP but didn’t get very far.) I have a Bryston streamer and Bryston dac; they may not be the last word in electronics but they work just fine for me. I’ve been using a small green computer Sonictransporter, which also works fine for me. I mostly stream these days. Can you recommend a miniDSP product that would do what I want (room eq + subwoofer management/crossovers) without requiring me to swap out my dac, music player, or streaming computer? It looks to me like both the FLEX and the SHD or SHD STUDIO would be partly redundant and/or require me to rethink the sources in my system. Maybe the DDRC24 (with dac?) or DDRC22D? To be clear, I’m not asking for a tutorial, just a sign-post to direct me to the right product. From there, I can make my way. (I also can see that REL doesn’t play easily with miniDSP unless one foregoes the high-level cable connection. That is, it doesn’t look easy to control the speakers and subs independently with that high-level connection.) Again, at this point I'm just curious, so there's no need for long explanations. THANK YOU!
Edit: @jjss49 -- I just saw your post. I get it. I hear you. I’m with you! And ... I’m on it!
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@deep_333, YES. I was thinking along the same lines. Great suggestion!
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Thanks to you both. I bet many can relate to this: I was moving forward on the subwoofer path, closing in ... and then life stepped in. In the last five days we've had two major weather events here in northern Vermont where I live, and my house and property took a serious hit. I'm now waiting on the repair estimates before I return to the more pleasurable audio prospects. Obviously the lesson is: don't delay the fun purchases!
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