After doing some research I found Littlefuse sells AUDIO/MEDICAL quality fuses Series 285 they are all slo-blow, buy come in various sizes including 5x20
With the cost being less than $10, has anybody tried these over $100 "Audiophile" brands?
What are your thoughts on Speaker cables or interconnects? Larger diameter cables are better so 2/0 welding wire should be great to use, but they sound like crud. So what is it then?
Large diameter cables with the same geometry lower R & marginally change L&C. When calculating impedance, L&C are squared terms while R is linear. see http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/CableSnakeOil.php
I'll bet your entire rig that if you let someone change fuses randomly without your knowledge, you will not detect any change. There are a lot of loonies in the audio field on both sides of the counter.
If the fuses or holders are ChiCom crap, replace them with Buss, Littelfuse, Osram or other reputable makes.
How often have foolzers left their gear connected for a year, decided to try a fuse, unplugged a bunch of connectors and presto the fuse is 'magic'.
If everyone would replug all their cables every few months, they would also transform their systems. If the system has fuses, reseat them as well. Ditto tubes.
I recently helped a fellow repair a tube amp he'd picked up for a song by simply replugging all the tubes a few times. Connectors are crap. Gold or otherwise.
Many speakers have internal push on terminals. Some are less than stellar quality. Pull your speakers apart and solder all internal connections.
Nonoise, Yes, a little bit. It just gets old after a while. After reading what equipment he's using (on another thread), I'll cut him some slack for not hearing a difference with fuses & being satisfied with his $9 interconnects though.
I am sure $9 cables would not do much for any system including a Mid-fi, Its too bad that blanket statements are made without the substance of experimentation. I holding off on the fuses for a few months. In order to upgrade my power condition system to Shunyata Delta with cables first.
George and Cakyol , I am sure you will say power is power. It will not make any difference, Right?
@boxer12, My comment was meant for cakyol and not for you. You just got your post up before mine. 😄 I was wondering if his gear was resolving enough and now that you've cleared that up, it makes a lot of sense.
I holding off on the fuses for a few months. In order to upgrade my power condition system to Shunyata Delta with cables first.
George and Cakyol , I am sure you will say power is power. It will not make any difference, Right?
I know this will go over your head, and someone will put some "snake oil" spin on it, but here goes. Do not put your amp/s on this power conditioning, as it will introduce a series resistance, and the whole point of have a very stiff "unregulated" amp power supply, means the lowest possible series resistance between the amps supply caps/output transistors and the wall outlet. Ok for source equipment though, as they have regulated supplies and don’t really see that series resistance
This quote says it all, to bad these close minded people continue to pollute the community and ad Nothing positive.. this is why the world is like it is now days. “Less harmless are those audio enthusiasts who are least secure:
those whose toxic rage at a world that does not accept the authority of
their opinions—a world that persists in enjoying recorded music in ways
of which they do not approve—accomplishes nothing other than making our
hobby seem repellant.”
georgehifi - your assumption is that all power conditioners add resistance. But let us assume you are correct. How much resistance? Resistance is always a factor including the cheap power cords used.
But let us go down the bunny trail and say you have a 15amp RMS supply from the wall outlet. There as very few power amplifiers manufactured regardless of price or topology that will exceed 5 amps RMS at full volume. But even if our system has a maximum draw of 10 amps (which is a lot) and your power conditioner adds a hypothetical resistance adding a 1/4 amp draw. Would you have an issue?
A bigger issue is fast transient signals that exceed the short term capabilities of your amps power supply. This voltage drop in milliseconds adds audible distortion, particularly in a premium system. The combination of a high-quality power conditioner and high-quality power cords noise is to suppress noise.
A bigger issue is fast transient signals that exceed the short term capabilities of your amps power supply. This voltage drop in milliseconds adds audible distortion, particularly in a premium system. The combination of a high-quality power conditioner and high-quality power cords noise is to suppress noise.
Nonsense. The line frequency is TOTALLY UNRELATED to program demand. The power supply diodes conduct ONLY at the PEAK of the AC line waveform. The capacitor bank supplies the DC. If the capacitor bank voltage drops below output demand, distortion occurs in the output stage. Input stages have typically have secondary regulators and run at lower voltages than output stages.
A power conditioner may remove some HF noise from the line if there is any. Regardless of noise, it will add impedance to the power transformer / AC line interface. For lower power devices like sources and control units, no biggy. For high current devices, the effect varies with the line and transformer impedances AND THE DEMAND. Take home a few power conditioners and a few amps. The number of combinations is PwrCon X Amps. Some improve, some don’t, some have no effect. Move to another location and the game starts anew.
I love it. We have a "do the math" and an " over my head" guy. Look if your happy with what you have great. Let others who have the experience with power conditioners provide content.
Let others who have the experience with power conditioners provide content.
I said power conditioners are good for source equipment sunshine. But like I said an amp to sound it's best especially in the bass it's power supply has to be as stiff as it can be. By adding any sort of power conditioner between it and the wall outlet introduces some series resistance and reduces that stiffness further. Remember forest and trees.
When I moved and changed amplifiers, it made no difference as the amp has excellent filtering capability and my local power is not LA DWP garbage. It’s now a very expensive power strip to control the HT.
Brubin, I have no experience with the power conditioner you mentioned but run my mono blocks through an Audience power conditioner. Everything else goes through an exactpower transformer & Acoustic Revive power strips. It works well & sounds terrific.
You really have no idea, do you. At 23 posts all about fuses your heading down the wrong path .
Myself and others here have tried to give you good info, and you tossed it away because it went against the voodoo snake oil fusers rubbish that you really wanted to hear, and got angry about it, your just another sorry fuser, who can’t see the forest through the trees, goodby.
My dear old Nan often counselled "A fool and his money are soon separated"
George, others and I are trying to help you keep yours. As engineers and audiophiles with countless years investigating audio phenomena, we have a pretty good idea on what is buckwheat.
The fuse phenomena, and innumerable other tweaks, are easily explained by connector rejuvenation and other non-Merlinic majic.
Cables are easily explained by reasonably simple math. However, few bother. When perceived performance was less than expected, "burn in" was invented. What is happening likely connector related, outgassing and oxidation. After the prescribed NNN hours, the sound changes. Replug them and start over.
Decades before burn in was discovered, professional electronics and recording engineers were refreshing contacts. Some studios went so far as to solder every possible connection for the absolute degradation minima.
I'll pose the same question, as well as my observations here, hoping for an answer: The Naysayer Doctrine (a faith-based religion) clearly has it’s roots deeply embedded in, "measurements" and, "engineering experience". I’d be interested in hearing what (if any) measurements have been taken and/or what experiments have been conducted, by the Naysayer Evangelists, or their Popes, that aren’t based on an Engineering/Physics understanding of electricity/electromagnetism from the 19th Century (ie: Ohm, Maxwell, Faraday, etc). The same cult was taking shots at Nikola Tesla, back in his day!
https://nextexx.com/2020/06/18/why-do-scientists-hate-tesla/
He still managed to take the world, kicking and screaming into the 20th Century, with his inventions. A good read: https://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Invented-Twentieth-Century/dp/148122980X
^ What NEW properties are discovered that invalidate the old?
We naysayers have all heard audible changes without changing anything.
Claimed changes are all explainable by pedestrian, non-exotic effects. Purveyors and aficionados make extravagant claims without any scientific or engineering support other than their say-so.
The proponents frequent resort to denigrating the naysayers ability to hear in spite of their
decades of proven ability.
"What NEW properties are discovered that invalidate the old?" Is it that you have no comprehension, can’t read, or chose to ignore the obvious truths stated in the piece on Science/Tesla, I provided? More likely: you never read it. Perhaps, you have absolutely no knowledge of 20th Century Physics, at all? Typical of the Naysayer, you’ve changed the subject. OK: When have you ever, "proven" your, "ability" to hear, to ME? All you Naysayers have to offer, is your faith-based religion and, "TRUST ME!" Those offering 30 Day, Money Back, Satisfaction Guarantees, are enabling people to conduct experiments, in their own homes, with their own systems and ears. That’s with no risk of financial loss, an eternal damnation, or- need of the Naysayer Doctrine’s salvation. Gotta admit; you snake-oil handling, religious fanatics can be amusing. Kind of like a Greek tragicomedy.
We naysayers have all heard audible changes without changing anything.
That can happen.
Purveyors and aficionados make extravagant claims without any scientific or engineering support other than their say-so.
This is a hobbyist's site, not a scientific forum, so no one here is obligated to provide any scientific proof to you. Of course, that doesn't mean that you can't offer some evidence of your own.
I don't mind people saying it does not work - unless they never tried it. Short of crystals on equipment, if someone tried to upgrade their fuses or power system and did not receive positive results then share the details. Provide details of the experiment - what system did they try it with, including Amp, Pre-amp, source, cable information. What are the variables of your testing? "It was a different sound, but I did not like it" is valid data.
It’s also not a "snake oil" or "voodoo" forum. BTW It’s in the "Technical forum"!
Everyone’s pieces of audio equipment was designed by "Electronic Engineers" that used all the laws of electronics to design and measure them, and if you have any piece that wasn’t, your a fool for buying it. Show one of these "EE’s" statements that back up the "sound differences" heard by the snake oil fusers here.
@Admin is it possible for Audiogon to have a new forum called, "Snake Oil" forum for those strange expensive products that some say they can hear huge benefits, that can’t be explained by respected Audio Engineers.
Once again: the Wonder From Down Under (a Naysayer Doctrine, snake-oil handler, extraordinaire) offers nothing of value, in 500 words or less, to a thread (always failing to surprise).
Funny how he attempts to speak like he’s some kind of authority when it couldn’t be farther from the truth. He hangs out here, perusing the threads, waiting to pounce like a stalker.
His only comeback is his vaudevillian act. All he has is a quiver with only a few arrows that keep missing the mark, so he resorts to insults from having lost the argument oh so many threads ago.
I am going to try another point of view. Follow me on this path to see where we end up.
I believe we can all agree that not all speakers produce the same sound or perform the same way, correct? Yes. Why? They have the same fundamental components, tweeter, mid and bass drivers, and crossover. Quality parts and design make difference - Agree? Yes.
Same with your AMP, pre-amp, source equipment (phono, DAC etc) Agree? Yes.
So why is there a belief that speaker cables and interconnects are not thought to be the same? Why should we not treat them as integral system components? I propose that they do make a difference, how do I know? because I tried it. If you agree on cables then why not power conditioners or fuses etc. Ultimately, the goal is the sound improvement. Why does it work? Because it is the reduction of distortion in the sound signal.
"So why is there a belief that speaker cables and interconnects are not thought to be the same? Why should we not treat them as integral system components? I propose that they do make a difference, how do I know? because I tried it. If you agree on cables then why not power conditioners or fuses etc. Ultimately, the goal is the sound improvement. Why does it work? Because it is the reduction of distortion in the sound signal." EXACTLY! The goal of the Naysayer Doctrine and it’s preachers, is to prevent you from experimenting on your own. The TRUTH might actually set you free, from their antiquated pablum. Your ears and a Satisfaction Guarantee are the greatest danger to their cult’s existence. Then again; we are supposed to be free to choose our own religion!
"So why is there a belief that speaker cables and interconnects are not thought to be the same?
Really!! you really don’t know, they have EE laws and measurements, things like resistance, inductance, and capacitance. A fuse is just a 1/2" of piece or wire in a glass tube with none of these measurements that mean anything, just like all the pcb tracks on a circuit board inside you audio equipment.
The TRUTH might actually set you free. Your ears and a Satisfaction Guarantee are the greatest danger to their cult’s existence
All fusers have is expectation bias, from spending >$160 on a 50c fuse
No you got that wrong, it’s more like don’t trust the "snake oil" or voodoo that fusers preach. Because they don’t have one respected Electronics Engineer that designs
their
hiend audio equipment that will back up their "sonic improvement" findings by posting here.
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