Charles-
listening more often and longer yes. There is more allure in doing so now, and it is more enjoyable all around. It was very obvious before, I did not tolerate long listening well, which is what was telling me I needed to make a change. Listening is more colorful now.
Pdreher-
thank you for letting me know. I am doing some reading up on those two brands of 300b's. as we know it is hard to really go off of others references often with these sorts of things with variables at hand etc. I do see some good talk about both the black treasures and the KR's so far... may decide to snag one or the other from you
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If you are going to be rolling 300B's, I have a pair of KR 300B's I was going to list and I have a pair of Black Treasure's currently listed. Good way to experiment with premium used tubes without breaking the bank. Let me know if you are interested. |
jkull glad to hear you are so happy that's what this hobby is all about! I took a jaunt out too my favorite stereo store yesterday and feel reinvigorated myself! Happy listening and keep us posted if anything changes!
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Hi jkull,
I appreciate your update post. You did make a pretty drastic change in the direction of your audio system (mega watt solid state driving demanding speakers). I’m happy for you that you took a chance with a near polar opposite approach and have found such satisfaction.
Simple circuit lower power amplifiers and efficient easier driven speakers is a very fine option that can provide long term contentment. Do you that you’re listening to music more often and/or for longer listening sessions ? Is there more of an emotional connection to the music? Charles
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Figured a good time to revive and touch back into this thread I created before I even owned the LM219ia. I do not care for focus and sophistication in this post, so I am just going to rant away, lol...
Often an interest in chasing the ideal audio presentation for someone leads to desires to upgrade, downgrade, make lateral moves, experiment, whatever. I've had the amp for idk how many months it's been, have to scroll back to see..... Anyhow
This amp sounds better than ever to me... Without me having to even 'try'. It has opened up, become more liquid, and I am obsessed with how well it sounds through my cornwalls. So balanced. Such excellent separation. And the ability to sound wonderful even at quiet volume levels. The only tube changes are currently WE310A's and telefunken 12AX7's. Eventually I'll probably roll the 300B's next to PSVANE WE reps. I'm in no rush, it isn't even needed.. This amp through my cornwalls is full, present, live sounding, etc.
I'll never utilize a subwoofer again for listening. Full range speakers are so much more balanced. Yes I've played with subs to no end. Big, expensive, nice subs. Never again. In my experience, it creates artificial sound and interference. Maybe for club music or hip hop only, which I don't mess with....
I have found that the simpler the system the better thus far in my experience. My feeings are that, with this being perhaps a 'hobby', sometimes people want to keep buying and buying to better, but it doesn't always work that way, especially in a snake oil industry that wants you to do exactly that.
SET into high efficiency speakers with 'decent' interconnects is officially my cup of tea. And I know that now. Simplicity and ease. And regarding my initial concerns...A set amp in high efficiency speakers does extremely aggressive music with expertise. So much better than my previous 1000w worth of solid state amperage into my B&W towers. Not even comparable.. Looking back.. In comparison. It sounded like a piercing, cluttered, fatiguing mess of sound.
I am very please with this amp and have no intentions of replacing it. Thank you to the members who provided advice to me intitially on the purchase, and resolution to my goals within this thread.
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pixelplay,
Can you describe what you differences you heard in the 518 between just using 12ax7s , and the shift to a 12ax7 coupled with a 5751?
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I am glad that you are all finding out the virtues of the LM gear.
I previously had the 518ia and found that the 12ax7 input tubes are in a configuration that one follows the other with the right hand tube being first. This allows the tubes to be mixed and don't need matched pairs!
I found that the 5751 gold labels black plate to be outstanding mixed with a Mullard 12ax7 long box plate. Strangely Siemens EL34s instead of the 6L6 driving the Psvane WE 1:1 845's. I was using a metal base Mullard 5ar4. After changing the coupling caps to Duelund's and adding Lundahl grid chokes the sound was outstanding compared to an already very good stock unit........
I have since sold the 518ia and bought the LM503pa mono blocks... man are they good! I have changed the coupling caps and added the grid chokes as per the 518ia. Replaced the signal resistors to the new Audio Note silver Tantalum's, they took a long time to burn in to the extent that they were almost un-listenable. It was worth the wait. I was using the Psvane WE845's and have now upgraded to Elrogs (fingers crossed they hold up, however they now come with a 1 year warrantee) This was a very large step up. Driving them I have the Takasuki 300b's and NOS russian 310a's. I look forward to some reviews on the WE NOS 310a's.
I have some Elrog 300b's on order.......
For rectifier duty I am using the Psvane 1:1 WE 274b to good results, however I may change them to sone GEC U52's.
The amps really amaze me driving jbl everest horns with a 2" B&C dcm50 paper compression driver (new take on an old RCA driver) on top of a 15" lenehan built bass box and a Fostex t500amk2 compression high frequency horn!
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The EAR 868 is very highly thought of in the realm of good tube preamplifiers. Quite a compliment for the 219ia preamp section competing so closely.
Walter I'm curious to know how the EML XLS works out as a driver tube in your amplifier. It's splendid as an output tube in my amplifier.
Charles |
Glad to see this thread still active. I am having a real love affair with my 508. The addition of some NOS Sylvania VT231s in place of the Electro Harmonix 6SN7 stock tubes made a significant improvement in refinement and musicality. I just ordered some EML 300B XLS tubes, which I hope will take the amp to even loftier heights. It is truly a fabulous integrated, and it really whips my Daedalus Ulysses speakers into shape. |
I have the 219. Great amp. I played with the 12ax7s but ultimately went back to the stock. The amo is amazing as shipped. I have the rca and telefunkens if I get bored. Also, I have an EAR 868 pre that I use on the direct taps. The sou dstage gets more focused but not better. The LM pre is great. |
"I wasn't able to get that done before "
Well that's a beautiful and concise summation of where the LM 219ia has taken your system and listening enjoyment.
Charles
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Ya I hear the PSVANE WE 845's are great. I wish I knew someone local who would trust me to give them a test drive before committing. I think I would opt to do those next yes. I am very happy with the amp. It really is musical. i won't sit here and use a bunch of adjectives and sound silly, but it really is musical. Their is a hole of relief that the amp fills when I really am in the mood. It might only be 3 times a month when I really really am in a perfect mood where I want to have music move me in a certain way. I wasn't able to get that done before. |
Good decision, you’ll be covered regarding the 310a for many years. It’ll be interesting when you get around to the 300b driver and the 845 output tubes. I have good experience with both especially the 300b. I’ve heard 11 different brands in my SET amplifier (both my own and via "generous " loans from fellow audiogoners). Good 300bs aren’t cheap but the better ones definitely sound terrific.
Granted I’ve only heard the 300b as the output tube and not functioning as a driver tube as in your amplifier. When it comes to the 845 the Psvane W.E Replica was superb in my friend’s Absolare Passion Signature PSET. We both felt that they surpassed his NOSE RCA 845, subjective of course.
As I’ve said before, you Line Magnetic 219ia deserves the best tubes you can comfortably afford. I’m listening to Miles Davis as I type and I feel as though I can reach out and touch the musicians, so real is the sound. A high quality 300b tube in a good amplifier is just natural and beautiful. I believe you can relate to what I mean. The same is true for the 845 tube.
Charles |
Charles-
there was another thread i found. A member who owned a 219ia who stated that the stock 310A's were very good in his opinion. For the $ I got them for I'll leave them in the amp knowing WE tubes are very well constructed and should have a long and reliable life. |
Jkull,
Well that would suggest to me that the stock 310a tubes may be pretty good quality tubes and/or the input stage tube "may not" be as impactful or critical as the preamp section 12AX7 in the 219ia. "You just don’t know until you listen to the various tubes in specific amplifier circuit sites. Your approach is the way to proceed.
Charles |
Charles-
I have had them in my amp since they arrived. I cannot say that I depicted a clear audible change. They've only a couple hours on them thus far and are NOS. I will continue to burn them in. They will remain in the amp as I can only assume that they are of higher caliber than the stock ones. I kept the long plate RCA's and smooth plate telefunkens and sent back the mullards. |
Jkull,
Have you had the opportunity to hear the vintage Western Electric 310a tubes in your 219ia yet?
Charles |
Keep both if you can. They won't get any cheaper or less scarce in the future. |
mechans-
yes i received the mullards. with what comparative listening I've done thus far, the mullards are my least preferred between the RCAs, teles, and mullards.
The mullards i got are the IEC labeled blackburns. Not long plates. It feels the the mullards choke back a bit in sound, compared to the others. Not that they sound bad.
It is between the teles and RCAs. The tele's have the edge in that upper end air, i just have to make sure it is not too much for extended listening. |
Did you get the Mullards? The sound is distinctly different from the Telefunkens. Usually described as warm.
Western Electric tubes are imbued with some c kind of tube magic,or at least that is the common belief. I own a special variant of the 6AS7G the WE 421A. It is indeed a really great tube. The only downside I ran into were worn out tubes. I will not knowingly pass them on to another, as is sometimes the custom with WE I fear. |
Charles-
that is what I am hoping. They are in great shape. Listed as NOS, and seller says they were bought in a large estate sale and that they were first opened just for this listing to take photos. Boxes are mint. |
My hutch based solely on pedigree is that the Western Electric vintage tube in good operating condition should provide an upgrade over the stock LM tube. Speculation ? Yes but you'll settle this very soon 😊.
Charles |
Almarg, with your experience, what would you conclude that I may find?
I have no idea, having no experience with 310A tubes or with LM amplifiers. But it seems like an experiment that is well worth trying. Especially given that based on eBay's listings of completed auctions for 310A tubes you appear to have purchased them at a very nice price, assuming they are as described. So if you end up not caring for their sonics you should be able to sell them for a profit. Enjoy! Regards, -- Al |
Thanks Charles.-
I am looking forward as to seeing what the WE 310's will do sonically. I should have them mon-tues.
Almarg, with your experience, what would you conclude that I may find?
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Hi jkull,
It’s fun reading your fulfilling tube rolling experiences and I know how rewarding and eye opening it can be. I'm very interested to read what degree of change the vintage Western Electric 310a offer. This is the point discussed earlier in this thread, a fundamentally well executed amplifier revealing its true sonic potential with higher quality tube replacement. It is counterproductive to handicap high caliber amplifiers with mediocre level tubes.
You are really moving fast towards genuine top tier home audio sound. You are beyond the previous big SS amplifier setup as you acknowledge. Once you actually experience that pure natural sound quality it becomes impossible to to go back to what you had, there's no looking back. This happened to me as its has with others who've discovered the superior music reproduction of high quality lower power tube amplifiers, particularly SET. I'm happy for your fabulous journey into this special genre. Keep us posted on your continuing and engaging path.
Charles |
Managed to grab a pair of NOS western electric 310A’s from an estate sale on eBay this morning. From the same run of production, new in box, listed for $250 OBO, managed to grab them for just $175. Good timing. Hoping to reap an improvement out of these as well. |
I just turned on some heavy music and the tele's are amazing still. These are i believe a close dated pair as the both have identical printing, diamond labeling and such. Both have a K printed on them. Test at 1460/1350 and 1480/1455. Nice to know these tales are supposed to last forever....... Mullards will come tomorrow, but i dont have faith in them beating out the teles... |
Results with RCA’s and Telefunkens...
-Comparisons are done via CD (oppo 105) through 219ia on integrated mode. Using vinyl would not serve any function as I am still using my marantz 7701 built in phono, thus i would not be utilizing the pre amp of the 219ia with my current vinyl set up. (to be replaced with ZP3 soon).
RCA’s- A pretty noticeable improvement. Soundstage widened, this sounds more open, deeper, more involving. Vocals even more real.
Let amp cool. Roll in the west germany smooth plate telefunkens.
Teles- God forbid. Any even bigger improvement. The vocals are SURREAL. The instruments even more separated, the soundstage huge, everything is smooth and lush. I am blown away right now. Their is so much detail and NOTHING unwanted is present. I do not see how music could sound better than this.
The decision to go with a low powered SET tube amp and horns from large 500w SS mono blocks is 150% rewarded. I will never look back with how things not sound but ’feel’. It is truly not even comparable, my previous setup vs this. It is a world of difference in enjoyment and naturalness. Natural natural natural. I think even my wife will be able to notice this with ease.
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Al- thank you!
-Regarding the other discussion related to repairs. If my 219 ever needs it, it will go to my local guitar amp guys. He specializes in repairing, modifying, restoring valved and SS guitar and bass amps, as well as guitars etc. While audio amplifiers are a bit more technical in the grand scheme of things, I would rather drop it to him and let him take his time, than have it go to..... who knows.. especially with its weight, if it needs to be shipped out, that will already cost what the repair charge would be from my local guy. Another reason valves are nice. If you are familiar with working on several other valve amps, you can likely figure your way around most other of them as well.
P.S. - NOS telefunken and NOS RCA 12AX7's arrived this morning :) |
Hi Jkull,
If you look at the section of the 7701’s manual on "Crossovers" on page 129 (pdf page 132) I believe you’ll conclude (as I have) that you are most likely sending a full-range signal into the LM, even though the sub output is set to be active.
Disabling the sub in the 7701’s menus would add further confidence, however. Take a look at the two pages immediately preceding that one (127 and 128), and also note 2 on page 158. Although it’s all presented in a very confusing manner, it appears that it should be possible to disable the sub output by setting "Subwoofer Mode" to "LFE," rather than "LFE + Main," or alternatively by setting "Subwoofer" to "No" under "Manual Setup/Speaker Configuration."
Regards,
-- Al
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johnk,
What Line Magnetic models have you had, and what issues did you run into requiring repair?
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Johnk-
hello. How's it going. Your post was directed towards myself correct? I am loving what the cornwalls are doing for me right now. I cannot argue with a large enclosure full range, with 15" cones for the bass, which I need, as I listen to a lot of music with heavy bass guitar, and the 15"'s produce that lower grit and sludge when needed in a realistic fashion, and allow me to dismiss the use of a sub. My 219ia is dead silent through my horns personally. My cornwalls are about 98-99 sensitivity so I am unsure how sensitive yours are but I listened to a LM amp maybe 2 months ago through 105db lascalas and then also, dead silent.. |
Maybe buy the Shindo listed on AG and a tube phono preamp. If you enjoy the sound consider replacing the klipsch with a better horn. LM gear is OK I have owned a bunch but I do not trust the repair network and I had noise issues on my horns running LM amps. |
Wig, Where is it published who builds what side by side ?
Thank you. |
Al-
thank you. I do always run it in pure direct mode. However when the sub was hooked up, even in pure direct, the sub would be receiving signal. I believe the mode enables the pre amp to bypass all of the fancy video signal components and such to run a more pure and ’direct’ path, but it still allows for the sub to be active, which leads me to believe that I should go in there and disable it. With me?
ps. The telefunkens look like they may arrive tomorrow. Looking forward to it
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Hi Jkull, Regarding your question above about the 7701, as you've no doubt seen it has a bewildering array of possible settings in its menus. After skimming through the manual, which can be found here under "downloads," I believe that in addition to the "Large" setting you mentioned, it would be best to select "Pure Direct" mode. Although the unit's display is apparently turned off in that mode, that will disable a number of functions and settings that could compromise the sound if not set appropriately, and is claimed to provide the best audio quality. And while I'm not 100% certain I believe that will assure that a full-range signal is provided to the LM amplifier. Regards, -- Al |
Ross,
Learned from someone in the industry and it's published on who builds both amps in the same factory side by side.
Wig
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Yes I am happy with the P845se. I heard integrated version of the amp several years ago and was very impressed. I found a great deal recently and jumped on it. Foreknowledge of a hidden relationship with Line Magnetic or front door/back door production would not have changed my decision. SE triode beauty, with great frequency extension, and surprising power for 20wpc. |
Charles, Almarg, my audio go-to guys, lol:
i am obviously still running the phono in my marantz 7701 pre amp (until I get the Zp3). I have pulled my sub from my room and am enjoying pure 2 channel without it. I still have the marantz programmed with subwoofer ON with the crossover at 40Hz, and my cornwalls set to large. Even with no sub hooked up to the marantz, will it still be cutting the Hz off to my mains at that 40 mark? A simple question,and figuring you’ve both been so helpful and not knowing where else to ask, I figured I’d ask you guys.
i will pull the marantz and hook it to the living room tv as a monitor, to disable the sub if so. Thanks! |
Ross, I imagine you're very happy with that amplifier. Charles |
"wig"
you mentioned that the Line Magnetic and Triode TRV amplifiers are made in the same factory, and use the same parts.
How do you know this ?
Thanks. Ross
disclosure- I own a Triode TRV P845SE |
"charles1dad" Sorry for referencing you in my post. Question was meant for someone else.
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Hello Ross,
You’ve mistaken me for someone else, I didn’t post that statement.
The only Triode Corp product I've had direct experience with and knowledge of is the "TRX" M 845 PSET amplifiers which I have heard on several occasions. In my opinion an excellent sounding and beautifully built amplifier.
Charles |
"charles1dad" you mentioned that the Line Magnetic and Triode TRV amplifiers are made in the same factory, and use the same parts.
How do you know this ?
Thanks. Ross |
Getting back to the LM-219ia in its current and still stock-tube state. The amp is certainly beginning to open up more. There was a little congestion that is now fading more and more, and there is more separation in the music forming. To sum it simply, the amp sounds MORE natural than it did a month ago for sure. It was quite noticeable today while spinning fiona apple’s extraordinary machine album. Quite a delightful album due to excellent instruments, as her band is just great, her stellar vocal work, and the fact that her stuff is recorded very well. It is an all around audio ’reference quality’ album if you ask me.
Ive also decided to pull my subwoofer from the mix totally and am actually finding that I am far happier without it. The cornwalls are full range anyhow, and I’m finding that the bass is more natural without the sub. No oddities bass waves, free’s things from an extra crossover, keeps things tighter and more in focus. And the 219ia's monster transformers have no issue pushing the low Hz with ease! Im happy!! |
Roxy54-
So officially on the way are:
1 pair of NOS West Germany teles.
1 pair of NOS long plate RCA's.
1 pair of match code Blackburn mullards.
Will return with my results once they all arrive and I do this shootout.. |
I will be interested to hear your impressions j. |
First off happy holidays.
i decided the right way to do this was to try them for myself and see what I like. So I've purchased 1 pair of excellent tested, matched code long plate telefunkens, one pair of long plate RCA's that test about new, and I'll be buying a pair of Blackburn mullards today as well. I bought each pair from listings that were refundable within 14 days. So the pair I like, I keep, and the others go back and just cost me the few dollars each to ship them back. Will have my own little 12AX7 shootout...
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Thanks for the nice words, Mechans. I always value your comments about tube rolling highly, as I know you have particularly extensive tube-related experience.
FYI and FWIW the CBS tubes I tried were a quartet of 6SN7GTBs, having red lettering and marked as CBSs, not as CBS Hytrons. Three of them had a date code of 6026, which I presume means the 26th week of 1960. The other had no date code, but said "XG" in the location where the date code was marked on the others. They were in what I believe to be their original boxes. The box containing the XG tube said CBS Hytron, but as I said the tube itself said only CBS. The other three boxes said CBS Electronics. All four boxes referred to Danvers, Massachusetts.
I believe that all four tubes were true NOS, but in any event all of them tested fine on my Hickok 800a tube tester, and were well matched. I tried them about three years ago in my VAC Renaissance 70/70 MkIII amp. I recall that they sounded harsh and thin, compared to the several other vintage tubes I mentioned, as well as in comparison to currently produced Sophia Electrics. It is possible, though, that I didn't give them enough breakin time.
Regarding the comments you provided about 12AX7s, I'll second both the Telefunken recommendation and your words of caution. Also, I can report having excellent results in a different amplifier (a Chinese-made Paxthon push-pull parallel EL34-based amp) several years ago with the currently produced Genalex Gold Lion reissue that you mentioned. I've seen favorable comments here about that tube from others as well.
Thanks again. Best regards,
-- Al
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I have tried a large number of various 6SN7S in a several different circuits and have found the GT compatible. I have a great deal of respect for Almarg and his engineering approach to system compatibility but my experience differs. That said I happen to agree with his choice of Sylvania GTBs (green lettering ) and the performance and bargain price of GE GTBs. The truly NOS GEs,can be bought for less than current production. If you have a bigger budget there are many depending on the sound you want. It's very subjective, for instance Almarg didn't like CBS, there are two distinct periods of that tube the Hytron, and the CBS Hytron/CBS. The sound is very clean and probably the fastest/quickest 6SN7 I tried. I favor Sylvania and use the 6SN7W often. A short bottle version can be had for $50. Other types are less in most cases. The Ked Rad is the bass king buy the clear glass sounds the same and you'll save money. You'll hear a lot of recommedations for Tung Sol round plates , yes they are excellent but good examples wildly expensive.
12AX7s are getting very scarce as old stock tubes and seem to be coming as worn and used despite NOS test.. I would approach with caution Best bet for an old stock tube that will perform is Telefunken. Fortunately there are some very good current production. Tung Sol, Mullard, and Gold Lion as well as JJ etc.
What are you considering? |
