Pixelplay--
Could you post your experience with the Elrog 845s vs. your Psvane WE845s? |
Just wanted to revisit this thread as much talk of the WE 310A’s had occurred. I can confirm now that i feel my stock psvane (shuguang) 310A’s are superior over the NOS WE310A’s I have had in the amp for several months now. I put the shuguangs back in last night and was able to detect some transparency, detail, and even a bit more ’liveliness’ in comparison. I had read in one thread before, someone state to not bother, as they found the stock 310A’s in their 219ia to be superior as well... But had to find out for myself. I can now say that I agree... and yes my WE's were NOS and functioning well. |
Just wanna say hi to fellow music lovers here.
Ecstatic to read the amount of indepth sharing and love for LM 219ia.
I too have recently bought the LM219ia and started to upgrade my system around it.
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I have since sold the 518ia and bought the LM503pa mono blocks... man are they good! I have changed the coupling caps and added the grid chokes as per the 518ia. Replaced the signal resistors to the new Audio Note silver Tantalum's, they took a long time to burn in to the extent that they were almost un-listenable. It was worth the wait. I was using the Psvane WE845's and have now upgraded to Elrogs (fingers crossed they hold up, however they now come with a 1 year warrantee) This was a very large step up. Driving them I have the Takasuki 300b's and NOS russian 310a's. I look forward to some reviews on the WE NOS 310a's.
Hi Pixelplay, I have also bought a pair of LM 503pa's after playing with LM 219ia in bypass mode for 3 years. Can you share me the parts details for the duelund coupling caps and the grid chokes you have used, I think I will go the same way. I have already succesfully tried and loved the we replica 845 and 300b's on 219ia, so I will continue to use these on 503pa's as well. I have found we 310's nos too, they will be with me this August. I will let you know I am looking for good nos rectifiers now! |
Just rolled the 6Z4 to a NOS tung sol 6X4WA. Immensely opened up the sound. So much clarity, in a good way. Can hear the 'space' in the recordings. So much improvement i dont know where to start. Music officially sounds the best it ever has in my listening space. This DAC is just excellent. At this point, i can say confidently that the oppo 105 does not even compare in my opinion. |
Jeff Halpern of Tone Imports, US Distributor for Line Magnetic, told me via email this week that there may be a new DAC later this year (no particulars provided). |
Miyabi- thanks for the info, an international line huh? I look forward to seeing what this will entail. I’m fascinated by the company. They have redefined my personal expectations in pure audio. And I love the way they look. Love the industrial rough build and look, true to the original western electric style, as opposed to the every day cookie cutter look! |
As for LM-502, it looks, there were not any updates yet, so it`s hard to say when a new version with DSD DAC inside will be launched.
As I know, there will be soon new so called International models in Line Magnetic line up.
Actually, I`m looking for a Classic LM 129 - preamplifier, to die for (as it looks to me) :)))) Amazing reproduction of classical WE, think it can be best matched preamp for 219. Hope, soon it will be mine.
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Charles when I was still buying CD's I hunted down K2's like crazy and RVG's to a less extent. I always figured K2's were a great deal, regular CD prices and the same technology as XRCD's which were double the price if not more. Luckily Tidal has many of these same recordings and I have all of mine ripped to my library.
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Hi jond,
I've yet to come across a disappointing sound K2 CD. They are exceptionally good based on my exposure. The few RVG recordings I've heard were very good sounding as well.
Charles |
Agreed guys. I don't have any DSD files. I listen to a lot of vinyl. And when it comes to digital I'm usually using the 16/44 red book, however if it is available is a worthy higher res, I usually grab those. Like mentioned about, what matters most is the recording and mastering. So sound engineers, not off your bullshit! ;) no one like flat overly compressed recordings! Lol |
I have to agree with Charles I almost exclusively listen to Redbook and what matters most of all is the mastering and initial recording quality.. If your not starting off with a high quality recording you can make the resolution as high as you want and it still won't sound good. I particularly love the K2 and RVG remasters of classic jazz for great sounding Redbook recordings.
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Jkull,
Granted this is just my opinion but I don't believe that you are missing much at all by not having DSD. What limited listening exposure I've had didn't match the preceding hype.
I believe that the Redbook medium is/ can be genuinely excellent "if" you have a very good quality digital source. My listening is predominantly jazz and most of this genre's CD recordings are well done. If could be different with other types of music as far as CD vs DSD recordings.
Charles |
I own not a single DSD file, thus not being able to play them was fine by me. I have the standard LM502ca. I’ve never heard of a 502ca that could play DSD....? purchased my 502 brand new. |
I tried 502 ca couple years ago, and know, that some period they were discontinued. It has very good USB DAC inside, but I decided to wait a new one with DSD converter for high resolution DSD audio.
jkull, what kind of version of 502 do you have, is it newest one?
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the brand new 502ca with its brand new mullards had a drop of bite out if the gate. Only a week later and that bite has nearly vanished. Break in time is so real, and so necessary! |
Charles - absolutely. my system has went from a nice marantz receiver and oppo to now the LM502 and soon enough a SET phono. Surely more of a pure audio angle approach has been taken and I'm very happy, and am appreciative of the input, encouragement, and help from yourself almarg and a few others.
Miyabi- indeed the LM Amos are great from the factory. I am utilizing the pre amp in my 219ia and have no plans of changing that right now. The tele 12AX7's made a dramatic change. The soundstage larger, much more imaging, separation, you name it, it literally improved everything. The WE310A's were the least effective tube swap. I did it bc I got them for a good price, NOS, and hell, WE tubes last forever. The 300's did however make a nice change. The KR's improved the bass, and sweetness. keep in mind I am running through horn tweeters and midrange. With this, sometimes too transparent or receiving if a system can become TOO overbearing on the ear. So eq'ing through tube rolling allows for the balancing of all of this. The KR's helped well here. I listen to classical and jazz, all the way to thrash metal. When you get into the heavy guitar driven music, this is when a fatiguing system can kill you the most. The stock full music 300B's are very very transparent and can have some bite on that high end. They are a great tube and we're fine by me, but the KR's have sweetened things. As good of a source piece that the oppo is for the money, it CAN be shrill, and fatiguing. The LM502Ca with what little hours are only on it now, has greatly improved listenability. The biggest very audible improvement from the oppo to the LM is in acoustics. The upright bass on my jazz albums sounds wonderful. I hear much more wood, much more resonance in the body of the bass, and in the cello. There is just.'more' there. It manages to depict and extract MORE details while somehow NOT making the extraction more fatiguing. Wonderful
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Think, even if you will take LM-515CD, sound will improve significantly, comparing Oppo or some other middle class solid state CD players. It`s going much closer to analog sound, have some vibrations, deep and warm mids, which hard to find at that price range or higher enough.
At my experience with LM 219 and LM 210, replacement of 300B tubes, is not so much step ahead. I tried STC-4300, one of the best sounding tubes ever, and improvement was just for some very experienced listeners, so stock Shuguang tubes are good enough.
Very interesting story, that LM 219 actually so good in basic version, so even if you will try to find some preamp for further system upgrade, it will be not easy story. At my experience only Shindo gave some real step ahead, that can be valuable.
It looks, one of the good idea for upgrade, to make a right choice with interconnects and speaker cables.
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Hi jkull,
It appears to me that since your acquisition of the Line Magnetic 219ia your system has taken a sharp turn toward naturalness and realism. No doubt that this change in your digital source takes you further down that road. I don't believe there will be any looking back. I'm sure music played though your current system is organic and captivating.
Charles |
I have furthermore sold my designated digital playback/DAC component, my oppo 105, and have replaced it with the LM502ca DAC.. Rolled the 12AU7’s to NOS mullard C4003’s right out of the gate. Have had the DAC for a few days now and the sound is improving and improving. It is an improvement over the oppo, with the quality and amount of bass being the extremely obvious mention here. Between the KR300’s and this new DAC (using the tube stage basically always), the bass has become much improved in my setup. Digital glare has been much reduced compared to the oppo, and the sound is more textured. I expect even further improvement once the NOS tung-sol 6x4 rectifier tube arrives, to replace the stock Chinese 6z4. This is said to bring a very nice improvement, even greater that the rolling of the 12AU7’s in this DAC. I will upgrade the coupling caps to silver/gold in oil mundorfs shortly as well. Very happy with this DAC so far and feel that is is a definite improvement and a better piece as it is strictly ’audio dedicated’. |
Hi jkull,
It appears that the 300b tubes individual character are apparent as driver tubes just they are when used as output tubes. Your description of the sound of the KR is quite similar to how it was in my amplifier. Like I have written previously I gave a slight edge to the EML XLS but could unquestionably live happily with either of these exceptional tubes. No surprise to me that you preferred the KR to the Full Music 300b. I’d check to be sure that the EML mesh is suitable as a driver tube in your amplifier's circuit. It’s a very beautiful organic sounding tube under the right circumstances.
Charles |
KR 300B’s have arrived. They look nice and have surely a durable and rugged feel to them as I’ve read the czech valves should.
Sound impressions (compared to my prior Full Music 300B/n)-
Certainly more extended into the lower frequencies beyond what the FM300B delivered. The bass is a bit warmer and fuller, thus the entire sound has more body and weight to it. Not as ’airy’ as the FM tube. But the air with the FM tube came with sometimes, a harsh top end. On some recordings it could have a little too much bite. The bite was during some high notes especially with some particular female vocal recordings or maybe even some guitar tones. This has almost been totally addressed with changing to the KR. It is more rounded, and more neutral, and overall, more balanced I suppose. Now I want to mention, when I play a very high resolution and high DR recording of Diana krall for example, the air is still there well on either tube, the KR and the FM. Dynamics are still good with the KR, but it is warmer overall, with a little less bite. Easier listening. As a whole, I prefer the KR. All of the characteristics vs the FM300 make it a sweeter, and maybe more fluid of a sound. However, I am curious as to what an EML mesh might do in comparison still. Might it retain that warmth and low end and meanwhile add some airiness back without the highs being harsh? I could live with either in, but the KR is staying for sure.
As of now my 219ia is loaded with:
KR 300B
WE 310A
Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7
Stock shuguang/psvane 845 still |
charles-
just asked jac. will get back with the response on the matter! |
Jkull,
If you learn the EML XLS is acceptable to use in your amp I'd ask Jac if the XLS offers any advantage utilized as a circuit driver tube compared to a standard EML (or KR) 300b. I'm familiar with his site and he appears to be quite knowledgeable regarding the European tubes.
Charles |
Almarg-
there you are haha. Everything you said is from what I've also concluded, spot on. The functionality you describe keeps the 300b's from being pushed to their limits, further eliminating distortion and other things that may inhibit the signal at all. You have to be really pushing the amp to get here anyhow. It does not state in the LM manual the ability of amp heater supply. Perhaps my best bet is to call a US supplier and ask if they have input. Then again I'm leaning towards just grabbing the KR300's as I know I'm totally safe here
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I suspect that the higher filament current of the EML 300B-XLS (1.5 amps per the datasheet at their website), compared to the 1.2 amp spec of the original Western Electric tube (to which the KR tube conforms) is a factor in the very long reported lifespans of the EML XLS that Charles referred to. The higher current draw will result in more voltage drop in the power transformer's filament winding and/or other power supply circuitry, resulting in less voltage being applied to the filament, compared to a 1.2 amp tube in the same application. The reduction in filament voltage would presumably result in greater longevity, and perhaps also contribute to the sonic character of the tube.
In any event, though, as you (Jkull) indicated you should verify that the amp can supply 1.5 amps to the tube without issue, if you want to consider the EML XLS.
Good luck. Regards,
-- Al
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Jkull and Jond,
The EML mesh plate is a very airy sounding tube. I had them in my amplifiers for several weeks until they failed. This is a more delicate tube and my amplifier circuit pushes them too hard, so not compatible. They’d be beautiful in the right 300b amplifer.
Jkull I see your point, apparently my amplifier is a better match with the XLS version. I do believe that the KR standard 300b should be fine in your situation.
Charles |
Ah slight correction Charles sorry, I'm not that familiar with EML tubes so I assumed the XLS was a Meshplate, it was definitely an EML Meshplate tube the gentleman was describing. To paraphrase him "open and airy almost to a fault but I love it" . Not sure how that jibes with your own experience if you've tried the Meshplates.
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Charles-
spoke to jac from EML. He confirmed that before running 300B XLS or Mesh, that I need to confirm that my amp can supply 1.4 amps heater. This is what I was referring too I a few posts about, regarding them not being a direct plug and play for any amp utilizing the 300B. |
Charles pretty sure it's a Deja Vu custom amp but I am not sure the configuration or topology. We were listening to a pair of PP 2a3 amps through some horns at the time and a discussion of tube types came up.
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Jkull,
I'm more familiar with EML than KR. The EML XLS according to the U.S, Distributor is approaching 40,000 hours of service for some long term owners and still tests well, now that is impressive. The KR as far as I know is built to a similar high standard and could possibly be as durable. Getting them for a very good price is a high value proposition. I believe that you'll have no regrets.
Charles |
Jkull,
Yes, that is my suspicion, I can’t produce facts to confirm that however.
Common sense and listening experience suggest to me that a high quality 300b driving a good 845 tube should sound beautiful!
Charles |
Jond,
Do you happen to know what amplifier the EML XLS user owns? Just curious as sometimes certain tubes are better performing in certain amplifiers. Interesting that he and I hear the very same sonic character of the EML XLS.
Charles |
Charles-
I understand. If the 300 were being used as an output tube, then there might be a benefit of the XLS, but as a driver, likely not so. |
Jkull,
As I wrote above both tubes are terrific. I’d go for the best price in your situation. Either should be excellent as a driver tube in your amplifier. The standard KR would seem an excellent tube driving the 845 tube., in this function I'm not sure the XLS version offers an advantage.
Charles |
charles-
i am looking at a pair of EML XLS, or a pair of KR, not XLS. Am i going to want to stick with an XLS tube for its benefits? The KR is available to me at a much lower price vs the EML. Around half the price. You're two cents? ;) |
I was hanging out in Deja Vu Audio on Saturday a bunch tube-o-philes were there and one described the EML XLS exactly as Charles does above, open/airy. He said he absolutely loves the tube.
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Jkull,
The upscale Czech 300bs are excellent all around tubes. I used a pair of the KR XLS loaned from a friend. I'd say that in my amplifier the EML XLS is a "bit" more open/airy and the KR XLS slightly darker (but not dark if you know what I mean), subtle difference. Overall both are terrific in my opinion.
Charles |
lol. It's rather noisey and aggressive, generally more up tempo. A current act that could be labeled as so, would be Nails. As an example if you're really curious. |
What the hell is "power violence"? |
Charles-
After further reading, I think I'd like to stay with a Czech made tube like a KR or EML. Hand made, better materials and glass from what I understand. Taka's and Elrogs are over what im looking to spend otherwise of course, I know they are gems of tubes. I am weighing between EML's and KR's at this point. |
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Hi jkull,
I've had the sheer pleasure of owning the Elrog, Takatsuki and EML XLS 300b tubes. These are simply top-tier tubes that sound superb yet each has its unique character. The EML XLS is admirably natural and transparent I can’t say that it "adds" warmth. Rather it reveals the inherent warmth or lack of it in a recording.
For example I have recordings that really convey the full bodied tone and warmth of tenor saxophonists and the colorful and rich harmonics of jazz guitar chords. The EML is a wonderful conduit of this realistic reproduction, it preserves the soul and emotion of music. It is a very stout and durable tube.
Charles |
Paul-
email me. The PM function on this site is odd. j.kull001@gmail.com. Thanks |
Pdreher-
I am definitely considering you KR’s. they are a nice looking tube indeed. And I read they are constructed well. These are 300B , or the 300B XLS? I am looking to find your PM to re read it but do not see anywhere to do that on here. Maybe I’m overlooking it.
Charles-
What I mean is, the EML’s are not a proper swap for any 300B amp apparently. That’s what I’ve read. There is a disclaimer with something regarding this when you purchase them. Would I have no trouble using them? Just bias and go ahead? Are they a tonally Warm tube? |
jkull,
I sent you a PM about the KR's.
Paul |
Jkull,
I haven’t commented extensively on the 300b options because I’m only familiar with it as an output tube and not as a driver. It’s certainly possible that the brand characteristics remain consistent regardless of duty they provide in the amplifier.
If that’s the case then for the type of sound you desire I’d say you’re on the right track with the TJ Full Music carbon plate and the Psvane W.E.. Replica. These two may be a bit fuller/warmer than the Shuguang Black Treasure tubes. I used the Black Treasure for about 2 1/2 years and it’s a very good tube.
I’m not sure of voltage issues with the EML XLS . I can only report that its an outstanding tube in my SET amplifier in both sound quality and reliability. EML also offers a standard 300b that is said to be excellent.
Charles |
Migueca-
Congrats on the 219ia. Great amp indeed. I am going to make one recommendation of grabbing a NOS pair of 12AX7's. Not too costly and yields a large benefit. I bought a pair of NOS matched code mullards, a pair of NOS long black plate RCA's, and a pair of NOS smooth plate telefunkens. It came down to the RCA's or tele's, but I'm sticking with the tele's. They take the cake. Find yourself a decent pair on eBay and make an offer. You won't regret the cost:reward ratio. Enjoy the amp.
other readers in this thread, please refer to my post right above migueca's regarding 300B's still. Just don't want it to be overlooked! Thank you |
Nice to see this thread is still active.
I finally pulled the trigger and brought my 219 home!
I was about to buy a new one from the shop when I found out that a person I know was selling his.
Living in my home for just a few days, here are my first impressions with this amplifier as part of my system;
My system: a Nottingham Analogue Spacedeck from the early 90’s with a Spacearm, a Denon DL 103 “naked”, a custom made solid state phono preamp (with adjustable loading and gain), a CD player/DAC from KingKo (new brand from Hong Kong), Zu Audio Omen Def speakers and now this Line Magnetic 219ia. Cables are a mix of Morrow audio and DIY made by me.
I start by saying that I have listened to this amplifier many times in many different setups, always sounding superb. After nearly four years of courtship, I finally decided to bring it home. My main concern was “Will it sound the same in my living room connected to my system?” – well, it sure does!
Unpacking and handling this beast is no easy task, so make sure it sits on a permanent place and you’re not thinking about moving it around too much.
After all the connections made, I must confess I was a bit nervous when pushing the power button. It was like firing a rocket to the Moon! But instead of grunt and explosive noise the only thing I heard was… silence. This amplifier is very silent and I could only hear some hum when turning the volume knob all the way to the limit with no music playing.
I didn’t choose a particular record as my first, I just grabbed one that was nearby – the Led Zepellin IV. And it rumbled! From start to finish, voices and instruments were crystal clear. Low frequencies are strong and tight and the highs are crisp. Pure joy!
Record after record this amplifier presented the music in a very solid way, very palpable. The definition, texture and dynamics together with the incredible soundstage made me believe many times that the bands were performing in front of me.
This first afternoon I played Led Zep, AC DC (Live), Basia Bulat (Tall Tall Shadow), Allison Krauss & Union Station (So long So wrong), Beatles (Abbey Road) and Rodrigo y Gabriela (omonymous). It was like I was listening to all these records for the first time, because this amplifier puts some extra weight in the music. Everything sounds boulder, richer, with more body and detail.
Electric instruments and drums were very good to listen to, but where it really shines is on the vocals and acoustic instruments like classic guitars. Shivers and chills! Speechless!
Another thing I noticed clearly was that this amp doesn’t forgive a bad recording. Good records will sound amazing but a bad record will sound bad. It simply brings up whatever we feed it with.
I’m not an “audiophile” nor an experienced reviewer, just someone with a strong passion for music and some knowledge about music (also as a musician). What I experience now with the 219ia from Line Magnetic is way beyond any other amplifier that I heard before. It’s engaging. It’s organic. It’s addictive!
This one is a keeper! Together with my old Nottigham and the Zu speakers this is a fantastic sound system both sonically and visually. I wish I could stay home all day and not have to go to work…
All tubes are from factory and I don't feel the need of rolling tubes (at least for now). I am experiencing, though, a passive preamplifier turning the LM219ia into a pure power amp. Can't tell if it sounds better, just different. I need more time.
Are all the owners as happy as I am? :) |
Have to say. I’m all over with what 300B’s to go for. Just for the record, my amp is currently loaded with TJ Full Music 300B/n’s. So I want to know that I am getting a tube that will give me worthwhile improvement OVER those. My current research has concluded a few points
-I read some very nice things about Sophia Electric Carbon Plates and Meshes. I read how the carbon plates have a darker tone with a rich midrange, I like the sound of that. My system leans towards a bright presentation if any, considering the horns etc. I didn’t pull on them only bc you do read about some reliability issues with these. I also realize they are also TJ tubes. Yes different and certain selectivity from the factory, I get that, but still are at their core, the same make as the tube I have right now... But are still a contender none the less.
-EML. I don’t want to worry about their close monitoring needs as voltage is quite unique or so I’ve read, so I’ll just rule them out.
-PSVANE 300B WE. Reviews I’ve read are pretty good. I haven’t concluded an idea of what they really sound like as most of the reviews of them just say how alike they are to the original WE’s and not much in respect to their character.
-shuguang black treasures- I see a very large amount of good response. Probably however related to them being very affordable, so MORE are promoted to get these and try these etc etc. I think they look nice glowing in a dark room lol. Apparently very very reliable. I haven’t read anything bad. Not the best 300 but much better than many at it’s price range I’ve concluded...
KR- also read about reliability issues but I’ve also read that czech tubes are some of the best.
Id like to cap my spending at about $600. That puts a new pair of PSVaNE WE reps as about my priciest contender. Willing to go with a nice pair of used tubes as well if I came across a good snag
i would like a BIT warmer of a sound with a smooth midrange as I read about with the SE carbon plates..I think with saying that, all carbon plates 300B's are going to be relatively darker and warmer than their mesh brother tubes, is that generally correct? Like it's not just a thing with Sophia electrics, but for other brands too, yes?
could use use some input! Lol. Charles where are you. Lol |
