I bought the jap version of led zep 3. it was costly but it sounds really good. Any opinions on others from the land of the " rising sun." Including other bands. Thanks |
when is mothership vinyl really going to ship? |
IMS the early stuff is a little bass shy but from ZOSO on the bass is more pronounced. I can difintely hear more in the highs though on all material. |
Finally got around to listening to the CDs. They are fabulous... but the real shocker is the DVD that is included with the CDs. Early footage of live performances and a few later ones. And the sound, oh my God! |
I don't know what the 80's diament is/what ? I assume that is the first Led Zeppelin cd's that came out. The Page re-masters in the 90's is better than those period, imhop. The recorded volume level is not much different imhop but the detail is better and drums, bass (Bonham, Jones) more pronounced as opposed to vocals, guitar being highlighted for radio as things were back then. Early cd's were/are not as good as now if current re-masters are done properly. Come on ! We all know cd technology has become better since the 80's. Sure idiot engineers can record a cd too loud compressing and removing dynamics and rendering the music unlistenable. For an example, I bought the Climax Blues Band compilation, "The Band plays On (FUEL)." This is the worst cd recording I have ever heard. Where I can usually listen to any cd at like 40% to 50% on the volume knob, this one had to be turned way down in order to be able to stand it, and then it still sucked. Extemely loudly recorded, like if you recorded an LP to tape in the old days with the recording level cranked to the max. It just doesn't work. I understand the concept of a TOO HOT recorded cd, there isn't any room left for dynamic changes in the music. I strongly don't believe this is the case in the Page re-masters of the 90's. Consequently, I did have high hopes that high rez recordings of their catalog would be forthcoming. Comments so far seem to be critical of the "Mothership" recording ( I want to buy high rez versions of individual albums). So, I wait for more comments. |
if you can, compare momship to the 80's diament mastering like i did.try this: turn up a diament cut til plant is pretty loud. all will be well, i promise. now - swap it for mommaship and turn up that same song til plant is as loud as you just heard him on your 80's cd. i promise that your ears will hurt from the loudness/piercing quality of one instrument or another. I have observed the same problems with remasterd Toto albums (orginal Grammy Award winning stuff damaged through incompetence of remastering engineer and producer) - the orginal 80's first CD release sounds better.. What you describe above is exactly what you hear when it has been mastered "hot" - the modern remastering uses compressors to compress the dynamimcs of the original master tapes so that the CD sounds perceptively louder....but THIS ADDS DISTORTION. Do a google on "CD Loudness wars" it is absolutely criminal how the industry is destroying good music! BTW Led Zeppelin sounds awesome on ATC SCM 100's - anyway that is what Robert Plant uses at home...so I guess it should. |
the song remains the same is really nicely mastered. i was bored by the performances when the original came out but i can hear now how fine they really are. not as good a performance as how the west was one but the sonics are even better i think. and its only "not as good" as other led zeppelin performances, it is still astounding rock and roll to these old ears. the 4 players are each quite brilliant. on to the other new mastering.
mothership sounded good to me at first but after reading Metralla here and numerous other folks at steve hoffman forums all pointing to the 80's as being straight transfers from the analog, i had to check it out.
i realized i had actually never tried them but because i never liked the 90's remasters (compared to my analog copies) i just assumed the 80's were worse - this based on prejudice from hating the 80's cd's i tried from other catalogs (miles davis is a good example). these tryouts are what kept me from buying a cd player until the 90's.
so, this morning i got an 80's copy of zep I at "turn it up" in brattleboro vt. sat down with mothership and after going back and forth a whole bunch came to the same conclusion as Metralla. these are better.
i eat my hat.
blech...
i think a good mastering/manufacturing job now would surpass these 80's transfers due to so much ground being gained in 16 bit since then. even a needle drop of a classic records zep might smoke the 80's cd if done properly. certainly the vinyl is way better.
if you can, compare momship to the 80's diament mastering like i did.try this: turn up a diament cut til plant is pretty loud. all will be well, i promise. now - swap it for mommaship and turn up that same song til plant is as loud as you just heard him on your 80's cd. i promise that your ears will hurt from the loudness/piercing quality of one instrument or another.
at low/careful volume the mom reveals a lot of detail and appears to have great soundstage. this can be seductive. but there is an artificiality to some of the tonal shadings and the imaging if you compare to the vinyl or the diament. it can sound really SUPER, but thats just what it is - there's a bit of super natural vs natural sonics being played out.
i love that (if it's not too loud) on an Air cd, or on a bjork cd etc etc etc. digitally recorded music can have some effects/results that sound amazing on good gear. but here we are talking about an analog recordings, and unless you are simply enamored with that digital thang, i think you will find that the diament mastering/transfer represent what is actually there a lot more closely than the 90's remasters or the mommaboat stuff.
this from a guy who was wowed by the mom stuff until he 1) listened to the classic vinyl again and 2) did the a/b thing with the diament.
ok. now i am done eating my hat. yuck...
still though, if you have zip to compare/relate it to, mothership could rock your boat. i still enjoy it, but not as much as the diament cds.
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Mothership.The cynical side of me says why? mostly the same songs as Earlier days, latter days, so I have read. So why? a bigger tweak of the old EQ?. Kerching went the cash register.
Roll on the next tweak cd set. One for the must haves only methinks. |
so what about the "soundtrack to song remains the same" remaster with 6 additional songs...also mastered at half speed...i think this is the one to get here...live music, and quality production/pressing? the last zep box set, with the kind of yellow/orange cover, and eacg cd cover was black with a print on it... was that mastered by page? just picked that up on vinyl...curious to the presentation. |
I could not tell (if any) much improvement of the new Mothership CD's to the Page remasters |
I'll be goddamned, someone finally agreed with me. I'm gonna mark this day down on my calendar. :-) |
The Page re-masters were darn good. I just listened to one of the cd's from the box set, it sounded really good. They are not recorded at a really high sound level so you have to turn the volume up a little. If the new re-masters are better, gee whoopee I'll buy. |
All I can say is Led Zeppelin/Led Zeppelin is one of my all time greatest albums and coming home tonight they played Dazed and Confused off the new Mothership and even on my crappy Cd player in my truck i could here the cybmbal clear as day which is often muted on my Vinyl. It sounded great but because as everyone is saying about the song selection on MOTHERSHIP I will wait to pick up the remastered offerings of 1,2,3 and 4 when they are released. For what its worth I think MFSL did an admiral job with Led Zeppelin II.In it's day it was the best version available and probably has been bettered by now. |
Amansker, if you have the original transfers from the '80s, then you have Barry Diament's mastering on all but 1 - Joe Sidore mastered LZ IV. Except for the compilation by Dave Collins I mentioned above, these are by far the best digital transfers.
The later remasters by Marino, and the final digital transfers by Jimmy Page, are not as good as the originals.
Now with the Mothership, there has been some very fancy fiddling in the digital domain by John Davis at Alchemy Mastering using Page's digital transfers to produce the sound you are hearing. You might wonder how they managed to get that drum sound.
I'm happy you are enjoying Mothership. I just want to remind readers that no one went back to the original analogue tapes and remastered them. They took Jimmy's digital transfers and worked some magic on them.
Regards,
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I've only listened to Mothership once since I got it, but I was pretty favorably impressed with the sound. I concur with Amansker's take on the nature of the improvements. |
I guess its time to dust these off for another listen,
my system has changed considerably since last listen to the 10 CD box. My recollection is that I was not at all
satisfied, but I will listen again and try to elaborate
on that. My Zep vinyl has been treating me well though.
Most all classic records 180 & 200 gram. |
Metralla, but I thought the Page transfers were spectacular. I might not have expressed that quite right. I will be spinning the Mothership CDs this week, but I need to treat them first. :-) Geoff |
I haven't heard the Page remasters. All my studio CDs are from the 80s, and the Mothership is far, far better sounding with lots more detail, air, bigger soundstage, etc. The drums and bass are a real treat. Drums on Since I've Been Loving You are GIGANTIC - sounds like Bonham is filling a large concert hall. Vocals are better, but not stunning. Can't wait for the individual releases. |
Do you like the Page remasters? I'm with Geoffkait and don't much care for Page's transfers. I prefer the originals; the best mastering I have is by Dave Collins on the 2001 Promo (2500 copies) 3 CD Set - Warner Bros. Retro Active RA-003.
Regards, |
I was at my local Barnes/Noble recently and they had Mothership packaged in cardboard w/DVD and a CD only version
which was packaged in standard plastic case. However, I noticed the Cd only version had the rounded
edges like I usually have seen exclusively on Sacd's.
Just on a whim, could this be a hybrid Sacd. Anyone feel
these surpass the page remasters sound wise. |
Tonyptony -- I'm assuming it's the same as listed on modernguitar website -- the date of release has slipped into 2008.
Fbhifi -- couldn't say for sure -- as I can't seem to find definitive information on which masters.
Rlawry -- Couldn't agree more. |
the entire library is being primed...just like the doors |
I hope the half-speed versions by RTI/Stan Ricker are better than other titles they have done. I am not a fan of the MFSL titles SR did and the Steely Dan Aja is a joke. The only one I like is the ZZ Top Tres Hombres. |
Is Stan remastering the analog or digital masters ?? |
The 180g 4 lp limited edition box set, remastered half speed at RTI by Stan Ricker is now due for release on 31 March 2008 Is this the same as what was mentioned in the modernguitars web article, or yet another (different) vinyl release? It appears, from the MODERNGUITAR link above, that the Page's early '90s digital transfers of the analog masters will be used for the various Mothership digital and vinyl offerings Anyone maybe know what the quality of Page's original digital transfer was at the time? I'm guessing 16/44.1, so I'm wondering if the remastering will be more of making it sound different rather than better. |
The 180g 4 lp limited edition box set, remastered half speed at RTI by Stan Ricker is now due for release on 31 March 2008. |
It appears, from the MODERNGUITAR link above, that the Page's early '90s digital transfers of the analog masters will be used for the various Mothership digital and vinyl offerings. I'm wondering which source was used for the Classic records reissues. The Classic Zep. 1, 2, 3 releases were OK, while Houses of the Holy was truly dreadful. It would be simply incredible and truly exciting to get Zeppelin's catalog remastered from the original analog masters by, say, Steve Hoffman and pressed with a high level of QC by RTI. |
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I am guessing for Zeppelin`s 40th anniversary Atlantic will reissue Zeppelin`s catalouge remastered with studio outtakes as bonus tracks.Page has said in interviews he wants to release the outtake material.There has been wide speculation the 1970 Bath festival and 5 nights multitracked from Japan 1971 will see the light of day sooner than later.All of these have leaked as bootlegs and fueled greater demand for the real thing. |
Visited my local music shop and saw it on the counter, then came home and saw this thread !
Like you said, there's way too many good tunes for a comp, but it's a fortunate start.
I'll go for the 1st, 2nd and Houses of the Holy when they get released. |
Jaybo what's the detail on further releases? |
If the new remasters are better than the Page remasters, I'm down. |
Vinyl? I am going to hear them in London in December. When I last heard them at their induction into the RRHoF, with Son of Bonham on drums, they were hardly at their best.
Joe Bonamassa, on the other hand, does a mean cover of Dazed and Confused in his shows. |
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