My experience has been that an hour warmup for a tube preamp gives you at least 99% of what you get from leaving it on 3-4 hours aforehand much less all day. So my suggestion .... turn it on at dinnertime or before getting the kids to bed, and be happy that you are getting virtually all that that preamp has to give.
Leave preamp on all day, off at night
Finally had the funds purchased my first tube hifi component, an arc ref 3. Very happy with purchase so far but has raised a concern. System is in main living room - wife and kids listen casually through day - non critical listening. I listen (more critically) for 1-2h at night when they are asleep.
Im used to solid state components that stay on all day long.
Question- is it a problem leaving the valve pre on most of the day, on most days of the week? Is it really just a matter of burning through the tubes faster, or are there other expensive delicate components in there that don't like being left on all day? Thanks in advance
Im used to solid state components that stay on all day long.
Question- is it a problem leaving the valve pre on most of the day, on most days of the week? Is it really just a matter of burning through the tubes faster, or are there other expensive delicate components in there that don't like being left on all day? Thanks in advance
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@divesh and others, this may help shed some light on the subject. May I present Exhibit "A" "Getting the most out of Vacuum Tubes," by Robert B. Tomer http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/MostVacuumTubes.pdf The topic begins at the bottom of p. 96 and the answer can be found on p. 99 You can download an read the book at your leisure. I believe the key factors are the design and mfg’s estimated life expectancy of the tube. If a manufacture states that a tube has a life expectancy of say 10,000 hrs., then a tube that is on 24/7 will obviously not last very long. There is approximately 8,760 hrs in one year. Using the above as an example: Given a life expectancy of 10,000 hrs. - 8,760 (1 year) = 1,240 hrs. of useful use remaining. There are other factors obviously that will contribute to the useful life of a given vacuum tube. So, there is probably no definitive answer. It will depend on the tube, usage, etc. It’s a damned if you do and damned if you don’t kind of scenario. |
Turning tubes on and off helps the tubes last longer. I believe this is particularly true at turn on when you do what I used to do with my tube amps. That is, I bring the heaters (filaments) on first, so the plates and everything warms up, then with a delay circuit after 1 min I switch the high tension on. The reason was because NOS RCA Black Plate 805 tubes were very expensive if you could find them. And of course tubes don’t age when they’re off, wolf was just having a dig! Cheers George |
wolf_garcia"Turning tubes on and off helps the tubes last longer. That's simply a fact. Tubes don't age when they're off." Wow that is an amazing fact you have stated that tubes don't age when their off what a remarkable conclusion you have arrived at however you're other "fact" is no fact at all because turning tubes on and off does in fact cause them to age and this is the reason for leaving many tube products in the "on" state. Again we see wolf garcia is one of he contributors here who sees his pronouncements and determinations to be some infallible and unchallengeable expressions of truth when in fact it is pretty obvious that you are one of this group's second or third grade American "grammar school" children. |
The question of whether to leave preamp on/off reminds me of a question years ago about whether you should turn off your home computer or just leave it on all of the time. I think it depends. I will say this with respect to computers having worked in IT for 25+ years. Computers: Application, Web and Database Servers or any hardware that constitutes a network run 24/7. They may occasionally get rebooted but otherwise, they're always on. Computers in an office area sometimes get powered down, sometimes they don't. The problem with those that get powered down is that they don't receive updates or security patches until they're booted up again. As far as audio gear (tube gear in particular), I have mixed feelings. Having said that, I own an Audio Note OTO SE Phone Integrated. I will sometimes allow it to be powered up for 2-3 days at a time. I think the longest time was for a 7 day period when it was initially burning-in. My Nottingham Interspace Jr. TT on the other hand has no on/off switch. Peter Qvortrup was once asked (and most likely has been asked several times), why does he put the power switch on the back of Audio Note components. Peter's answer: So people won't turn them off. |
Ideally you would have a dedicated room with your good gear for critical listening, and another system in the living room for your wife and kids to listen to background noise. Option B would be as others have said. Add another system in the living room for background listening. Save your good system by leaving it off and untouched except for your critical listening sessions. |
I would really like to preserve the life of the ref3, and not waste it on background music and TV etc.My suggestion is use the quad 99 with another power amp or use a AVR/integrated amp, connect to a speaker switcher like the Niles SPK-1. For background music and TV, you can turn off both ARC ref3 and gs450. For critical listening, turn on the ARCs, the ref3 12v trigger will switchthe speakers from quad 99 system or AVR/integrated amp to gs450. One thing to bear in mind, you need to get an amp or AVR has enough power to feed your speakers. |
i would really like to preserve the life of the ref3, and not waste it on background music and TV etc. My other pre amp is a quad 99, but it doesn't have any HT bypass. In regards to using a HT bypass, im assuming the connections would be: source > DAC > HT bybass Pre amp > RCA out to power amp (ARC ds450) and also XLR to ref3 then out to power amp. does this mean i will have two inputs connected into power amp, one from each pre? |
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Most of the comments above, heat, aging, etc., apply to both SS and tube electronics. Preamp tubes don't get too warm as compared to amplifier power tubes so the only real difference between an SS and a tube preamp is aging of the tubes and that's part of the ownership experience. Besides, regular/OEM tubes are not that expensive so I wouldn't worry too much about it. That said, personally I think it's a waste to use a piece like an ARC Ref3 for an all day background music purpose but that's just me. |
Since you haven't said what preamp you are using any answer may or may not make sense. If you have something with 10-plus tubes, then the above answers may apply. However, if you have something with a pair of 12ax7, 12au7, 6922 or similar, then leaving them on 24/7 really won't make a difference (other than shorter tube life). As an aside, if you truly love your wife and children would you really limit them to a Bose system? In most states that would be grounds for divorce. |
If you cherish your tubes they start age from the time they get switched on, if the wife and kids don’t care about sound quality all day, get a small Sonus/Bose or whatever they’er called system for them. And heat from tubes also effects the internal chassis temps which can age the caps, also the power transformer that is the supply for all the heaters can run warm, this is long term ageing. Cheers George |