Kubala Sosna and Virtual Dynamics - Similar??

Anyone???

Not similar in my opinion. Based on somewhat limited experience with listening at shows, which is not the best way to evaluate either product, KS is full and rich sounding and VD is detailed and a little bright, in my opinion. I have less experience hearing VD than KS, so there is always the question of whether I was hearing was more due to the electronics and the speakers. The rest of the equipment was unknown to me, so I don't have any baseline for how this equipment normally sounds, but that room was bright. KS cables definitely have a full, rich, smooth sound.

I had an all Kubala Emotion cables on trial.
Power cords, spkr cables, interconnects.
To me, with my system ,ears and music, the sound was kinda of dead in the upper frequencies. They had good bass and midrange but without the upper end I could not get into the music.
Some say the Kubala dont sizzel the high end like other cables do and that it was sounds different. I think they actually mute the high end, high freq instruments lose there smack and feel.
Perhaps it was a impedance mismatch with my speakers and the Kubala cables or something like that.

They must sound good with other systems though because many others rave about them.

I own VD Power cables and speaker cables and to me for a copper cable it has great high end extension, of course along with bass, midrange, soundstage and all the things we hold dere.
They replaced silver Speaker cables.

Thank you Rayhall and Ozzy for your responses...

Ozzy...some questions...I see in your system you have the Master and Revelation series products....apart from better high end...were the two products "similar" in terms of bass extension, midrange and soundstage...

To get the "highs" you wanted...did you replace both the VD PC and SC at the same time?? Or did you replace one first and then the other....Basically, I trying to find out which one had the best effect first..

Lastly, is the Emotion series comparable to the Master or Revelation in terms of performance and cost?

Thanks again for your comments...and oh...Troy and David who sent me messages off line...

No special order. I bought the 20 Amp Master Power cord for my Hydra 8.

I am mixing Purist Cables with VD. I beleieve they synergize very well .

About a year later, I was trying to figure out what to use as Speaker cables . I wanted the Purist Dominus , but they are way too pricey. I came across a deal on the biwire 10 foot new Revelation 2. I dont regret it.

I have a Purist Dominus C power cord to my APL 3910 and a Purist Dominus C balanced interconnect from my APL to my Pass Labs x350.5 Amp.(No preamp) I also have the new Purist Anniversary Power cord on my Pass Labs Amp.

The Kubala is not the same type of cable.
Cost wise they are probably comparable.
Sound ,different spectrums.
The Kubala would be descibed as a midrange cable.
If your system is on the bright side or should I say highly analytical, they would be great.

Thanks Ozzy...

Sounds like you have gone through quite a bit to get synergy...from your set up..

To give you an inkling....I tested IC's Kimber KS 1030, AZ Siler Ref 2, AZ Matrix Ref 2, Cardas Golden Reference and a couple of others...

I ended up putting the Cardas Golden Reference between the Pre and Power amp...It gave a good tonal accuracy but is a little thick....I balanced this out by putting the AZ Silver Ref 2 between the Source and the Pre...

So this is kind of a benchmark for me...for IC's

For Power cords...I have a Hydra 8 linked to a 32 amp dedicated line...using a DIY Furutech cable (with their components)....I noticed that when I put all the equipment through the Hydra 8....The soundstage grew wider and the music became more controlled (blacker)....

However, I found that I had to bump up the volume anywhere from 3 db to 8 db to get the same effect if not using the Hydra 8...In short, it sounded a little veiled...

I did try the Hydra 8 with the Taipan Helix and Python Helix....Again...the smoothness of the sound is definitely there but this drop in db kind of bothered me...can't explain but did not like the sound....

Now I run my amps direct and the source and the pre through the Hydra 8...Sounds a little better...meanwhile I have ordered a Running Springs Audio Duke to test which will come next week...

So my point now is that with the investment to be made for power cords....well I would like to be sure and not take a leap of faith...in the case of these two brands, there are no dealers here....and so comments and sharing of experiences is important for me...

Thanks again
Teck

I have 3 dedicated outlets .
2-20Amp for my Digital and Analog and a 30 Amp for my Pass Labs Amp.
Amps lose some of the dyanmics when plugged into a conditioner, including the Hydra 8 and the Hydra 2.
Thats why Power cords are so imporatant on Amps too!.
Just run them straight into the wall with a good oulet. (I use The Wattgate 381)

Different cords match better with different equipment.

Generally, the better cords on Amps are ususally heavy gauge.
I really liked the Shunyata Annaconda, but prefer the Purist Anniversary. I was never impressed with the other Shunyata Power cords or for that matter there speaker cables.

HI Ozzy,

Thanks for the advice....time for me to go test with other cables that are available to me...

Teck

Ozzy. Did you have the Machina dynamica Brilliant Pebbles in your system when you had the Kubala cables??
Maybe that was the problem and you didn’t have a impedance mismatch or something after all, you could have just needed the Pebbles in your system.

Btstrg, The Pebbles are good , not that good however.

Yea! Maybe it was the clock Right? You should have tried the wall plates?

Btstrg, I get the impression you own the Kubala's cables or your just a wise as.

I did not mean to offend anyone with my personal opinion of the Kubala cables.

Joe Kubala was kind enough to send the cables for me to try. That is much more than many other cable company would do.
I have to believe that the Kubala cables would be very good in different systems, they just did not click in mine.
But there are many people who think they are the great. So, again , it must be a system match up thang.

The Machina Dynamica products are like seasoning, but they wont change the general sonic footprint of the cables.

By the way , I do have the wall plates. They are a pain because most power cords have trouble with the size of the opening in the wall plate. I dont see any sonic merits to it either.

I would think a 60.00 Audio Grade wall plate would have addressed the size off the opening to fit upgraded power cords??
Home depot must have gotten the order wrong.

>>I would think a 60.00 Audio Grade wall plate would have addressed the size off the opening<<

Not if your consulting engineer is Professor Irwin Corey.
:-)

Wow, this thread is a classic example as to why we all need to try out cables in our own systems. I too had my system fully loaded with K-S Emotion cables with Joe here as we tried one cable at a time with the Manley DAC --> Aesthetix Callisto Sig. --> CAT JL-3 Sig. amps --> SoundLab A1 speakers. PLC was an AudioMagic Eclipse II.

The Kubala would be descibed as a midrange cable.

My experience with the K-S cables indicates an opposite experience. These cables are VERY tonally coherent from the bottom octave to the top ... in fact about as good as it gets in this regard. There is NO emphasis in the mids at all.

To me, with my system ,ears and music, the sound was kinda of dead in the upper frequencies.

This too was exactly the opposite here. The K-S Emotion cables had impressive resolution and detail in the trebles. If you want treble roll-off, you have to look into the Cardas, NBS and Purist lines as it's not here in the K-S.

KS cables definitely have a full, rich, smooth sound.

Full as in tonally coherent? I would say yes. Rich as in layered and textured, long decays, etc? The Purist Dominus far exceeds the K-S in this regard....it's not even close.

After I cabled my system fully with Dominus PCs and ICs, and the Opis speaker cables, I borrowed some K-S Emotion cables again and there was no doubt that the K-S had far more coverage, resolution and a blacker background that the Purist could not match. But the Purist was returned as it simply conveyed the dimensionality, fundamental note and follow through of the harmonics, absolutely stunning dynamic contrasts and even more control and extension in the low end. But I always had the K-S strengths in the back of my mind; losing that top-end detail was not easy to handle.

The dream to find a cable with the Purist AND K-S strengths finally arrived with the aptly named Stealth Dream .... and more recently the Stealth Indra. The Dream PCs on my front-end components, especially the Aesthetix Io and Rives PARC is so far beyond the other PCs. The less expensive Stealth M5000 far exceeds these others in a few links here. The Dream is quite impressive on the JL-3 as well but not to the same degree. But interestingly, at a friend's home, it did not mate well at all with his Plinius amp; it was a rather flat result .... very strange. But the Dream PC redeemed itself on his CDP and line stage. And oddly enough, the Indra did not perform well in his system either but it is absolute magic here. I now have the Purist dynamics, 3-dimensionality and the K-S top-end extension all in the one cable line here. YMMV.

Johnb

Hello John,

Thank you for your contribution...this is interesting as there is a Stealth dealer here....

I have some questions for you:

- For PC's, your recommendation is for either the Dream or M5000...
- what IC's are you using? From Pre to Power (if you are in this configuration) and from Digital source to Pre (again if you run this config)...
- what speaker cables are you using...

So far, the Kimber BiFocal XL seems to do its job...the AZ Silver Ref 2 from Source to Pre is also okay...but the "if's" in my system are:

- Pre to Power IC (Cardas Golden Ref) sounds good and tonally correct but a little thick...
- my power cords probably since they are DIY...
- my source...
- room acoustics...

For the cables, I am interested to try the KS and VD cables but since they are not sold here....it is too great a risk to buy new....

The Stealth will be interesting and I intend to pay the dealer a visit this weekend to see if they have loaners...

Purist dealer is here too...so a visit to them as well...

Thanks

Just to add my 2 cents to this great thread. As with what many have said here :
( each persons system & rooms are very different)
& don't forget we all hear & demand different sound perameters for our systems.
With that being said I have gone through the cable bergade of testing , trying, & buying many a cable. Mixing & using all the same cable too.
I have in the last 4 years tried all the so called heavy wieghts Purist, Stealth, KS, Nordost, Ect. Ect. You get my point.
With out a doubt Virtul Dynamics are best cables to make my system perform the way it should. I will save all the nuances for a later review of VD cables.
They have done more for my system than any cable, ever.
So much so, that I have installed all Virtual Dynamics cables.
VD has a customer for life .
Rick & his staff are second to none. The custome service is outstanding . They take the time to help & answer all of your questions. They go above & beyond any cable company that I have ever delt with to make sure you are satisfied .
Try for yourself, you will not be diappointed.
I don't have any connection with VD, other than I'm one very happy customer.

Grr6001
How true...for testing...unfortunately, there is no quick fix to any of this testing unless you buy BOSE...

Boy...with all the reviews on VD cables, it sounds really like an end all cable....

I have to call these guys...

Teck5 - VD was just having a sale on demo stock. Today was the last day but if you call them soon maybe they still have some pieces left over. I picked up a pair of Master ICs for a great price and wish I had acted sooner on some of the other cables they had available.

I have also purchased a set of Master speaker cables that were being traded in by a customer who is upgrading. At regular prices these cables are way over my budget, but having already owned two VD power cords (bought used) and a set of speaker jumpers, I jumped at the chance to get more at these prices. They are excellent cables, as are many others referenced in this thread. Well worth checking out, if you don't like them they are easily resold at little or no loss.

Hi Clio09,

Thanks for the heads up....Boy the deals they are giving is great...Customer service is great and managed to get a pair of Revelations for my Source and Pre-amp...

Now I really have to make some choices on my CD source..

Hopefully this will work out in my system....

Hello Teck,

It looks like your system is in need of some attention at the source. Before you spend a fortune on ICs and PCs, you should try to improve the front end first otherwise I do not think you will ever be able to benefit much with any cable you purchase.

Hopefully you can borrow some cables and compare to what you currently own before you commit to the temptations of cables on "clearance". Here at A'gon, there are always great cable deals. Buying new cables brings on no benefit compared to used ones at much reduced prices.

I don't buy into the issue of "system synergy"; it all comes down to our own priorities. The tradeoff for me is to find that balance between detail and 3-dimensionality. But if tonal coherency is a mess, dynamics are compressed or the presentation is distant and flat, it's impossible to go any further with the cable evaluation.

I think we all have been guilty one time or another to go with a cable that corrects for flaws elsewhere in our system. Throwing in cables to "warm up" the sound just makes no sense. And we can get carried away with buying the higher cost cables because they get a lot of praise. It's easy to get trapped into buying such cables when so often our system is not able to take advantage of such refinements.

There have been so many claims about power cables here but it was only the last couple years where these started to make a big difference in my system. A power line conditioner (PLC) brought on such a huge improvement to my system's resolution that only then power cables made worthy contributions. And this was with top-notch gear from ARC, BAT, Wolcott, Aesthetix and CAT with Magnepan and Talon speakers. Much of this gear's capability was masked until the PLC was added. And then power and speaker cable differences became far more evident.

ICs and phono cables have always made differences for me. The link from line stage to amp has been the most critical. I currently use a 10m Purist Dominus between the line stage and amps. Long ICs are tough to find and can be very costly. Of all the long ICs I have heard here, the NBS Statement, Kubala-Sosna Emotion, MIT 350 and EVO, the Dominus is the one I prefer. Between the phono and line stages, I have played with numerous XLR cables from NBS, Kubala-Sosna, Purist and Jade, and so far the Jade Gold is wonderful here. I hope to hear the XLR Stealth Indra here soon. For RCA cables between the DAC and line stage, I use the Stealth Indra. The Jade cables are quite nice here too but I prefer the Indra with how it renders the harmonic overtones and the top octave's clarity in my system.

Power cables can be kinda strange in how they react so differently with various components like I previously described the Dream. When I went to a VD dealer last year, I also was able to directly compare the top Revelation PC to the Dominus Ferox into my Manley DAC. With the VD, the presentation was very flat, decays much reduced, the body of the instruments also clipped off. A return to the Dominus and the performance was right back there. We tried the same experiment with the dealer's Wadia CD playback setup and here the VD edged out the Dominus in portrayal of upper frequency information. But the Wadia was not at all in the same league as the Manley in terms of the 3-dimensional presentation....and this is where the Dominus was miles ahead of the VD.

John

John, thanks for looking out after my interests in this "slippery slope" and sharing your experiences...I agree with you that one should always test, test and test...

Unfortunately for me, as mentioned above, there is no international representation of these 2 companies where I live...thus the only way to "try" or to "test" in my system at times is to make a "leap of faith" based on fellow members use and recommendations.....

Of course, these recommendations are sometimes taken with a pinch of salt as there are so many variables as you pointed out in testing...so the only way is to test, test and test...which hopefully leads to synergy (pleasure to your own ears)..

Apart from getting a proper CD Source, there are two other variables that I have to take care of which I suspect is not getting me to that 3D sound.....

Room treatment and Power cords....all three things are going on at the same time which will take me a few more months to complete....

I am no acoustician (so lots of reading posts and understanding the nuances in between the lines of recommendations) and trying to get past recognizing what is being said versus "understanding" what it means...a little tough for me due to my lack of technical knowledge of understanding the different freq aspects..

As for the power cords, I stopped by the Stealth dealer yesterday and they were readily agreed to do in home loans for their cables...in fact there were ready to throw a bunch of them at me to bring home...

I didn't take them as I told them I am still in the process of evaluating my Digital source...so once that is done, I will be back...

John, I am glad that there are many great members in Audiogon, who willing to come out and voice opinions and recommendations to fellow members...this is great for guys like us who are trying to learn more...Thanks

Teck, Hi, I would be glad to share some of my personal testing with you. Please feel free to email me to exchange.
Thanks

Teck-
Since you're now down to CD source, if I follow correctly, my input is once again VD. I just replaced an Epiphany X PC on my APL-modded Denon 3910 with a VD Genesis and the difference is staggering. Much better bass and lower midrange (hearing notes not present before) as well as much more musical, dynamic and better imaging. I also have VD Revelation Sig ICs on the 3910 and yes, there is something to be said for the synergy, IMHO.

For room treatment suggestions, I would call Echo-busters. A small (relatively) package brought me a large improvement.

For a CD source, I would try to find a used APL-modded 3910. They are worth several times what you will pay for one, especially if it is tubed and recently upgraded. Again, IMHO. Good luck.

Thanks guys...

VD cords are on the way and will post my impressions once they arrive....thanks

I'll be interested in reading your thoughts on the VD cords Teck. FWIW, my tastes seem to run more in line with John's (Jafox). I have had some success with VD Master and Revelation power cords, mostly on amplifiers. I just returned a pair of VD Revelation speaker cables that Rick was kind enough to let me demo. I felt they had outstanding clarity, dynamics and power, and good attack on the notes. However, like John, I felt the decay was too quick, and not natural. I also felt that the presentation was too forward for my tastes, and the soundstage too flat, 2-dimensional.

Once I switched back to my PAD Dominus speaker cables, my speakers just dissapeared. The rear wall did too, as the stage depth increased 5 fold. While the Dominus isn't as quick on the attack of the note, it has a more natural decay. As I said to a friend of mine, the Revelations better defined the strings plucked on a guitar, but the Dominus gave a more natural sound of the guitar's wood body resonating. Kind of like picking between a good tube amp or a good SS amp.

Two very good, yet very different cables. I have not heard the K-S cables yet, from what I've heard though, they are closer to the PAD camp than the VD camp.

I'll also second John's opinion of the Jade Audio Solid Gold cables. Very natural, relaxed with spatial cues that come from well defined locations.

Cheers,
John

Interesting comments - my experiences were somewhat different with the VD and PAD cables. With PAD I got a "middle of the hall" and somewhat "veiled" presentation, which I didn't care for at all. On the other hand, VD puts me in the front row, where I want to be. As far as decay and depth of soundstage are concerned, I am getting plenty of both in my system using VD speaker cables, so my conclusion is that cables are obviously very system- and listener-dependent. Music preference also plays a role here.

John - One thing that I did notice about my Revelation speaker cables is that they took a LONG time to break in properly (750+ hours - 2+ months). Hopefully Rick mentioned that to you and you put at least several hundred hours on them before coming to any meaningful conclusions.

WOW !!!
My findings were the complete opposite of jayfox & jmc. Please , no disrespect.
These are just my feelings on just some of the cables I have tried in the last few years.
This just goes to show everyone that there is a major difference of opinions on cables. Not to say one is better than the other. Each System & Rooms play a MAJOR factor .
I found that the Virtual Dynamics cables were
better than anything I have ever tried.
Im using a mix of Genesis & Rev Sig & 2.0's in my system.
They are defiantly not to forward , in my opinion & do not show any decay in any frequency regions. I thought they are the most natural cables to date.
VD cables do have outstanding balance, clarity, timber, & dynamics.
& yes they are fast , defined & very revealing.

The soundstage & seperation was very realistic &
3 dimensional. My speakers left the room.

After a complete Purist cable upgrade to my system using both Purist Anniversary & Dominus.
I felt the Purist line closed my system in, like putting a hood over my speakers.
Yes they were good.
A dark background ,with great bass , but not at all what I expected. To rolled off in my opinion.
As for the K/S line , yes they are closer to the Purist line. But not at all close to the Virtual Dynamics.

I feel the VD cables just have that more natural live sound I feel we are all looking for in our systems.

Hi John / Fplanner2000
The power cords should be arriving hopefully this weekend or early next week....

VD had them in the cooker for 8 straight days before shipping them (per my request)...so this will reduce my burn in period a little...

I have also made contact with the Stealth dealer to test the Dream and M5000 cords....

Will post my observations after that...

Fplanner2000, I had a long reply typed out, but it just dissapeared on me. I hate when that happens.

Suffice it to say that I think we are both hearing the same things, but have different values. Yes, the PAD has a mid hall presentation, that's what I like about it. Yes, the VD is like being transported to the front row, that's what I didn't like about it.

When I go to shows/concerts or even sporting events, I do not care to sit in the first 10-15 rows. I feel that I can see/hear more of the overall production from a mid-hall perspective. You want to be in the front row, I don't care for that at all. I feel as if the music is being forced on me. I prefer a more relaxed presentation.

Yes, I've heard that VD products can take 2-4 months to sound their best. However, the money back guarantee doesn't apply that long. I couldn't wait that long either. After 10 days of running 24/7, the sound hadn't changed at all (these weren't new, but used cables anyway). I couldn't wait to get my PAD cables back in place.
I am grateful to Rick for letting me try them, and they do many things right, but they are just too forward for my tastes.

Obviously there are many out there who like front row presentation, look at the success of VD, Mark Levinson and EMM Labs gear. However, if you look at the success of PAD, BAT, Audio Aero, etc, you'll see that many like the mid hall presentation as well. That's why it's helpful, when asking questions on-line, to know what musical tastes you have and the tastes of the responders as well.

Teck5 may well be a front row guy/gal, we'll soon find out.
It will be interesting if he/she has a chance to hear the VD cords side by side with the Stealth cords. He/she will immediately know which perspective best suits them.

Teck5, BTW, I also agree with Jafox that you should probably address your front end before trying all of these power cords. Cables/cords are some nice finishing touches, but you must have a solid foundation. It all starts with the source.

Cheers,
John

PS: Yes, this is the short version. :)

Well that's why they make so many different flavors. :)

After I posted that last reply, I had a phone conversation with another 'audionut'. He also has tried VD and moved on. Similar comments. He made one comment that stuck in my head, he said "VD cables sound like very, very good stereo". I agreed. In both of our opinions, it was not a more natural live sound. So I guess it all depends on what you consider a natural live sound. Is the PAD rolled off? Is the VD artificially enhanced? Is the PAD soundstage artificially enhanced? Is the VD soundstage too aggressive? Only your own personal live performance experiences can help you here. As I think we all hopelessly try to re-create the live sound, be it studio or stage.

No, it wasn't Jafox on the phone either, nor does he use PAD cables. :)

He did say though, that whatever brings you personally closer into the music, is all that really matters. I agreed again. VD, PAD, K/S, Stealth, or whatever. In the end, all that matters is your own opinion, and what cables/cords make you happy.

John

BTW, I never tried the Rev Sig or Genesis, I have only heard the Nite/Master/Revelation series. I'm not tempted to go any further though.

Wow, this thread keeps on going like an Everready bunny.

Grr6001 - This is not a "one cable bests all others" thread. Keep in mind that my comments on the VD Rev vs. the Dominus Ferox were ONLY with two components side by side: the GNSC mod'd tube Manley Ref DAC and the GNSC mod'd Wadia 27 DAC. The major factor here was the Manley's ability to render piano harmonics and decays that the Wadia simply could not do. But it was ONLY the Dominus that brought this capability to the forefront. The VD PC significantly reduced the reasons why I would put up with the hassles of owning a tubed DAC. I am not talking about tonality issues or detail where the VD excels.

As previously stated, the VD rendered the frequency extremes with more coverage and control. But this is not significant to me if the harmonics/textures/decays are much reduced. And the same holds true for other components in my system like the Aesthetix Io & Callisto. I have heard so many preamps and only a few cut it for me.....all tube based. It makes no sense to find such a prize, with premium tubes that take the stock tube component to even greater heights, only to destroy the magic within it with cables that dramatically reduce these strengths. And again, other than the Stealths that I have recently switched over to, only the Dominus cables so far have allowed for such strengths to come through. I will have to borrow a few VD cables and try them elsewhere to determine if the result with the Manley DAC was typical with tube gear or perhaps unique.

Jafox- I wasn't going to comment further, but decided to since my experience has been quite different from yours. I think we are also obviously listening for different things, at different relative seating positions to the presentations and probably also to different music. That having been said, when I put a VD Revelation PC on my VAC Phi 2.0(tubes) and Revelation Sig ICs between my APL-modded Denon 3910(tubed) and the VAC, "harmonics/textures/decays" INCREASED and pretty dramatically, compared to the PADs I had. So, I would venture to say you had a unique experience in a unique situation and leave it at that. To try to extrapolate or infer any more from that at this point doesn't seem supported by the facts as you've related, IMHO.

The Cables have arrived.....
Will put them in today and post some impressions next week..

Teck5,
please remember that these cables do take a number of hours before one's system is able to resettle and relax.I find that 400 hrs is the minimum beofore you can form a opinion on what the cables are doing.You will be able to tell that the VD is doing things right, from the get go.If you think that it is good now,just wait for time to go by.Hope this helps-Dennis

I have an entire shipment of VD Master 3.0 cables and cords shipping out next week, Rick is including a bottle of quicksilver gold, once the cables are in my system should I let them burn-in before applying the quicksilver or should I apply upon initial installation? The reason I ask this questions is for evaluation purposes, will it make a difference with or without. Thanks

You MUST put it on straight off the bat!Quicksilver enhances the electrical connection between the metal connectors.It will take at least 3-days before the Q starts to really settle in and 4-weeks before it totally sets up.Make sure that you follow directions on how much to put on.You are in for a real treat sonically and hope this helps Dennis

Thanks Dennis for your replies, I am really excited about the VD products. I live in Wichita KS, so I have zero opportunities to listen or audition any highend cables or cords. I have to mainly go with word of mouth, reviews and people as yourself to help guide me along. In the past I have spent so much cash trying to accomplish my goal, although I don't believe I will ever obtain the ultimate, I hope to someday get close . One other component in my system is the Von Schweiket VR5SE of which I truly love, I'm crossing my fingers the VD's will bring out the best in my entire system
Then I may be able to relax and enjoy the music for a while.

Hi All,

Cable received and burned in 24/7 by VD for 8 days before shipping to me...(at least this is what I am told)....Below are reactions so far....AND PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT SLAM ME FOR PROVIDING THESE INITIAL REACTIONS....

Initial Reactions:
- extremely tough cable to work with, even with pre-forming or pre-bending into shape...
- keeps on popping out of inlets and do not grip very well compared to my Furutechs
- needs to constantly make sure there is no shift in weight for the cables to work loose..
- if I had to decide on this alone, these cables may not make it.
- it is so difficult the cable would not stay in the Naim CD player inlet (thus I have left one PC out).

I have a borrowed Naim CD2X (this unit is used, just traded in so I believe it is runned in) to test these cables(nice dealer who loaned it to me).

I bought 2 Revelation 1.0 cords and I have plugged 1 of them into the Pre-amp. 2nd power cord could not go into the CD player...so it stays out till I figure out how to manhandle this thing...

So far it has been running like this:

Wall --> Pre amp (VD Rev 1.0)
Wall --> Naim CD2X (Naim power cord)
Wall --> RSA Duke (Mongoose) --> Monoblocks (DIY Furutech cords)

See my system for other cable connections..

With the Hydra 8 in the equation, the reduction in dynamics is worse...sound seems to have dropped back by a few rows (rather than forward)...Have to really crank up the volume to get the same sound as before...

Now with the Hydra 8 out, the dynamics have returned but still detect that the sound is further away...vocals (male and female are good) but instruments not as prominent as before...

Now to be fair, since the Naim CD2X is new to this equation, I am recognizing that this player could be contributing to what I am hearing....since I have gotten used to my other Oppo 981 player...

I intend to run this configuration for at least 1 week before I switch back to the Oppo....I know I know, it is not the best player on the planet, but this is what I have to work with now....so please take these comments with a pinch of salt....

By then the Rev 1.0 should have added another 100 hrs (total close to 300 hrs) to it to get to the magic 400 hrs...

Will post again then.....

>>PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT SLAM ME FOR PROVIDING THESE INITIAL REACTIONS....<<

They're your opinions and there's no reason to apologise for it. You hear what you hear. So what?

You paid the money and really shouldn't care what anybody else thinks. Your ears' satisfaction is what matters not some self appointed expert(s) here who claim(s) to know what's best for you. Everything in these threads must be taken with a grain of salt. Trust your ears not the resident forum genius.

Finally, there is no single manufacturer whose products are best for all systems. To say or believe that is very naive.

Good luck.

As you say, you have no baseline for comparison. I would put the Oppo back in, let it run for a few days, and listen. Alternatively, put your old cord back in the system with the new player and listen for a few days first. Either of these suggestions will give you some sort of a baseline, which you totally lack at this point and are therefore unable to evaluate the VD cords really at all, since you introduced another unknown variable.

Additionally, a new VD PC will probably make a more pronounced difference plugged into the CD player than the pre-amp. I would therefore really try to make that work - the cable bending can be a challenge, but is definitely doable with a little thought. For example, my CD player is 5' off the ground and I have a Genesis PC attached(a lot bigger and heavier than yours) with no problem. I'm sure many others have gone thru similar gyrations so you are by no means alone. Obviously we feel it was worth the drain bramage. Good luck

Teck5
you are experiencing normal cable issues that everybody must wrestle with(and I mean literally, when I installed my Genesis i/c's,I actually broke a sweat).VD cables should be supported by either putting something underneath or by wrapping a strong construction string around the cable and tying it to your audio rack or wall.I know they can be frustrating to deal with but they will show themselves if you have the patience on installation and in listening.Fplanner2000 is right about the cd player being the most important source component,the fact that you must turn up the voulmne more is a good sign.The soundstaging that you are experiencing will drop back further and also widen out as the cables break in ( this is not a forward sounding cable and should increase your soundfield).Dynamics will also change remember that your cd and preamp are swallowing a lot more juice than they are used to with the SOL circuit.Also you can suport the cables with objects that fit underneath the cables ( I do this with my p/c going into my dedicated lines and coming out of my Wadia).Please contact me if you need any other suggestions since these are the toughest snakes you will have wrestled!!Take care Dennis

Teck5,

Additional ideas..

You also may try to use the wall as additional VD support.
That is, bend the cable so the cable bends at near a right angle at the wall pushing towards the CD Player.
Of course the power cable has to be long enough to do this.
Also, for the wall outlets, try using the Wattgate 381 . It has the grip of death and will help grab the VD.

All the other suggestions about support underneath the cable and tieing a cable to them attached to your stand are good ideas.
My outlets are 4 feet off the ground so I also am using a large Radio Shack project box filled with pennies that sits atop a 1/2 Tube trap behind my TV near the outlet.
I have tied a lamp cord wire around the heavy project box and then around the VD Plug that goes into the wall.
Also, try putting a strip of electrical tape around the edge of the VD IEC that may tighten it up.
I am using a 20A VD Master cable to power my Hydra 8 and I think it is great!

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback...

Tonight, I will go wrestle with the cables and rearrange my cd player closer to the floor....

Boy this is real hard work...but fun..will be back to post again.

Teck5
one of the best supports is zip ties to your audio rack, since you can use one or two depending on the length you will need.Also you can start loose and gradually tighten as you fit the p/c cord better.The nice thing about these is that they never fail and really secure the cord to the rack.I hope that you will be rewarded for all the hard work that VD cords do require.Take care Dennis

I had a bear of a time getting my Master speaker cables in the system. I wasn't entirely confident in the gripping ability of the spades and really had to tighten them down on the binding post, as well as position the cables properly to ensure they would hold in place and put as little pressure as possible on the ends. I had much better luck with the ICs and power cords. However, the benefits of the sound improvement right now are far outweighing the negatives of the installation. It is worth having patience with these cables.

Ok....I'm baack..have been on a road trip

Thanks to all the suggestions and comments so far and I will try and keep this short and pointed...not going to try and explain every track on what I heard or did not hear,...

Some background info:
- cables have gone through easily about 300 hours since install.
- the 2 cords were installed on the Pre-Amp and Digital Source (Naim CD2X and Oppo 981)
- cables went straight into wall outlets and not through any Power conditioners. (I have 2 dedicated 32 amp lines).
- these VD cables are kinda of difficult to wrestle with in installing them and keeping them in place, slightest move and they dislodge...Learnt the art of keeping them in..however once your figured out how to bend them into shape, they stay...
- i limited my test to 3 CD's that I am familiar with, Vocals on one, Drums on another, and cymbals on another.
- speaker position had to be adjusted to re-focus the sound.

Impressions/Effects on the Music

Pros
- sound stage widen
- sound became front row, music came up front by about 2 to 3 rows...
- Highs and Bass immediately boosted

Not so Pros
- Boosted bass got to the point of sounding a little fat and loose. On poorly recorded RB CD's, this is really pronounced.
- had to crank up the volume (depending on recordings anywhere from 3 to 10 db) a little as the sound level kinda of dropped.
- the music sounded kinda of aggressive to me..

Overall a very good cable but I am not too convinced of it in my set up. Just to make sure that I am not making a mistake...I did a quick A/B/C test.

- put by DIY Furutech cords back in (now I know how bad they are)...
- Brought the cords to the Stealth dealer and tested in their system with my VD cables, against the Stealth Dream and M5000...boy there are differences...mainly in the presentation of the music in favor of the Stealth Dream (extremely neutral and nice and at least I have a benchmark).
- borrowed a JPS Lab Digital AC cord (put this on the Oppo) and my other Furutech went back in to the Pre-amp...
this cable seems to be less aggressive but seems more balanced in my system...the JPS lab cord is still in my system.
- I will be testing the Audience Power Chord and Harmonix Studio Master later this week..

So in summary and I have nothing against these cables, but unfortunately these cables are not working out so well in my set-up....

I would like to thank everyone for their input and hope that fans of these cords are not upset by my post.

I would like to thank everyone for their input and hope that fans of these cords are not upset by my post.

Nice to hear that you put forth the effort to try out some of these cables. You liked the Stealth Dream and you say it is our new reference. I can relate to that as it is mine as well. 8-) But keep in mind, it is your reference in the dealer's system so you still need to find out if it locks in at home. And don't worry about upsetting anybody with your own experiences/auditions/findings; that's their problem, not yours. Please keep us posted.

Teck5
one must go with what one hears!You are the person that must live with and more importantly, love what you hear.Not all cables work in all systems and others can show you things that you may not like. Audio is so subjective and your opinion is the most importtant!!Good luck Dennis

Thanks for the support...

One thing to note and put on record...this thread started out to find opinions between the two brands but I ended up testing the VD cables only....

Unfortunately, I was not able to test any KS cables in my system....so sometime down the road when this is available, will do so.

JaFox - thanks for the comments...I like the Stealth Dream and my comments "as a reference" is for myself listening to what a top notch cable can do...do not wish to let the others reading the thread think that I am so bold as to proclaim as "the new reference"...

Cenline - thanks for the comments as well and you PM's...

The interesting thing about this testing of Power chords is the ability to make sure that it works with the whole set up....no other way to do it except Patience, Patience and more Patience...

Thanks again