Koetsu black, lacking bass

You really don't know how it sounds....give it a few weeks at least

That doesn’t sound right for a Koetsu, even fresh out of the box. I personally didn’t have stellar results with the Clearaudio pivoted arms and Koetsu (Jade on a Universal 12” arm), but I’d still suspect something else going on, like the phono stage and its loading (besides the usual suspects of alignment, VTA, VTF, etc). What is your loading? Koetsu tends to like 50-100 ohms into active MC stages, or a SUT with 20x - 30x ratio into a typical 47K MM input. Also, I’ve experienced bass lightness when using an MC stage with too little gain (60 dB or less for the Platinum models @ 0.3mV output). You might try a SUT like the Bob’s Devices Sky 20 or 1131, with your phono in MM mode, which will solve your gain and loading issues, and will certainly get near the very best bass impact a Koetsu is capable of.

My Koetsu Black Goldline was awesome top to bottom and right out of the box. It improved of course, everything does, but it never ever sounded light, not in the bass, not anywhere else. If there was even any inkling of that from reviews believe me, never woulda gone near it. Last thing I can stand, lean hifi presentation. Guys are ga ga for it. Not me.

Got it a year ago, added 4 subs several months later, so can't say for sure it had the same subterranean bass then as now, but no way would I call it light then or now. Certainly not now! That thing goes low! I'm sure it went just as low right out of the box, just didn't have the subs to hear the last few hertz.

It went low with the ARC PH3SE and it goes low now with the Herron. Its on my Miller Carbon table and Origin Live Conqueror so that don't hurt. It has performed so flawlessly and consistently with different gear I find it hard to believe its the Koetsu. Even with whack alignment. Which I doubt- alignment cannot be off, or you would not be hearing greater clarity than the old Lyra. Clarity is the first thing to go when you are off. All your associated gear is hifi, the Koetsu is your one really good sounding component. Well okay, the Mac. Possibly. Main point, of all the equipment you listed including the Lyra the only one definitely NOT guilty of being light in the bass is the Koetsu. The Mac, probably, is fine. All the rest, lean.

So what I'm reading, you added a bona fide high end and pretty much irreproachable $2500 cartridge and iffy entry level $150 outlet at the same time, and for some reason decided to blame the cartridge. 

I would send it back if you can. Gear that sounds that bad out of the box ain't gonna magically transform a week or month or year from now. Don't take my word for it though. Get one from Synergistic Research, find out for yourself. Right outta the box. You will see.

Compared to a Lyra Kleos, the Koetsu Black is going to sound less resolving in the bass...and frankly IMO every else in the frequency spectrum as well. The Black will sound warmer than the Kleos. 
I suspect what you are thinking is clarity is in fact loss of resolution and transparency to source vs. the Lyra Kleos. The Koetsu is basically a very dated design compared to the new angle design from Jonathan Carr.

I agree with daveyf about the basic sound character of the Kleos vs. the Koetsu Black.  Something is odd about the setup if the Black sounds more clear but lacking in bass (it could be the original setup with the Kleos was off).

As to which cartridge should sound better, that is a matter of taste.  I don't think modern vs. old design is as much an issue, given that basic design of MC cartridges has not changed much.  

dpoud, your tonearm is too light. You have to add head shell weights. To get it right you really have to get a test record like the HiFi News Test Record which will allow you to set the resonance frequency just right. I try to get it between 8 and 10 Hz. Koetsu's have fine bass but they are a very low compliance cartridge and require a heavier arm.

Mike 

thank you to all who took the time to answer my questions. I've read somewhere else that adding mass to the headshell improved the sound of the black cartridge. What is the best way to add mass? I've read about people adding pennies to the headshell, which sounds a bit crazy and not something that I want to do. Is there a product out there for adding mass?
thank you

There are plenty of companies making varying weight cartridge screws to start with.
A friend has some on his table where the head of the screw is a large brass knob shaped afair which added a decent amount of weight.
Myself I machined a piece of brass to fit top of headshell with two holes to enable screws to pass through.
Yes you then likely still would need longer screws.

But as a test first a tiny bit of blutac with a penny or dime on top of headshell and see if it even helps before going any further.

His Magnify arm is a hybrid magnetic bearing (not as bad as the fully magnetic Clarify, but still), so I’d be wary of adding mass to that system (e.g. the tail wags the dog). Koetsu seems to like high mass AND rigid bearings, AND I haven’t had good results with Koetsu stone on the Clearaudio carbon fiber wand, so the tonearm is definitely in question as a possible culprit here.

Try adding one, two or three US nickels to the headshell. Each weighs 5 grams. You may then need to add some weight to the counterweight to adjust the VTF(2.5 grams).

Consider getting a high-mass arm. I have two for use with mc cartridges: Fidelity Research FR29 and FR54. I agree with mulveling that the Clearaudio arm is suspect!

Here you go  https://www.amazon.com/Tonearm-Headshell-Cartridge-Weights-turntables/dp/B01B8ONJVI

But I really suggest you get the test record!

Isn't the Black is the most darker sounding Koetsu, also the cheapest model from them? 

Mijo
Exactly what I made in varying sizes so to obtain differing weights from some old brass bar stock I had in my workshop.
Cut into slightly different lengths, clean up edges with a file, drill two holes and all set.
And sitting on top of a black headshell they actually look pretty darn good as well as being functional.

Did you change to the Koetsu at the same time as changing the receptacle? 
If so, have you tried your rig on a regular outlet? 

Nice way to do it Uberwaltz. 
As a rule it is always better to by a tonearm on the lighter side as you can always add weight. It is much harder to take it away. It is also helpful if you can match the cartridge to the tone arm. A good reason to have two arms is to have a heavy one and a lighter one. Now with Koetsu's they only use two motors the one with regular Sumerian magnets and the one with platinum magnets. In the black and rosewood they use plain copper wiring. Everything else gets silver plated copper. The platinum magnet motors use to go only in the stone bodied cartridges. Then they have the rosewood signature platinum which I have. Not only is it less expensive than the stone bodied units but it weights 3.5 grams less. It is a much better match for my 4 point 14 which is a heavy arm with an effective mass of 19 gms. A stone bodied unit would push it over the edge dropping the resonance frequency too low. Using the 4 point's damping system might make it work ok. I have never tried it. I do not like to use damping and prefer to match the cartridge to the arm. I should play around with it (the damping) but I have yet to muster the inclination. 

Mijo
Strongly considering an Urushi Gold myself which would likely be my swansong of carts.
Got a few arms to try it with.
Interesting times ahead......

Anyone here know what ’Platinum magnets’ are??? The Somarium Cobalt magnets are less powerful than neodymium magnets ( used in the Lyra’s)...as are just about all other magnet materials!

@dpoud - 

How much do you want for your Kleos?  

OP PM'd me, sounds like it was indeed the brand new Furutech outlet after all.

Love my Koetsu Black Goldline. But what I know now, lusting to get the best Soundsmith MI I can afford onto my Conqueror. Hyperion would be a stretch but you never know....

Great stuff, Miller
A prime example of why one should never change more than one item at a time as it makes it much more difficult to define what item had what change, good or bad.
If the Furutech outlets are anything like the SR Blue outlets they will require a fair amount of time to burn in and settle down so may just have to live with it and persevere for a while.

I believe the Furutech outlet is rhodium plated which can sound somewhat thin and chromy. I tried their rhodium fuse and did not like it. 

dpoud OP
Koetsu black, lacking bass, does anyone know if the black cart is light in the bass?

They were never bass light, as they were even better than the Supex SD900/1000 in the bass, and they were considered to be bass masters and almost up there with Decca London Gold’s.

Sorry if I’m repeating someone.
If all your alignments are right and your arm/cartridge mass resonant frequency is correct
Look at your arm height, is it "higher at the back" when playing a record, (arm not parallel to the record) this is a classic bass killer if it is. As your VTA is out the window.

Cheers George

I love Koetsus but having said that I was never that impressed with the Black as I have listened to several other cartridges that equalled or surpassed it for less money.

Still lacking bass would seem to indicate a problem with set up or arm synergy. Good luck solving it.

wspohn335 ... which other cartridges you would suggest as better that Koetsu black? 

Will take 100 hours of play for the bass to fully develop also you must adjust VTA after break in.