I often hear statements regarding Klipsch speakers as being a very good speaker for use with low powered, mass market receivers. Does this make Klipsch a "cheap" or low quality speaker? In other words, How well would Klipsch (specifically the KLF-30,RF-3 or RP-5)Hold up in a high end system of multiple Bryston amps and a Proceed AVP? I was considering one of these Klipsch models and was wondering if they would be up to the task.
I am not a big fan of the new series of Klipsch speakers. I think they took a very good name and they did more for their margins than they did for the quality. The older speakers were very good, with certain limitations. By older speakers I'm talking about the Heresey, Cornwalls, La Scala, and K-horns (Belles too, but you almost never see them used). Their strengths were efficiency and dynamics. For home theater, particularly if you like action movies, this was an outstanding combination. The limitations were imaging or soundstage, and roll off below about 35 to 45 Hz (depending on the model). Since your HT will likely have a subwoofer, this really isn't so much of an issue. So, I would recommend you listen to the older speakers if these limitations do not bother you. I used La Scalas and Hereseys in a theater set-up and was very happy. For that application they definitely hold up to high (end) standards.
I second Abstract7's comments. I use Heresy's in front in my movie system. Only horns duplicate that special "movie theater" sound--makes sense, since many theaters use horn speakers, usually Klipsch.
I've heard both extremes: seems that people either really like Klipsch, or they *really* don't! I've always been a fan of Khorns, & ever since I was privileged to spend some time with Mr. P.W.K. himself, I simply HAD to get a pair for my own. Don't have much corner-space (or any open space) in my large-ish living room, but when I happened into a good deal on Belles, I jumped & have never regretted it. Belles are made to work close to back walls, so that's a good fit for my situation. Yes the horns do have some tonal colorations, but they are super efficient & quite revealing, not to mention the speed & slam-factors. You can also tweak those resonances with Dynamat & lamb's wool, etc. there are a lot of tricks that you can play around with. I prefer the solid-state sound, & I've always found that big S.S. amps worked much better on my Klipsch than tubes do. MANY dealers have tried to sell me on tubes for my Belles, in fact Klipsch was designed with & FOR tube amps, back in the days before SS was even available. A trusted high end dealer once talked me into keeping my Belles at a time when I was considering alternatives, & that dlr. certainly had a vested interest in selling me some other speakers instead. I have used McCormack DNA-1 & DNA-1 Deluxe amps; the Ayre V-3 is even better. Cost a side-issue, the Belles can really pump-it-out too. We once measured 125dB SPL on the coffee table, with a lab-grade meter (*don't* try this at home - hee hee). I can't speak for any of the newer model speakers referred to above, but these old classic Belles are presently doing nicely in my $40K 2channel rig; hardly low powered / mass market.
Firstly, to answer you question: Get some other speaker. With bryston power isn't an issue and so you don't need the efficiency of klipsch horns. And soncially, I've never though much of them. A dealer talked me into a pair of epic series 2's several years back and I hated them. I was running them on a jolida tube amp and really wanted to like the sound. The synergistic cable helped and the dynamat I added to the cabinet walls had the effect of adding a subwoofer, it was amazing. But I still never liked them. They were harsh sounding. I remember playing the last of the Mohican's soundtrack a week or so after owning them and my sister just cringed at the violin climax's. Last week I was at that dealer and was listening to the kipsch line with the gold drivers in a 5.1 setup on a denon receiver. They sounded ok at first but the sound was bright and fatiguing. I just don't care for klipsch, they may have been great in thier heyday, before my time, but there are alot nicer speaker out there for the money.
I didn't mean to be brash or forward in that post. I agree with the other posts that the older classic models may have been/and still are nice(r), but the newer stuff isn't anything spectacular. Get a good conventional electrodynamic transducer type speaker, Bryston is a good choice in amplification.
I'll stop posting I promise. I'm just trying to address the question, which gets lost on alot of threads I've noticed. I think what alot of people mean by "klipsch being a good speaker for mass-market gear" is that they may be one of the fewer higher end/higher priced loudspeakers that present a nice stable resistive load for the amplifier. That coupled with high efficiency means that someone who doesn't want to give up their reciever but move up to better speakers will be able to hear the advantages of the klipsch. Obvioulsy, a pair of Thiel's (which, incidentally, is what replaced the epic-series 2) may not give much of a sonic improvement if the amp now struggles.
Ez I was waiting to see if you have anything more to add before I jump back in :-) Dynamat on SIDEwalls is something I'm going to ask you about; that sounds interesting (most people just put it on the horns). However even the good old Klipsch can be harsh-sounding if you don't have them set up well, which can be difficult. You simply must have good cabling & equipment matches for the application in order to achieve good sonic results, while realizing the efficiency & dynamics of horns. It is no easy feat to pull off the right balance, so if one is not willing to work at it then you will be probably dissapointed as-above.
When I was looking for speakers I read that "Higher Life" by Steve Windwood was a good cd with which to audition speakers. Yes, the sould was LOUD and strong and in your face specially at the start of that song with all the percussion. However, the commanding "beat" is what made the impact. When I tried the same cd on a comparable player/preamp/amp combo BUT with a pair of psb stratus golds the "main" beat was not as strong or present as with the Klipschs'; however, on the psb's I could hear every single downbeat between the louder main "whacks" which were so lacking through the klipschs that I felt like I was hearing a very different piece of music. From that moment on I knew I would never spend my money on Klipschs. I guess it's like Bose systems' everyone has heard of them and thinks they're great until they hear a decent pair of speakers where you can actually tell if the low chords are being played by a cello of a bassoon. Don't fall for the hype, keep looking for a set of speakers that will reproduce your music more faithfully.
P.S. Metalheads seem to swear by Klipschs!, no surprise!!
I recently auditioned speakers and found Klipsch particularly harsh. I listened to RB3 and SF2. I don't know, those horn tweeters were just too much for me, especially on very brassy passages. My ears were ringing. No doubt they had great bass response and presence, but the treble/midrange was just too much. I ended up going with PSB Stratus Bronze, at a lower cost than the RB3 here in Canada.
Viking there is absolutely NO metal at our house, nor any rap-crap for that matter either. And don't even SAY that B-word! These classics are so revealing that you won't like 'em unless the setup is just right (which is not easily done) so your experiences don't surprise. That's MY story and I'm stickin' to it!
It Ez again. Firstly, Mborner, PSB might be a really good choice to audition in that price range. Another option, and I don't know what your budget is, but I'm perfectly happy with my Biro L/1's. Its a very nice minimonitor at $1600 pr. and I'm satisfied with the sound of my system, i.e. no plans to upgrade whatsoever. Bob, as far as my Klipsch I did put dynamat on the horns too (and the leftover on the front baffle). I also changed the internal wiring to the same synergistic research alpha I was using for the main runs. I tried every position imaginable. I put them close to the corner and experimented with their drivers axis crossing in front of my face, behind my head, directly at my ears. I.e. the toe in was up to 45 degrees sometimes like the BIG Khorns. I ultimately settled on the conventional position of the speaker firing straight down the room with no toe in whatsoever. Even after all the toeing in and moving to and from rear and sidewalls I was never happy with the sound. Believe me, I wanted to make my $1000 work. The associated equipment was a Jolida sj202a early handwired version (no printed circuit boards) with a California Audio Labs DX-1 and synergistic research a/c master coupler, alpha sterling interconnect, and alpha speaker cable. I was just never happy with it. The thiel CS.5 were so much nicer, much smaller cuter looking. A bit less bass but everything sounded nicer.
I don't know much about new Klipsch speakers and the only three I have heard was the Forte III, La Scala III, and Jubilees. The Jubilees were outstanding and far better than the other two. I have gone through a lot of older Klipsch gear and my favorites if you can find them are Chorus speakers. Forte I and II are nice. Never much cared for Cornwalls. La Scalas are great and the old ones built with real plywood the new ones MDF. Older pro gear like KP-450's or 456's are outstanding for home theaters or just two channel music. They beat most things you will hear but at that age require rebuilt crossovers since those deteriorate over time. Newest Klipsch have personally owned is probably from the late 80's and I would only consider the Heresy, Forte, Chorus, La Scala, Belle or KHorn. Other smaller speakers were made back then too but I don't like them. On the other hand those Jubilees I mention are old school sound and are really something and if you are buying new and have the money half the price of KHorns. Twice the sound to.
No, Klipsch speakers don't sound good with AVRs, which is the major problem, because that's what most hear them paired with.
The 3rd iteration of legacy models are far more refined in the treble and mid-range than most of their HT towers. Anyone who claims they're nothing but harsh and fatiguing hasn't heard a legacy model paired with a competent PP tube amp.
I have a friend who runs Alnico le Scala's he has the riser mod with 2x 4" ports in front. that riser extends bass down into the mid 30's hz range making them much more fuller sounding and IMO takes them from ok to great. I agree they can if not set up right sound a little etched on top. My friend runs them on 2wpc (45 tubes) from Decwar and I have to say his system is one of the nicest I've listened to for horns ever (granted I have not a heard many) I think the le scala can sound wonderful if set up is done right, but shrill if not.
If anyone has Le Scala's you need to try the riser mod it changes nothing to your speakers if you don't like it remove the speaker form the riser and take away. but IMO takes the Le Scala to a whole new level in bass response. the Ports I don't fine changed any of the speed you get from the horn.
his riser is 8" tall same dimensions as the Speaker, he took the bottom panel off the speaker and put the panel on the bottom of the riser, then put the speaker on top with some sealing foam around the edge . he used 2x 4"x 9" PVC tubes for the ports located on the front of the riser. I think he said it took the bass from 50ish hz down to about 36hz I'd say that's well worth it since it did not effect the speed etc. from the horn loading.
His system is making me feel the need to try horns myself. Anyone for some Living Voice speakers haha/ glen
La Scalas in particular seem particularly finicky. However I heard an apparently well set up pair (latest and greatest I think) at Capital Audiofest last year and the sound was particularly sharp, dynamic and captivating. Wish I could have spent more time in that room. I was expecting fatigue but did not happen at least in the ten minutes or so spent listening to whatever was playing. Plus they are industrial works of art worth owning for that alone IMHO regardless of how they sound.
" High end " audiophile equipment can be reasonably priced gear, or, can fringe on being ridiculously out of bounds, financially, to most. If I recall, Harry Pearson was the 1st to use, and refer, the term, high end. Back in the day, a Nad 3020 amplifier, driving a pair of bookshelf Kef loudspeakers, with a Thorens turntable, was considered high end, compared to an all in one rack system you could buy at Sears. High end is all relative. Klipsch, in my opinion, makes high end, but also caters to the entry level, typical consumer ( not discussing their huge presence in the pro market ). Aiwa, popular with mini shelf systems, only caters to the entry level, typical consumer. Aiwa, is not high end. Maybe not a good analogy. The terms " high end audio ", and " audiophile ", both represent a combination of " better " equipment ( in this case, gear, designed to retrieve more " information ", of recorded music, from our sources ), searched out, and ultimately owned, by individuals who, as music listeners, are more critical than most ( an Aiwa owner ), and desires, and, is willing to pay more for the equipment, to get more of this " information ", from their recorded music. I would say, there is a tremendous amount of equipment that is high end, and not all of it is expensive. Peoples biases exist, so like everything else, there are different viewpoints on the subject. I will say this. If differences exist, in say, a power cord change, that system might be considered high end. And if an individual plays around with power cords, he / she would be considered an audiophile. It should be noted, that I know people, who are audiophiles, but unfortunately, like the equipment, more than the music. However, it is the music that drives the majority of us, and our enjoyment can be found, very reasonably. Owning Klipsch Lascalas, although tweaked and modified, allow me to make this statement, and I would not own many $50 K speakers in their place. Not all, but many. Enjoy ! MrD.
I've decided to finally say something nice about my Klipsch Heresy IIIs because after all, my comments are always important...ahem...they're a really great sounding speaker, unless you own two of them like I do...in that case it's "speakers."
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