I am familiar with the Kirmuss system and think it works great for old moldy records. Sounds like you might benefit from a distilled water rinse as your last stage. Make sure you let the records dry completely before you play them.
Instead of changing the water in the Kirmuss machine, you can use a distilled water bath in a Spin Clean or alternate record bath.
Kirmuss users, what do you find?
I bought a nearly new Kirmuss record "restoration" system from a widow of an audiophile.
I mostly wanted it for the machine, but had to try his method just out of curiosity.
I followed the instructions, apart from the "Aftercare" section, which was influenced by the AudioPhile Man review (pt 2)
I got YUGE globs of stuff on my stylus after playing just 1 side of a "restored" record. OK, maybe I’ve not cleaned it enough? The record went back in for 2 more cleanings with the surfactant and ultrasonic bath for 5 min each time. Still ended up with a ball of something on my stylus.
I next used my other method, which was to scrub up a different record with some Audio Intelligent #6, 5 min ultrasonic bath, then dried with the Record Doctor.
Just a touch of lint (probably airborne that landed on the record) after 1 side.
I will say the sound of the record was noticeably improved with the Kirmuss chemicals, but I feel that this substance is NOT being completely removed with the ultrasonic bath.
Any users out there that can share their experience?
I have had a Kirmuss machine for 5 years. I have found the best way to use it is to use it like every other ultrasonic cleaner. Run it through the 5 minute cycle and then dry it. I forget about all of the other steps. I use a vacuum machine to dry the record as it is quick and thorough. There is no way any additional stuff should build up on your stylus after cleaning the record. In cases where the record is in particularly bad condition, perhaps with mold or something, I have found that cleaning the record once, then playing it, then cleaning it again gives good results. Playing a record, especially with a line contact stylus that gets deeper into the groove than a conical stylus, can be part of the cleaning process. |
I have a Kirmuss machine and also had the problem with globs of junk on the stylus when I followed his procedure to the letter (including studying his Youtube video). I decided the whole Dr. Kirmuss thing is B.S. and overly cumbersome. Now I use the Kirmuss instead with Tergikleen as a prewash for soiled used records, followed by a DW rinse in my Degritter II. That works far, far better, and never causes build up of any kind on my stylus. I now only use the Kirmuss machine that way. Not to mention his cleaning fluid is ridiculously expensive. I never used all the machine came with originally, but I knew I was never going to pay the $100 or so for the small refill bottle. |
Lubachi, All my records are in great shape, or I get rid of them. Cart is a Haha ML. Dwette, Tergikleen with a DW rinse is what I was planning to try next, then the ultrasonic. I have 2 Spin Clean machines and can load each with those 2 liquids. BTW, how do you quote people here? Never could figure it out. |
Traudio, you cannot quote people on this platform in the conventional way that most forums are set up. I agree that is a bit of a nuisance. What I have trouble understanding is, if you are just cleaning a record with an ultrasonic cleaner, whether it is the Kirmuss unit or whatever, there is no way the unit can add gunk to your record. Water and alcohol cannot physically deposit anything on your record. I am not sure what is going on with the cleaning process in your case but I would be hesitant to blame the machine. Just saying... |
No, @traudio is not mistaken or wrong. The "official" Kirmusss process really does cause that problem. I noticed it to, and I’m a very experienced user of cleaning machines and processes. I think the issue is that the Kirmuss system leaves residue on the records. There is no plain water rinse in the process. It even calls for spraying the record with a Kirmuss provided spritz bottle after cleaning, and that’s the problem. That is why I called out the Kirmuss process upstream as B.S. and said I abandoned it. For the very reason it leaves something on the record. In my opinion, a proper record cleaning regimen only takes away dirt. It should never add anything that isn’t removed before the end of the cleaning process. Kirmuss isn’t that. This is why I always end my record cleaning with a run through a Degritter II with nothing but DW in the tank. |
@traudio Type in your text as usual, then click the quote symbol and paste the quote you want into the space.
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Lol, My wife, the science teacher just got home from her trip. Showed her the new machine, which she's is excited to clean her jewelry with. Told her about the gunk built up on the needle when using the Kirmuss fluid. She said, "there's too much Propylene Glycol in your surfactant solution then". Dammmmm. Jaw on the floor moment.:-) |
Good to hear as I have a full bottle of DisOvery fluid from the 2 weeks I had a Keith Monks machine (Hated it). |
FWIW, Propylene glycol and propyl alcohol or propanol are related only in that both are 3-carbon molecules and both are alcohols, but with different properties. PG is what you put in your car's radiator to prevent freezing and overheating. If there is PG in Kirumuss's recipe, I would be surprised (because it's poisonous if ingested) but not amazed. Anyway, propyl alcohol or its isomer, isopropyl alcohol, are unlikely to form a precipitate with aqueous solution. However, I have seen the white schmutz that forms on the LP surface during the Kirmuss procedure, and it does look like a precipitate of something. I watched it happen at the Capitol Audio Fest demo, and the precipitate alone was enough to deter me from adopting the method, not to mention its tedious nature. |
Ethylene glycol is the one that is toxic. Propylene glycol is not toxic Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol Toxicity: What is Propylene Glycol? | Environmental Medicine | ATSDR. Kirmuss admits to using "propanol 1,2 diol" KirmussAudio-V8.3-User-Manual-Vinyl-Restoration-Feb-19-2019.pdf which should be propylene glycol (Propane-1,2-diol) Propylene glycol - Wikipedia. Propylene glycol is often used in general cleaning agents; it's used as a stabilizer Liquid Detergents - Propylene Glycol Sector Group. |