The only thing I can say is that it takes just one click (about .5db) for me to start to hear something coming out of my speakers. What used to take to get to satisfying levels with my Marantz (-43db), I’m now getting at -20db, or thereabouts, if I’m thinking correctly.
My Marantz has 200 steps with each at .5db (from 100 to 0, or max) and the Kinki has 256 steps, each at .5db (?)(from 0 to 255).
The readout is at 20 and I’m hearing everything. I was perfectly content at 20 and it was only after trying out some jazz that I realized the SPLs were much lower than what I’m accustomed to. Turning up to 30 just made it all the more realistic sounding, along with the SPLs that I’m used to listening at.
Going through my CD collection I’ll make sure to try out some piano and let you know if it sounds good.
OK. So if I understand correctly setting the volume control to around 30 on a scale of 0 to 255 seems about right on the recordings you’ve tried so far.
That suggests the gain is fairly high, and means that the sensitivity spec I referred to in my post dated 7-8-2018 is probably inaccurate, with the sensitivity numbers being lower than indicated.
It also means that using the amp as a power amplifier, in conjunction with a separate preamp or other component providing significant gain ahead of it, might be problematical. I had been toying with the idea of using this amp as a backup for my VAC power amp, and/or rotating it with the VAC now and then as a fun experiment or for a change of pace. (Using the Kinki as an integrated amp without a separate preamp would not be appropriate in my system, because I would not want to be without the signal processing and other functionality of the DEQX HDP-5 I use as a preamp).
Hello Al, From a review I read (can't find it now) there is someone who noticed the same thing you have and asked to have the gain reduced so as to not come on so much at lower settings and they adjusted it for future models.
Maybe they could do something similar for you. Alvin is very responsive and since they make them as they're ordered, maybe some accommodation can be at hand.
@nonoise, it sounds like you are putting your audiophile approval on the EX M1.Still waiting on OCD hifi guy to demo on Utube. Plus i am waiting on my Vidar to return from the manufacturer who was checking for High D/C offset while connected to a Microzolt M2.. Believe it or not both makers could not find the High D/C offset despite a code coming up on the Vidar. None the less, It has a clean bill of health now so the Vidar is going up for sale on ebay in antisipation of the EX being the stunning performer it is being touted to be..
Congrats! I still have my demo in-house and think this piece is a killer because of it's performance+build quality, and then you add in the cost factor it's off the charts.
I'll be giving a five star rating when I finally write the review in the next couple of weeks for hometheatrreview.com.
This amp looks a bit like the Norma ipa-140 ! anyone knows if the sonic is in the same ball park ? Is this a true balance amp ? and is there a difference in sound quality between the balance input and the line input ?
Just took a look at some screen shots of a Norma and I don't see the resemblance but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The Norma looks more like a cross between a Schiit product and something from Musical Fidelity to me.
As for it's having a true balanced input, one reviewer stated that it's only a "simple" XLR input, meaning it's not. I can't say for sure. If it is, then it's there to add in another type of input, widening it's appeal.
Wow, I'm overwhelmed with the responses! Thank you!
A potential customer shared with us the concern raised here with regards to the damping factor and the THD+N rating. I thought I should share my reply here:
"The damping factor is a calculated value of the engineering design. The calculation may differ from one to another manufacturer. The THD+N 0.006% was a measurement using A-Weighting method whereby the result is naturally lowered.
In 6moons' review, the published Audio Precision (AP) report shows THD+N at 0.02321%. This was a direct measurement without the A-Weighting filter applied. This tells us that there is no large local/global feedback. EX-M1 uses a relatively small feedbackloop at the stage one amplification. Kinki Studio chief Mr. Liu comment was, large local/global feedbackloop is undesirable as the sound will be muffled or overly smoothen - this is definitely not the Kinki Studio house sound.
Frankly, I wouldn't be too worried about the technical part of it. I am selective about the products I sell. You can be sure they are of world-class quality with consumer-friendly price tag."
Mike P said he listened to it and it was an excellant amp.. i dont think hes done an official “OCD Guy” utube review yet. However, his unoffical review is, it is kick ass, better than any 5 and probably 10 grand amp..
I haven't ordered it (or listened to it) yet but this has to be the best amp on the market in the under $5K range... I am tempted to drive 5 hrs to ATL just to hear this.
if you are in north America you have to order thru mike powell, the north american distributor. the price is now $2499 usd. https://www.mikepowellaudio.com/shop/
No, mine doesn't have the high/low gain switch as it was the first version. After living with my Marantz, which I had to turn up at least a quarter of the way before I could hear it, it's nice to have it come on with great resolution at around that first watt.
Wasn't it some tube amp designer (Decware?) who said something like, if you can't hear/use the first watt, what good are the remaining ones? Or something like that? With a proper set up, you can get most of what you need with that first watt, and this amp does that, so why curtail it?
I can see if one has a super efficient speakers (98db or higher) since you don't want to blow something out, but I like having it come on early. I find it very refreshing. 👍
Nonoise, to clarify a minor point, the gain of the amp affects the position of the volume control at which the first watt occurs. But the first watt is the first watt, and will produce the same volume with a given pair of speakers whether it occurs at a 9 o’clock setting of the volume control with a high gain amp, or at a 3 o’clock setting with a low gain amp.
On the other hand, of course, the first watt of two different amps can sound considerably different.
I contacted the designer, via email, about using his amp with my modified Klipsch Lascalas, ( 104 db ) and he indicated the gain switch was for situations such as this. I obviously do not need this much power, although I have had monster sized amps driving them in the past. I always prefer smaller amps ( with less signal path / less output transisters ), but the circuitry with the EX-M1 is quite minimal, considering the output of this thing. Enjoy ! MrD.
Thanks for the clarification, Al. I was under the impression that some watts were wasted if one had to crank up the volume before hearing something.
And, mrdecibel, the designer of my now, sadly gone, Tonian Labs TL-D1 speaker was of the same mind as you. He felt that the best amps had just one pair of output transistors (one per channel) as they had the speed necessary for sounding real. As one doubled up or went further, it slowed and muddled things too much for his tastes.
I was under the impression that some watts were wasted if one had to crank up the volume before hearing something.
That would be true if the combination of amp gain, preamp gain (if there is a separate preamp, although of course there wouldn’t usually be one in the case of an integrated amp such as this one), and source output voltage is insufficient to drive the amp to its maximum power capability even with the volume control at max.
That can happen in some situations, and in fact I’ve been discussing just such a situation in a recent thread which involved the possibility of using a Herron phono stage to drive a certain power amp via a passive preamp which provides no gain. But that would be a fairly unusual set of circumstances.
I wonder how does this amp competes against the Hegel Separates (P20 & H20), i have been considering reducing items and go for a super Integrated instead
Has anyone made any more comparos with other brands like Hegel, Devialet, Bryston, Pass, T+A (the ones around $10,000)
I believe @teajay compared the EX-M1 to a $30K T+A and found the T+A to better it in air, separation and imaging but found it to be it's equal in the base. Not bad company to be in. He should have a review coming soon.
It states over at vinshineaudio.com that Mike now handles No. American sales and servicing of equipment and to please buy from him as of 8/29/2018. It's about $89 more than if you bought it from Alex but you're getting the service from someone close by. That, and he has to stock the units as well so it's worth it, if that was part of your question. Sorry if it wasn't.
Man, this is exciting. I've been going back and forth between replacing my Anthem 225 with a tube or hybrid integrated, or going separates....maybe Class D ...maybe from PS Audio with a tube pre. Lately I've been thinking that the real difference between separates and a good integrated just isn't all that much. This guy just might do the trick!
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