@ozzy62 may pull the trigger on the QUALIO IQ Ultra next week.
Got an itchy trigger finger.
Joseph Audio RM-33LE vs DeVore Gibbon 8, my experience.
As some will know by now I do have a habit of changing my equipment fairly regularly, sometimes buying an item and then selling it very quickly. This is usually because to me I just did not like the SQ, and I am not of the belief that give it time it will grow on me, that is more likely just being accustomed to it, not actually growing to love it! My mindset is that if I do not like it right away well I am likely NEVER going to like it period.
With that being said here goes with two sets of speakers I own.
First, and the longest owned, the Gibbons.
Nothing really much to fault with these stunning 2 way compact floorstanders. Obviously they do not go super low on bass but do run down to 40hz or so in usable output and as I listen to mostly rock and acoustic rock where the low E on the bass guitar is about 40hz I am not lacking in much. Saying that I did augment them with a small 10" sub just to fill in that bottom octave which it did very well indeed.
Their best attributes imho are their absolutely clear and neutral presentation of vocals and female vocals especially. Acoustic guitar and piano are also portrayed very vividly, not in your face but distinct, clear and easily picked out of any mix. They are non fatiguing in any way and I listen to them for hours on end.
So why look elsewhere, well grass is always greener on the other side!
Enter the Josephs.
Obviously these win hands down in bass output as well they should, not bloated in any way just solid tight fast punchy bass all round.
But to me they did not quite have what it takes in the mids to rival the vocal presentation or acoustic instruments of the Gibbons, not bad but not quite as drawn into the music as with the Gibbons. And they may have the tweeter from the Pearl but cymbal splash was very noticeable and slightly tizzy compared to the Gibbons.
So is this is case of David beating up Goliath?
Not quite, read on.
The above was reviewed at levels of 78 to 82 db on average, once I cranked up the juice to higher spl around high 80,s to low 90,s db then Mr Hyde crawled out of the Josephs and grabbed the music in a deathgrip and would not ease up!
Now the bass was truly visceral, feel it in your gut quality, not bowel inducing but much more palpable all round.
The mids took on a new quality and vocals and acoustic instruments shone like they should ( for my tastes), soundstage and the feeling of being with the music took over and I listened in a near dream state for a LONG time.
Does this make the Gibbons bad? Heck no but at the elevated spl the Gibbons did not really change nature much which is actually a very good thing and probably more a reflection of their ability to sing at lower spl rather than a failing at higher spl.
This makes it a very tough decision as both have outstanding qualities and if I really want to rock then the Josephs win out, but for more mellow sessions I prefer the Gibbons as they just do everything right seemingly no matter what the spl or subject material.
For now I am keeping both sets as it is too close to call right now.
Just some thoughts......
With that being said here goes with two sets of speakers I own.
First, and the longest owned, the Gibbons.
Nothing really much to fault with these stunning 2 way compact floorstanders. Obviously they do not go super low on bass but do run down to 40hz or so in usable output and as I listen to mostly rock and acoustic rock where the low E on the bass guitar is about 40hz I am not lacking in much. Saying that I did augment them with a small 10" sub just to fill in that bottom octave which it did very well indeed.
Their best attributes imho are their absolutely clear and neutral presentation of vocals and female vocals especially. Acoustic guitar and piano are also portrayed very vividly, not in your face but distinct, clear and easily picked out of any mix. They are non fatiguing in any way and I listen to them for hours on end.
So why look elsewhere, well grass is always greener on the other side!
Enter the Josephs.
Obviously these win hands down in bass output as well they should, not bloated in any way just solid tight fast punchy bass all round.
But to me they did not quite have what it takes in the mids to rival the vocal presentation or acoustic instruments of the Gibbons, not bad but not quite as drawn into the music as with the Gibbons. And they may have the tweeter from the Pearl but cymbal splash was very noticeable and slightly tizzy compared to the Gibbons.
So is this is case of David beating up Goliath?
Not quite, read on.
The above was reviewed at levels of 78 to 82 db on average, once I cranked up the juice to higher spl around high 80,s to low 90,s db then Mr Hyde crawled out of the Josephs and grabbed the music in a deathgrip and would not ease up!
Now the bass was truly visceral, feel it in your gut quality, not bowel inducing but much more palpable all round.
The mids took on a new quality and vocals and acoustic instruments shone like they should ( for my tastes), soundstage and the feeling of being with the music took over and I listened in a near dream state for a LONG time.
Does this make the Gibbons bad? Heck no but at the elevated spl the Gibbons did not really change nature much which is actually a very good thing and probably more a reflection of their ability to sing at lower spl rather than a failing at higher spl.
This makes it a very tough decision as both have outstanding qualities and if I really want to rock then the Josephs win out, but for more mellow sessions I prefer the Gibbons as they just do everything right seemingly no matter what the spl or subject material.
For now I am keeping both sets as it is too close to call right now.
Just some thoughts......
73 responses Add your response
@ozzy62 , hope you like them as much as I do my Pulsar 2’s. I, too, am curious about how they compare to the IQ’s, a speaker I’ve long admired from a distance. |
@ozzy62 Congrats! Heard nothing but great things about the IQs so would be very interested in your thoughts if you could share. |
Well it looks like they sold locally. The seller was very slow to respond to emails. I made my offer this morning and he replied to my initial inquiry from last night after that email, ignoring my offer. That was 10:00 am this morning. I get an email from him at 7:00 tonight saying he had another offer. Strange for sure, but it’s his prerogative to sell to whomever he prefers, I get that. |
It’s weird that there is almost zero information about these speakers on the internet. No owners manual, no reviews, no specs. I would like to know if they are as hard to drive as John Atkinson said the 33si version was. But I can’t find anything. And it makes me wonder if my 100 wpc SMc audio amp will drive them. |
@ozzy62 , If it has a passive radiator, I don't know where they put it. A bit more info on them: The seller bought them 4 years ago and the asking price was $2975 I don’t know if that’s helpful to you, but knowing he didn’t pay any more than that and maybe less, it seems after 4 years you can whittle some off his asking price if you are getting serious about them, especially for 20+ year old speakers... |
@ozzy62 As I recall that Stereophile review was very positive and may have even earned a Class A rating for whatever that’s worth. I’d expect the LE to be an improvement over the model they reviewed if maybe only marginal. Hard to see going wrong with these IMHO, and if I was in the market at that price level I’d go for them. But that’s me. Only downside is if for some reason you don’t like them, which I would think pretty unlikely, they might be a little tough to sell as they’re a lesser-known model in the lineup. Let us know if you pull the trigger — love to know your thoughts on it. |
@ozzy62 , Be hard to pass up that deal... |
@ozzy62 If they’re the ones currently available for $2300, I’d have a hard time coming up with another near full range speaker better than those for that price. I’m a big JA fan though so admittedly I’m a little biased. |
I think I am now deeply in love with the Joseph’s! I purchased two 13 ft lengths of Western Electric 10g bare speaker cable and made up two very nice looking cables with spade ends and a nice braided outer cover. They sound absolutely stunning, dead neutral, precise, tight, no hint of the top end fizz heard with the Nordost cables. Vocals have taken on a complete new life and these have truly moved into the next dimension! Really, really happy right now. Still may tinker with a tube amp down the road but for now it’s just enjoy the music and happy holidays! |
Prof I did indeed read through it. Similar journey although I have not documented ALL the previous speaker trials and tribulations..... Take way too long for me. Looks like I am back to a good start though with both speakers impressing me very much depending on cabling. So both are still staying for now. Now to just try and buy the right cables for the Joseph's first time hopefully. |
Prof. Glad you are amused! Wish I had been along the journey,more depressed than anything and just that feeling that I must be doing something wrong! Have been listening solid for couple hours now and do not feel irritated by the top end or out of balance feel that was ever present earlier. Time to relax and take deep breaths. |
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This is getting hilarious uberwaltz! But in a fun way. I'm enjoying reading your roller coaster ride with these speakers. Never heard those older Joseph RM 33s. I wonder how they stand against the newer models that I'm so enamored of. I know that the Pulsar monitors were designed from what Jeff learned doing the bigger Pearl 2 speakers. And then apparently it was actually designing the Perspectives where Jeff Joseph felt he advanced things there in the crossover etc to where he wanted to incorporate that in the bigger model, hence the Pearl 3s afterwards. |
Well good job I am a stubborn SOB! Finally have the Joseph’s sounding like I expected from day one. Went back to square one on speaker setup and changed them to woofer in. Hardly any toe in now even though EVERY speaker in this room has sounded best with quite a bit of toe in. And still the real deal changer was speaker cables, you would laugh if you could see what they are hooked up with now. Home brewed 101. I have lots of cable and wire acquired over the years from my real job in heavy industrial machinery installations. So I twisted up 2 pairs of 16/14 gauge from wire we use for 460v motor wiring and threw those in just bare ends. Now that fabled Joseph neutrality is shining through loud and clear. At last they actually sound better than the Gibbons! Of course what I am going to do for final speaker cable I have no idea yet but this suggests nearly pure copper is the key. |
No worries Prof, I can confuse myself at times...lol So I did put the Josephs into play with the new cables and...… Underwhelmed to say the least. There may have been a slight improvement but not to the extent I perceived with the Gibbons, very odd indeed. Do not get me wrong the Josephs are darn good, it is just that the Gibbons are better! In my system to my ears. And that is about all one can state...…. |
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Have not got round to swapping speakers back around but I did fit the Luminous cables in place of the Nordost while the Gibbons are in play. To ANYBODY out there who is still of the mind that speaker cables do NOT make any difference should come over to my house and LISTEN! Much deeper tighter bass, vocal definition and presentation much more profound, bigger projected soundstage. In other words a huge change for the better in SQ. May get round to speaker swap tonight although right now I am just really enjoying the music. But I have a very good feeling so far. |
I don't know those cables, but I will say based on this review they seem like a much better fit for JA. It'll be very interesting to hear your thoughts on this pairing. https://positive-feedback.com/Issue14/synchestra.htm |
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Just going to throw this out there and ask for opinions as it went through my mind last night. As the Joseph’s appear to be displaying symptoms in my system at odds with most reviews I read I looked at possible causes beside just my room, ears etc. Does anybody think that a change of speaker cable could have a significant impact on taking some of the upper end tizz and tightening everything up at lower spl? Currently using Nordost Red Dawn and I have read many reports of Nordost being somewhat lean and etched. Possibly solid copper or high copper mix? Rather than just give up on these speakers I think it would be wise to investigate all possibilities. What do you think? |
Prof From everything I had read I was truly not expecting this at all. I was thinking these would be my final speakers! Well I could but dream! Not one review pointed to an excess of treble energy or recessed depth at lower volumes. But we all know each system is independent and you do not always get the synergy you hoped for or that others achieve. A real shame because as furniture they are a work of art next to the Gibbons. |
Interesting uberwaltz. I haven't heard the old Joseph speakers, but of the Pulsars and Perspectives, I have sensitive ears yet I find I can listen to them forever, and get sucked totally in to whatever they are playing. Of course, I also love the Devore speakers too. Basically, JA and Devore are my current favorite two speaker brands (that I don't own that is...Thiel is the third, but I own Thiel). |