The Good Lord is strictly into BeBop. When he comes, The Miles Davis Quintet will announce him.
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
31,525 responses Add your response
Frogman, "pointless" was a bad choice of words; however, since I have no intention of becoming a classical musician, jazz musician, or any other kind of musician, this in depth discussion eludes me, plus we're never going to reach a "consensus"; maybe that was what I was thinking. While it's always good to learn new stuff, nothing has been altered by this cornucopia of musical wisdom. I no more listen for tone and timbre, than I listen for copper or silver wire, nothing matters but the subjective feeling I get when listening to good music on a boss rig. "Pannonica" is one of my favorite tunes, and I have numerous versions, all of which I like, but whatever is special about me and "Pannonica" eludes me at the moment. Right now I'm listening to Harold Land, on "A Lazy Afternoon"; it's real laid back, like a lazy afternoon. The music is composed of mostly standards, and Harold communicates the essence of each one of them. Every time somebody big came to town, all of the local musicians were on the set, and I was always seated at a table with one of them. In addition to what everyone came to hear, star performers always liked to try out new stuff, and the musicians always went wild, while I was sitting there thinking, "that's a little rough around the edges". Evidently my facial expression conveyed this to the musicians, because they always explained this "new stuff" to me, and I would think, "He needs to take that back to the wood shed, it's rough around the edges". I seem to hear differently from most musicians, and I see that hasn't changed. I never hear music in the way you and Leersfool describe it, with me it's all subjective. Well, what's next, moving along in this enlightening conversation mode. Enjoy the music. |
"Now WE MIGHT THINK.....". IMHO "WE" is most probably constituted of no more than Rok2id and his shadow. Frogman and Learsfool, FWIW I have found your posts, wherein you have tried to inform Rok2id, quite interesting and informative. It's nice to see intelligent and considered posts from folks active in music as well as audio. Stick around. :-) |
****Now, WE MIGHT THINK, that playing a violin is difficult, but it's not that difficult to the principal players.**** Aargh! Oh well, I tried. What can one say? BTW, I never said, implied, nor think that you or anyone else is a "mindless moron". However, a few more posts like your last one and I may change my mind. Cheers. |
I like to listen then read up on what I heard to try to understand it better. Squeeze pad controller for squeezebox is great for that. You can bring up a tab with links to multiple key Internet music information sources like Wikipedia and all music for artist track title and album. It adds to the experience. Sometimes knowing more about what is playing before hand helps to enjoy more but not required to like something or not when I hear it. Usually I like first then learn. Or dislike and same. It helps to know more about something you dislike. You might like it better next time. |
@Schubert and Mapman -I agree with Schubert that Glenn Gould just doesn't do it for me, at all. I frankly don't really get why so many people think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Certainly Bach would roll over in his grave.... @Frogman - thanks for the compliments, and your posts are certainly even better. @O-10 - sometimes your posts are much more saddening to me than Rok's are. I really am saddened that you seem to think that these things you describe are beyond your understanding. They are not! In fact, it really wouldn't take much effort on your part! I really don't understand why someone who clearly loves music as much as you do won't make the effort, which would bring you levels of enjoyment far beyond even what you have now. One specific comment you made truly baffles me: "I no more listen for tone and timbre, than I listen for copper or silver wire". Leaving the wire part of it aside, this truly is like someone in an art gallery saying that they don't pay any attention to color or texture. Tone or timbre (these are pretty much the same thing, by the way) are where the heart of our playing is - our personal tone is the most direct expression of our soul. That is our voice. And whenever you are listening to a great singer, yes you are indeed very much listening to their tone! Think of the other instruments the same way, especially the wind instruments, which are actually quite similar, being produced with our breath. I'll probably piss off some audiophiles here with this last comment, but I cannot resist also adding that if you don't pay any attention to tone/timbre - how the hell do you judge your audio system? For any musician, this is THE most important aspect of it - how close the system comes to resolving those sounds we work so hard to create. After all, fundamentally, music is the creation of sound in time. |
Learsfool, Harold Land has one of the most beautiful tones of any sax man; check him out on "A Lazy Afternoon" I use the word "timbre" when fine tuning the tone. For example; the three way custom speakers of mine utilize a "Heil AMT tweeter", and I had a problem with timbre between the tweeter and Vifa midrange. This lasted for years, until I hit upon Jantzen polypropylene caps. I use fine stranded copper wire for the Pioneer woofer, copper & silver, midrange, and heavy on the silver for the tweeter. No longer do I spend time thinking about minutiae, just music; although there is the possibility it's in the back of mind, but not in front where it can interfere with the enjoyment of music. Since we are both audiophiles, I enjoy all your comments; while I don't consciously think of music in the terms you describe, some where in the back of my mind, maybe I do. Enjoy the music. |
Schubert: *****Rok, all joking aside , you need some form of mental/emotional health care**** I get that a lot here on "Audiogon". In fact, your post is almost word for word, the first Post directed my way by our OP. Before he ever started this thread. The fact is, I am not crazy, I just speak the truth and Audiophiles think I'm crazy. Sort of like people's reaction to being in a clean air enviroment, it smells funny. I did have an frontal lobotomy in an attempt to be able to hear wire, and cable lifters, but it didn't work. I do appreciate your concern. Cheers |
Joe Alessi is a damn good player, period. In fact, I believe him to be the very best trombone player in the world - at least I can't think of another who is quite his equal. Met him when he came to do a master class at my undergrad school. One of the better brass master classes I have ever seen. It's actually funny that you bring him up, as his number one mantra was " try to play every note, even the first one of the day, with your very best tone." |
Rok, it's time to get back on the tracks in pursuit of "our jazz"; this is between 1950 and 1970. While "Nica" didn't write or talk much, she left us a book of photographs; that's our reference book. She absorbed jazz cerebrally, that's the only way it can be understood. Nica was sometime referred to as "The high priestess of jazz", that works for me. I'm going to begin in the middle with someone who was never given the credit or money due, "Bobby Timmons". He was born in Philadelphia the son of a minister in 1935. From an early age he studied music with his uncle. He first played at his grandfathers church. After he graduated from high school, he was awarded a scholarship at the Philadelphia Music Academy. Timmons moved to New York in 1954. He made his recording debut with Kenny Dorham in 1956. He became best known as a member of Blakey's Jazz Messengers. He was recruited by Benny Golson, who said he could play "be bop, funky, and a lot of other styles". His compositions connected with urbanites instantly; "Moanin", "Dis Here" and "Dat Dere" were on the jukeboxes in all major cities, they even did a line dance called "The Madison" to some of Bobby's tunes. Although his music was put to words, it needed no words, the music spoke for itself to the urban poor. Bobby Timmons was probably the least appreciated and most under rated musician in all of jazz. Unfortunately he died at 38 from cirrhosis. While I can't do anything about his rating, I intend to appreciate him more by adding undiscovered gems to my collection. Enjoy the music. |
O-10: *****Bobby Timmons was probably the least appreciated and most under rated musician in all of jazz.***** He seems to have been one of those guys that are brilliant wrtiters / composers, but their work becomes well know through the performances of other people. Sort of like Willie Dixon in Blues. I always thought 'dat there', was an Oscar Brown Jr composition. And I assumed 'Dis here' was by Cannonball.. Btw, I don't have anything by Timmons as leader. In Nica's book, he said he wanted money and a nice house. With these three compositions, alone, he should have obtained both. I hope he did. Give me recommendations for Timmons on CD. A few days ago I received your recommendation of Roland Kirk, "The Return of the 5000 lb Man". Love it. Cheers |
O-10: Jazz from the 1950's?? Can you think of a better place to start than 'The 100 Best Jazz Tunes of the 1950's.? Kenny Dorham -- AFRODISIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7myLXPUBB_w CuBop? Cheers |
None of this past tense stuff. He lives on. They all do. They always will. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY4YB_6P4qk He knew the roots of the music. Cheers |
Rok, you are definitely back on the track, especially with Kenny Dorham; but you ain't heard the blues until you hear them in a "Juke Joint". Albert King liked juke joints so much, I believe he regretted becoming famous; even after he became famous, he still lived in "Lovejoy, Illinois" which was in close proximity to a lot of juke joints. Enjoy the music. |
Acman3, that clip is an absolute gem; thanks for posting it. A TV show about Jazz that even teaches the viewer about some of its fundamentals!! Amazing! And what a great reminder about our changing times. George Russell's comments at 14:15 are especially good. Biggest surprise: A young Doc Severinsen (before he was Doc) improvising on the first tune. Who knew?! |
Who is Frogman? There are many Frogmen inside "The" Frogman, all stored in the recesses of his mind. When the music is resonant to some memorable experience, it will excite that memory. Frogman doesn't make a concentrated effort to hear the music, he lets it come to him. That's when it will excite the emotion associated with the memory of some long forgotten event. That's what listening cerebrally is about. Right now "Last Tango in Paris" is on my rig, it's the lush one associated with the movie. I see Marlon Brando and his lady without a name doing the Tango in Paris. This music excites all the memories I can associate with that movie. I made no conscious effort what so ever for this to happen, the music excited the memory it was resonant to; that's what listening cerebrally is about, it's letting your psyche do the listening. I'll respond if this needs clarification. Enjoy the music. |
O-10, thanks for the clarification. Issue of semantics and personal definition at work here. For me, "cerebral" and "cerebrally" would seem to mean the precise opposite of your definition. While I do agree with your description of the process of listening, it is (again, for me) applicable only some of the time. Being that music being listened to is someone else's expression of their experiences and memories, there are times that what the music precisely demands of me is a concentrated effort to hear it. |
Rok, I think the Bobby Timmons Trio's are the best for focusing exclusively on his music. The most amazing thing about his music, was it's instant ability to communicate even without words; take "Moanin" for example; somehow I heard the words before "Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross" sang it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldXi8bs6PSw Whatever the art, the bottom line is "communication". Bobby Timmons music was uncomplicated and it communicated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTsU_xoNyMY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEnbXVqQ1go Bobby was not economically successful for a number of reasons that are too depressing to go into, and one of them was drug addiction. Heroin was very expensive, and it turned a man into a slave. While some jazz musicians had such heavy psychological baggage that it's possible they would have used drugs whether they were musicians or not (Bird and Lady Day) others, such as Bobby Timmons had no such baggage, neither did Tina Brooks; I'm referring to the sociological background. I suspect the availability of drugs in New York and the influence of other musician addicts precipitated their use of drugs. One time and a person is hooked, there's no turning back, and then there's the living death before actual death. In regard to music, they couldn't play "Jingle Bells" when they got high; it always amounted to a "no show". Fortunately, that problem is not prevalent with today's musicians. Enjoy the music. |
O-10: Did you notice how Clark Terry and Muddy Waters meshed so effortlessly? Someone once said, Cannonball maybe, "It's not the same thing, but it's from the same thing". Speaking of Blues and Jazz. Cannonball loved to talk. Two guys from the 50's that were rumored, to be able to play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVFLYz0SdKg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH3JpqhpkXg Aaron Copland - "Is there a meaning to music? Yes. Can you state in so many words what the meaning is? No." Cheers |
Coltrane, "My Favorite Things" is so timeless; it sounds as good today as when I first heard it. McCoy Tyner's solo was even better. They didn't have Eric on that set, he adds an interesting touch. This is the third and best variation of this tune by Trane that I've heard, it never got too far out. Enjoy the music. |
O-10: I decided to try "This Here Is Bobby Timmons". His stuff is getting to be expensive on Amazon. Found this one in my collection. they were really Young when this was recorded. Great notes by Cannonball. He speaks of these guys as if he is introducing them to most of us. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kazM1KlaImY Cannonball also said this: "Modern Jazz obviously cannot and will not stand still. Modern Jazz traditionalists must realize that the music of Bird is only a logical stepwise development of that which has gone on before. Conversely, the Avant-garde cannot expect basic stylistic changes to develop among mature players through artifical stimuli; for the hysterical cry for change tends to give sancturary to charlatans." May be a little dated, but the last sentence is still very true!! Cheers |
The whole paragraph is true, not just the last sentence. Jazz can never stand still, and in this constant movement there is bound to be mistakes and successes. Anything truly free to change will do that. It will be messy,like the people playing it and listening to it, but to make rules to protect it is, ironically, the only thing that can kill it. The people claiming to save it, will be the one's who put it in a museum for preservation. |
O-10, understood; our listening room should be the place where music provides whatever it is we want from listening. I would only point out that it is not only musicians who don't shy away from having to make an effort to hear it. I have met many non-musician avid music lovers who appreciate being challenged by the music; it's a personal matter. |
****Always Suspected They Were Superfluous.**** Not sure whether you are serious or not; it is, of course, not true. If you would like to know why it's not true, I would be glad to tell you; just don't want to waste time in pointless arguing. BTW, the Miles clip is fabulous. My favorite band in all of recorded jazz. They played with an obvious connection to the past as well as an open window to what the future of jazz would bring. |
Bobby Timmons 'Workin out'album is a great one, and there he plays with Johnny Lytle. I will use the opportunity to point at couple of his albums as well. Timmons: http://youtu.be/ovPCAhzEvgw http://youtu.be/u58QYljKcf4 J.Lytle http://youtu.be/Hm5cXBulyaY http://youtu.be/PL5YmGFap-U http://youtu.be/VLddG-fDDuw |
One of My Favorites A simple yet incredible performance. Impossible for anyone to listen to this and not be moved I would think. Is it jazz? |
*****A simple yet incredible performance. Impossible for anyone to listen to this and not be moved I would think. Is it jazz?****** People of her era had to sing without the aid of electrical amplification. You filled the room by having a powerful voice. Sort of like Paul Robeson. Very moving song. Is it Jazz? I wouldn't say so. This and Jazz, are two branches on the same tree. But, she did perform at a lot of Jazz festivals, and that is The Duke on the cover. Let's just say, it's great music. Cheers |
*****The people claiming to save it, will be the one's who put it in a museum for preservation.****** Some of the people trying to save it, feel that, just because some guy paints a Soup Can, you don't go throw the Mona Lisa in the trash. That's all. Come to think, Jazz could learn something from the world of artist that paint. They hang Warhol's Soup Cans right next to Picasso's Guernica, which hangs right next to Rubens' Nudes and him next to da Vinci's Mona Lisa etc...... They value their Greats. Cheers |
*****Not sure whether you are serious or not; it is, of course, not true.****** Comes under the heading of "messin' with The Frogman". However I have never seen a conductor act like that. I like a show. Remember the French guy? Lenny? Being our resident Guru, of course we expect an explaination. Cheers |
Today's Listen: Art Blakey -- !!!!!impulse!!!!!art blakey!!!!!jazz messengers!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nghsczow3kM O-10, I agree with you once again. The best Jazz messengers group ever. Shorter, Timmons, Morgan and Fuller. I listened to it twice. Great playing by all. Why was there so much turnover in the groups? Did Blakey see that as his 'mission'? Was it by design? Talk. Cheers |