Alex, I was listening to "Howard Robert's is a dirty player", today. Great stuff. I had never seen the recording you featured. I will be looking for it. Thanks!
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
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Acman3, thanks for the Zenon clips. Great new player who has been making a lot of noise (sorry, couldn't resist :-) in the NYC scene for the last few years. Very interesting player in how his style is such an obvious mix of modern harmonic concepts, traditional tone approach (he studied classical for many years) and his ethnic roots. Love his playing! ANOTHER example! :-) |
Still waiting: ****The problem is, as I have said 3,025 times, Right next to 'Paterson' on the CD rack, is Peterson, Powell, Previn and even Don Pullen :) etc......... Why buy Paterson?**** ####Using your criteria then, what is the point of buying Salvant or Marsalis? What has either done as musicians that has not been done better by many previous masters?#### |
When there is controversy on this thread, I consider it my duty to express my honest emotions and thoughts in regard to the matter. I'll try to go back to the beginning and take on case by case. Rok, no one said Wynton could not play; he could be considered the best trumpeteer on the planet, as long as it's someone else's music and not his own. I could live without Ben Paterson, Miguel Zenon on the other hand was very impressive. Salvant and Marsalis don't even belong in the same sentence; while Salvant uses old material, her treatment of it makes the old material new beyond belief. In conclusion, it's not "new jazz", or "new musicians"; after considering Alex's post on the Dimitris Kalantzis Quartet, from Greece... it's new jazz and musicians from the good old U. S. of A.; they're too "stereotypical". If someone practiced, worked hard and got a degree in music, that would qualify them to earn a good living and play excellently, but not to necessarily be a "jazz musician". Enjoy the music. |
Thanks so very much Frogman. I would have never picked up the tempi issues myself. I did notice they listened to each other, which I found remarkable for kids. I thought the baritone was the star, amazing foundation for what was written as a harpsichord cnt. Re the Bach anything, I heard a nice performance in Dublin by a tin-whistle trio. |
The reason for buying music by living current performers is that they have to make a living if you wish to see them LIVE. Without the memory of live performance stored in you brain an LP or CD of a symphony would just be noise. I would think the pleasure that is jazz would be greatly diminished as well. Music is organic and the musicians and audience are part of the same organism . Musicians are serious and IMO audiences should be too ,within their limits anyway. |
***** what is the point of buying Salvant or Marsalis? ***** Salvant came into my universe out of nowhere. Unbelievable hype. A Jazz lover would buy her to check her out. See if the talent matched the hype. I did. She has talent. Her first CD was very good. Now we wait and see what follows. It takes more than talent to be a success in music. If she falls in with the right people, good song selection, gets the right advice, and follows it, and with a little luck, she may be good for a long time. We will see. She has the voice. Why would anyone buy Wynton? I won't dignify that with a reply. Cheers |
*****Rok, that article was silly. For a closing argument you will have to do better.****** I beg to disagree. ****Just let your music make your case. A little Sonny, A little Hawk,.. More will agree with you that way, and we can enjoy being told were wrong.;)****** A little Sonny never hurt anyone. Totally agree. Cheers |
Acman3: You are right, it's gone. I may have posted it by mistake on another thread, realized the mistake, and then deleted it. Failed to repost here. It was during the great Bullshit debate. I remember saying "Great CD, No Bullshit". This is it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOYYaBBJr_E I have all three of the 'Road Shows' in my 'cart' on amazon. Something else all ways comes up to push them back on the 'save for later' list. Cheers |
My new closing statement: http://www.seattleweekly.com/2011-09-14/music/branford-marsalis-the-problem-with-jazz/ Since this Marsalis, is the Darling of this thread, I am sure we will have complete agreement! Cheers |
Today's Listen: Oscar Peterson & Jon Faddis One of a series of recordings of Peterson with Trumpet players. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhLXJWgB5CI Love the playing. Not sure I love Faddis' tone. It's said he plays like Dizzy. I think that's Dizzy's tone also. Cheers |
Frogman, this might interest you. I was at the MN Orch. concert tonight, finally got to hear the great Gil Shaham and his Strad in the Korngold Vn. Cnt., a work I like but never heard live. The orchestra President came out on stage and announced the Minnesota will be the first American orchestra to play in Cuba, two concerts in Havana mid-May at the time of the Cuban Grammy equivalent . |
Rok, Faddis is actually much better known for his "screech" playing, his lead trumpet playing in big bands. That Peterson record he did is a rare opportunity to hear him in that sort of setting. Another recording he sounds fantastic on is Leonard Bernstein's recording of West Side Story that he did in the 80s with the opera singers singing the leads. It is worth listening to just to hear Faddis play the dance band stuff. |
Learsfool is exactly right, Faddis is best known as a lead teumpet player with great "high-chops". Personally, I have not been a fan of his jazz playing. It is true that he is a disciple of Dizzy,, but his jazz playing has often struck me as a lot of quantity without a lot of substance. I have never liked screech players who, when playing jazz, rely a lot on playing in the screech range to create the excitement without enough of the more subtle stuff to balance things out. Just my reaction to it. |
Schubert, the GREAT Gil Shaham indeed! I too like the Korngold; in fact, I have grown to like much of his work. I recently had the opportunity to perform his "Much To Do Anout Nothing" Suite, a very interesting work with a lot of charm; and which, like many of his works, straddles a fine line between accessibility (and even frivolity) with musical substance and a lot compositional craft. Thanks for the heads up re Minnesota. I believe we will be seeing a lot more of that kind of thing; really good news! |
O-10, great to see you back on the thread. As "second in command" :-) I would like to share a couple general observations about the direction of the thread which relate to some of your recent comments: I find it interesting how we (I certainly include myself) sometimes tend to read into comments what we want or expect to see in the words of others; this, based on our own biases and expectations. Human nature. Personally, in spite of my own strong opinions, I try to not get too frazzled by commentary that may seem off the mark or even ridiculous to me. I try, with various amounts of success, to use it as an opportunity to challenge, have deeper dialogue and possibly learn something in the process. Sometimes it works; sometimes not. This thread has existed for some time now and without digging too deeply into the specifics of its history, I think it is fair to say that one of the "controversies" has been the issue of the state of jazz and wether there is relevant new jazz being played/recorded today; or, wether good jazz is simply and only a thing of the past. To me there is no question that that answer is an unequivocal YES, jazz is alive and well. It has evolved as it always will and to try to keep it in the past is not only pointless, but goes counter to the spirit of the music. It merits the ungoing support of the listener. Case in point: I recently posted a clip by an impressive young piano player. Some liked it some didn't; as expected. No one suggested that this young piano player was the end-all, nor that everyone should run out and buy his recordings instead of those of Peterson, Tatum or whoever. Simply, that here we have yet another example of a promising young player who may and will probably grow into something truly special. Jazz is still here and here to stay. Importanlty, I am glad to see a "softening" of the hard-line stance which was often expressed by the die-hards early in the history of the thread that there is nothing new of value happening today. For me, the constant, pointless, and unwarranted negativity about the state of jazz is tiresome, counterproductive and, ironically, damaging to the health of the music. The greats of this music and their greatness don't need to be protected from the impact of new music that may not comform to our individual idea of the perfect jazz; especially when the complaining is not accompanied by a solid suggestion of a "solution". Imo, it's far more productive to support the kind of environment where creativity is not stifled and simply let the cream rise to the top. |
From "THE GREAT BULLSHIT DEBATE" :-) ****Does all / most of FREE, and AVANT-GARDE Jazz, fall under the category of BULLSHIT?**** - Rok Frankly, and no disrespect meant, I think the answer is obvious: OF COURSE NOT. But, as usual, we each have to arrive at our own conclusions. And, as someone famous once said, if you have to ask..... A milestone in the avant-gard jazz movement and, imo, one of the greatest jazz records ever (Tony Williams was 18 yrs old!!!): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cklbhkm1HrE |
In case they weren't obvious, a couple of typos; sorry: teumpet: trumpet "......Anout: About" BTW, Rok, if you are interested in the WSS/Bernstein recording that Learsfool mentions, for a fascinating peek into the process of its making check this out; priceless stuff: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rjxWKL6jhC4 |
Just to be clear, the low t comment was meant as a joke. I have always liked Branford Marsalis's music. I even managed to see his Quartet play once. He played some free music during the show, based on a chord, and they would improvise and let it take them where it wanted to go. He said they did this every night of the tour for their interest. The jazz that night was a very high level, very exciting for me, but lost my brother after about 10 minutes. |
Frog, to hear Shaham hold a long line that went 3-4, 4-4, 2-4 was something to hear.I've read his Stad is the best extant, I believe it. I would put him up with the 2 best IMO other fiddlers I've heard in person. Milstein and Oistrakh. sort of a happy medium between the two ! FWIW, intermission gossip had it the Minnesota agent beat the NY and Chicago to the bunch so I'm sure they will play in Cuba as well! Speaking of the NY, I heard them in some Berlioz on NPR under Andrew Davis, who seems able to get the best from any band, and they sounded really good. esp. brass. |
Old and New Jazz. As Branford said, there are only so many notes. After awhile it will repeat itself to some degree. Nothing new under the sun type thingy. Several years ago I was in San Antonio at a Best Buy store. They had a fantastic CD section, and everytime I was in town I went there. Once I bought a Multi-Disc box set by Ellington. At the checkout counter, the girl scanned it and said, "wow, that's expensive". I said, "yes it is". She looked at the CD for a moment and said, "He really must have been famous". I smiled and said, "yes he was". Every musical genre has a beginning, reaches an apex which is followed by a slow decline. The genres carry on, but a lot of people get off the train when the music stops speaking to them. They are replaced by the young, who think the current stuff is just awesome. Just as we did in the 50s /60s. Just imagine what the swing fans thought of Trane. There are no more people like Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Elvis, The Stones, Mozart, Bach, Goodman, Ellington, Mingus, Mahalia Jackson etc...... you get the drift. I just hope you enjoyed the ride when your prime coincided with the music's prime. That's all there is. Of course there is always a little overlap. We can all be thankful for the recorded media we have. And if THEY don't know who The Duke Is, then I don't know who Paterson is! So there! Cheers |
Schubert, I agree with you that Shaham is one of the best I have ever heard live as well. I have played with most of the really famous ones of the past twenty years now. Another favorite of mine, though very different, is Perlman. He did one of the best solo recitals I have ever heard on any instrument when I was in college, and my orchestra got to accompany him about 15 years ago for our annual gala fundraiser. Very nice guy, too. |
Well, its certainly nice to know that a musician of your stature agrees with me Learsfool. In the violin sonata realm , the best I ever heard was Joseph Suk , son of the composer and great-grandson of Dvorak who played often in Berlin. BTW, the Minnesota is sold out for next couple years, cost me $200 for a scalped ticket.Cheap for what I heard. |
Re Branford and "My new closing argument": ****However, sometimes the crap they say is so breathtakingly stupid, something has to be said in rebuttal. Hence the tangents····**** - Rok The level of arrogance and stupidity shown by Branford in that article would be breathtaking were it not for the knowledge that this is the same Branford that has ridden the wave started by his brother Wynton. I think Branford is a better jazz player than Wynton, but not nearly good enough to make him, as Rok suggested, "darling of the thread". I don't particularly care for Wynton's jazz playing, but acknowledge that he is a force of nature with his amazing talent as an instrumentalist, educator and advocate for jazz. When the Marsalis brothers came on the scene, it was obvious who the star was going to be. Wynton was serious and would never pepper his language with obscenities the way Branford does: "There's only twelve fucking notes" One of the most idiotic statements that I have heard in a while and surprising even for him, a musician that in spite of a fair mount of talent is a generic player nonetheless. He even copied his brother in the "Look, I can play Classical music too" wave. He is, unlike his brother, a mediocre classical player. This is the same Branford who, during his stint with Sting's (!?!?!) band decided he wanted to sub in the pit of Sting's newly opened Broadway show and was too arrogant to do what is normal and required (sit through the show and watch/listen to the regular player play the part), and instead went in cold and, as musicians like to say, stepped on his dick and was told by the producers to not come back. Branford is a good player, but only good and he is an opportunist and does not have nearly the gravitas and importance in the music world that his brother has. So, bottom line, I think he is full of it with the comments he made in that article. I would have much to say as far as a more substantive rebuttal, but the first reader's comment accompanying the article says it about as well as I ever could: --------------------------------- %%%% Everything that I dislike about Branford and his extraordinarily generic sounding recordings can be summed up in his own quote: " I mean, man, there's 12 fucking notes. What's going to be new?" " I mean, man, there's only so many colors. What's going to be new?" - Vincent Van Gogh, on why he abandoned painting 'Starry Night' " I mean, man, there's only so many shapes. What's going to be new?" - Pablo Picasso, on choosing not to finish 'Guernica' " I mean, man, there's only so many words. What's going to be new?" - James Joyce, on scrapping 'Ulysses'. What's going to be new? Many things... and none of them created by someone who sees nothing but a closed system. Branford has been singing the "there are only 12 fucking notes" line for so long that he has convinced himself. If he would continue with his search, he would find out it is no longer true. Bur he already has the answers so why bother looking. But to each their own. But where I have a problem in this shortsightedness is in how it can influence the young minds of young students and artists and stifle their growth. Art isn't anymore the notes than it is the instrument, the tones, the colors, the paint brushes or anything else under the sun. Art is the voice of the soul of the individual artist. Though important, these other singular things are technical matters that only give you the tools in which to express your soul. If you can't express ithat level of depth, all of these things are not going to help you. You'll just learn the tools and learn them well. To lump it all together would be diminishing the work of our greatest artists. And if you are going to concentrate on the 12 notes, then try this experiment. Gather 50 people and place them in a room. Take a tape recorder and then walk by each person and ask them to repeat, "There are only 12 fucking notes" and record each person. Now take the recorder and place it at the front of the room and play the 50 voices back and ask everyone how many various unique voices they hear. How many? Of course you can say, "The differences are not notes but various tones and or colors of the voices." Ok, but doesn't that count? If it does, then why would you focus on 12 notes when creating? What about the other aspects? It's simple, right? But when it comes to art you have to take it another step futher. At the foundation of each person is something that is incredibly unique that makes them who they are. However, not everyone is in touch with that something. In fact, very few. Artists are able to rediscover who they are and create from that place but not many can. Now you can think that's a bunch of hogwash and it's only one way of explaining it and I certainly will not say it's the best way. %%%% |
My best friends brother wanted to become a concert pianist, so his parents bought a baby grand piano. Hobart practiced diligently, and every time he practiced, the next door neighbor would come over and watch him in mesmerized awe. After Hobart finished, the neighbor would sit down and repeat him note for note; that was amazing beyond belief. Hobart went to Juilliard, got his degree in music and became a teacher. The next door neighbor became a jazz musician and was a star in St. Louis. The cat could jam, and I went to most of his performances over the years he played, until substance abuse cut him down. I never heard Hobart play, and my friend, his brother said he was into classical and taught music but didn't perform. Over the years Hobart lived an affluent life style; skiing, vacationing in Europe, bought a boat and retired in Florida after he left New York where he taught music. Although being a "jazz musician" never came up in Hobart's life, the fact that he never performed tells me he couldn't have been a jazz musician even if he wanted to. I said all of this to say that as fans we don't seem to realize how special a good jazz musician is; they're born, not made. No amount of study or practice will enable a person to improvise at the level of a good jazz musician, and no matter how financially successful some other musicians are, a jazz musician knows within himself that he can do something very few people can do, and no way can they learn how to do it. Financial success does not equate to being a good jazz musician and being able to rapidly improvise good sounding music; "either you got it or you don't". Enjoy the music. |
Today's Listen: Geri Allen -- THE GATHERING Nothing irritating here. Very nice playing. Just does not seem to go anywhere. Comes very close to sound generation stuff. Everyone just playing their asses off, with seemingly no regard to what the others are playing. Hell, I was looking for the visuals. The tunes seem to end when everyone just stops. This track has more bite than most of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX7lcPL5GxU Recommended for the modern crowd. If they call it Jazz, then it must be Jazz. Right? Cheers |
Even I , who knows next to nothing about jazz, gathered that Bradford was not all that from seeing his band a few times on whatever late-night show he was on, What really got to me was the deadpan expression on his face when f...ing Kenney G got to play the memorial piece on the show the night Dizzy passed. Arrogant people never get to the heart of the matter because you only learn yourself through other people. And only see God in others faces. |
Does anyone else have the Sophie Milman CD "Make Someone Happy" ? To me, she's the best of all the current "divas" out there, not a great voice but beautiful lyrical phrasing , VERY flowing and for-real passion for music in her soft-voiced manner. The ensemble work by the Toronto musicians is SUPERB, at times the bassist, one Kieran Overs, sounds like a twin sister singing along. As joyful a recording as I have ever heard ! |
Good for what ails ya!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0aIjyX7vwI No B, No O, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8LesTvNuaw Got me through Korea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8LesTvNuaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raNGeq3_DtM May be tooo hot for the OP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOotsq4soug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqSN-aBkunU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91Hp0wR1LY4 Cheers |
Frogman said "where I have a problem in this shortsightedness is in how it can influence the young minds of young students and artists and stifle their growth." I agree 100%, and this is one of the many reasons why Branford has always puzzled me - he is the polar opposite of his brother in this respect. Wynton is a great educator. It's almost like Branford is an evil twin.... |
Learsfool, Cicero, the wisest of the pagans, said "he who does not know what transpired before him remains forever a child" . The thing that makes you hunger to know the history of something or somebody is love. They both have ego to spare, I'd wager Wynton loves jazz much more than his brother, who I would guess looks upon it, consciously or unconsciously, as a job. |