Today's Listen: Charles Mingus -- CHANGES TWO These two CDs, Changes One and Changes Two, demonstrate that in order to hear Modern, Progressive or Avant-Garde Jazz, one need not listen to current day, wannabes(noise makers). This is very coherent and enjoyable modern music, done by the greatest Master of them all. It will grab you, and hold you from start to finish. If you love Jazz, you gotta have both. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upfBe_sGASYI always thought Ellington was the greatest Jazz composer. Hmmmmmm. As NOMAD said,"I must re-evaluate". Cheers |
Rok, each day I'm being made aware of how many killers I don't have. Besides being prolific, Mingus is one of the most unusual composers. Frogman's opinion would carry the most weight in regard to the question of whether or not Ellington is the most important composer; that's because my opinion is purely subjective, while he views it from a historical, as well as a musicians point of view. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB6GkA54n_QThis is about as original as you can get. Enjoy the music. |
*****Frogman's opinion would carry the most weight in regard to the question of whether or not Ellington is the most important composer; *****
I disagree. Any person who has been an Aficionado as long as you have, and has seen / heard Trane in person, knew Miles and his Aunt, has all the Jazz cred needed to decide who is the greatest Jazz composer. :)
Besides, ALL opinions are subjective, Otherwise, they would be facts.
Cheers |
|
O-10, the answer to the question "who is the greatest jazz composer?", as you correctly point out, should be approached from a historical perspective; and, like the essence of jazz itself, will not be entirely devoid of, at least, a certain amount of subjectivity. This question smacks of the "KOB vs SE" debate. Is one the greatest because we happen to prefer the music on one or the other; or, is it the greatest because, in spite of our preference for one music or the other, the work had the most impact and influence in shaping the direction of the music as a whole (historical perspective). In the case of "KOB vs SE", if we remove the tendency to disqualify it because it HAPPENS to also be (God forbid!) an audiophile favorite, there is no question that KOB had infinitely more impact on the state of jazz than SE did. There is no question that both Ellington and Mingus were great jazz composers (probably the two greatest); and both extremely influential. Interestingly, in spite of the tendency in some camps to both promote the idea that the "great unwashed" dictate what is good or not, and then conveniently abandon this agenda when it suits, I think that in this question we have a fine example of when the "unwashed masses" get it right: Ellington reigns supreme! Ask the average music listener (even the average citizen) who Ellington was and who Mingus was. I think the results of the survey would be pretty obvious. The average person might even be able to name an Ellington tune. A Mingus tune? Unlikely. Ellington was not only a great composer whose compositions (along with Strayhorn) have become "standards" (there's that pesky word again), he was a key influence in the development of Big Band writing which shaped an entire era, was a brilliant orchestrator who pioneered the idea of writing with the individual players' sound and style (an idea used later by Mingus); he also excelled at symphonic, gospel and soundtrack writing. In spite of all his excellence and influence, Mingus did not have such a broad scope as a musician nor composer. I think it can fairly be said that had there been no Ellington, jazz would not be quite the same today. When one considers the developmental timelines of the music during which both Duke and Mingus were active one has to wonder wether the same can be said of Mingus to the same extent. Mingus is often referred to as "the heir apparent to Ellington" and I think that pretty much sums it up. Now, for a more subtle and potentially interesting perspective via the thoughts of Mingus himself: http://mingusmingusmingus.com/mingus/what-is-a-jazz-composerAnd on Ellington: http://www.npr.org/2008/11/19/97193567/duke-ellington-the-composer-pt-1 |
I don't know if I've told this story on this thread before, I don't like to repeat, so let me know if I have.
I was in a funereal limousine on the way to the cemetery, in Miles hometown, and there had been a long silence until somebody mentioned "Miles Davis". That was when a lively conversation about his music ensued.
Out of the clear blue, the grieved widow piped in, "I remember Miles, he was that little dark skinned kid who was always trying to blow the trumpet".
After that, total silence all the way to the cemetery.
Enjoy the music.
|
Amazing isn't it, how the silence can be deafening sometimes? |
*****I don't know if I've told this story on this thread before, I don't like to repeat, so let me know if I have.****
You have told it before, and it's good enough to tell again. It's hilarious! I can visualize it so clearly.
Thanks.
Cheers |
Dave Holland has been putting out great music for a long time. These same musicians, except Nate Smith subbing for Billy Kilson on drums , put out a real good record in 1999. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2qIZ-BwiE4 |
Great clip, Acman3! Charlie Haden will be sorely missed. Fantastic example of spontaneous counterpoint by the two horn players. Chris Potter is probably the hottest young tenor player right now. To my ears he strikes a nice balance between the typical (and ubiquitous) post-Coltrane/Brecker sensibility and a more traditional tenor tone concept. https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=vPivKtpmvZE |
Alexatpos, I enjoyed the Iturralde clip; thanks for sharing. Interesting player. I have heard his very nice clarinet playing previously, but not his saxophone playing. His rather unusual tenor sound reminds me of Don Menza (West Coast). https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=Mk0nLtLpfiYBTW, while I was not able to download the Mayall clip, that record is a blast from the past for me. One of the first "jazz"/blues (non-r&r) records that I bought back in high school |
I just bought a copy of Wayne Horvitz – The President, after hearing it at a friend's home a number of times. Below is a link to the title track from the album performed live at the Third Door in Seattle Goes Round and RoundIn case I did not get the clickable link entered correctly, below is a cut and paste. Enjoy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqzF7v61B0E |
I meant the first track on the President album, not the title track. |
BTW, anyone have any thoughts on the Mingus/Ellington links that I posted? Curious. |
Frogman, they were so complete there was nothing to debate or dispute. I appreciate your efforts in getting us such a thorough disposition on the subject. Although I'm subjectively in the "Mingus camp", a question of this magnitude requires the objectivity and historical perspective you gave it, and since Mingus agreed with you, we can call that case closed.
Enjoy the music.
|
Rok, Juilliard is giving a concert titled "Lightning, Thunder and Fire" in honor of our impeccable taste on this thread. The Juilliard Jazz Ensembles explore the music of Clifford Brown, Max Roach and Art Blakey. It is hard to overestimate the importance of drummers Art Blakey and Max Roach in the mid-’50s expansion of the jazz idiom. Of the components that are central to jazz, rhythmic acuity ranks as highly as the ability to improvise, and both Roach and Blakey were ace timekeepers who expanded jazz rhythms by introducing myriad subtleties—some melodic—into the timekeeper’s art. Both were also bandleaders at a time when it was still a novelty for drummers to be calling the shots. The seminal ensembles they assembled in the ’50s, both of which advanced jazz’s stature on the world stage, are the subject of Lightning, Thunder and Fire: The Sophistication of the Clifford Brown-Max Roach Quintet and Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers. This concert by the Juilliard Jazz Ensembles takes place on December 9 in Paul Hall under the direction of guitarist and faculty member Rodney Jones and guest coach Valery Ponomarev. Moscow-born trumpeter Ponomarev played with Blakey for many years, as did Wynton Marsalis (’81, trumpet), the director of Juilliard Jazz, who joined the Jazz Messengers at the age of 19.
Juilliard Jazz Ensembles
Tuesday, December 9, 8:00pm
Lightning, Thunder and Fire: The Sophistication of the Clifford Brown-Max Roach Quintet and Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers with guest coach Valery Ponomarev
What made both groups so groundbreaking will be evident in the evening’s repertoire, which gets at the development of jazz as a composer’s music. The idiom’s modernist movement, called bebop, was still in full swing when both groups were making their first recordings in 1954-55, but where the modern jazzers of the late ’40s were often building on the harmonies of earlier popular songs by songsmiths like Cole Porter or Jerome Kern, Roach and Blakey were part of a wave that encouraged the composition of burnished tunes that were jazz-specific both rhythmically and harmonically. As a result, the term bebop was soon supplanted by the seemingly unyielding title hard bop, a nickname that suggested an entire scene of likeminded individuals doubling down on bluesy grooves. In the December 9 concert, jazz’s maverick streak is revisited during the Roach half of the evening, as the ensemble plots the distance between the Brown-Roach Quintet’s historic re-evaluation of Porter’s “I Get A Kick Out Of You”—a 1934 pop tune the fivesome stretched to the breaking point—and its introduction of “Joy Spring,” a lilting piece composed by the group’s co-bandleader, the trumpeter Clifford Brown.
Though Blakey and Roach enjoyed long, prolific careers, the half of the concert devoted to Blakey’s work reveals a key difference between the two icons. The Brown-Roach Quintet met an abrupt end in 1956 with the tragic car accident that killed Clifford Brown and pianist Richie Powell, but Blakey (one of whose nicknames was Thunder—hence the title of the concert) turned the Jazz Messengers into one of the most enduring small-group concepts in jazz, energized by the steady stream of young talent he handpicked until his own death in 1990. The ensemble functioned as a jazz finishing school before there were jazz education programs, which explains why the tunes selected for the December 9 concert (among them saxist Benny Golson’s “Along Came Betty,” trumpeter Lee Morgan’s “Kofo’s Waltz,” and Wayne Shorter’s “Sincerely Diana”) are among the first classics written by a veritable who’s who of musicians who penned them as Jazz Messengers; all of them would later become icons in their own right. Nurtured by one of the greatest talent enablers in jazz history, they came by their sophistication in a way that many would agree no longer exists.
Enjoy the music.
|
***** Juilliard is giving a concert titled "Lightning, Thunder and Fire" in honor of our impeccable taste on this thread.******
Well, It's about time!!
Mingus / Ellington -- They are both in a class by themselves, but not in the same class. Ellington transends Jazz.
Mingus is the best Jazz composer ever!(Small Group) Ellington is the Best Music Composer of the 20th Century. As the OP said, case closed!!
If I remember correctly, Mingus did not mention Ellington in his tome. Interesting.
BTW, Today's Listen is a Mingus CD. Includes a tune by Ellington. Will post later.
Cheers |
******with guest coach Valery Ponomarev******
What is a Coach, and who is this guy?
Cheers |
Rok, both of those questions are deferred to Frogman, because I thought the guy was a gal, and I never heard of a coach at a concert; this ain't basketball, that let's you know how much I know.
Enjoy the music.
|
Today's Listen: Charles Mingus -- THE GREAT CONCERT OF CHARLES MINGUS 2CD set. Very long tunes. 7.55 - 14.29 - 21.47 - 22.45 - 27.04 - 27.46. These are the lengths of some / most of the tunes. He often plays too long. Eric Dolphy really earned his money on this set. Tunes include: Fables of Faubus( I wonder who remembers Faubus), Sophisticated Lady, and Parkeriana(dedicated to Bird). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kilr601kki0If he were an actor, you would say he had tremendous range. Fats Waller to Bird!! Interesting music, but I could not help but think of what Armstrong said: "If you can't dance to it, it ain't Jazz". And anything Pops said, was like getting it from the Mount Sinai of Jazz. To be fair, some of these artist do seem to resist having their music called Jazz. Maybe we should listen to them. Mingus makes some very Juvenile and silly comments on the opening of 'Meditations On Integration.' He sure liked to talk the Race Card, esp overseas. This was recorded in France. And curiously, coming from a man who was too 'scared' to tour the South with Armstrong. A Jazz musician afraid to tour the birthplace of Jazz?? I still think he was a hell of a musician. Just not the man I thought he was. Cheers |
Just some thoughts on recent posts: O-10, glad you enjoyed the links. No debate necessary, but commentary always welcomed. Rok: ****What is a Coach, and who is this guy?**** Valerie Ponomarev is one one of the most highly regarded living jazz trumpet players; Russian and out of the Lee Morgan "school". The guy can play! A coach is simply a teacher. "Coach" is used in the Arts as a bow to the assumption that the performer(s) involved are already at a pretty high level of proficiency. To put matters into a certain perspective: when Phil Woods attended Julliard he had to major on clarinet. There was no saxophone major; never mind a jazz major. https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=7jaf_0m5Jw4****Mingus is the best Jazz composer ever!(Small Group)**** Probably. ****Ellington is the best composer of the 20th century**** Jazz? Probably. Any genre? Doubtful. ****If I remember correctly, Mingus did not mention Ellington in his tome. Interesting.**** Interesting indeed. Not surprising. Like most great artists, he had a huge ego. Not surprising that he would not mention the composer that he was referred to as "heir apparent" of. ****Tunes include: Fables of Faubus( I wonder who remembers Faubus), Sophisticated Lady, and Parkeriana(dedicated to Bird).**** All the mention that matters, I think. ****To be fair, some of these artist do seem to resist having their music called Jazz. Maybe we should listen to them.**** I pointed this out about 2000 posts ago. ****I still think he was a hell of a musician. Just not the man I thought he was.**** Many of our musical idols were highly flawed individuals. Personally, I think it is a good thing to recognize this and to take a bit of the edge off of our adulation; I think it puts their work in a better, more honest, and more "musical" perspective. Great observation re Dolphy. Tremendous range, and fantastic (if unusual) style. |
Rok, you seem to have a very faulty memory when it comes to race and the south in the 50's. Do you remember what happened to Emmett Till for "Reckless eyeballing" in Money, MS when he was 14? While you're learning about Mingus's music, you have very little knowledge about Mingus the person; he held his tongue for no one, and if he had gone south, everyone knew that he would have come back in a pinebox.
Enjoy the music.
|
****I never heard of a coach at a concert******
Nor have I. I see the word "Supervisor" sometimes also. Must be something to do with this Modern Jazz thingy. I am still trying to come to grips with Be-Bop!!
Pops always used to say,"beware of communist Trumpet players and Coaches."
Cheers |
****Mingus the person; he held his tongue for no one, and if he had gone south, everyone knew that he would have come back in a pinebox.********
Spare me, Please. And listen to the spoken intro to the tune I referenced. He sounded like an idiot!! Talking about concentration camps in the USA, while in Europe!!!! Give me a break!! I wondered what the Europeans thought as they heard him. He needed to bone up on his history.
I said once before, that he is very political correct. I have a couple of his interviews on CD. He always says the right(correct) thing.
Emmett Till was a Kid. Mingus was a grown man. There were millions of black folks, living just fine in this place that he was so afraid of. Including me.
And you got the Till story wrong.
Other than that, we are in complete agreement. :)
Cheers |
****** you seem to have a very faulty memory when it comes to race and the south in the 50's.*******
Well, since I was born and raised in Mississippi, I doubt that statement is true.
BTW, I think I had the most wonderful childhood a kid could have. Think back on it often, and with fondness.
Cheers |
If you look up the definition of concentration camp, they run the gamut from basic internment camps run by FEMA after natural disasters, to the harsh extremes run by the Nazis and other governments over the course of history. This includes the internment (a.k.a concentration) camps run after December 7th, 1941 into which our US Government forcibly moved over 100,000 Japanese Americans and Japanese/others. Not wanting to start a political war here but the US and alot of other governments over the course of history have, in point of fact, operated "concentration" / "internment "camps. |
In looking more carefully at the definitions, FEMA/similar camps would NOT fit the definition as people are not deprived of their rights in those camps for any reason by the government. My apologies for this mistake. With respect to the camps in WWII in the US, over 110,000 Japanese Americans and over 31,000 German Americans were sent to internment camps starting in 1942. Over 3,000 Italian Americans were also interned. |
Zephyr, maybe it's time for some "political truth" on this forum. While I've done my best to sidestep controversy, when it gets totally out of alignment, somebody has to straighten it out; carry on.
Enjoy the music.
|
I am all for "political truth". Some would correctly say that discussion of politics in an audio forum is inappropriate and not wise. The role and impact of politics in music is undeniable and well documented; so, to discuss politics in this sub-forum about music seems perfectly appropriate to me. Having said that, I think it would be wise to be careful about moral relativism re this subject. IMO, to compare the Japanese internment, as horrible and inexcusable as it was, to the concentration camps that other countries instituted is not reasonable. |
Lord, Lord, My Burden is great.
If Concentration and Internment are the same thing, then we can say, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Buchenwald, Sobibor, and all the rest, were Internment Camps. And that don't even sound right!! Sounds as silly and stupid as what Mingus said.
Mingus went to France, and said, in the introduction to a tune of his, that the US Government was building concentration camps to house black folks. This was in 1964. LBJ was President. He gave no indication this was said in jest.
The French, having operated at least one camp for Jews in Paris, must have been a little nervous, at the least.
A person can say somethinmg and change your entire perception of that person. A former hero of mine once said, speaking of some "plot" by the US Government, that there were B-52 bombers orbiting the planet Jupiter. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I have a different set of heroes now. None of them well known or famous. Just regular courageous folks.
BTW, the estimates are that about 20 million died in the European "Internment Camps". Anyone know the figures for the Japanese/German/Italian camps in this country?
Cheers |
****Ellington is the best composer of the 20th century****
Jazz? Probably. Any genre? Doubtful.
Well when in doubt, turn to the great unwashed.
You are locked in a room with headphones clamped on your head. You cannot remove them. The music is constant. You can choose what you listen to. The list you can choose from:
Schoenberg
Stravinsky
Glass
Shostakovich
Bernstein
Gershwin
Ellington
Some would choose Gershwin. Some Bernstein. Most would be jamming to:
"It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing"!!!!! hahahahhahaha
No one would choose the noise makers. So, If Ellington is not the best, it's between the last three on the list. And it's close!
Cheers |
|
|
|
Rok, Of your choices, just for fun,I would choose:
1) Ellington
2) Stravinsky
3) Shostakovich |
****No one would choose the noise makers. So, If Ellington is not the best, it's between the last three on the list. And it's close!****
Rok, we are all entitled to our opinions and to have favorites; but, to proclaim a "best" as a truth outside the scope of personal preference without being truly comprehensive is pointless. To omit Bejamin Britten, Richard Strauss (one of Mingus' faces), Bela Bartok, Maurice Ravel, Sergei Rachmaninov, Aaron Copland, Francis Poulenc and others while including Glass belies a limited understanding of the subject; sorry. Glad to see Gershwin on your list, 'though. Very underrated as a serious composer; perhaps due to the wonderful accessibility and tunefulness of his music. |
|
|
**** here's nice clip of Valery and big band;******
The question I have is this: Does this audience in Switzerland know who wrote this tune?? Do they think it's an original of this so-called big band?
That's the danger of this type of thing. Young folks will think Jazz started the day they first heard Jazz. They might even think wow, what a tune, and have never heard Dizzy play it. Food for thought.
Cheers |
Acman3:
You may be the only true Aficionado left. Excellent taste!!
Cheers |
...'The question I have is this: Does this audience in Switzerland know who wrote this tune?? Do they think it's an original of this so-called big band'?... As I am European I guees I should share some of my experiences. In swiss town of Montreux there is a Jazz Festival, one, if not the one, of the greatest in the world,that lasts two weeks, than not so far away in Italian town of Perugia there is Umbria Jazz festival, that lasts around 10 days, and both are full of the people, from all over the Europe and world,of course.That may not mean anything per se, but in all major towns in Europe you can find excellent jazz clubs and usually they are packed with people when ever there is a good show. Than again, I was in Nyc couple of years ago, in Jazz Standard club, Reuben Wilson,Grant Green J.R. and Godfathers of Groove were playing two nights, and the place was half empty, I even had the privilege to introduce my self with Mr.Wilson after the gig. What I want to point is that for us, people from Europe, those artists are trully greats, and the music itself is an art form, and maybe, just maybe, for americans they are only entertainers. For this reason and because of various political and race issues maybe lots of them felt better overseas since the 60's of last century. So, I would not think that 'swiss' or any other take the music for granted, and without any pre knowledge. Even more, because 'knowing' Jazz is considered to be a part of life style of 'educated' people. I am not saying that is the right way, but it might be a fact. That is certainly subject for another discussion. Take a look at this clip. Future generations of artists and fans? http://youtu.be/g121gvj_4aE |
I admit it.....I got sucked into a political discussion which i regret. I do not know if I contributed to political truth or not (probably not!) so you all have my apologies for kicking the tires on a subject that should not be on Audiogon! Guess we should practice 'dinner table rules',...no politics, no religion, etc...... Have a great holiday season everyone! Now, back to the music!
Heard that new jazz vocalist (Lyn Stanley) live in Atlanta a couple weeks ago and picked up the 2 latest discs (1 SACD, 1 CD); they were definitely recorded and cut for us audio-nuts. Take a listen, I was very impressed! |
****How else do you expect us Unwashed to learn anything?? :)****
Well, at least you have a sense of humor about it all. Seriously, all this demonstrates the futility of trying to establish a "best". Wether it's a player, composer, recording etc., there will be always be a handful that stand above the rest as pillars of excellence. In the arts, by it's very definition, individuality is a key ingredient of excellence. So, how does one designate a "best" when there is so much individuality as part of the mix? Not possible. One can streamline the list based on level of excellence along with level of influence and then really separate the men from the boys. Re the BBC list:
First if all, I thought it was a pretty good, if incomplete, list. Sorry to hear that you had appropriated it as your own; tsk, tsk, tsk! I was impressed that you had included Gershwin. But, you copied it and left out Britten! That name alone makes the list much more authoritative; he was a true giant. The inclusion of Boulez is probably a good one. Cage and Glass? As two of the greatest? No way! Influential? Certainly; and, very. But, what is "great"? Is great someone who is highly individualistic but who's grasp of so much of what constitutes composition pales in comparison to other composers? Like orchestration skill at the highest level with a thorough grasp of, not only modern techniques, but those of the great composers from the past; while having an individualistic vision. Seems to me that the title "great" should be reserved for the very few that had it all.
"If you feel empathy for his personal outlook, you naturally feel him musically more than some other environ-mental and musical opposite
who is, in a way. beyond you." - Charles Mingus
|
****The question I have is this: Does this audience in Switzerland know who wrote this tune?? Do they think it's an original of this so-called big band?
That's the danger of this type of thing. Young folks will think Jazz started the day they first heard Jazz. They might even think wow, what a tune, and have never heard Dizzy play it. Food for thought.****
What danger? And why "danger"? While I disagree with the mindset that anyone would think that it all started when they first heard it, why is it not simply a good thing that they hear it at all? That would be the beginning of the education. It has to start somewhere; no? I think that as much of a "danger" is dogmatism and the kind of musical fascism that dictates that the music cannot be an extension of the past, with new relevance and new relevant players (not simply "noise makers") and composers.
BTW, while I was not there (obviously) I would bet my Columbia 6Eye KOB, that before Ponomarev counted off the tune that night in Switzerland, the audience heard something like this:
"And now, a tune by one of the greatest jazz musicians of all time: "ANIT", by the great Dizzy Gillespie; arranged by Benny Golson"
Maybe we shouldn't worry so much about the young folks. |
Zephyr24069:
******Guess we should practice 'dinner table rules',...no politics, no religion, etc.******
What a boring place that would be. And 'Audiogon' could use an infusion of new thinking / subjects. I don't think there is much left to say about "Wire".
Cheers |
Alex, I want to thank you for imparting some "political truth" to this forum; jazz musicians couldn't make a living without Europe, and Japan; I was told this by "Frank Gant", a jazz drummer.
Enjoy the music.
|
Alexatpos:
Interesting comments about Europe and Jazz. The guys you saw in NYC, I have never heard of them. Could explain the half empty club. The old saying,"if you can make it in NYC, you can make it anywhere", is true. You have to be REALLY good to pack the clubs.
Maybe in Europe, Jazz just seems new /exotic, and a break from Oom Pah bands and Mahler.
One Frenchman's opinion.
Cheers |
*****Well, at least you have a sense of humor about it all.****
Of course I do. The whole thing was done in Jest. But you are the one that should be showing a little humor or humility for your comments about the BBC. :)
I just googled to get some names to put up against Ellington. Ellington was on the BBC list, but if he had not been, I would have added his name. That was the point of the whole thing. Just having fun. You should try it.
One word to you Frogman - CHILL !! Lightened up!!
This is Jazz for Aficionados, not finals at Berklee.
Still waiting on your choice of composer based on my scenario. :)
Cheers |
*****What danger? And why "danger*****
The danger is that people will forget the people that created this wonderful music. That people will make the noise makers the standard by which Jazz is played and judged.
This is esp true since the most critical Jazz was performed either before TV or when TV was in it's infancy. You have to search it out. So you have to know who to search for. I.E. if you wanna hear Tunisia, you look for Dizzy, not some Russian.
That represents a DANGER in my universe. This music has been under attack since it was created. I said this, 2000 posts ago. :)
And stop using all those big words like 'Dogmatism' and 'Fascism'. I have to get a dictionary to decipher your posts.
Cheers |
**** I would bet my Columbia 6Eye KOB, that before Ponomarev counted off the tune that night in Switzerland, the audience heard something like this:*****
you keep betting on these noise makers, and one day that 6eye KOB will reside in Texas!! But I hope you are correct.
Cheers |
