Jazz for aficionados
Classical Music and European history have a similar track. When the Catholic church ruled Europe, everything was about God. Or more to the point, their interpretation of God. The Classical composers followed the monetary support. The combination of Martin Luther, and much later, 1LT Jimmy Europe, and the U.S. Army, NY National Guard, 369th Harlem Hellfighters Band, changed everything for good. And for the good.
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Very interesting post! thanks....
Classical for me is like Tai-Chi....Jazz is like real martial art.... In Indian music the mix between improvisation and planning is balanced , it is why this style is so deep.... None is inferior though in any musical styles......
Each musician is a personnality and the life of a classical musician is not the same life than a jazz one in any written novel.... Chet Baker or Miles Davis dont look like the usual classical musician .... How Baker or Miles did their practice? They play all night in a bar drinking .... How did Murray Perahia did his practice? Alone in a room.... And between our two hemispheres one goes looking his internal map, the other one wait for the unrecognized around him.... Any musician can chose to be anything he want , he is free but habits are also masters.... We are programmed by ourselves... This is at the same time our freedom and the limit of our freedom... Our brain obey our heart, but when the heart has set his choice the brain take the habit seriously.... Any jazz musician can play jazz, or the reverse, but they win usually at one game or the other....Keith Jarrett being an exception....
But remember like said frogman that the greatest musicians were master at improvisation....The crowds came to see them improvising and were amazed... For example Bach walking kilometers to listen Buxtehude improvising, or Bruckner so amazing at organ improvisation that people dumbfounded claimed that he was Bach reincarnated....Bruckner was born the greatest organ improviser before learning how to compose... Remember Paganini mesmerizing audience in a trance by violin improvisation so flabbergasting people thought he was possessed by the devil.... Listz and Scriabin after him founded modern piano music by improvisation on the spot also.....
For example the Vivaldi phrasing style is so remarkable, that we know right on the spot that this priest with a special permission from the pope to interrupt a mass to play music, improvized so easily, that he said that he was "able to compose more speedily than for someone to transcribe anything written "....
Reality is a complex matter, the brain, too and the heart only is simple because he is the master of his two slaves hemispheric servants... Musicians improvise or play a written score because their heart said so at the times they chose....
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pjw, that Joe Morello clip is outstanding. Being a rather casual listener of Dave Brubeck’s music I confess that I did not have enough appreciation for Joe Morello’s playing. I’ve always thought he was great, but I didn’t realize that he was GREAT. His time is remarkable; it just doesn’t waiver. If only due to physical fatigue, if one listens closely to most extended drum solos one can usually hear a bit of time lag. Not here. To accomplish that while being creative and musically logical on that level is phenomenal. Thank you for that. On a conceptually more modern style (not necessarily “better”), Max Roach could do that:
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Hello frogman hope you are enjoying the summer so far. As a "casual listener" of Brubeck I was wondering if you own the great album Dave Brubeck Quartet at Carnegie Hall 1963.
Morello drum solo (over 10 minutes) Castilian Drums is a long standing favorite of mine as is the whole album. Funny thing about the great Brubeck Quartet is many jazz aficionados do not like them. Do you think its because of Brubeck’s compositions which have many variable time signatures like 11/9 for one. I have always liked the band and think the Paul Desmond, Eugene Write and Joe Morello are all outstanding professional musicians just like their leader Brubeck. Lastly thanks for the great Max Roach clips
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pjw, I don’t think it is the odd meter tunes that cause some to be luke warm about Brubeck’s music. In fact it is those tunes that became his best known. I think it is more the fact that Brubeck’s music had a distinct feeling and way with swing. It was very much in the West Coast style of Swing, not quite the same amount of swagger and feeling of the Blues that East Coast Jazz has. Some have referred to it as a bit “white”. Paul Desmond is one of my favorite alto players and for me he was always the main attraction of Brubeck’s band; a band that while not my absolute favorite, I enjoy very much. |
pjw, I realize I'm commenting among the heavyweights here, once frogman joined in. But I'm a big fan of Brubeck individually, many of his quartets, and particularly when accompanied by Morello. In fact I've posted "Castilian Drums" here previously. I respect many other jazz drummers but if picking a single favorite to listen to it would be Morello. His rhythm is relentless and impeccable, as frog pointed out. But for me it is also his melodic and creative playing. There is continual inventiveness, not repeated and boring. Being a Brubeck fan for decades I've thought about the controversies of his popularity. No doubt some of that is the "white factor" frog suggested. But I believe the biggest issue was his popularity itself. I think possibly some other jazz musicians resented his success in record sales and concert attendance. And some jazz fans felt he couldn't be that great when he was acknowledged by non-jazz fans. From both sides, he was so "in" he was "out"! |
Yesterday checked the hystory of his posts, he has not posted anything since the end of the last year. Hope he is ok. Have not seen @schubert posting anything also. Again, if you guys are reading any of this, just give us a proof of life,,, Paul, few pages back I have posted Paul Desmonds concert in Canada, if you do not have it, check it out...there is also a 7 cd edition of it...this one is double cd, on Verve, great sonics
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Hey frogman thanks for your take on Dave Brubeck and co.
pryso your input on Brubeck and co. is welcomed as much as the frogman
Its interesting how the both of you mentioned the "white factor". I remember when I read Art Peppers great autobiography Straight Life that Art mentioned numerous times throughout the book his altercations with Afro American jazz musicians because of him being white. This was such a regular occurrence that Art developed a deep resentment towards black jazz musicians which did not subside until much later in Arts life after spending some years at San Quentin Correctional facility and sober houses. Art had a great resurgence in the 70's and he and the great black pianist, George Cables, collaborated on the majority of Arts output as a leader during his "comeback" period.
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Hello Alek hope your having a great summer. The 7 disc set is 300 bucks on Discogs so I settled for the 2 disc set |
I am dismayed at the number of people that stay stuck on the old classic names. Not that they aren't worthy. For heaven's sake I started out on those same albums back in the 60s but if I had stopped there I would never have heard musicians like Furgison, Brubeck, and others, Also there are a huge number of new albums coming out that are great. Now I know that a lot of the music is someone trying certain songs from out of the history books to show their proficiency, but it doesn't have to end there and even with those oldies, there are newer ingenious ways of doing them that make a newer artist stand out in the crowd. One example of such an artist might be Youn Sun Nah. Now she does generic old songs and sounds just like everyone else UNTIL you run across tunes like her Jazz rendition of "Ghost Riders in the Sky' (the live version is 100 times better than the album version) and a few other songs she cuts loose on. There are things she does with her vocal cords that should be Illegal. I know of one jass site that lists most new albums out and they have many new ones every day. Literally Hundreds of albums just in the first half of this year. I have a small collection of albums (2000+ with over 700 artists) that I have come to find the old stuff Boring and am constantly looking for that new voice that is so much different than anyone else. |
I think that he has the right to speak his mind and new blood is welcome no ?
And anyway it is a shame Youn Sun Nah the korean jazz/pop/folk singer is not more known ... She is more than simply talented.... It is a versatile singer like Joni Mitchell was...A true artist... And why not Elena Frolova , a less impressive voice, but a no less impressive poet.... But here we are no more in jazz for sure... I apologize... i listen geniuses nevermind the genre anyway....I quit listening genre and style only long ago...Any great musician will do even chinese one, jazz or not... :) 😁😊
Then welcome to anyone who dare to speak his mind... Or is it a closed club? By the way i always spoke for myself and dont appeal toward an invisible crowd for help to attack someone, especially newcomer... Sorry but i spoke also my mind... We are all friends here and may differ of opinion, this is a good thing....Not a reason to throw stones to anybody.... I like discussion a lot with reason....
I will only add that i love classic in jazz because i dont know all of them by far.... Then my only criterion isnot new versus old jazz, but genius versus more ordinary.... Then i differ with our new guest on this point....
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frogman, he did not understand the "word" that McLaughlin had delivered when he had written it many years ago. And instead of "speaking" it as was intended he went into something of his own making that at times sounded like inappropriate and meaningless wandering. In fact, I generally like Jean-Luc Ponti, and I very much like his performance in Mahavishnu's Visions Of The Emerald Beyond. But here - no. There is a much better version of this composition where McLaughlin plays with his later Shakti group. Easy to find on youtube. This is a complex composition that has many subtleties, you can't just come out on stage and play it. Even Mclaughlin himself couldn't. |
