Just wondering.
Sheet music, and degree of difficulty. Would the written score used by the world's top Orchestras of a Beethoven symphony all be identical?
If they can and do get simpler, or less difficult, give an example of an Orchestra (name) that would use the simpler score.
Cheers |
Rok, you and Frogman can not communicate because he's speaking Spanish and you're speaking French. "Jazz", as ambiguous as that word is, is 100 times more definitive than "The Blues". Is one speaking of "jazz oriented" blues, or "Delta oriented" blues.
Miles went to Juilliard, and "John Lee" went to the juke joints and the cotton fields. Miles never got any closer to cotton than his Hanes underwear, or was that Michael Jordon; anyway you get my drift. Jazz and blues cultures are as far apart as night and day. A musicians music is intrinsically who he is. Forget about the music, simply go to "google" and compare the bios of jazz and blues musicians to see where I'm coming from. John Lee's nuts and bolts are the juke joints, cotton fields, and all the other cultural morays of African Americans from the Delta.
When you go to "google" and compare bios of musicians, you'll see where they are coming from, and where I'm coming from.
Enjoy the music.
|
***My impression is that when there isn't unequivocal agreement with your assessment of an artist there seems to be a knee jerk reaction in the negative instead of a substantive discussion of the particulars of the "why's and how's"; perhaps I am mistaken****
I think all three of us agree on Carter. Yes, perhaps you are.
***But, to suggest that those guys can't play is ludicrous; those guys can play and they demonstrate superior musicianship even if falling short in the area of authenticity as compared to Delta blues.***
Didn't say they could not play. Did not even say the tune was not blues. I was just pointing out that music can meet certain technical criteria, and still not sound like what the name implies.
****"inner workings"**** aaaaaiiiiiieeeeeeeeee!!!!!
you slay one dragon and The Frogman blindsides you with another! Mercy Lord!!
****The "authentic" but mediocre food, or the excellent Nuveau (and barely Mexican) food? For me, it's a no-brainer.***
Depends on the genre. Blues, Gospel, Folk and real Country (not C&W), has to be authentic, otherwise its not really what the name says it is. A lot of modern music has no 'authentic' component to it. It consist of just the notes on the page.
IOW, the current Queen of Opera Divas, can sing any gospel song ever written. Blues and country songs also. Even if this diva was born and raised in Germany. Right? She can get the nuts and bolts, oops, I mean inner workings, perfect pitch and tone, but I doubt if she would get the correct meaning of the music. She would not want to get on the stage with The Gaithers or Mahalia Jackson.
When I was reading your food analogy, I thought about the Little Stevie Wonder song "Finger-tips parts one and two. On the record you can hear a member of the band shouting to his band mates "what Key?,What Key?" hahahaha. Mom and Pop forgot to put the meat in the tamales!!
Other than these few insignificant points, we are in total agreement.
Cheers |
Interesting segue!
I don't understand the question. The score is the score and the music is the music as the composer intended it; no more, no less.
Rok, truly no disrespect intended, but unless I am missing something in your question, that is a rather bizarre question; and the reason I keep trying to encourage you to learn more about the... well, you know what (and it can't be bought at a hardware store).
Let me try to answer your question this way:
I am sure that you have several versions of LvB's 9th. OK, so when you listen to them do you hear differences in the music, version to version, other than possibly stylistic differences in the playing and/or singing? You shouldn't. The score is exactly the same always with the possible exception of relatively minor differences in the various editions (certain repeated passages, corrected notes etc.); but, those differences don't, in any way, make the music any more difficult or easier to perform. The scores of major works are considered pretty sacrosanct; you don't mess with them in a significant way. Don't confuse this with some versions of works performed by some of the "classical-lite" orchestras like that of that Andre Rieu dude where the scores are sometimes "modified" to better suit the showy vibe with the multi-colored ladies' concert dress; that stuff is pretty much bullshit.
I would appreciate some more info re your question to give a better answer. |
If the Berlin Philharmonic is playing Beethoven's Ninth and the Austin, Texas symphony is playing Beethoven's Ninth, are they using identical scores?
Cheers |
Ok, are you referring to the score in terms of the music (notes) written in it, or in terms of the visual APPEARENCE of the notes? If you mean the music, yes they would be identical. Berlin, being a major orchestra probably owns a set of score and parts. Austin, probably not and would rent a set from the publisher.
Now, I made the distinction between the music and the appearance of the score because some works are published by more than one publisher (public domain) while others (mainly contemporary works) are given publishing rights to one single publisher. When there is more than one publisher, the parts will look different as far as the type and size of print font used, size of the page, type of paper etc. But, the MUSIC (the NOTES) will be identical with, possibly, some very minor "corrections" of a wrong note or two. In fact, and ironically, some orchestras have owned their set for so long that the score and parts can be pretty beat up with countless penciled-in markings by different players made over the years to indicate a particular conductor's tempo and phrasing wishes, personal reminders about various musical considerations and everything from bowings for the strings (ever wonder how an entire string section bows up or down at the same time?) to sometimes hysterically funny commentary or "art work" about a hated guest conductor or colleague. This is the reason that most rental sets have a sticker on the score and individual parts stating that any markings must be made in pencil and erased before returning the set to the publisher; otherwise a fee will be billed for cleaning up the parts. Still, many of the markings remain or are not erased fully before going from Berlin to Austin and the Texans may get to see some markings or commentary in German. |
The Frogman:
Thanks for an excellent answer. You just could be the most valuable resource on all of Audiogon.
Can we now say that any difference heard between Berlin and Austin would be due to the difference in the skill level of the players? That's what I was trying to determine.
Cheers |
Absolutely! That, the skill level of their respective conductors and, as an extension of skill level, the stylistic identity of the players and hence the orchestra. Eventhough the traditionally strong stylistic personalities of the various orchestras has been getting homogenized in our era of globalization they still remain an obvious force. This individuality is a result of the cultural forces in a given country and the resultant training that musicians receive. Every major orchestra has a certain "sound" identity which would not be able to be expressed if the skill level of the players were not extremely high. The Berlin players are unlikely to "forget to put the meat in the Gerschnetzeltes" :-)
BTW, thanks for the kind words. There are others who are deserving; not the least of which are the music lovers. |
Before I get misunderstood, I meant crediting "Regina Carter" with my reborn interest in this music, nothing more or less.
|
Rok, while we both agreed on the old "Regina Carter", based on the "new" Regina Carter, I ordered her latest CD, "Southern Comfort"; she sounds so relaxed and confident now. Her new CD is derived from her roots in the south before she was born, I think it will be quite interesting.
Enjoy the music.
|
Rok, while we both agreed on the old "Regina Carter", based on the "new" Regina Carter, I ordered her latest CD, "Southern Comfort"; she sounds so relaxed and confident now. Her new CD is derived from her roots in the south before she was born, I think it will be quite interesting.
Enjoy the music.
|
Blues: Music Form vs Genre
Nuts and bolts blues, is the musical form. Muddy, Wolf, Hooker, and comnpany, is the Genre.
When I use the word Blues I am thinking of Muddy etc...
***Miles went to Juilliard*** His first mistake. I knew there was something wrong there.
"Miles has left Jazz and gone into Rock"-- Wynton Marsalis.
hahahahahha
Thanks for insights O-10. Spot on as usual.
Cheers |
*****I ordered her latest CD, "Southern Comfort"; she sounds so relaxed and confident now. Her new CD is derived from her roots in the south before she was born, I think it will be quite interesting.******
Let me know how you like it. And do yourself a favor and order this also. You will not be sorry!
http://www.concordmusicgroup.com/artists/andy-bey-and-the-bey-sisters/
Cheers |
“When I hear Jazz, my first instinct is to lean over to the guy next to me and whisper, "Fourth floor, please.”
― Jarod Kintz,
Jazz? The best of jazz for all its virtues cannot escape the limitations of its origin: it is indoor music, city music, distilled from the melancholy nightclubs and the marijuana smoke of dim, sad, nighttime rooms: a joyless sound, for all its nervous energy.
― Edward Abbey |
Rok, I'm hoping the CD will offer something I didn't hear on the computer, but before I get the CD, I must say; they have too much of a "popular" sound for me. Just from reading the song titles, and personnel, I'm saying to myself "It's got to be good", but in my old age, I'm very hard to please because "good" is no longer good enough.
These are my thoughts before listening to the CD, I'll give you a long write up after.
Enjoy the music.
|
Notec, if only I still had the vim vigor and vitality to hang at those nightclubs which were anything but "melancholy". Visions of beautiful jazzy ladies still dance in my head, while the live sounds of saxophones, trumpets, drums and many other melodic instruments haunt my memories; they remind me of nights of a thousand dreams that are no more. Have you ever been on the street of dreams?
Love laughs at a king
Kings don't mean a thing
On the street of dreams
Dreams broken in two
Can be made like new
On the street of dreams
Gold, silver and gold
All you can hold
Is in the moonbeam
Poor, no one is poor
As long as love is sure
On the street of dreams
Gold, silver and gold
All you can hold
Is in the moonbeam
Poor, no one is poor
As long as love is sure
On the street of dreams
Or walked the street of sorrow on the boulevard of broken dreams?
I walk along the street of sorrow -
The boulevard of broken dreams -
Where Gigolo and Gigolette -
Can take a kiss without regret -
and so forget their broken dreams.
You laugh today and cry tomorrow -
When you behold your shattered schemes -
And Gigolo and Gigolette wake up to find
their eyes are wet with tears that tell of
broken dreams.
Here is where you'll always find
me -
Always walking up and down -
But I left my soul behind me
in an old cathedral town "
The joy that you find here, you borrow -
You cannot keep it long it seems -
But Gigolo and Gigolette -
Still sing a song and dance along -
The boulevard of broken dreams.
They are both flip sides of the same coin, where Gigolo and Gigolette can take a kiss without regret and so forget their broken dreams. Gigolo and Gigolette can always be found in those, not so "melancholy" jazz clubs where they are destined to meet and once again to walk the street of dreams, a street that leads to the boulevard of sorrow.
Enjoy the music.
|
The trouble with trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed.
C.S. Lewis |
O-10:
*****Rok, I'm hoping the CD will offer something I didn't hear on the computer, but before I get the CD, I must say; they have too much of a "popular" sound for me. Just from reading the song titles, and personnel, I'm saying to myself "It's got to be good", but in my old age, I'm very hard to please because "good" is no longer good enough.******
The computer/youtube does not do the bey's justice. The tune list is sort of misleading, in the sense that you have never heard them done this way. Unique arrangements and fantastic harmony. The can really sing. Besides Kenny Burrell, Milt Hinton, Jo Jones and others, are on board, and provide great Jazz credentials.
If you don't love it, I will refund your money. I am older than you, and I listen to it everyday.
Got a new Cd player today. Can't wait to hear it on the new Marantz. Damn, I'm beginning to sound like an Audiophile!:( Help me Jesus!!
Cheers. |
****Miles went to Juilliard*** His first mistake. I knew there was something wrong there.****
Hmmmm, so did Wynton. |
Acman, that CS Lewis quote is fantastic! Do you happen to know where that is from exactly?
Rok, Frogman as usual answered your questions very well. The only thing I would add about differences between different orchestras is that obviously budget size/season length comes into it, which of course has a tremendous effect on the quality of musician that would audition when there are openings. The Berlin Philharmonic and the Austin Symphony are in no way comparable in this sense, they are very different animals indeed. The Berlin Philharmonic is a very well paying full time job (and in this case by full time I mean a 52 week orchestra). The Austin Symphony is a part time orchestra - many of the players in it are the professors at UT Austin and their students. I would have to look up how many weeks the season is, but I doubt they play more than 8 or 10 concert sets in a season - what we call a "gig" orchestra. Perhaps they are one step up from that, but no one is making their living solely as a member of the Austin Symphony. They would be supplementing it with another job. This type of orchestra does not attract anywhere near the best musicians, in fact there wouldn't be very many people show up from outside the central Texas area for one of their auditions - it simply doesn't pay enough for anyone to justify moving to Austin to be in it. Central Texas, by the way, does not even have much of a free-lance classical music scene - this is the main reason why the Austin Symphony relies so much on the University of Texas. |
Acman, I believe that was the most appropriate response to a post that I've ever read.
|
Rok, Marantz gives the biggest bang for the buck in CD players. I have the SA 8260, it's old now. I'm curious, what model? The new ones are computer compatible, which actually saves you money because you don't have to by a DAC for computer digital out. I'm sure you'll hear new music from your old CD's.
Enjoy the music.
|
Learsfool:
HOOK'EM HORNS!!
Cheers |
****Hmmmm, so did Wynton.*****
Wynton also plays Classical music. He probably went to Juilliard to keep up on his nut&bolts. Or he could have been getting his "ticket punched" for the gig at Lincoln Center. Since NYC is completely under the control of N&Bism.
Cheers |
"Southern Comfort" and the "new" Regina Carter were a surprise from jump street. The first cut "Miners Child" caught my attention; she gets into Appalachian music like I've never heard it before, her violin became a southern country fiddle.
Somehow this music brought back memories of riding on a "Trailways" bus, on a moonlit night gazing across wide expanses of nothing except for an occasional farm house silhouetted by the moonlight. Unless you have traveled the south on two lane black top roads by "Trailways" bus, you ain't seen the south. Her music brought back those memories, it was also reminiscent of Ry Cooders music that paints southern landscapes.
This "new" Regina Carter was a very pleasant and welcome surprise that defied genre.
Enjoy the music.
|
Rok, I have read through this whole last week's posts on this thread and I still have no idea a) just exactly what you think you mean by "nuts and bolts" and b) why you apparently set no value on it. Frogman made a valiant attempt to explain, and I'm not sure I can add to his.
The thing that puzzles me the most is when you say you don't buy it that artists have great appreciation for others in their field who do things very differently from them. Frankly, your position and arguments make no sense. Why wouldn't Renee Fleming appreciate Ella Fitzgerald? Why wouldn't Wynton appreciate Miles? Why wouldn't Picasso appreciate Matisse? Why wouldn't Shakespeare appreciate Joyce? Or the other way around in any of these examples?? Great artists will always respect the craft of others (is this term more acceptable to you?), even if they dislike what is being created with that craft. You can substitute the violin examples earlier instead, but as a brass player it is more natural for me to bring up the trumpet ones - absolutely no one, even the people who hate him, would ever say that Wynton could not play, or disrespect his craft. He has this in spades, more than any other jazz trumpeter ever, and all the others greatly appreciate it, even if they don't care for the music he makes with it. Everyone who is any good at all has worked very hard at their craft, and appreciates others who have done the same. Same thing in the world of athletics. When two of the best are battling it out, whether it be individual or team sports, the opponents have to have the utmost respect for each other's game, even if they are very different styles, and they don't like each other's style, or don't like them personally, or whatever. |
Listened to today:
Horace Silver -- DOIN' THE THING -- AT THE VILLAGE GATE
Horace Silver -- JAZZ HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR
Charles Mingus -- OH YEAH
George F. Handel -- WATER MUSIC / FIREWORKS MUSIC
Both Silver CDs were great. His death really sadden me. Surprised me. This is from his liner notes of the 'Sense of Humor' CD. The players he talks about are the group on this CD. Kisor plays trumpet, and has a beautiful tone. They were all good.
"I haver often been concerned about the state of Jazz in the future since most of our older masters of the music have passed on. I don't feel I have to be concerned about that issue any longer since fine young musicians like Ryan Kisor,Jimmy Greene,John Webber, and Willie Jones III are on the scene.....there are many more young Jazz musicians who are capable of carrying the music forward and insuring that it stays alive and vibrant. Insuring that it remains pure and unadulterated. Insuring that the masters have not sacrificed and dedicated their lives to this music in vain. Long live jazz in it's pure and unadulterated form."
He then dedicated the album to Thomas 'Fats' Waller.
Any Comments?
Nice interview with mingus at the end of his CD. Talks about his early career. He played with everyone, including Armstrong. Was afraid to travel down south with Pops, so he quit the band. Disappoints me to know that. Talks about influences like Joe Turner and T-Bone Walker.
The Water Music is the one The Frogman recommended. The English Concert / Pinnock. As always, The Frogman was spot on! Thanks.
I may have submitted this one before. It's LvB's 9th. Played at the 2012 porms. I am sending it again just for the interview at the beginning with Barenboim. I don't remember it being part of the clip last time. He makes some interesting comments about the symphony.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vypj9NCINdM
Cheers |
Learsfool:
Nuts and Bolts is a term I use to reflect an attitude. And that is, that playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that along, can make a player great.
You and The Frogman have a habit that drives me nuts. You misquote me, and then shoot down the misquote!
I was speaking of great players being asked about, not so great, or unknown players. "What do you think of so & so?"
Answer: Oh man, he is a great player. I wish I had him in my band. He will be the best someday. etc......
They will never say anything negative about a player regardless of that player's skill or potential. Why?
I think it's just because they are all nice guys. And they were not born great, so they know what it's like to struggle.
I cannot imagine any musician, other than so-called Rock musicians, being anything other than nice human beings.
Cross-genre? You are correct. They all respect each other. The great ones. Beverly Sills once said that Ella Fitzgerald had the most perfect voice she had ever heard. She was not being nice. Just factual. And I am sure the feeling was mutual.
My comments were about the great, being asked about the not so great, and unknown. And Nuts and Bolts, as I use it, means, if anything, a school of thought. Sort of like saying, you can go to school and learn how to be a great Jazz player. You can't. If you could, I would be one. :)
Cheers |
Learsfool:
Berlin vs Austin. I just used an extreme example in my attempt to make sure The Frogman understood my question. I was trying to find out if the musical scores, for all Orchestras, regardless of rank, were the same. I was not trying to compare Austin to Berlin in any other manner.
Thanks for dissing Central Texas. I'll have you know that Austin is the Live Music Capitol of the World. Don't believe it? Ask them!
Cheers |
Learsfool, I am glad you chimed in about that. I was going to after first reading the comment about Juilliard, but frankly I was almost in a state of disbelief at the comment and all I could muster was my "retort" about Wynton having also attended Juilliard. I certainly agree with your comments.
This topic has come up before in this thread and I am mystified at the apparent insistence that somehow jazz players don't require or, at least benefit greatly from, the kind of study and dedication to music theory, instrumental rudiments, purposeful honing of rhythm via intense practice, and many other ingredients of good musicianship (the nuts and bolts) the way that classical players do; that somehow the authenticity of jazz is diminished if the player does that. Obviously, that is simply not true and points to a very sophomoric understanding of what making music is about. The great jazz players were relentless practicers and voracious students of all aspects of music. |
The Frogman / Learsfool:
Why not submit a list, for us aficionados, of GREAT Jazz players, who were great, BECAUSE, they went to Juilliard.
Cheers |
Rok, c'mon. We don't have a habit of misquoting you nor of shooting down anything. The truth is that when discussing these topics you are not a particularly good communicator via what you write. Example:
****Nuts and Bolts is a term I use to reflect an attitude. And that is, that playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that along, can make a player great.****
Huh! If you mean this then it would go counter to everything that you have said previously about the subject.
First of all, "nuts and bolts" is not an attitude. From the first time that I used that term I have been very clear about its intended meaning: study of the rudiments of musicianship and being an instrumentalist or vocalist; music theory, rhythm, the mechanics of playing an instrument (including one's voice) etc. ALL players, regardless of genre, have to do that in order to achieve greatness. So, for the sake of clarity and for a discussion to not to turn into an incoherent mess, we should stick to that meaning of the term.
****I cannot imagine any musician, other than so-called Rock musicians, being anything other than nice human beings.****
Don't you understand how ridiculous that comment is? Have you any idea how many great musicians there are in the jazz and the classical world who are assholes? And why are you denigrating all Rock musicians?
As I wrote that comment it became clear to me what the problem is in these discussions. We all have a right to our opinions; but, we don't have a right to present them as fact without being able to back them up. I have said this before, I admire your passion and your inquisitiveness (as of late); but, with due respect, when it comes to some of these topics, you don't know what you are talking about. If you did, you wouldn't have to ask some of the questions that you do.
BTW, what happened with that on-line music course you were considering? You should do it.
Cheers. |
****Why not submit a list, for us aficionados, of GREAT Jazz players, who were great, BECAUSE, they went to Juilliard.****
I am almost speechless. I have no idea how or why you arrived at the conclusion that anyone has ever suggested this. All I can think of in response is the scene in Shawshank Redemption where Andy goes to speak to the warden after having been given proof that he can use to show that he is innocent of the crime; after several attempts at trying to get the warden to consider what he is saying he says "How can you be so obtuse?"
:-)
Now, PLEASE try to explain to me WITH EXAMPLES/QUOTES what has been said so far to suggest that a jazz player can be great BECAUSE he attended Juilliard. You, on the other hand, started this whole Juilliard mess by very clearly suggesting that you "something was wrong" with Miles because he did attend Juilliard; and absurd comment; perhaps you were joking. Please clarify. |
***you are not a particularly good communicator via what you write. Example:****
Wrong answer! I am an excellent communicator. The problem is, you have this habit of reading what you wish I had said, rather than what I actually said.
****Nuts and Bolts is a term I use to reflect an attitude. And that is, that playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that along, can make a player great.****
***Huh! If you mean this then it would go counter to everything that you have said previously about the subject.***
Allow me to say Huh!!! I am telling you that when I use the term N&B, I am referring to an attitude YOU have. YOU, not me. So how does the statement run counter to anything I have said? After all, it's you that champions all these school trained noise makers, not me. |
****Don't you understand how ridiculous that comment is? Have you any idea how many great musicians there are in the jazz and the classical world who are assholes? And why are you denigrating all Rock musicians?****
OK class, lets read every word very carefully.
I said, "I can't imagine". That is different from saying "Every musician is in fact". I don't know all these people, and neither do you, so I am basing this or media I have seen, heard, or read about the artist. But please, do feel free to submit a list of Famous, Great, Jazz players, who are also Assholes.
I trash Rock 'musicians' because they destroyed Rock & Roll.
Cheers |
**** but, with due respect, when it comes to some of these topics, you don't know what you are talking about. If you did, you wouldn't have to ask some of the questions that you do. ****
I don't HAVE TO ask any questions. Asking questions, and the answers, do not make me enjoy my music more. Just curious.
I know exactly what I am talking about. I always respect your facts. Your opinion is actually not as important as mine. Because I am a member of the most important group in the entire music equation. The Consumer! You guys don't impress us, you don't eat. Just the facts.
Cheers |
****BTW, what happened with that on-line music course you were considering? You should do it. ****
I am still reading my book. Very interesting. But I have no interest in becoming a musician. I may be lacking in my N&B knowledge, but I know Jazz when I hear it!! :)
Cheers |
O-10:
I agree about Marantz. This is my third Marantz player currently in my rack. I just got the CD6005. It appears to be the SA8005, without the SACD function. Same DAC, and it has the USB input.
So far I am very pleased with it.
I also have the SA8001(sacd) and the CD5004.
Cheers |
O-10:
***Unless you have traveled the south on two lane black top roads by "Trailways" bus, you ain't seen the south. ***
Ain't that the truth! My mode was Greyhound. I remember going from Ft Campbell, KY to Ft Bragg, NC in the wee hours of the morning. You are spot on about the cabins in the middle of nowhere. Trees forever. I thought, how could someone live this isolated. In truth, they were probably having a bluegrass jam session as I rode by. :)
I will have to get the Southern Comfort. Have you ever heard of the of the group, 'Carolina Chocolate Drops'?
Cheers |
O-10:
BTW, your Marantz is probably the most beautiful of all their CD players.
Cheers |
***** by very clearly suggesting that you "something was wrong" with Miles because he did attend Juilliard; and absurd comment; perhaps you were joking. Please clarify.****
It was obviously said in Jest. You and Learsfool need to lighten up. Chill. Put on a little MJQ!
Cheers |
Not clear at all, Rok; especially given some of your other comments. Anyway, this is, once again, a case of "Mars and Venus"; some things are irreconcilable.
No one is trying to "impress". I nor Learsfool (I am confident in stating) need this forum to "impress"; actually practicing (no pun intended) what we preach is the best way to do that and we do it on a regular basis. What we try to do is offer well-intended insights into aspects of music and the music scene that are not readily available to everyone as a way for those open to the idea to expand their knowledge and appreciation. You seem intent on creating your own personal reality about what the music scene is and challenge whatever doesn't jibe with your reality. Anyway, no sweat. O-10 was correct in part with an earlier comment:
Chaqun a son gout!
Cheers |
No, I never heard of the "Carolina Chocolate Drops" until you mentioned them, but they make my kind of music. After going to "You tube" I got an obsession to go south and look for a "Country Girl". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVIaiADsyYoThey were walking along a road with a tall metal container that had two handles in the foreground, and it took me awhile to figure out what it was, "a churn", that's what they made butter with. Have you ever had churned butter on hot biscuits? That's going back to a time when they didn't even have electricity where we went, Winona Mississippi. All I remember is a big lone house in the middle of nowhere on a dirt road; but that's the old south "dirt roads", they didn't know what concrete was. I find it amazing that the south has changed so much, that a lot of people are finding country living preferable to the city; I can understand that. Enjoy the music. |
****No one is trying to "impress". I nor Learsfool (I am confident in stating) need this forum to "impress";*****
No one could get my comments on artist vs consumer wrong, unless one did it on purpose. Lets move on. I concede all points to you.
Cheers |
O-10:
Winona, Mississippi: I have been thru there a million times. Mostly on my way to Huntsville, Alabama, when I was in the Army. I think US 82 crosses I-55 there. I also have to go thru there to visit Kin folks in West Point and Tupelo.
The clip, 'Country Girl', I have on my CD of the Chocolate drops. I have their CD "Leaving Eden". It's pretty good. I leave it out on my desk so I can play it often.
Never had churned butter, but many biscuits. Have primed a few pumps and gathered firewood in my time. No greater place to be a child. What's better than running in the dirt barefooted?
Did you realize that there were no fat people then?
Cheers |
Rok, I thought long and hard, no I don't remember any fat people, even as much as they ate then; while food was the biggest thing in life in the country, there was always a lot of work to be done. Our existence is so much easier now, even if it is much more complex. Yes, I recall walking barefooted down dirt roads, and how good that soft dirt felt under bare feet. I also recall some of the most beautiful fragrances wafting by, they smelled better than any cologne or perfume. Where they came from I don't know, whether they came from wild flowers, bushes, trees or whatever, these different beautiful fragrances wafted by quite regularly in the country. Sorry, I don't remember any music in Winona, but I do remember the music from that time, and here is some of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMR3OnbmWkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xovmaG9S0sQAlthough Dorothy Dandrige is more colorful, I think this one by Ella Mae Morse was the one we heard on the radio. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ortOAiClE34Enjoy the music. |
O-10:
I have this one and I think you might like it also.
Folkways: A vision shared. A Tribute to Woody Guthrie and Leadbelly.
Awesome performances by all. From Bruce Springsteen to Sweet Honey in the Rock.
One of my favorites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZtIq8I6hlo
Cheers |
Hi guys - just caught up to all the posts today. Rok, I guess you now want to move on, but before we do, I honestly, along with Frogman, am even more confused about what you think you are talking about with your "nuts and bolts" comment. I grant you the use of your term as you want to use it - that's not the issue - the issue is it is not at all clear. I know of no musician who would say "playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that alone, can make a player great." This is absurd on the face of it, no musician would ever say that. What we do not understand is that you really do seem to think that many do?? Could you give us a specific example?? I am not trying to attack your position, I am honestly trying to understand it, as it seems to make no sense.
Far be it from me to diss Central Texas, by the way. I am very familiar with it, having grown up there. I was merely describing the classical music scene as compared to the country/alternative rock scene down there. |
Learsfool:
*****I grant you the use of your term as you want to use it - that's not the issue *****
Thank you. That's an important point.
**** I know of no musician who would say "playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that alone, can make a player great." This is absurd on the face of it, no musician would ever say that.*****
Aboslutely true!! I agree with you. Well, one might. :)
***** What we do not understand is that you really do seem to think that many do?? ******
AHA!! now we get to the core of the problem. This is an example of The Frogman's Jedi Mind Tricks. He makes a statement, finds it cannot be defended, and now, all at once it's MY statement. I do not think this!! I use N&Bs to sum up what I feel THE FROGMAN thinks.
He said as much when we talked about the clip with some trumpet player and Phil Woods. I can't quote him, but I came away with the idea that he thought the trumpet solo to be the 'perfect' bebop solo. I thought it was noise.
This is the clip where I pointed out the obvious, that Woods is Fat.
So Learsfool, you are preaching to the Choir. You need to ask The Frogman to clarify / explain Nuts and Bolts. It's his term. Once he does that, we can start all over again. Perhaps, I will then have to rename "nuts and Bolts" Jazz.
In the mean time, lets remember Ellington's " It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that certain something" :)
Cheers |
O-10:
The Nicholas Brothers, WOW. How do they do that?? Amazing! The best dancers EVER!!!
I fell in love with Miss Dandrige after seeing the movie CARMEN JONES. If my thought dreams could have been seen, my mom would have washed my mind out with lye soap. What a beauty she was. Went to sleep a many a night, with her on my mind.
Thanks for the clips.
Cheers |
