Jazz for aficionados

Not me OP.

Cheers

I bought this album when it came out in 72, but I have a different album cover. He has his legs crossed wearing boots similar to boots that I bought on Peach Tree Street in Atlanta; unforgettable for me.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1xYt0oIFtI

I have been buying his albums every since.

O-10,

That entire album is Boss.   He was in and out of Jazz and R&B, and I mean while playing the same tune.   I think it's great stuff.

I have a lot more of him on LP than CD.   But I do have Mister Magic.   I need to get Winelight and this one.

Nice clip

Cheers

Frogman , a bit of Barber , think this is the band and artist for it with whats
on you tube . Slovenian is not in the spotlight but I like them .Nice clean orchestra with good conductor that serves the music . Barber's  winds and brass show what a great instrumentalist he really was. Melody is a given from God .This orchestra keeps tempo better than many more famous ones do .


https://youtu.be/CveX2LjVaw0?t=6

Tis the season to be jolly, and I’m going to do my best. Christmas music and decorations lets everyone know what time of year it is. I always revert back to my childhood to really feel the Christmas spirit; that’s when my first stop was to see the electric trains traveling around the huge display cases in the big department stores.

I have very little jazz Christmas music because I always get out voted as to what the family listens to, and Christmas is also a family time of year. But I can still go to my listening room and play what little I have.

Kenny Burrell, "Have Yourself A Merry Christmas";


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzarjwkPPPs&list=PLA3ZS_eXWM-qmbfOBbjIqXuRGZO1dN_S0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7PfDn0KhtI&list=PLA3ZS_eXWM-qmbfOBbjIqXuRGZO1dN_S0&index=3


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LOa05d5vQo&list=PLA3ZS_eXWM-
qmbfOBbjIqXuRGZO1dN_S0&index=5



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lQGe7H0dW4&list=PLA3ZS_eXWM-qmbfOBbjIqXuRGZO1dN_S0&index=7

0-10 , I usually don't care for that kind of  music, but Burrell brought home
the bacon on this one . Very good arrangement  !

Thanks for that, Schubert. Beautiful playing all around on one of my favorite Barber works. Excellent! Gorgeous tone from Meyers. Right back at you with another favorite Barber:

https://youtu.be/zCf7ClLwB7A

As I’m sure you know this is generally considered to be (for whatever that is worth) “the” recording of the concerto. Interesting contrast to the Meyers/Slovenia live performance.  Much more that could be said about that contrast than is probably appropriate on a Jazz thread; but, in short, an arguably more “American” interpretation:

https://youtu.be/_zHSyDP34IM

Well , op.31 is beyond words and from Berlin.Ain’t no bad music in that town !
Stern is beyond words as well . Just different words .


I chose Meyers because IMO her wonderful "del Gesu" was right horse for that course . Also nobody who studied with the great Joseph Gringold at Indiana is ever boring . I strongly considered moving to Bloomington before here , if it had a good hospital I would have . I like nothing more than to hear young artists in the recitals and Indiana is ground zero for that ..A national treasure for music

Betty Carter:

Her version of "Favorite Things" is now one of my favorite things.  I liked all three songs.   You have to 'listen' to her music.   I would imagine it's not easy to play in the group backing her.

I was thinking that if Paulette Dozier had not done so many Standards / Popular Jazz tunes, she would have come across better.   When you hear 'moonlight' you think of all the greats that have done that tune, and then you compare her to them.

I have quite a few CDs by Carter.  I'll bring them out now.   DeJohnette, Holland and Allen are not my favorite folks, but that was very good.

Cheers

I must be the only person in the country that did not hear her on the Cosby show.

acman3,

That second link with Betty Carter backed by Geri Allen, Dave Holland and Jack DeJohnette was a real treat. I will be adding that album to my collection for sure.

Here is one of my favorite "young" jazz musicians and vocalists Esperanza Spalding. I saw her at the Apollo Theater NYC in 2013 and she was terrific selling out the place as well. I wish she would record more traditional sounding jazz albums as she has veered into other genres her last couple of releases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQtXo4tiZxs&list=RD4PIdFIGQRxk&index=5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aRC3YY3svs

Pjw, you won’t be disappointed with that Betty Carter record.  Highly recommended!  I posted a few from it a while back. Rok, check out Allen, Holland and DeJohnette on this:

https://youtu.be/qgdn9DIdLkE

acman3,

I found that Betty Carter album "Feed The Fire" on Amazon and ordered it. Here is a review from Amazon:

Lionel Hampton nicknamed her "Betty Bebop" way back when--and the soul of bebop was alive and kickin' in Betty Carter when this 1993 live set was recorded at London's Royal Festival Hall. It's a kind of dream date, with Carter accompanied by pianist Gerri Allen, bassist Dave Holland, and drummer Jack DeJohnnette. So what I want to say is: "Wow." I guess that's not a very articulate critical observation, but as Carter (a sizzling scat singer) knows, sometimes words just aren't enough to say what needs to be expressed. Some jazz singers (like Billie Holiday or Shirley Horn) don't stray too far from the melody in their improvisations, but Carter takes off and flies like the great bebop sax/horn players. The arrangements on these 10 songs sometimes deliberately downplay the melodies--like a mysteriously beautiful "Lover Man" that Billie Holiday would never recognize. Slowed almost to a standstill and built around a piano figure that echoes Herbie Hancock's "Maiden Voyage," the words are familiar, but the tune is almost undetectable. Carter's up to something else altogether, and makes spine- tingling music. --Jim Emerson

I ordered a Betty Carter compilation album titled "Betty Carters Finest Hour" On the album cover it says all you need to know about Betty's unique vocal style:

"She forever transformed the singers role in small jazz ensembles to that of a fully participating improvising member"

Here is one of the songs on the disc, a duet with Carmen McRae:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF6ihKz4NbA

Pjw, without a doubt I'm going to buy discs by "Shelly Manne And His Men", but specifically with the cuts I'm looking for.

Kenny Burrell:

I have that CD.   Probably the last Jazz 'Christmas' music I have bought, or will buy.   No matter how good the playing, it just does not get me in the Christmas mood.   I have Jazz Christmas CDs by Wynton, Oscar and Burrell.   But I seldom play them at Christmas.

There are always exceptions:   (DVD)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XIjGei8zG8 
   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5j5XjbhuTo 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbIAEKQ7GmY&list=RDZbIAEKQ7GmY&start_radio=1 

Cheers

*****  check out Allen, Holland and DeJohnette on this:*****

That appears to be a good album.   I must confess, I have not heard these guys much, or at all,  since my LP days, except for Geri Allen.

I have "Droppin' Things".   Geri Allen appears on that one also.   I will post it later.

Cheers

Pjw, before I went to LA , I acquired friends in the Air Force from LA, and we listened to this music fresh off the press; now all those memories are coming back. We named one of the guys in our squad "Squatty Roo"; I can see him now.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYeN-m4OB5A


I'm going to spend the rest of the day sifting through West Coast jazz.

Today's Listen:

Gene Harris Quartet  --  BLACK AND BLUE

The more I hear him, the better he gets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jYSjqYABHg  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5UkBJWMVz4 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1UZTOHzFAA 

Cheers

Rok, you're not fooling me, you're just in love with Kathleen Battle.


I know what you mean about Christmas music, that's why I don't object to the "classic, standard Christmas music" that can always be heard at our house. I want to always remember when I believed in Santa Claus, and wanted a sled for Christmas.

*****  you're not fooling me, you're just in love with Kathleen Battle.***

Curses!!!!   Exposed again!!

Cheers

frogman , here’s what I’m talking about , a perfect mid between Gil and Akiko at 16.
And God lets me hear it , tears and all .
For awhile all is good on Planet Earth .

https://youtu.be/dXh_dCWfpOk

"Betty Bebop", what an appropriate name, I like her best when she's doing her "bebop" thing, instead of the standards.

A must have for the quality of the singing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z62Ju7ADThY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQjr4wtozLA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxVgUulaSGE

Cheers

To my eternal shame I had forgotten the superb  Robert Shaw Chamber Singers .  Perfect diction and all .

Thanks .

This is "eternal" Christmas music along with the Christmas Cards, let it snow, let it snow.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ibhWgMlso&list=PLk7MlpewRSRnzt6NrygRlgJn6S9U34wOp

Pretty good for something that doesn't mention the birth of Jesus .

orpheus10,

I have that Shelly Manne album with the song you posted. It is one of about 20 Shelly Manne discs I have with him as the leader.

Shelly Manne, Lee Konitz, Gerry Mulligan, Chet Baker, Bob Brookmeyer, Lenny Tristano and Zoot Simms among others, were the original artists who did not follow along with everyone else into bebop - that is, I mean players that recorded mostly bop whereas the players I mentioned above, who were highly influenced by Lester Youngs smooth sounding tenor which, believe it or not, had a huge influence on the "West Coast Cool" sound, stuck to a more subdued "swing sound" instead of bebop. 

Miles Davis used some of the players I mentioned above in his nonet for his "Birth Of The Cool" album. Lee Konitz was personally chosen by Miles over Sonny Stitt because of his ability to pay more subdued.

BTW, Gerry Mulligan was a very talented composer/arranger and that part of his legacy is often overlooked.

The complete recordings of Chet Baker and Gerry Mulligan is another place to look to bolster your west coast collection.

Pjw, West Coast is not quite in the normal lineage of modern jazz, it was developed in LA utilizing elements of modern jazz. The music developed around the California culture, which was cool and laid back.

For me, it is an alternative that requires a different "mind set". Just before you posted I was writing a post for Rok to get his evaluation of "West Coast". Now that this is included, we'll see what he has to say.

For me personally, I'm doing some serious shopping. My opinion is not to compare it to "East Coast", but to enjoy it for what it is. Rather than compare a Kiwi fruit to an apple, just enjoy whatever it is you're eating at the time.

Now that we have "You tube" I can be very selective.

Here's another one Pjw, even on "you tube" this sounds so much better. I'm going to pass on the 4 discs and just get the individual albums.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WxpHeuBo2s

O-10,
We should all be wary of fabricated genres.   Esp in Jazz and Blues.

Some people found they could give the locals what they wanted to hear and make a lot of money doing it.  That's the American way.  Even Miles did it. 

But, the creative heart and soul of Jazz remains NYC.   The rest are just, as our OP might say, "earning a Living".

Which begs the question, what the heck was Gene Harris doing in Idaho??

Cheers

Rok, "West Coast" came and went; what we are discussing is in the past.  When I go back to that time,  (in my mental time machine) I can relate to it.

orpheus10,

So you are sticking to just vinyl LP’s if I am understanding you correctly. Just about all digital music is compressed. The amount of compression can vary depending on the engineer/mixer. Most of the time, if the engineer is a good one, it does not affect the finished product.

I suggest you google compression in audio. Most of the articles will say the difference in sound is negligible unless it was just a crappy engineer doing the final mix. It also depends on what genre of music is being mixed in the recording.

Does your collection consist of only analog LP’s? Do you have any compact discs?

Getting back to the Shelly Manne live at the Blackhawk:
Individual CD’s of all 5 volumes will cost you 5x the cost of the boxset if they are even available. And the individual discs may also be compressed. The ONLY WAY to go in your case would be vinyl so you could be sure of no compression.

So basically you turned down a chance to get the whole shebang on 4 discs for free and listen to them and decide for yourself. or waiting a long time and spending way more on individual LP’s. I can’t see how getting something free is a "critical choice"


I am not a vinyl guy and have a 5k system with Sennheiser 650 headphones for "critical listening" through a DAC. I have close to 1000,00 compact discs and have only made a "frisbee" out of about 20 or so because of "compression/recording/mixing issues. When I say it is not compressed what I really mean is its not compressed enough for the human ears to make a clear distinction. This has all been done with systems way more expensive then mine with blind testing of "audiophiles".

RE Audiophile: A person or persons that spend 10k for speaker cables and RCA interconnects and swear they can hear a difference. LOL

O-10,  
I think the facts of today are the same as they were back then.  Different audience, with money,  meant different music.   Primarily a post war thingy.   But, even back then, NYC was the creative home of Jazz, even though players traveled around the country / world playing.   So, who played this west coast stuff, and why?   That is the question.   I never related to it.   Too smooth, no grit / bite.

Cheers

Booming (diverse) population and economy, Hollywood in it's prime, 
California being considered the cutting edge of America, all played a part.   A counter weight to NYC?

Here is a great example of East Coast meets West Coast:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEDLZmM_C_Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ2qAbtZKo0

Every player on that album is considered a West Coast Jazz Disciple except Stan Getz who, although he lived in Cali for a time was a New Yorker through and through and he injects some bebop into a lot of his solo's on the session.

Pjw, if you go back and forth between what you posted on page 386 (poinciana) and what I posted on page 387 "I could have danced all night"; you can hear the difference, one is clearer with more dynamic range than the other.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLbXPwPKfK4


Notice how clear the trumpet is on that live cut above, good CD shouldn't be any difference.

81563 , What you say is right about vinyl .
Only problem is one’s brain didn’t study engineering and has a mind of its own .
I lived next door to a Retired Navy Admiral who was in charge of Navy
recruiting .I asked him why the great engineering schools were the prime place they scouted for pilots .

Answer( he had a few) was. Engineers are intelligent and are easily trained. .They could see them selves as pilots and lacked the imagination to see their self crashing into the back of a carrier on night ops .
English majors are other way around .

orpheus10,

With all due respect I did not upload those songs onto You Tube.

YouTube uploads vary and I believe the content cannot be more then 320 kbps which is compressed. You cannot use You Tube to compare the sonics of a song since the source (an MP3 "lossy file") can vary from 128 kbps (ok) to 190 kbps (ok) to 320 kbps. I would say that most of the uploads on You Tube are in the lower kilobits per second - kbps.

First in the chain of listening is the source. In this case a compact disc. If the engineer overly compresses the dynamic range will suffer.

Secondly you must rip you compact disc onto a pc to upload it onto You Tube. If you rip your CD’s in MP3 codec as most people do the sound quality suffers.

I have ripped to my laptop my whole CD collection in FLAC codec in which has a very high bit rate so the music is identical to the source with no problems in the dynamic range. I cannot upload any songs from my library to You Tube unless I convert them down to an MP3 file which is inferior by far compared to FLAC - Free Lossless Audio Codec.

I can plug my laptop into my audio video receiver via HDMI and my system sounds great. For even better listening I plug my laptop into a headphone amp with a DAC - Digital to Analog Convertor and then out to my Sennheiser 650’s. I recently listened to one song off each disc of the Shelly Manne Blackhawk boxset through my headphone rig which is my "critical listening" choice and the dynamic range was fine. The quiets were quiet and the louds loud (this is what becomes "flat" when overly compressed).

"Since FLAC is a lossless format, it is suitable as an archive format for owners of CDs and other media who wish to preserve their audio collections. If the original media are lost, damaged, or worn out, a FLAC copy of the audio tracks ensures that an exact duplicate of the original data can be recovered at any time. An exact restoration from a lossy copy (e.g., MP3) of the same data is impossible".

From here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC

My offer still stands. Do as you wish but please do not use You Tube as a audio comparison.

BTW Orpheus did you like the 2 songs from Stan Getz’ album titled "West Coast Jazz"


Big Stan Getz fan here. Could make an argument he is one of the top 10 tenors of all time. The following was downloaded from a turntable with a USB connect into a laptop then uploaded to You Tube and you can hear its sonics are better then 90% of the stuff on You Tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P1EKY8p5pk

I am listening to "Sweet Rain" through my headphone gear as I write this and it sounds much better then the upload on You Tube above and that upload, as I said, is really good.

"Sweet Rain" is from the Stan Getz album of the same title "Sweet Rain" which features a very young Chick Corea on piano. Chick also composed a couple of songs on the session.

Pjw, let me answers your questions in order: I upgraded my analog so that it would be as good as my digital. Presently, I can almost flip a coin as to which is better. It goes back to the original input; which was better, the CD or the record?

No matter how good your rig is, it can not compensate for a compressed disc. Believe me, I can hear the difference, primarily because I’ve heard the same music sound better.

East Coast, West coast; they both sounded more like West Coast.

There are so many differences in uploads, that I listen to several before I choose one.

I use WAV, FLAC is a compressed lossless audio stream, WAV is uncompressed lossless audio stream. FLAC is like ZIP in audio world, you can compress/uncompress the data multiple times without any loss. But compression ratio is better than ZIP, because this compression format is tailored specifically for audio.

But if it’s compressed, it will also be compressed on "you tube", and I can tell the difference. Ultimately, I listen mostly to 2 track reel to reel at 7 1/2 speed, which is better than a vinyl record or CD.

Sweet Rain is very high quality and that's easy to hear. Compare it to that Black Hawk CD;


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mvuMvT4xac

"No matter how good your rig is, it can not compensate for a compressed disc"


That is what I already stated. I don't know if you skipped over that part of my post here it is again word for word:

************First in the chain of listening is the source. In this case a compact disc. If the engineer overly compresses the dynamic range will suffer.************

Reel to reel is an expensive proposition:

From an "audiophile" forum:

"I've been an audiophile for over 30 years and attended many related events and shows. The last couple of years at AXPONA I had the opportunity to hear some of these new reel to reel decks and the high quality tapes mentioned here and was completely floored by what I heard. The realism, tonality, and harmonic density of these playback sources was far beyond anything else I've ever experienced with either the best analog LP or digital sources. Personally I can't justify purchasing such a front end due to the limited amount of music available in the format as well as the high cost of the tapes themselves, but it is an experience I will never forget!"

Complete page here:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30923-the-sound-of-high-quality-reel-to-reel/











.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw_hee-7R_o

I am thinking what to write to make Texas man, little bit angry... :p ;--)

Ms Dozier reminds me of another quirky singer, Betty Carter .

Thank you acman for Betty Carter. She seems to be quite original with the way she expresses herself, for which I admire her.

Betty Carter:

Her version of "Favorite Things" is now one of my favorite things. I liked all three songs.  You have to 'listen' to her music.  I would imagine it's not easy to play in the group backing her.

Anyway, I wanted to say something similar to what many of you have already said. Daring lady she is for sure. Somebody commented under her Favourite Things clip: „she is kneading that popular song like it's pizza dough“

Still laughing here.

Ms. Carter sounded like no one in jazz, with her own diction, her own phrasing and her own sense of pitch. ~ source nytimes.com

''I started to change my material to keep the musicians interested,'' Ms. Carter said in a 1992 interview with The New York Times.

The point.

In other words, “cool”; as distinguished from the harder edged, grittier and generally more aggressive quality of Hard Bop which was and is more prevalent in the East Coast.

That's why it is "cool."