Jazz for aficionados
Pjw, you can hear the quality of the recording on "you tube". Beginning with Alex's posts; I'm commenting primarily on the quality of the recording. Naturally I liked Grants tune best, although Laurie and Choir had better recording quality. As long as it's not "compressed" the music is fine with me, I'm not an audio freak. I'm just pointing out the fact that audio quality can be heard on "you tube" |
Pjw, out of all my musical experiences, the one that sticks with me most, is hearing Grant Green play for Grant Green. That's the only time I ever heard any musician play for himself. His "Feeling The Spirit" album sounds the closest to that experience, but Grant never wanders far from his inner soul. |
orpheus10, Here is an excerpt from the first paragraph of your opening post of this thread: *********I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.************ You have posted 6,768 times since then so if all CD's are much to overly compressed for you to even consider buying them (this I gathered from your recent posts on "compressed" audio) why did your OP contain those 2 sentences? |
orpheus10, Grant Green is my favorite jazz guitarist. I wonder is that such a bad thing and if the "gods of jazz" and "official aficionado's" have condemned me while shouting WES MONTGOMERY!!! JOE PASS!!! DJANGO REINHARDT!!! I like speed and "chops" just as much as the next guy but, I like the "feeling" of Grants chords. Just my opinion. |
Speaking of Django, his son Babik was pretty darn good himself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ4naGDkNSY |
pryso, your point is well taken. However, my take is that anyone who likes and knows what Cool Jazz is would not be confused and anyone who likes Smooth Jazz deserves to be confused 😊....and probably wouldn’t like Cool Jazz anyway. Btw, Miles himself chose to call the album NOT “Birth Of West Coast Jazz”, but “Birth Of The Cool” instead. pjw, your Lou Donaldson story about Coltrane reminded me of this. I have posted or previously and I hope no one is offended for the obvious reason: https://youtu.be/1Zn-P0ZH3_M |
Well, this jazz album is so smooth, I find it very cool..... Personnel: Harry Edison (trumpet), Stan Getz (tenor sax), Gerry Mulligan (baritone sax), Oscar Peterson (piano), Herb Ellis (guitar), Ray Brown (bass), Louis Bellson (drums) https://youtu.be/iu8aqbfGmak https://youtu.be/S0sEOTOZmD0 https://youtu.be/1-Np8XUP6Lg Paul, I like Green very much, but if I had to choose favourite guitar player, I guess it would be Burrell. Op, regarding sound quality, it depends very much on the way it was uploaded to ytube. Of course that you can hear the difference, (on web) but that does not mean that actual recordings will sound that good (or bad) Often, the new recordirings are more compressed than the ones made long time before. I try to buy 'original' issues as well, but truth to be told, since all jazz is recorded long time ago, there is a limit to all that recordings. Usually, when some album is published on some other label than original, its not even remasterd, its just a copy of an old edition. You might just as well try that edition that Paul recommended, if its not good, you are safe, he promised to return you the money... The Shelly Manne set is published on OJC label, few times I bought albums that were just plain copies (recorded on cdrw disc) with poor stickers and cheap copy of artwork, so no guarantee there either. |
frogman, It is well known that Bill Cosby was a "wannabe jazz musician". As he became more and more wealthy from Hollywood he produced many jazz recordings. Lou Donaldson You don’t seem like a fan of him as I don’t recall you commenting on his ability as an artist whether good or bad. To me, no reply one way or the other, is a polite way of letting someone know its not your cup of tea. When Lou first came to NYC he immediately was hired by many small ensembles including the famous Birdland live recording with Art Blakey and Clifford Brown. This reflects on his talent as an altoist. He was recording in the studio as a leader a few years after his arrival in NYC. Many jazz aficionado’s are familiar with Donaldson’s penchant for the blues/gospel/funk style jazz he veered into in the 60’s with his albums titled "Blues Walk" "Here Tis" "Good Gracious" "Alligator Bogaloo" "Possum Head" and "Everything I Play Is Funky". But Lou cut his career out in the beginning first with bebop and then hard bop which he could play with the best of them. Lou does not have the title of NEA Jazz master for nothing. Do you recognize the cats in this photo with Lou: https://www.bing.com/search?q=nea+jazz+master&form=EDGSPH&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&msnew... From Lou’s album LD + 3 bebop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuagbw2TUFQ More bebop from "Lou Takes Off" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evDzBWnQcYY Lou with the Gene Ammons All Stars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXgjacSGTnc |
Here we have my favorite video with Lou's "Alligator Bogaloo" playing the background music complete with a call girl and a Hugh Heffner imitation. Corny, sleezy and sexy too!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLxbkAvIKGk |
**** You don’t seem like a fan of him as I don’t recall you commenting on his ability as an artist whether good or bad. To me, no reply one way or the other, is a polite way of letting someone know its not your cup of tea. **** pjw, I appreciate your passion, but be careful with your assumptions as you are mistaken with this one, as far as concerns me, anyway. I like Lou Donaldson very much. If you must know, besides simply making the choice to use one’s usually limited time to comment/post in a way that I (!) feel makes the most productive and hopefully interesting contribution to the thread, the reason that I sometimes don’t comment on an artist is that the artist has been discussed previously; sometimes, several times previously. I suspect that I am not the only one here that feels the same way. You are relatively new to the thread and are probably not aware of all the instances of this. In fact, if I am not mistaken, I was the first to post Sweet Lou here. Another great example of this is the recent commentary on Grant Green.... discussed many, many times; to the point of arguments, unfortunately. Now, please don’t misunderstand. I am, IN NO WAY, suggesting that that there is ANYTHING wrong with revisiting any one artist; even may times over. God knows, some of these great players deserve even more attention and commentary. Personally, however, I SOMETIMES attempt to comment in a way that is hopefully different. Let’s just say....in the spirit of Jazz 😎. Obviously, I don’t always succeed. Having said all that, of course SOMETIMES one chooses to as grandma would always say.....”if you don’t have anything positive to say, don’t say anything at all”. So, if you ever have want to know my feelings about an artist that I haven’t expressed an opinion on one way or another feel free to ask me directly and I would be glad to share my thoughts. Btw, can I assume you don’t like Paul Desmond? 😉 |
When I see a decorated Christmas tree, I know it's Christmas time, and we have one in our living room. Maybe if I gaze at it, I'll get the Christmas Spirit. Charley Brown Christmas is about kids at this time of year, and it reminds me of when my adult son was a little one, plus I like Vince Guaraldi. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fh133ZO1AE&list=PLEpZan9S2GOFesp-gJqsdD80a7zoaflHa |
This is a re - post because I had to alter it for a friend and the system wont let you edit after 30 minutes. alex, I enjoyed all 5 of your links and my favorite, of course, is Grant Green. I cannot even find the words to describe his rendition of that song. You can feel Grant’s feelings in every chord. From the same album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBTvy8As0cQ I have the 2 disc set "The Complete Quartets With Sonny Clark" Here is a couple from the compilation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBLUyT_ajbI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzpPuKEK3RM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKdeMa5NMmc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUOC02sTckI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuTVeNF3t6s alex I would have loved to meet Grant Green and even more become an acquaintance of his like our OP. I was fortunate enough to see Lou Donaldson at least a half dozen times and converse with him. Green played on a few of Lou’s studio recording sessions. Lou and I talked about Grant Green, Dr. Lonnie Smith, Big John Patton and Art Blakey to name a few. Most of our conversations centered on sports especially boxing. Lou is a big fan of boxing and baseball. I miss him as he has not been gigging for the last 3 years. He is 93 now. He told me he was at the Polo Grounds in NY when Bobby Thomson hit "The Shot Heard Round The World" Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiZuVXYa43E Maybe that was Lou who jumped up with that cigar in his mouth! just kidding but Lou was in attendance and I believe him. Lou, who was born in 1926, would have been a strapping young man of 25 years old at the time. Three years later he was the altoist in Art Blakey’s live 2 disc set "A Night At Birdland" along with Clifford Brown, Horace Silver and Curly Russell. Every time listen to this 2 disc set I think of Lou "Sweet Papa" Donaldson. I see you saw the photo of Mr. Lou and I on my Facebook page. He certainly is a character. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB4H54s6mEk |
When I was around German classical players who also , among themselves played jazz , this seemed to be their favorite . I suspect because it is difficult and these guys could play anything. https://youtu.be/c0Olxorz1fU I’m sure I know less than anyone on here, but just starting out , God put my hand on this recording of Sonny Stitt , who is still my # 1 jazz man and if I could only have one jazz recording this would would be it . P.S. I wish I good find more of Shadow Wilson . |
Today's listen: Gene Ammons -- BOSS TENOR Ray Barretto on Conga Notes: ..."his playing is a perfect (albeit weird) assimilation of two seemingly widely opposed ideas of playing the Tenor saxophone. Gene somehow manages to sound like he comes right out of both Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young, the two farthest poles in the business of playing the Tenor Saxophone"....LeRoi Jones I thought Jones was a writer / Poet. Everyone's a critic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vl4_f8Emtw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK85sqy8OLg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnAQylm5kqg Cheers |
frogman, From now on I wont assume anything I will just ask you. And, btw, I like Paul Desmond. I have 8 albums with him as a leader and of course many Dave Brubeck albums as well. Here are some I like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI7h6t3zUeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2cTgUK3MQY&list=PLQQLNys0yJ0sI-DMKnb0JAJ49VfNYnC_d https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDjTc8GzstQ&list=PLvxWibFr0wiJmG_PfoH_rWJrssctL7MOL |
Schubert, "Cherokee" is in the domain of the "heavy hitters" like Bird and Stitt. Many people thought that Stitt tried to copy Bird, but that's not true, they just developed similar styles independently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf9b86WWfjw |
Pjw, I have two out of three of the albums on vinyl by Desmond that you posted; Desmond Blue is my favorite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT5zGYaUN_Q |
***********Schubert, "Cherokee" is in the domain of the "heavy hitters" like Bird and Stitt.************ Don’t forget Art Pepper. I have the rare 9 disc box set "Live At The Village Vanguard" from Art’s "comeback" period in the 70’s. The 9 discs were recorded on 3 nights Friday through Sunday. Anyway Friday night opening residency first set closing song is Cherokee. Before playing Art spoke to the audience as follows word for word: "We are gonna close this set with our rendition of the tune in the bible of the jazz musician... if you cant play this don’t play.... Cherokee.... that’s jazz I mean if you cant play this and play the crap outa it don’t play the horn.... or the drums or anything...… break it 123.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFEyZf4Fw0s The intro to Cherokee I wrote word for word from Art during the Friday night show. I could not find the Friday night "Cherokee with intro" so I improvised. I listened to the intro on my pc until I got it all down the used the Saturday night rendition of Cherokee (all I could find on You Tube). Art Pepper, during his comeback was on methadone but in the book he and his wife Laurie wrote "Straight Life" Art discussed this 3 night residency and recording at the Village Vanguard. He was obsessed with getting everything just right and started snorting cocaine When they arrived in NY and he never went to sleep until the last set on Sunday was over. 4 days and nights straight with no sleep and he still played terrific on every set. His band for these shows was an all star line up with Elvin Jones on drums, George Cables on Piano and George Mraz on bass. |
Here is another great book on Art Pepper written by his wife Laurie after he died. Its titled "Why I Stuck With A Junkie Jazz Man" https://www.amazon.com/ART-Why-Stuck-Junkie-Jazzman/dp/1494297574/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400004... I have read it and its a great read if you like that sort of thing. Amazon blurb: Art Pepper told his sexy, sordid, and exciting true adventure stories to his lover, Laurie, who put them in a book. She quizzed him (and those who knew him) unrelentingly over seven years, editing and structuring a narrative to which she dedicated all her energy. Straight Life by Art and Laurie Pepper (Da Capo) was published in 1979. It was critical success and remains a classic of its kind, the subject of college literary and music studies. Laurie went on to marry Art and manage his resurgent career, touring the world with his band. “Why I Stuck with a Junkie Jazzman” was the headline some editor gave a newspaper interview Laurie did while the band was in Australia in 1981, and she’s now stolen that “that perfect title” for her memoir. ART: Why I Stuck with a Junkie Jazzman (APMCorp), describes her marriage to the deeply troubled, drug-addicted, madly gifted artist. “That marriage was the making of me,” says Laurie. “Some people go to grad school or join the Marines. I married a genius who valued and inspired me and challenged me to use MY gifts. We had a difficult, powerful partnership. I had to tell that story.” She says she also needs to set the record straight and clarify her role: “People think I was some kind of little wifey-saint who rescued him. And Art encouraged them in that. But he knew how truly crazy I could be. We rescued each other.” |
Even I know that about Art Pepper . With all that you can be assured the drugs were doing the playing . He was just obsessed period . Wasn’t there , don’t know him but my guess he was just a kid who thought you had to do drugs to be accepted in jazz circles .Which was the general view of the US population at that time As someone who has NEVER done any drugs but almost certainly seen more of what they can do, than anyone on here, I don’t judge Pepper. When I learned that that a prominent older leader paid the band off in weed I took the 6 -7 LP’s I had and threw them into the trash . Don’t miss them . |
O-10, my sons and I refer to my wife (their mother) as “No.1 elf”. She loves Christmas. The house gets decorated with (tasteful) Christmas decorations in and out every year, and I must say that in spite of my mildly intolerant bemusement at all the commotion I have grown to appreciate her efforts immensely. A truly wonderful time of year that doesn’t necessarily have to be colored by others’ commercialism or others’ cynicism about it all. Keep gazing at that tree if that is what it takes to get in the spirit. I will say, however, that from my very limited vantage point you have a great deal to help you get in the spirit. Most importantly, you beat cancer! Doesn’t get much more important and positive than that. Not as important, but certainly important to you, your Jazz thread is thriving. I wish you much Christmas cheer. The Stitt/Parker connection, or lack thereof, that you mention is one of my favorite stories in Jazz. I have commented on it a couple of times previously and the story goes that when Bird played a road gig in Stitt’s hometown, to their mutual amazement they found that their respective styles were remarkably similar. This, in spite of the fact that Stitt had never heard Bird play; not even on recordings. Fascinating. Much is correctly made of the issue of “influence” of players on one another as concerns the evolution of Jazz, but this goes to what I like to call the inevitability of evolution in Jazz. Many creative artists are always pushing the envelope and this evolution seems to take on a life of its own. Some artists are just like some listeners. Some resist the movement of the art toward something new and different and others embrace it and go with it. To a significant degree the music itself and where it is at any moment dictates where it goes next. Schubert, fabulous “Cherokee”. One of my favorite Stitt records. I completely understand your reaction to Shadow Wilson. Wonderful drummer. Here’s more Shadow, except on “Off Minor” and “Epistrophy” on which Art Blakey plays drums. Fascinating contrast between the two drumming styles. I know it is considered heresy to say anything remotely negative about Blakey, but this contrast is a great example of why, while I acknowledge his greatness and importance, he is not always my favorite drummer. Compared to Shadow, he sounds a little heavy handed. I prefer Shadow’s more lithe and lighter approach. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0q2VleZJVEk3Tmv67HXOebr_CzZwuARj Btw, methinks you are way too modest in you assessment of your ability to assess what’s what in Jazz. You are a very musically astute listener, IMO. |
Frogman, as you pointed out, I have so much to be thankful for; the fact that I'm alive and survived a time when I was prepared to see the other side would seem to make me ecstatic, but it doesn't. I'm a victim of too much knowledge, but I thank you for your well wishes. That "Monk" you submitted is among the best that I've heard, and I'm listening to it all. I have to be in a "Monk frame of mind" to really hear him, and today is that day; yes this is the best Monk I've heard, it must be a "Monk day". "You are a very musically astute listener, IMO." I consider that quite a compliment coming from a master musician, and I wish you and your family loads of "Holiday Cheer". |
acman3, Thanks for the Christian Jacob links. Great jazz! Listening to this now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_eujpDyGmQ |
acman 3 + Frogman ,thanks so much for the Shadow Wilson stuff . His light touch was a perfect contrast to Sonny’s power. pjw , I did a bad by no mention of Laurie Pepper . I have no doubt that if everyone had such true love and kept the " in sickness and in health" " vow the way they both did the world would be a much better place. . Families are the essence of humanity not the I must be this and that is pounded in your head today . Thanks frogman , I get that once in a while .I operate on what the greatest Christian Theologian , St . Augustine said . " Humility is having an accurate assessment of your self " In jazz I have not heard as much as the others here. A fact . And though I like jazz very much I don’t have the deep love of same others do . A fact . What I do have is what anyone who has been to several thousands of classical concerts and listened almost every day to Bach for almost every day for 50 years has. The ability to know , within my limits , any genre, to hear if a piece is good, bad or indifferent in about 30 seconds . Have to listen for all of it , often more than once, to find if it is Great . Anyone who has done this can do what I do, perhaps a little less , a little more . Since I did not create myself , the music, , the air I breathe and play anything but my stereo, etc , etc, etc , no credit whatsoever resides in me , a sinner, and knowing what I know does not make better than any other human being .I can ONLY express my gratitude to the one who did create me and let me listen to all I have , In your case , takes one to know one , but I am not in your class which is quite unique . A fact. I always remember what my Scottish grandmother told me when I was about 10 . "Never forget that every person you will ever meet knows how to do something better than you. " |
Here's a unique version of "The Man I Love"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bSU3cnOqNQ Ahmad Jamal is the artist I don't think gets enough attention. Not even Jesus got the respect he deserved at home where he was born, "Bethlehem"; Ahmad Jamal was taken for granted in his adopted home "Chicago"; maybe that's why his current home is "Marseille France" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmSJYD88wVw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYtjEsl73F0 |
Paul, here is interesting, on time affair, album with Desmond and Modern Jazz Quartet, live. If you dont have it... https://youtu.be/mnKQS3qZ1bs https://youtu.be/-brmiryqxxY https://youtu.be/hZsPb1478OM https://youtu.be/DQxKCA8xtCM |
I have a question for astute aficionados; which "Jazz Messengers" group is your favorite? The question is too hard for me, so I hope you don't mind if I don't answer; however, I will give you the answer to another question before I even ask it; I liked Miles best when he had Trane and Bill Evans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVnm66joQk |
Its hard to beat so many heavy weights at one place. Sometimes, usaually at very late hours I listen to this guy...pity he did not had a chance to record more.... Eddie Costa https://youtu.be/M-8mI5W-0Hk https://youtu.be/3rSbbCxija0 https://youtu.be/Qgl9YTLi5ao |
O-10, while I don’t feel entirely comfortable laying claim to the “astute” part of your question, I can offer an opinion. I think it would be difficult to make an argument against “Moanin’” being THE definitive Art Blakey Jazz Messengers recording. I think it is a pretty safe bet that if surveyed a majority would agree. Great band! Great record! And, I have a strong suspicion that you would agree 😉. Having said that, I think the band was even better when Wayne Shorter replaced Benny Golson. Not that there was anything amiss in Benny Golson’s playing; quite the contrary. Fantastic player and fantastic composer which is one of the main reasons that “Moanin’” was so great. After Golson, the band remained the same except for the tenor slot. Shorter was (is) a more modern improviser and, for me, a more interesting improviser. I think that made the band more interesting and more forward looking. With a couple of temporary changes theband would remain essentially the same for about half a dozen records with “Night In Tunisia” being a favorite. My two cents. |
O-10, that Paul Desmond, Desmond Blue is extraordinary. As intended, this album presents alto sax specialist Paul Desmond as never featured before, with the backing of a string orchestra. The record, filled with such beautiful jazz standards as "My Funny Valentine," "I've Got You Under My Skin," and "Body and Soul," is very rich in texture, yet subtle and mellow overall in mood. It's unyielding purpose: to soothe the souls of its listeners. ~source elusivedisc.com |
Ella Fitzgerald - Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fzZ4l2H5-w It’s hard to survive these days...love the lyrics |
o10, I don't consider the Messengers so much as a group, but more as Blakey's Jazz School. It may be that more top musicians came through that "school" than any other. So it is impossible for me to pick a single favorite. Interesting question though. mary_ jo, I failed to "ace" your quiz, only scored 90%. So hope that doesn't disqualify me as an aficionado. I should have known better about Jim Crow. |
I have to go backwards to listen all the songs you guys posted. Going backwards... “In my next life I want to live my life backwards. You start out dead and get that out of the way. Then you wake up in an old people's home feeling better every day. You get kicked out for being too healthy, go collect your pension, and then when you start work, you get a gold watch and a party on your first day. You work for 40 years until you're young enough to enjoy your retirement. You party, drink alcohol, and are generally promiscuous, then you are ready for high school. You then go to primary school, you become a kid, you play. You have no responsibilities, you become a baby until you are born. And then you spend your last 9 months floating in luxurious spa-like conditions with central heating and room service on tap, larger quarters every day and then Voila! You finish off as an orgasm!” ~ Woody A. |
mary_ jo, I failed to "ace" your quiz, only scored 90%. So hope that doesn’t disqualify me as an aficionado. I should have known better about Jim Crow.pryso, only 90% is excellent score. I was forced to cheat after step 5, because the machine said that I would be banned if I continue answering like I was... |
André Previn And His Pals - West Side Story [1960] (Full Album) My pals now too.. Grant Green - Joshua Fit De Battle of Jericho Master... The Battle of Jericho - Mormon Tabernacle Choir You just made me surf about the Mormons...this is excellent. Bill Cosby & his drumming gig with Sonny Stitt...fro, that was funny... |
Frogman, you help make my decision for today. I say that because it could change tomorrow, but today I'll go with the lineup that the thread begins with. "Along Came Betty" is very special to me; it seems I met a "Betty" who was both jazzy and gorgeous at the same time, an irresistible combination; plus that tune was on the jukebox where I met her. This was just before I graduated from high school. Benny Golson wrote that tune, consequently, Benny Golson is also special, hence that lineup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTzRHq_cH5E |
