Jazz for aficionados

Louis Armstrong -- LOUIS ARMSTRONG PLAYS W.C, HANDY, is so "authentic" I'm going to have to buy it; it takes me back in time to a place that I've never been.

Nowhere in the constitution does it say give the "People's money" to Wall Street.

As usual I skip a few days and you folks move on so quickly.

rok, the first couple of times I saw the cover for "Way Out West" I failed to look closely and didn't realize Rollins was wearing a suit in the photo.  Good catch on the empty holster.  Anyway, it reminded me of this, although I don't remember who first sang it, The Smothers Brothers?  -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wp513wdCHU

Many candidates for the label of most creative in jazz; Satch, Ellington, Davis, etc.  But for me creative means not only playing style but composing, and with both of those, finding different styles rather than always staying on the same path.  With that I add my vote for Mingus.

Regarding "Hair", I saw it in NYC in the late '60s.  Pryor to that I dropped out of college and joined the Navy in '63.  When I got out in '66 and returned to school the social changes were dramatic.  Early years it was very short hair, Madras shirts, and chinos.  Just 3 short years later it was long hair and beards, work shirts, jeans, and fatigue jackets.  Nam was a catalyst in so many ways.

And mary_jo, not necessarily connected with the theme -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhjOpm-KL-A

Last night I listened to my old "record" A New Perspective, it sure sounded good;


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg3CBBkSss4


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhDbUajSnPY

Reality is overrated. (for Mary Jo)

On reality. You might find few good lines.
https://books.google.hr/books?id=e5G7CwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

It has come to my attention that we have neglected one of the most creative drummers for sure; "Chico Hamilton". I dedicate the first cut to you, mary_jo;


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzkfYvB7D9c


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31KerQ_uWvo


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BJNxVf_iLM

Again Schubert, your wisdom is most profound, we are living in a society or system that is governed or controlled by corporations.

Even doctors take orders from the "corp" they work for if told to do so.

Schubert, I was selling real estate in 78 when Jimmy Carter was president; everything was going just fine, I was making money, people were buying houses ( 3 bedrooms, 2 car garage, 2 bath, plus entertainment room, in a nice subdivision) All of a sudden, the interest rate began going up, and it kept going up until no one could afford to buy any thing.

The Fed controlled the interest rate, and Paul Volker was the chairman. He raised the rate until everything stopped dead still, nothing moved. The economy got so bad that it resulted in one suicide that I know of. That’s why Jimmy Carter didn’t get re-elected.

Many candidates for the label of most creative in jazz; Satch, Ellington, Davis, etc.  But for me creative means not only playing style but composing, and with both of those, finding different styles rather than always staying on the same path.  With that I add my vote for Mingus.  

pryso, could not agree with you more.

Your two-headed Annie Ross was and still is, very advanced kid. ;--)

"I may have been only three but I was swingin'..."

Thank you.

Thank you O-10. For you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCZg2P5ea4s

If God ever made two people to make music better together than Toots and Shirley Horn , I ain’t heard them.

https://youtu.be/_sjMT50B23w?list=TLPQMDQxMjIwMTkLjA1xZ-V9WQ&t=2

I have this in on Toots Thielemans  "Yesterday and Today "  in the Out of the Blue , Netherlands  Label, Vinyl version .New in 180 .  Covers groves with the greats from  1946 to 2001 .  2 LP listen a wonderful relaxation after a hard day.CD has more cuts and is perhaps almost as good . Best 40$ I've spent in a long time .

Another match made in heaven .

https://youtu.be/mQiqwsXmlVs?t=2
Shirley comes in about 1:50 , till her last breath she remained a great artist .

Toots:

Almost as bad as Zoot.   Not good names for Bebop.

Cheers

If you're through with the rant, why don't you listen and make a comment on Chico Hamilton.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30lXxeCvr0I


There's another one before this one that you didn't comment on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5kkmpo9OPg

Chico Hamilton - Passin’ thru

Boss Clip. It makes you move with the rhythm, my test for any music. I am proud of myself because, when the guitar started playing I said. that sounds like Szabo, and it was!! (sticking chest out). Lloyd was the star, although flute is not my favorite Jazz instrument.

I always think of Dracula when I see Hamilton’s name. On one of his covers he wears a cape with red liner. Just like the man himself.

I don’t have any Chico on CD. I think I will.

Nice clip O-10. We expect nothing less from the OP.

Cheers

I have sympathy for your feeling , but in truth only Gods knows that .

Nomad:
Sort of ’soundscape-ish’ in my opinion. Nice playing, but did not move me.

Mysterious Maiden:

Much better. Reminded me of some of Quincy Jones’ type stuff.

Conquistadores:

The best. That’s the cover I was talking about. Not quite as I remembered it, but that’s it.  I have it on LP.  The percussion work was outstanding, then I see it’s Willie Bobo!! What else could it be. Szabo was great again. He does have his own sound.

Great Clips. I have a new found respect for Hamilton after all your posts.

Thanks

Cheers

schubert
I have sympathy for your feeling , but in truth only Gods knows that .

>>>>>Wow! So The Beach Boys were right, after all!

Rok, another reason you may not have a lot of Chico is because he was hardly ever "mainstream jazz", he was "off center"; that's what I liked about him, his music was a change of pace from the rest of my collection.

The records I have are not on "you tube", nor are they on CD, and I'm not going to recommend that you get into analog, it's quite expensive. Presently I'm out of commission because I require tubes that cost $600 a pair for my phono pre. Whenever I have enough to justify that expense, I can listen to records again, but since I have them on computer hard-drive, I'm not suffering.

So much for Chico, enjoy what you can find on CD.

         

***** I'm not going to recommend that you get into analog, it's quite expensive.*****

We all remember where we were when big events happened.   I remember where I heard a CD player for the first time.   The PX, in Furth, Germany.   A Sony rep was demonstrating their player.

I remember saying, thank you Jesus, I lived to see this.  But, I have noticed the ridiculous price increases in all things analog.   

$600 for tubes??   No thanks.   When I worked for IBM in Atlanta, they gave us classes in tube theory.   The instructors, from Georgia Tech, thought it was a waste of time to teach this outdated tech.   Three things from the classes still stick,  1. tubes have very high distortion, 2. tubes start wearing out as soon as you turn them on and 3  they generate heat.

You can get a Marantz CD 6006 for 500.

Cheers

**** Notes:
The Handy innovation which had the most impact on popular music was the introduction of the Negro folk singer’s frequent use of the flatten third (and, though less often, the flatted seventh). Identified by by Jazz fans and commercial songwriters alike as"blue notes" .
Frogman, HELP!!!!! ****

Be careful what you ask for 😊

There are seven notes in the most common scale in music, the Major scale. For the sake of this explanation let’s look at the C Major scale which would be played on only the white keys on a keyboard. In the key of C Major the scale would start on a C and would be: C, D, E, F, G, A, B. Each ascending note of the scale corresponds to a specific frequency in Hertz with a corresponding acoustical wavelength. In a Major scale there are two notes that are referred to as leading tones; they are the third (E) and seventh (B) notes of the scale. The reason that they are referred to as leading tones is that the difference in Hertz, or distance, between each of them (the third and the seventh) and the following note in the ascending scale is much smaller than the difference between any other two notes in the scale. In the context of music this proximity to the following note of the scale creates the FEELING of the third and seventh of the scale wanting to move (resolve) to the following note of the scale. The third (E) of the Major scale wants to move to the fourth (F) and the seventh (B) wants to move to the “octave”, which would be another C. This C would have a frequency in Hertz that is ROUGHLY twice that of the lower C that the scale started on. Keep in mind that all this is a simplification.

In the Blues, what gives the music its distinctive “bluesy” sound is that the third (E) and seventh (B) notes of the scale are played a half step lower than in a Major scale. When playing the Blues, instead of playing the white keys corresponding to the third and seventh notes of the scale, you would play the black key just behind the white key corresponding to the third and seventh of the scale. You are then playing a third and seventh that are lower in pitch by ROUGHLY half the frequency in Hertz than they are in a Major scale; they then become a “flatted” third or seventh. Also referred to as “blue notes”.

Now, where the quoted liner notes go wrong, or at least are misleading, is that while it may be true that Handy “introduced” this technique to popular music (published music, as Rok points out) it was hardly an “innovation”.

While I have some ideas as to why, I don’t understand the resistance (political/personal?) on the part of some to the well documented wealth of musicological evidence that the folk music traditions of any people travel with them when they go, willingly or not, to a different land.

Just one example of many available. If you can’t hear the connection to Blues as we know it in this music which goes back centuries before the creation of American Blues, I recommend Q-Tips moistened in peroxide ☺️

Flatted thirds and sevenths:

https://youtu.be/VzqDq2R7KT0

Frogman, the blues and modern jazz are not one and the same if you are implying that African connection thing. Modern jazz has 0 connection to Africa. The Blues connection could very well be coincident.

Rok, as you already know, there's nothing new about "Analog"; it's just "high end" analog they're referring to, and somehow all analog is supposed to sounds like that, when we know that "low end" analog's not as good as that Marantz CD player.

Glad you mentioned that CD player, mine has gotten quirky.

Nope, it is all connected, O-10.  No coincidence; it’s all a continuum. With respect, you are mistaken about this.

Regarding Hamilton, his only album I have is "Passin' Thru" so I'm not an expert.  But much of what I've heard verges on what Gunther Schuller labeled Third Stream Jazz.

Check out two segments here, a brief one of rehearsal at 13:00 and a performance at 50:30.  Of course I recommend the whole film for several wonderful performances -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCUk8kZ2FiU

Glad you posted that Pryso, I wanted to see it again, thanks.

Just another instance of Gunther talking smack; Chico is far too creative to be put in some mundane category.

The Frogman, 
Outstanding Explanation of the Flatten notes.   You should be Teaching music.   Except for the Blues of course. :)
Excellent!!!   Thanks.

Cheers

I have a 6006 and a Croft Micro pre with all hard wiring and tube rectifer, 7 tubes with 2 for
built in phono . With a Rein (German ) DAC for 6006 .All in all about 5K .
The difference between the Croft Alone on records
and running though the 6006 same piece on CD is about two orders of magnitude

And both are running through Holy Grail 5751 Valvo’s from the Amperex factory in Hamburg .
Tubes are better for this reason , they come back far faster from overload than a solid state , which your hear as a coherent sweet natural sound with far less listening fatigue . And there is always micro overload .
I have a more tech paper some where but I don’t have the energy to go find it .
Or correct my spelling .

Today’s Listen:

Wes Montgomery -- FULL HOUSE
with Johnny Griffin, Wynton Kelly, Paul Chamber, Jimmy Cobb

The Miles Davis Rhythm Section.

Tsubo is a very tiny coffeehouse in Berkeley. I don’t think too much coffee drinking went on there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krWZIyNvvXc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQBhNXa-bMI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFkQ0By8N1g

Cheers

I don't envy the 'golden ears' at all.   if I could hear all the differences between components that they hear, I would constantly be buying and selling.  Would never have time for music.

I have three different and separate systems in my rack.   I play each one a week at a time thru the same speakers.   Thankfully they all sound the same to my ears.

I have three because I cannot live without music, so if something fails, I'm still good until the replacement arrives.

Cheers

Yup, I have always thought that frogman is a born teacher extraordinaire.
Of course , its what he thinks is all that matters .

rok, If all I listened to was small groups and vocals I would not spend as much as I have . But after going to live symphonic concerts at least a thousand times over the years, if I can’t hear the depth that allows you the instrumental separation that I’m used  to hearing ,its hard for me to listen. Little less with big band .

You lose much of any music when you eyes can’t see it as well .So all available hands on deck for me . Its more that I have a tin ear than a " golden one " .

****   if I could hear all the differences between components that they hear, I would constantly be ........****
😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄

Btw, it’s like claiming that the French had nothing to do with Cajun cuisine.  Kinda silly.  Same idea.  

The proof is in the hearing.  It’s there.  

Her Royal Highness , at her peak .

https://youtu.be/4as30GSYIxo?t=2

*****  if I can’t hear the depth that allows you the instrumental separation that I’m used to hearing ,its hard for me to listen. Little less with big band .*****

I hear you.   One major exception to me is Beethoven 5&7 by Carlos Kleiber / Wiener.   A great recording.   A lot of other stuff just comes across as a wall of sound.   Esp the 'autocrats' whom I love.

Now, Mozart and few others, Vivaldi etc.... always sound great on CD.   Very heavy on the strings.

Cheers

Frogman, Cuban slaves brought African rhythms that are still present. Brazilian slaves brought some very unique African rhythms, but American slaves lost the African rhythms, and brought the blues. Can you explain that?

frogman,

Thanks for the crash course on The seven notes in the most common scale in music, the Major scale.


I enjoyed the "African Blues" band you shared. It reminded me of a trip to Haiti I made in October of 2009, 3 months before the earthquake. I was 45 at the time and dating a beautiful 26 year old caramel skinned Haitian girl with a body to die for (I got horny just holding her hand as we walked).

Anyway she asked me if I wanted to visit some of her family that was still in Haiti. Since I was never there and like to travel I agreed. We flew into Port-au-Prince and her cousin picked us up in a Land Rover which Fabiola (my girl) had sent over there for when she visited. 
She had become a registered nurse and was doing well financially and would help her poverty stricken kinfolk in Haiti as much as possible.

Port-au-Prince was a pig sty and smelled like a landfill. The poverty was evident everywhere. We stopped at a few places there and then her cousin drove us over the mountain pass and into the town of Jacmel which was paradise compared to Port-au-Prince. I stayed at a luxury hotel there for 4 days and every day was a party on the beach and there were many bands with similar instruments in the video you shared playing similar music.

Every day we started drinking around noon and were feeling very nice by dusk which had beautiful sunsets. One day they slaughtered a goat and we ate it barbeque style. I was happy I made the trip. Fabiola lost her older brother to the earthquake 3 months later. Fabiola spoke English perfect as well as French and Creole. That video you posted brought back those memories for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacmel