I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
As they say, there is a reason there are vanilla and chocolate ice creams.
Inna, if it can be said that the whole point of music (art) is to elicit emotions, your last two posts succeed at the highest level; for me, in diametrically opposed ways. That Shawn Lane is an accomplished guitarist is undeniable; that his take on music (the "blues"?) is in a different universe than mine is also undeniable. The two words that come up for me when I listen to that clip are "ugly" and "desperation". That he was, as you point out, close to death is probably one of the reasons why. I am not saying his music is not good, only that I would rather have a colonoscopy (sorry) than listen to his playing.
While I can’t say that I would rather have a....well, let’s not go there again 😊....than listen to Jesse Cook, that brand of syrupy, World Music(ish), lightly Flamenco-infused style, while very pleasant, just doesn’t do it for me. Perhaps I am missing the sarcasm in your "masochistic" label. I will give Shawn Lane another try when I have the wherewithal. Thanks for the clips.
Haste makes waste. Correction: in my comments about Cantaloupe Island I should have written "notice how both versions are FASTER than the original". Sorry about the typo.
Inna, you seem to be an expert in Arab Flamenco, and all the other types of Flamenco as well, could you submit some of those; especially the one's with pretty pictures.
BTW, I was reading and listening to music, and I thought "The rig is sounding very good today" when I thought I was listening to CD, but it was the 2 track playing. That lets you know how much better it is than any other source.
The 4 channel Otari is not 2 track and it's also overkill, extremely complex. Costs 2K to turn it into 2 track, plus that clutch makes it out of bounds for the time being.
Orpheus10, he is Iranian not Arab. You should never get confused, they don't tolerate it. And I am not at all an expert in flamenco. Frogman, I first wanted to comment on your comments but changed my mind. In any case, I doubt that my intention was to elicit in you what got elicited. Yes, the tape project will come in my circle at the right moment. This will be either Otari or Studer.
Inna, I have no doubt that it was not your intention; apology if my comment suggested that. The tasteless attempt at humor in my comments was a visceral reaction to that clip. From that standpoint, I would say that the music succeeded.
Frogman - thanks for your insights into that HH Cataloupe Island performance. Just to be clear, I wasn't commenting negatively about the smiles at the end of it, just curious what the inside joke might have been.
Herbie Hancock's solo on "Cantaloupe Island" is among the best piano solos I've ever heard. The other one is Horace Silver's solo on "Senor Blues" at Newport.
These solos are a one time thing; they never even attempt to duplicate them. "Hard Bop" jazz musicians only have a "general" idea of what they are going to play when they perform live; Monk never played "Round Midnight" the same way twice, when that was his own composition.
Someone on sax asked Monk how to play something on a set, and Monk replied, "You a jazz musician aint cha"? Meaning if you're a jazz musician, you just put the horn to your mouth and blow, the right thing is going to automatically come out.
That's the difference between a "Hard Bop" jazz musician, and say a classical musician; an improvising jazz musician has to have incredible talent and feel; they are very special and unique.
When "jazz" musicians get on the stage, they rely on one another; Miles said what he played depended on what was played before him.
This is a beautiful live performance; all these guys are stars, but the guy on piano steals the show.
And before what was played before Miles was also Miles. I think, he needed no-one in a usual sense. Everything that was played with Miles and everyone who played with Miles were also in essence him. He simply couldn't play all the instruments required to play what he wanted to be played, nor could he do it at the same time. Milie's bands were one man bands. And yet he managed to bring out the best in everyone he played with. He was a unique musician and a very unusual person with special abilities.
Inna - with all due respect, I don't agree completely with your statement about Miles' bands being one man bands. Sure, his influence must have been enormous but I do believe he gave his musicians (I almost wrote, "magicians") space to express their own individual voices.
Correction to my last post: a classical musician has to have incredible talent and feel as well; except there is no music written down, and no repetition with an improvising jazz musician, and that's the primary distinction.
Any time a man can get on a stage and wow an audience of critical "hard bop" fans, playing extemporaneously, he has a talent beyond my comprehension.
Wanted to share a new music suggestion from Spotify’s Browse/ Discover function: Jazz Pistols.
Fusion from Germany (those madcap Germans, you know :-). Guitar, Bass, Drums. Instrumental (my preference). Latest album (on Spotify): Superstring (2010). Haven't made up my mind about the music on it. Like the guitar tone (always a soft spot for a hollow body’s sound) and the bass player’s work in particular. Musicianship seems first rate. Not sure how "deep" the musical ideas are, however. Will it bear up to repeat listening?
Here are a couple of studio live tracks: "Penguin" & "Twenty" (don’t judge the bass player by what he does on "Twenty", however!)
It appears that there are no musical ideas at all there. Generally speaking, I think that Scandinavians have a much better sense of jazz and jazz fusion. About Miles. I read, right or wrong, that after the 'Bitches Brew' he said to McLaughlin that he would be happy to have him in his band on a permanent basis and explore the new music together. At the same time he advised him to form his own band and continue independently. That's what gave an additional impulse to John's Mahavishnu Orchestra project.
Huh. Well, inna, I'm not prepared to say that yet. Haven't made it through the entirety of Superstring but can say their music is growing on me. Right now listening to Track 6 Smbh and liking it. Only time will tell, however. How often will I go back to listen to it? In my experience the albums I didn't "get" from the start can be the ones that end up being keepers. There seems enough complexity here to warrant some return visits.
Out of curiosity, other than McLaughlin/Mahavishnu Orch. & Miles Davis, who do you like? That should provide some insights.
When it comes to jazz fusion as I understand the term - no-one, except Nils Molvaer, but he is not in the same league. I stopped listening to classical jazz a long time ago. Going outside fusion, El Camaron de la Isla - the greatest flamenco singer of modern times, perhaps ever; some Paco de Lucia and Al Di Meola albums, Dead Can Dance, Suspended Memories - tribal ambient, some exotic unusual vocals - Sussan Deyhim, Azam Ali, Rasa, some Middle Eastern music, especially Persian, some neo-classical - "Umbersun" by Elend comes to mind, some of Malmsteen when he is at his best - listen to his concert with New Japan Philharmonic-, and from time to time I find interesting enough videos on youtube by others. Overall, I like very few, both artists and compositions.
Orpheus10, I believe this is the best acoustic guitar album of all times. It is deeper than Friday Night in San-Francisco. Bad digital sound from 80s. I have it on Japanese pro record, that's the best one can do.
Something totally different. I don't listen to it often but I do listen to it. Tony Scott - Music for the Zen Meditation. He plays with Japanese musicians.
For acoustic work by Al Di Meola I suggest "Cielo e Terra" and "Heart of the Immigrants" albums. Some tracks from "Kiss my Axe" are quite good too, the composition entitled "Morocco" is certainly worth the attention.
Zappa was a genius; and, a very opinionated one. He was also a very serious composer and student of the music of Edgar Varese and Stravinsky. He was a very deep musician whose music has a depth, complexity and level of craft that is leagues beyond Santana's. Santana's strength is that great and instantly recognizable tone with a really strong sense of sincerity and very deep "from the heart" quality in his playing. Most guitar players would say that Zappa was an infinitely better guitar player; just as most composers would say that Zappa was infinitely more accomplished. Which one touches any given listener's heart more is, as always, subjective and dependent on what that listener is looking for in music.
"He was a very deep musician whose music has a depth, complexity and level of craft that is leagues beyond Santana's."
Although I was deeply offended by that statement, I didn't have time to respond, but now I've got plenty time.
It really takes some gall to make a statement like that; who told him he was qualified to make such a definitive statement? I told him many times that music was "subjective" but I see it still hasn't stuck.
"Santana" has been one of my favorite artists since the late 60's, and still is. I don't know how many vinyl copies of "Abraxas" I've replaced, and after all this time, it's still a hot item; I use it for a test record, and no one ever complains. It seems that people who like many different genres of music have that one in their collection; I wonder if Frogman has it in his collection?
Tony Scott, music for Zen meditation, I was struck by the first few notes; it's the kind of music you listen to in solitude with no distractions, I'll have to get it.
I think, they are not bad, could be a little more sophisticated. For some reason I liked the last two tracks most. I checked their other albums as well. I like tribal ambient music. You could try Steve Roach/Jorge Reyes - Vine Bark&Spore album. I play it quite often as a background music. It doesn't call to attention to it, not invasive in any way, creates certain mindscapes and surroundings. You don't have to listen to it in a usual sense, it is more that it will listen to you.
Those must have been the one's with the "didgeridoos"; I like that instrument best with music other than native; but I have some didgeridoo music from as far back as when they could first record anything, it has noisy insects in the background, as you would have in the field.
That didgeridoo music I have is from over 100 years ago, and it's about as authentic as you can get. That's when I was into primitive cultures, and reading books over 100 years old. According to those books, the "Aborigines" could communicate telepathically; that certainly beats telephone.
The music we've been discussing is the kind that you have to be in a certain groove to appreciate.
****I wonder if Frogman has it in his collection?****
Funny you should ask; prescient, actually!
We have a cabin in the country. One of our closest "neighbors" deep in the woods has been an abandoned house with completely overgrown grounds, a roof that is literally caving in and letting the rain in. Doesn’t seem as if anyone had been in there for many years and there are posters from the Sheriff’s office on the door. About a year ago, our dog Artie decided to wander off into the woods and chased a wood chuck into the garage of this house by squeezing himself under the garage door. He would not come out of the garage and I was forced to pry the door slightly open and squeeze myself in and retribe my beagle. When inside the garage and after locating my dog I noticed, to my amazement, three long shelves holding lp’s. I couldn’t resist and I went throught the lp’s. Most were in horrible condition, covered with dust and debris. There, amongst the Grand Funk Railroad, Bee Gees and Mantovani Orchestra records were the only two that I was remotely interested in: Cat Stevens "Tea For The Tillerman" and, yes, Santana "Abraxas".........I did the unthinkable. Oh my God, I lost sleep that night.......I took them!!!
In terrible shape, but it was kind of fun revisiting those two records that I listened to so many times while in High School forty five years (!) ago in various states of mild inebriation. The feeling of nostalgia was great. It also made it starkly clear why I never replaced those records after losing, or.....them. I like Santana "Abraxas", but, to be blunt and brief, I have no interest (or time) to listen to it when there are so many records of the caliber of music by Coltrane, Stravinsky, Miles, Herbie Hancock and many of the hundreds of records that have been discussed here. It is music evocative of a certain period in popular music and features Santana’s soulful playing; but, in the scheme of music at large, not on a particularly high level compositionally nor instrumentally......for me. I feel no need to buy a replacement copy.
So, O-10, I did have the record in my collection while a teenager (😉) and, recently, for about two weeks until guilt got the better of me and I actually took the records back for the woodchucks to use as they please. So, I hope that answers your question.
Now, O-10, why must you always personalize matters?
****It really takes some gall to make a statement like that; who told him he was qualified to make such a definitive statement?****
I find it particularly curious that someone who hides behind the "it’s subjective" mantra should have a problem with someone else’s opinion. What’s good for the goose....." No? "Deeply offended"? Really? Eventhough I acknowledged the good aspects of that record? I will limit my response to that to question marks lest I, myself, make things personal.
O-10, there is nothing that is not accurate about what I wrote about Zappa/Santana. I have no desire to argue with you about music without, at least, a semblance of desire on your part for substance and depth as has happened so many times previously when there has been disagreement. I could outline in substantive detail why I made the comment that I made; if there is a sincere desire on your part to understand it. In the meantime, I will point you in the direction of Santana’s own comments in a link that I posted and which, apparently, you didn’t bother to read. His comments corroborate exactly what I wrote:
****I told him many times that music was "subjective" but I see it still hasn’t stuck.****
In response, I’d like to, with your permission and partly in jest, use your own words:
++++It really takes some gall to make a statement like that; who told him he was qualified to make such a definitive statement? ++++
Of course, since YOU said it then it must be Gospel. But, .....wait!, I seem to recall a recent post of yours when, in a moment of clarity, you wrote: "music is both subjective and objective".
Frogman, If that's the case, why don't you compare Zappa to Ray Charles, and Milt Jackson on "Blue Funk"; they ain't got no degrees in music.
My best friend's brother has a degree from Juilliard, and he teaches school; I ain't never heard him play squat, since he played enough to get into school.
This is about how much music you can play, not how much music you know. To me, Zappa is just a name: "What do he play"?
It’s OK, O-10; I still like you. Honest question: how much of Zappa’s music have you listened to and how would you describe it? Did you read the interview in that clip? What was your interpretation of it?
Btw, I was not reacting to the "subjective" thing; that, I realize very well, is the expected fallback position. I was reacting mostly to the "gall" and related comments. I reacted because, one would think, a non-personal comment made by someone who one has interacted with about music for almost four years and someone who, in spite of differences of opinion, just, maybe just, might have something to say about the topic and be worthy of brief consideration; and, worthy of, at least, a request for explanation without taking matters to the nasty, negative, disrespectful place that you always seem hell-bent on taking matters. I understand full well why you react the way you do to some of my comments; and, it's not what it may always seem. I prefer to not go there as it serves no purpose in what this thread should be about; and, taking positions, fallback or not, is not what it should be about, imo.
Mick Goodrick; I'm sure I have some of his records, I'll have to dig them out. Jerry Bergonzi is new to me; this is a nice sounding band, I like it, Mick is in a mellow groove, him and Jerry are making things happen; "Blow Jerry Blow!"
Bob Mintzer sounds new and fresh, this jam has a hip Latin beat; but with a name like "El Caborojeno", what else could I expect.
Frogman, the title of this thread is "Jazz For Aficionados"; where is it written that I should have "Zappa" in my collection, or heard him?
I've seen the name 101 times on the music forum, but I've also seen a lot of other names on the forum that I don't have, or have not heard. When I hear them, I know why I haven't heard them, and once was enough, I don't want to hear them again. The fact that I only know the name means I'm not interested in the music if I haven't heard it. I don't read any thing in my statement that was a comment on music I haven't heard.
At this minute I'm listening to "Trance Fusion"; it's for sure I wont run out and buy it. The complexity of a man's music don't do squat for me; I'm neither a musician, nor a music teacher.
"Enough is enough", I can not listen another minute longer; that's enough of Zappa for the day.
He frequently lampooned musical fads like psychedelia, rock opera and disco. Television also exerted a strong influence, as demonstrated by quotations from show themes and advertising jingles found in his later works.
"Trance Fusion" sounded like a combination of psychedelia, rock opera and disco, to me; now "Wikipedia" said he "lampooned" those different genres, I don't get it. but I'm sure you can explain it to me Frogman.
Inna, on the "real side", about reels, unless you can buy an almost new one, or have an unlimited budget, this might be a good way to go, at least it's worked for me for a number of years.
I have a service manual for my Technics RS 1500 US 2 track, and I've been able to repair it without sending it off; that's because it's easy to work on.
My new problem is tape tension, and the manual tells what to adjust to cure it.
There is no way I would buy a used deck without repair being in the same town I lived in. Things have gotten so bad in regard to repair that you can't find anybody to fix any thing like tape decks in a city as big as St. Louis, and that includes the surrounding "Burbs".
When I can no longer repair this one, that's the end of the road.
Orpheus10, you are too pessimistic. Yes, it would cost, and shipping RTR deck has its risks, but it's worth it. There is no end of the road. If I get Otari and at some point will have to ship it to Japan to properly service it, I will ship it to Japan. The same with Studer. I will find places in Europe if I can't find them in the US or Canada. My audiophile fund is quite limited, but I will save up and get it done. It might take time to find qualified people prepared to deal with shipping decks, I'll find them. For now I am about to ship my Nakamichi 682ZX deck to Willy Hermann in California to have it cleaned aligned and for minor repairs. He will spend 5-6 hours with the deck to make sure everything is in top condition. Yes, it would cost me around $850 including shipping both ways. But I play the deck a lot and have to do it only every 5-7 years. So, things are pretty bad but not that bad.
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