Jazz for aficionados
This is what I was referring to by Grachun Moncur III, as being abstract, although this particular cut is quite accessible for me, but there are other cuts on this same LP that are abstract. I was going through his music, since I don't have anything by him as leader. In general some of his music is quite abstract as I would define it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiHdgDK3LpE&list=RDBiHdgDK3LpE This is a fine tune on this album which I will order. Enjoy the music. |
Gotcha Orpheus. Good point about the contrast between Sidewinder and Search. Have to remember to also view these things in the context of the times in which they were released. I'll give a listen to the music on the link you provided. Also, found "Evolution" on Spotify and will listen more to that later. Interesting that on track 1/Air Raid I swear I heard a melody or progression that sounded like something from a Steely Dan or maybe a Donald Fagen solo recording. Will listen again. Would not surprise me at all if that pair borrowed something. Do you consider Dolphy's "Out to Lunch" abstract? |
Although abstract may seem to be an easy word to describe, it's not. The definition can only be agreed on by the people using the word. I'm going to find jazz that I call abstract, and see if it fits your definition as well, and you can do likewise, and between all of us, we will know what we're talking about when we say "abstract jazz". Grachan, calls this "New Africa", since I don't hear "Africa", it must be abstract. I don't hear Art Blakey's Africa with the talking drums, therefore it's not concrete, so it must be "abstract". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xo0mzj-lg4 The first cut is "Queen Tamam"; jazzy African Queen; "you go girl, strut your stuff"; somehow I can not picture an African Queen; therefore it's got to be "abstract" This is definitely abstract because it's beyond my facility's to comprehend it as coherent jazz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJRcWW0R44Y While that's not a precise definition, it's good enough for me. Enjoy the music. |
If Eric Dolphy's "Out To Lunch" ain't abstract, grits ain't grocery, eggs ain't poultry, and Mona Lisa was a man. Some of my favorite musicians are crazy about "Eric Dolphy"; it must have been his personality. If I owned this record, I would leave it at a friends house, and give him a ring when I wanted to hear it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B09BWkpVv74 That guy can mess up anything; that was one of my favorite tunes, and look what he done did to it. Enjoy the music. |
"If Eric Dolphy's "Out To Lunch" ain't abstract, grits ain't grocery, eggs ain't poultry, and Mona Lisa was a man." O - Okay! So Out to Lunch is a good example of "abstract" to both of us. "Some of my favorite musicians are crazy about 'Eric Dolphy'; it must have been his personality. If I owned this record, I would leave it at a friends house, and give him a ring when I wanted to hear it." That's pretty funny. And I appreciate your candor. I want to like Dolphy because people I think know more than I do say there's something there. BUT he's a real tough listen for me. Something I have to work at. Eventually (maybe) with enough listening what he's doing will start to sink in - but not without work. The opposite of accessible! And time being short, got to ask...is it worth the effort?That's rhetorical. My bro-in-law is a gifted musician. Runs a "boutique" studio blah blah blah. Bottom line...I respect his o-pinion. Long time ago he had this Brecker Bros. album. Don't recall the name but it sure wasn't the Beatles Love Me Do. Weird time signatures and complex rhythms. I remember him describing it to me as "musician's music". High technical content...not too much for the layperson to grab onto right away. That's kind of how I see (hear) Dolphy. By the way though, sound quality on the Rudy Van Gelder remastered version on Spotify is really good. Some very interesting percussion sounds. I'm guessing it was a very good recording from the get go. |
Ghosthouse, one of my friends like's free jazz, and every time these musicians come to town, he gives me a ring; fortunately, we've been friends for a very long time, so I go pick him up, with earplugs; but "free Jazz" should be free, you shouldn't have to pay for it. I've been through what you're talking about in regard to that musician, and I always say the "politically correct things one should say in order not to offend" (it's easier that way), but I still don't like snails and raw oysters, nor will I make an attempt to eat them. Music I don't like is no different than snails or raw oysters. Enjoy the music. |
The Last Session. Studio album by Lee Morgan Released May 1972 Recorded September 17-18, 1971 Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs The Last Session (also released as Lee Morgan) is the final studio album by jazz trumpeter Lee Morgan before his death in 1972. It was originally released on the Blue Note label in 1972 as a double LP, and features performances by Morgan, Grachan Moncur III, Bobbi Humphrey, Billy Harper, Harold Mabern, Reggie Workman, Jymie Merritt and Freddie Waits. The Allmusic review by Michael G. Nastos awarded the album 4 stars stating "It is unfortunate that the brilliant and forward-thinking Morgan was cut down at such a young age, for as the music was changing, he would have adapted, as this final statement valiantly suggests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZEKscACnlw&list=PL1D7B1AA9A8561D27&index=2 Ghosthouse, this is another boss album I don't have. Out of curiosity, are you still into LP's, I bet this wax would be nice. Enjoy the music. |
Thanks for the recommendation Orpheus. Enjoying the piano solo around the 3 minute mark on Capra Black. Lee is certainly looking Miles-ish in that photo. Least it looks that way to me. I do still buy vinyl though most music purchase are CD. Hear something really good on Spotify or YouTube and get it. Burn it to hard drive. Would be hard pressed to explain why and when I buy vinyl...as the spirit moves, I guess. Mostly buy used. Somethings aren't available on CD (e.g., Sugarcane Harris - Keyzop). Have a few of the so-called audiophile re-issues but enjoy finding an old copy of something from back in the day. There's something about listening to music from and holding in your hands something made 40-50 years ago...especially when it still sounds so good. I get it about the snails and raw oysters...I don't have a problem with 'em but then, don't ask me to eat liver or beets. See if you like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDxf6WtbMY8 Salve |
I just received The Grant Green and Sonny Clark Quartets, here's the scoop; they made real good music, but not near the level I have been accustomed from by either artist. I'm glad I bought the music, but I didn't hear the Grant Green I'm so familiar with from way back; do not add or subtract anything from that statement, I said what was mathematically and scientifically accurate Frogman. Enjoy the music. |
Many times when discussing an era of music in the past, most of the participants in that discussion are unable to put themselves back into that time frame; who were your friends, what kind of clothes did you wear, since you were probably into "Stereo Review", what was your rig like? Did you like this music when it came out? If presently we're into "Hard Bop", and you compare that music with what we're into now, "Fusion" will probably flunk. I would like to go back to "Fusion". Herby Hancock has never flunked, no matter what the genre of music. If it's OK with the rest of the "Aficionados" I would like to go back to that time when Herby Hancock's "Sextant" was the latest in this genre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spnjTzuVBO0 Take your time, and really get into this, I would like to spend some time in this genre if it's OK with you? Enjoy the music. |
Orpheus - Very pleased you liked Sugarcane's Keyzop. He was part of the duo, Don & Dewey way back. His is another sad story of a musician. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_%22Sugarcane%22_Harris Some of his discography is available on CD...but not that much. See how little Amazon has vs his output. Keyzop isn't on CD but I was fortunate enough to find a good vinyl copy and at a decent price. I have a few other of his recordings on vinyl. Among others, Harris played in Zappa's band. http://www.united-mutations.com/h/sugarcane_harris.htm Don't be put off by the FZ name. Try to ignore the (deserved) stereotype image based around juvenile bathroom humor. Don is on several Zappa albums. As a good example of how Zappa used him, I love his solo during"Little House I Used to Live In" on Burnt Weenie Sandwich. Track starts at 19:13 at link here. Harris' solo starts at 24:28. It soars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBRUcElxhJU As you say, enjoy the music. |
Ghosthouse, while I didn't like the Zappa band, I found another cut by "Sugercane" that I did like; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5XAAB_kGR8 Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, the first time I heard Grant Green was in 58 before he became a professional, which means I heard him far beyond his discography, that means I'm very well acquainted with just about everything about his music. Review by Stephen Thomas Erlewine [-] Mosaic released a four-disc box set titled The Complete Blue Note With Sonny Clark in 1991, rounding up everything that the guitarist and pianist recorded together between 1961 and 1962. Blue Note's 1997 version of the set, The Complete Quartets With Sonny Clark, trims Mosaic's collection by two discs, offering only the quartet sessions (the Ike Quebec sessions, Born to Be Blue and Blue and Sentimental, are available on individual discs). In some ways, this actually results in a more unified set, since it puts Green and Clark directly in the spotlight, with no saxophone to complete for solos, but it doesn't really matter if the music is presented as this double-disc set, the four-disc box, or the individual albums -- this is superb music, showcasing the guitarist and pianist at their very best. All of the sessions are straight-ahead bop but the music has a gentle, relaxed vibe that makes it warm, intimate, and accessible. Grant and Clark's mastery is subtle -- the music is so enjoyable, you may not notice the deftness of their improvisation and technique -- but that invests the music with the grace, style, and emotion that distinguishes The Complete Quartets. Small group hard bop rarely comes any better than this. There is a possibility that I'm not accustomed to this "gentle relaxed vibe that makes it warm and intimate". Since I prefer his driving hard bop, it's just a matter of taste and opinion. Enjoy the music. |
After Tony Williams left Miles he joined together with John Mcglaughlin and Larry Young! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrlBRsS1nKA |
Acman, now it's coming back to me; to the uninitiated, that sounds like noise, but, if you have special musical receptors in your brain that are tuned to "Fusion", it's music from another planet. Somehow, that music was always best live with black lights that made ladies stockings glow, when they had the right kind of pastel hot pink kind. The music was best live because no recording was ever clear enough to catch all the little sounds at high frequencies that made that kind of music work. And to be perfectly honest, I had always inhaled some kind of musical enhancement fumes; they really clarified the sound; not to be confused with what's going on today. Enjoy the music. |
Here's "Weather Report" live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bIk1Wl21Yk Here's "Black Market" by weather report; that cover looks just like a market place in Haiti. There is no way you can believe someplace as close as Haiti could be so far away otherwise. That music always took me far away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7_vNpVXubA In order to enjoy this trip, you have to turn on your time machine, and duplicate everything that went on when you were buying and listening to this music. Enjoy the journey. |
"Elegant People" by Weather Report is most certainly one of my favorite cuts of that era, and genre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThF63iql478 Enjoy the music. |
****are you ready to go into fusion in depth; I mean to cover it to your hearts content, rather than just skim over it?**** Sure, and I’m glad to see that you want to cover it in depth, because all too often "skim over it" is exactly what has happened with other topics. For me, "in depth" means that, for starters, things have to be put in a chronological or historical perspective. How did it all began? Where did "fusion" come from? What are the earliest examples of it? How did it evolve? By the mid sixties traditional Jazz was considered to be practically commercially dead by record producers, while rock and pop where increasing in popularity and young musicians who were growing up with this music started experimenting with mixing elements of jazz in rock projects and vise versa. The increasing use of electric instruments was a major force in all this. Early fusion projects sound very different from what "fusion" would become, but the lineage is clear and interesting. Guitarist Larry Corryell’s band "The Free Spirits" is considered by many to be the first jazz "fusion" band (1966): https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLa7DwXF9n16EYojdIWL-PFQc_be9iUzvp¶ms=OAFIAVgG&v=Zf95lF... Formed around 1968 the band "Dreams" with the Brecker brothers on horns and Billy Cobham on drums was on the forefront of the fusion movement: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UFK_S-ILmGo In 1969 Frank Zappa released "Hot Rats" which predated much of what fusion would become: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FFNQQpsOMF4 Acman3 already mentioned and posted Tony Williams’ "Lifetime"; classic early fusion band and VERY influential. That same year Miles Davis would release "In A Silent Way", his first fusion record and first record from his electric period: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL407832509983DB72&v=AOy-pJ1xQe0 One year later (1970) Miles would release "Bitches Brew" and would blow things wide open for the fusion genre; it was here to stay. Hugely influential record: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1a1Ph-ioxoA |
A slight (☺️) detour before getting back to fusion. I thought some, and Rok in particular, would appreciate this. Ted Nash of JALC, friend and one of the biggest young(er) talents on the scene today writes about Joe Temperley, longtime baritone saxophone in Wynton's band and who passed away recently. http://tednash.com/blog/celebrating-joe-temperley |
Frogman, although I've heard Miles mention "In a Silent Way", it was one of his albums that eluded me. That album was released at about the same time I saw Miles live in Chicago. This wasn't in a club setting, but in a huge auditorium, and somebody bought the cheap seats, consequently I don't remember the personnel on that performance, but I'm assuming they were similar to the record. Nina Simone and Herby Mann were on the same bill, that's why it was in such a huge place. Miles Davis – trumpet Wayne Shorter – soprano saxophone John McLaughlin – electric guitar Chick Corea – electric piano Herbie Hancock – electric piano Joe Zawinul – organ Dave Holland – double bass Tony Williams – drums However, I do remember the sound of that performance and it was what the above cast would produce; electric piano, Tony Williams on drums, Wayne Shorter, John Mclaughlin, electric guitar. That sound coming from Miles Davis was a shock that I wasn't prepared for, but my New Yorker friend clued me in. Musicians at the clubs I went to began to duplicate that "electric sound". By that time the shock had worn off and I kind of liked it. Enjoy the music |
Santana and "Abraxas" took over the world of music in 1970; this music could be heard everywhere I went; jazz, rock, blues establishments, no matter what the dominant genre of music in that particular lounge, something from "Abraxas" was on the jukebox. (never went to a hillbilly lounge) Rok, you have to go back to what was happening at that time in order to re-discover fusion; I'm sure you bought at least 2 or 3 fusion albums. "The Beatles" music was popular at that time, and since I didn't care for "The Beatles" I didn't know I was listening to their music recorded by another artist; everybody recorded their music. So many things were happening in the music world in general, that "jazz-Jazz" was pushed completely out of the picture. I use this music to audition just about everything when I'm going to make a new audio purchase. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xskk5q1DL6A Enjoy the music |
Rok, here's one of your favorite artists Chick Corea, him and "Return To Forever" put out some good music that I still listen to. Flora Purim – vocals, percussion Joe Farrell – soprano saxophone, flute Chick Corea – electric piano, Fender Rhodes Stanley Clarke – acoustic bass, electric bass Airto Moreira – drums, percussion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAYUfuJW18U Flora Purim never sounded better. Here's another one by "Return to Forever" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHVNIqbncrM It was a girl who told me to buy three albums: "Hymn of The Seventh Galaxy"; "Sextant" by Herby Hancock, and "Black Market" by Weather Report. I had never heard "fusion" before then; this music was astounding, like nothing I had ever heard, and to think "a girl" recommended this, wonders never cease. Enjoy the music. |
Fusion did / does not pass the 'CD TEST'. IOW, I replaced all my favorite LPs with CDs. Fusion did not make that cut. I have all the Weather Report and Crusaders and all that stuff on LP. None of it on CD. That is the best way to find out what you really like. There are exceptions, like 'Bitches Brew'. It's noise, but it's significant noise, from an important player in Jazz. If the word 'electric' appears in the notes, don't click on "place your order"!! I have Santana's big three. They were very big on the German / European disco scene. But, disco is gone, so is my interest in Santana. And Lastly, what exactly, is the point of 'fusion'? Why weren't other types of music 'fused'? If it was a way for artists to make more money, then those days / artists are gone also. There is no longer any reason to buy it. Cheers |
Unfortunately I kind of understand what you mean; I'm looking at two tall stacks of records at this very moment, the reason they're stacked in a wrong manner is because I ran out of room, and don't know what to do with them. I understand exactly what you mean about the CD test. Frogman's leading this parade, and I'm going to do what I can to add to it. The problem I'm having is that I don't seem to be able to add anything new, or discover anything new like we did in "Hard Bop". I was hoping you would come up with something I overlooked during that time. My frame of mind has changed so much since then; that's the only thing I can think of that would alter my taste so much from that time until now. But we are all a part of a "Magagopolis" and when it changes so do we. It has changed drastically since then, and it hasn't been in the slow normal fashion. When I step back on to the moon and look down, I can see changes people are unaware of; especially economically. Since how we are affected by economic changes would change the subject drastically I'll let it rest till everybody is ready. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, I have discovered some music that's new to me, it's Dorothy's harp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J78y1zpHhMc I have never before seen or heard of this album, which is rather strange since I'm a Dorothy Ashby fan from way back. I'm going to continnue to look; this CD is just over 30 minutes and cost's $24.61. That's better than $240. for one CD I looked into, but it adds up. Enjoy the music. |
Here he is, Alan Pasqua with the "Anti Social-Club"; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFa7FZm9wMQ Genuine Bona Fide fusion, electrical to the bone, it's even got a little echo, that reminds me of reverb, back in the day; sounded like you were in a cave in an automobile. That was first rate Ghosthouse, what else you got? Enjoy the music. |
Dorothy Ashbly: It was Ok. Bad recordings, but that's not her fault. I had to google Jazz Harpist to see how common they are. Came up with this: https://myspace.com/loriandrews/video/the-pluckin-blues-music-video-/109771551 In my opinion, the timbre is all wrong for Jazz. Something like Bags on Vibes would have been better. But the real question is, why? Borders on gimmickry. Wanna play Jazz, play a Jazz instrument. Cheers |
If you guys insist on listening to everything but Jazz, try this: Spot 'Michael Jackson' and get all my Weather Report 8-track tapes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jZKhC7CtEI&list=RD-jZKhC7CtEI I find this addictive. I could listen to this all day. What a terrifying cover. Reminds me of The Third Man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HtHEgINHO0 Cheers |
Glad you liked Alan Pasqua, Orpheus. That YouTube link is but one track (title track) from what is a very strong album. It's current music and very affordable on Amazon in CD. http://www.amazon.com/Antisocial-Club-Alan-Pasqua/dp/B000VKL0O4 Hmmm...Rok, ever see Terry Gilliam's fusion of Orwell's 1984 and Monty Python? He called it "Brazil". It ain't a comedy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvBF3Lxla98 |
Hello Orpheus et al - Here’s someone’s list of Top 12 Modern Fusion, Jazz-Rock Albums posted to Amazon by "Madrok". https://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/1Y9NNMLBOP8N3 These might be worth sampling at the least. I’m not familiar with any of these and only recognized a few names. The Dave Holland "Extensions" recording that I sampled here did NOT seem all that much like Jazz Rock to me but did seem worth further listening if I can find it. Friday Afternoon in the Universe is by Medeski Martin and Wood. I do know them. Own and have listened to Shack Man & Combustication quite often. I believe their stuff is often referred to as "acid jazz". Some of their tracks can be a bit challenging (okay...make that a lot challenging) - too much in a "free jazz" style, I think. I will say the 2 CDs I have are excellent recordings sound quality-wise. Friday Afternoon here sounds pretty good too. Found it on Spotify. Track 1 "The Lover" is pretty accessible. These guys know how to lay down the funk. Hope the list is interesting to you and yields some gems. PS - Please at least TRY track 4 "Last Chance to Dance...." in that MMW Friday Afternoon recording. Love his chords in the piano solo. |
Orpheus - Found the whole MM&W "Friday Afternoon in the Universe" on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS8O9fEa19Q Ain't saying it is best album of the 12 (haven't heard 'em all) - but they do put down a righteous groove on track1. Hard to keep the toes from tappin' and the head from boppin'. I'll be disappointed if no one else has the same reaction to that track. Track 4 also worth some attention. Maybe others as well. Here again is the link to the 12 album Jazz-Rock fusion list I found on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/1Y9NNMLBOP8N3 Hope you do enjoy it. |
