Rok, sometime you have a hard time understanding things; before Leon Thomas was anything, he was a childhood friend, and now he's dead. Although he's been dead since 99, I haven't dealt with that fact. I might start a record, and then stop it. When he was alive, I enjoyed his records, but now it's a mixed bag.
This is no different than if you were hearing a childhood friends voice that was no longer with us. I should have dealt with his death when he died, but I didn't; and now whether I want to deal with it or not, I have no choice. It's no fun dealing publicly with something I should have dealt with a long time ago, but such is life.
Enjoy the music.
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Hey Frogman - Thanks for your insights into preparations for that Mingus sextet performance. "...that solo by Dolphy is deliciously strange." :-) Well said. I'm no Dolphy-ologist but the little I know, that seems to be the story on him. Zappa certainly appreciated him. (Yet another who died too soon). http://www.allmusic.com/song/eric-dolphy-memorial-barbecue-mt0010976240 |
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Rok, while checking out Jimmy Blanton records I ran across this and knew you were a fan. Can’t figure out why? ;0 )*****
I just love American Opera Divas. Started with the tough, street wise, NYC babe, Beverly Sills. Battle is a treat to hear and see! She conquered the Opera World, but never forgot her church roots.
I will assume this was made prior to her musical relationship with Wynton. Otherwise, I am sure he would have been the trumpet player.
I have a 3 CD set by Ellington called "The Blanton-Webster Band". Also one Cd titled "This one's for Blanton" with Ellington and Ray Brown. This should tell you what Ellington thought of him.
Thanks for the clip of Miss Battle. I do miss her.
Cheers |
I would like to add one thing about musicians and money - the vast majority of musicians do not make very much at all from album sales. Only the very top artists who sell millions of albums make good money from sales - the record labels kept just about all of those profits. This is also true of the studio musicians in Hollywood - there are only about 300 or so musicians total in LA who make a lot of money from royalties from films they played on. And for orchestral musicians, while we often get small payments from making a recording, this is insignificant compared to our regular income. Some of the top soloists will make some nice royalties, but even for them, the majority of their income is from the actual live performances.
So many of those jazz musicians O-10 is asking about would indeed have made more money touring and performing than they did from recordings, again only excepting the very top names.
There are actually many battles going on right now for musicians to get paid fairly in this digital day and age. I would encourage everyone on this board who loves music and musicians to write their congressman in support of the Fair Play Fair Pay Act. I'm bad at providing links, but this can be googled for those curious, which I hope would be all of you, or I can speak more about it in another post if people want. |
There is Leon Thomas the musician, and Leon my childhood friend; when they had the funeral for Leon the famous musician (famous in St. Louis) I had to close on the very same house I'm living in right now, and I couldn't attend both. In hindsight I wish I had canceled, and scheduled the closing for another day.
After Leon's funeral, I was sorry I didn't attend, but I got over it. Now it's hitting me that wasn't just Leon the musician's funeral, that was also Leon my childhood friend; we use to catch grasshoppers together in the field behind our houses. Me, him, and his brother went swimming together. You are never supposed to eat anything before going swimming, but he ate a half a chicken with lettuce and tomatoes every time before we went swimming, and never got a cramp, or gained weight; those are some of my memories.
The eerie part of this is, now I hear Leon my childhood friend, as opposed to Leon the musician. He sounds better than ever on these new CD's, and I'm enough of an "audiophile"to consider that an objective statement. I admit it would take a psychiatrist to sort this out, but I'm reconciling with those two people; soon I will have them focused into one person.
I think I have resolved my quite personal "Leon Thomas dilemma", now we can go on to other things.
Enjoy the music.
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Lost childhood, lost friends and regrets - certainly not unique to you alone, O. Thanks for sharing those memories. I hope the words in this song are true... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdtAfUtOEWA I don’t believe it’s all for nothing It’s not just written in the sand Sometimes I thought you felt too much And you crossed into the shadow land And the river was overflowing And the sky was fiery red You gotta play the hand that’s dealt ya That’s what the old man always said Fallen angel Casts a shadow up against the sun If my eyes could see The spirit of the chosen one In my dream the pipes were playing In my dream I lost a friend Come down Gabriel and blow your horn ’Cause some day we will meet again |
Hang in there Orpheus10-
as above, our next Jazz Bassist is Mingus. Discuss...
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Ghosthouse, I really appreciated your thoughtful post. When you get to be an old man, there is nothing more precious than childhood memories; this was at a time when everyday revealed something new and magical, that you shared with "a childhood friend".
Thank you.
Enjoy the music.
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Jafant, although Charles Mingus plays bass, I don't think of him as a bassist because of all the music he's composed, and fantastic records he's made. I hope that's not too confusing, but when you get to be an old jazz "aficionado" you'll understand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sfe_8RAaJ0Enjoy the music. |
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Orpheus - I suspect we aren't that different, age-wise. Childhood: what a mixed bag...dreams and nightmares but definitely, some magical moments. |
Rok, as long as I've been listening to jazz, and that includes listening at a variety of friends homes, you would think that I had at least heard about almost every album in this time frame and genre (that's what I thought) I've never heard of either one of these albums; I'll have to get them.
"The Big 6" has made an old tune brand new; each one of those musicians is a star.
Enjoy the music.
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IME, 1959 (the best year in Jazz) Mingus really took off both musically/professionally. Ah Um. |
Horace Parlan, plays piano on Mingus album, also played with Lou Donaldson, Booker Ervin, Eddie ‘Lockjaw’ Davis, Johnny Griffin, Rahsaan Roland Kirk and others. He made few recordings as leader for a Blue Note label,at the begining of 60's in various set ups. This one is in trio form, called simply Us3, that I like. Probably he is in that 'underrated' category. Here is the link https://youtu.be/BsEDeLrk65k?list=PL34877C742F2457B0 |
The Grammy Awards:
I can't decide which was more absurd, The Categories, The "winners", or the so-called 'Music' itself?
I did recognize about three names. The Fairfield Four, Tony Bennett and Buddy Guy.
The Fairfield Four won in a new category: "Roots Gospel." WTF is that? Wiki says it was created this year to 'protect' traditional (real) Gospel. So modern day noise makers could win awards in Gospel Music. Sort of like kid's sports these days. Everyone gets a trophy. What a farce!!
And people howled and sneered when I suggested Jazz might need a little 'protection'.
Someone said 1959 was the Greatest Year in Jazz. 1939 was the Greatest year in Hollywood.
When you think about it, the arts in this country have been in decline for a long time.
I used to be able to name the conductors of all the major US and European Symphony Orchestras. The were giants. Legendary. Who are they now? Who knows / cares.
One Frenchman's Opinion.
Cheers
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Thanks! for sharing- orpheus10 & rok.
Happy Listening! |
Alex, I remember Horace Parlan from Mingus Albums, also he was especially good on "Salt Song" with Stanley Turrentine; these are the albums I have with his work as a sideman, now I'll have to get one where he's the leader.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, Lee Morgan is "smokin" as usual. Wes Montgomery sounds better on albums before he had those hits, and changed to a more popular oriented sound. I only have scratchy records of the time when he was deep in a jazz groove. New CD's sound so much better than records.
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Orpheus, perception is strange. Have 'Salt S.' album as well, now you made me check it for H.Parlan. Had no idea he was playing there, always thought about that record as one where Eric Gale plays nice sounding, blues guitar.Those Cti recordings are kind of baroquesque. Here is another album of Stanley Turrentine from period that I like more, and aldo I have it since long time ago, to my surprise just noticed that Parlan plays there too. 'Up at Minton's' https://youtu.be/-JReGzY6C08?list=PLF46F133F083566FD |
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I just heard something very nice by; Jimmy Ponder- Alone Together. |
Hi O-10 - I am pretty sure I have read a transcript of that discussion before, but when I get a chance (I see the whole thing is an hour long) I will definitely check that out - thanks for posting it! |
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Thank You- orpheus10- I will look into Abdul Malik.
Paul Chambers on deck... |
No doubt that Mingus was a madman on the Bass (legendary). It is that very fine line that make one great, while others, not-so-great. He also played on occasion, Piano. |
Around the Bassist discussions, check out; Helen Gillet Jason Adasiewsz |
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Speaking of Conductors, What do our two esteemed classical musicians, Frogman and Learsfool, think of Jaap Van Sweden leaving the Dallas Symphony for New York Philharmonic ?
I thought it would be a good thing for New York, because he is very good in my novice opinion, but noticed some apprehension in an article. I guess change is hard on both sides when someone leaves a post.
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Since Bassmen are primarily sidemen, except for OP and Mingus, their best work can be found on records headed by others. For example Milt Hintons best work, in my opinion, is on "Heavy Soul" with Ike Quebec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1cTgZDUsScThey made this record when Ike was dying and they knew it, hence the title "Heavy Soul". Milt Hinton's bass contributes so very much to this cut; but all of them played their hearts out on this album. According to Frogman, Duke Ellington's bassist, Jimmy Blanton was very influential. Also Ray Brown, Paul Chambers, Milt Hinton, Charles Mingus, Wilbur Ware and, Oscar Pettiford. LaFaro was a pivotal figure in the bass world but hardly the first important bass player. Jafant, perhaps you can find Jimmy Blanton's best work. Wilbur Ware is another bassist I don't think we've explored. Enjoy the music. |
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Acman3, I had the pleasure of performing Britten's "Sinfonia Da Requiem" with Van Sweden a few weeks ago here in NY. He was well liked by the orchestra. He was very personable, clear techniqe, very energetic, and no "vibe"; very straight forward guy. Should be a good marriage. Whether it will be a good long term match remains to be seen.
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Jafant, as I recall, checking out the bassist was your idea, and we're still waiting on your "first" investigation of a basist. It was suggested that you give us a report on Jimmy Blanton.
After getting a description from "Wikipedia", next you go to "you tube", select the music you want us to hear, copy and past; it's just that simple.
By spreading these investigations around to everyone who shares in the rewards of new music, no one is overworked.
Thank you.
Enjoy the music.
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Bassists and Drummers. Not exactly fertile ground for finding interesting and great Jazz players. Even if they are very good, they would not stand out.(solos excepted) Not their job.
Mingus knew this, that's why he is known as one of the greatest Jazz composers ever.
Cheers |
Funny story about Monk and Miles; Monk didn't take no crap off of anybody under any circumstances, him and Miles had some kind of minor dispute. (having a dispute with Miles wasn't the hardest thing to do). On the record "Bag's Groove", there is a cut where I make the same mistake every time, I say to myself,"That's Monk on piano", wrong, it's Horace Silver. The reason I make this mistake is because Miles told Horace to "Play like Monk right here", and Horace did so well that I still make the same mistake.
But the story get's even funnier, because Miles said he didn't want Monk's "Plinkin and plunkin", and evidently changed his mind before the day was out, because Horace imitates Monk's "Plinkin and plunkin".
I know you got this record; pick out who's playing piano on each cut.
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, i agree on a surface level that you are correct, but if you listen to what a Bassist and drummer are playing behind the frontline, and how they add much more than foundation and beat, and are just as important as lead players. And when all the players are listening to each other; Awesome! The playing of Haden, on bass, and Dejohnette , on drums, is a revelation, on the Metheny/ Coleman recording of Song X. I know this is not a style for you, but I listened to the rhythm section, over and over in the 80's, so this is the only thing that I thought of as a perfect example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d66Ytt2g7ns At first it is like watching the offensive line open a hole in American football, but before long you start to see the beauty of the interior line play. ;) |
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Jeri Brown and Leon Thomas:
Nice enough, but she can't hold a candle to Dee Dee Bridgewater. No sense even mentioning Ella. Leon seems to be stuck in the same narrow range all the time. Does he ever go any lower?
The good ones sound like an instrument when they scat.
Cheers |
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@acman3
Normally I would be amazed at a combination of Pat Metheny and Ornette Coleman, but just yesterday I ran across a CD of Johnny Hodges and Lawrence Welk. They say it worked!
Like you said, just not my sort of thing. I used to try to like DeJohnette, in my early years, but he just didn't play my type of stuff. Just like Keith Jarrett. Just too 'cerebral' for me.
Cheers |
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Hi Acman, just saw your post. It really should be no surprise to anyone that Jaap is going to New York (there are many New York critics with short memories acting surprised/disappointed). They wanted him very badly eight or ten years ago, when Dallas beat them to his signature, and they were very upset about it. Now they are finally getting the guy they wanted back then. He is a great musician and a great fundraiser - as Frogman said, it should be a good marriage, at least for a little while. |
Jimmy Blanton was an influential American jazz double bassist. Blanton is credited with being the originator of more complex pizzicato and arco bass solos in a jazz context than previous bassists. Born in Chattanooga, Tennessee, Blanton originally learned to play the violin, but took up the bass while at Tennessee State University, performing with the Tennessee State Collegians from 1936 to 1937, and during the vacations with Fate Marable. After leaving university to play full-time in St Louis with the Jeter-Pillars Orchestra (with whom he made his first recordings), he joined Duke Ellington's band in 1939. Though he stayed with Ellington for only two years, Blanton made an incalculable contribution in changing the way the double bass was used in jazz. Previously the double bass was rarely used to play anything but quarter notes in ensemble or solos but by soloing on the bass more in a 'horn like' fashion, Blanton began sliding into eighth- and sixteenth-note runs, introducing melodic and harmonic ideas that were totally new to jazz bass playing. His virtuosity put him in a different class from his predecessors, making him the first true master of the jazz bass and demonstrating the instrument's unsuspected potential as a solo instrument. Ellington put Blanton front-and-center on the bandstand nightly, unheard of for a bassist at the time. Such was his importance to Ellington's band at the time, together with the tenor saxophonist Ben Webster, that it became known as the Blanton–Webster band. Blanton also recorded a series of bass and piano duets with Ellington and played in the "small group" sessions led by Barney Bigard, Rex Stewart, Johnny Hodges, and Cootie Williams in 1940-41. In 1941, Blanton was diagnosed with tuberculosis, cutting short his tenure with Ellington. His last recording session was cut on September 26, 1941 in Hollywood. Blanton died the following year after retiring to a sanatorium in California, aged 23. Jimmy Blanton is a bassist I've been hearing about since I can remember, but he was before my time; meaning jazz time when I started collecting records. Since I only collected AB records (AB stands for "After Bird") I don't know if I have him in my collection, but that can be remedied. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrvHckvHj90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPB7hBU6oj0Here are two cuts by Mr. Blanton, You be the judge. Enjoy the music |
Folks...try Bosko Petrovic Quartet - Tiffany Girl...you wont be sorry...you will hear how Croatian jazz band play world class session....and good sound too....
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O–10, the KOB documentary should be required viewing for every jazz fan. I seem to recall a debate here about the relative merit of KOB. If the comments by the various jazz giants in that documentary don't dispel any notions that KOB is "audiophile candy" and nothing more, then I don't know what will. It is a monumental recording in jazz, and the fact that it has been adopted by the audiophile community as a fave should be applauded. Imagine if the closest that audiophile favorites got to jazz were Diana Krall! It's a fascinating video offering many interesting insights. The comments about music are actually pretty basic and, imo, every serious music lover should strive to understand, at minimum, what is talked about in the documentary; I think it would be a great goal. Thanks for posting it. Alex, nice clips featuring Horace Parlan; very good player and probably underrated although he is highly regarded by musicians. Have always loved Stanley Turrentine with his distinctive sound and vibrato. One of the players who "went commercial" but whose work always had a lot of integrity; hard not to love the way he played a pop ballad. I agree completely with Acman3 about the importance and role of bassists and drummers; and love the football analogy. I would even say he is being a bit gentle with his dissent. While the contribution of a bassist or drummer MAY be more subtle than that of the player in the frontline, it may be as important or even more important. I can't imagine Mile's 60's band with any other drummer than Tony Williams and his unique synergy with Ron Carter, or Trane's "A Love Supreme" without Elvin, or the Thad Jones big band with any other drummer besides Mel Lewis? All added, in their way, just as much to the sound of the band as the headliner did. Speaking of Scott LaFaro, what would the whole concept of the modern jazz trio be without his huge contribution in developing the "conversational" style of playing (as opposed to mostly "time keeper") that became the sound of the Bill Evans trio and would influence just about every other jazz bassist that followed? Listen to Herbie Hancock talk about that single cymbal crash in the intro to "So What" on KOB. Great clips of Blanton with Ellington, and while they show how far jazz bass players have come in the virtuosity and conceptual departments, there's not much one can say when the playing is simply "right" for the music at hand; simple, tasteful and great sound. Great stuff. On the other hand Abdul Malik just doesn't do it for me. Very rudimentary player who in my opinion is riding the "lets do something different" wave; probably with a bit of political correctness to support his efforts. Some of the improvisation on those clips is almost embarrasing. It's not the choice of instrument (oud) that's a problem; it's the command of the jazz language that is. Quaint, in a way, for its marriage of jazz and a Middle Eastern vibe, but its not good jazz nor good Middle Eastern. Speaking of marriages, Rok, that of Johnny Hodges and Lawrence Welk is indeed a strange one. I have that record and when I first bought it, I had high hopes for it in spite of the Lawrence Welk presence. Don't get me wrong, I think Welk's band could sound great for what they do, but this just doesn't work. Simply a little too much grease in Hodges' playing for that band's vibe. As much as I hate to say it, I think the problem is Hodges and not Welk. On the other hand, I have always felt you shortchange Metheny. He is a great musician with a very wide range and his partnering with Ornette is really not that much of a stretch. Landing in ten minutes, so want to post one of my favorite bass players (as a sideman): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y8PjvxET91Uhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zgmUWTAhsa8 |
