Is there a Solid State amp that can satisfy a SET guy?

I’ll add another recommendation for Firstwatt, the F5 in particular which is what I had.
I’m into DIY and built a 300B based on ISO Japan transformers, and then built an F5. They both sound excellent.
The F5 has adjustable 2nd harmonic distortion that can be tweaked to taste.
When I measured both, the F5 distortion profile was similar to the 300B

Go check out Derek Sanderson’s Fleawatt chip amps.  He told me a long time ago that several people were trading in their expensive 300B SET amps for his Fleawatt amps and not missing a beat.

i can attest, I recently had a 3 wpc 6B4G SET amp (6V version of a 2A3 tube & supposed to sound identical from all I’ve read about this tube) up against a 3118 chip amp and after hearing it, I could no longer justify owning a tube amp.

There isnt one...yet. I've tried First Watt F2J, SIT2. They come close but not quite there. The best and closest SS amp to SET 300B is the AGD Audion. Give that a try.
I have it and sometimes rotate it with my Berning 300B OTL, Fi 421a, LadyDay 91a+ etc..
But I think you really need speakers that bring out the best in 300B SET. And that means speakers with 98dB efficiency or higher. I highly recommend Rethm speakers.

First watt m2 and sit3 are different beasts entirely. Hard to judge the sit3 based on it. I’d try a sit3 or a J2.

Hi 
intresting tread as I also am looking for poweramp for high efficient L.S. I do however also need balanced circuit and monoblocks.
Have any of you experience with Grandionote: Demone.  Lamm: 1.2 or the hybrid Thrax: Hero.

 Regards Thastum

I have owned a Pass Labs F5 and a friend owned an Aleph 3.Very decent sounding amps if a bit boring.Nothing like a good SET in sound though .Even with a very good 300B preamp driving them.The Bakoons are in totally different league .

@thastum
I have heard Grandinote. A guy who is an importer would bring in things like TAD speakers and such to compare to what we were building.

One day he came in and asked my boss Mike if he’d heard Grandinote, so flight cases were opened up, and a Grandinote music server and integrated (I think it was an integrated) amplifier.

Well I’m always welcomed to come listen to something new, and we all sat there to listen. I wasn’t there for the MSB DAC and amplifier which was apparently the best Mike (my boss) had heard, this Grandinote combination was the best I’d ever heard driving our top of the line speakers.

The detail and lack of noise was exquisite. Unfortunately not in my current budget new. I don’t know if it was top of the line or entry level that I heard, I will tell you they together (DAC and amplifier) were refined and highly resolving.

@mglik, I highly recommend you listen to the Bakoon 13R. I use it with the Cube Nenuphar full range speakers but it drives less efficient speakers like Boenicke just fine as well. It’s also not ridiculously expensive. Here in the UK it’s £5,995 and has bettered other SS amps costing considerably more. It’s unique, and has just received a Red Dot Award for design and a Six Moons Blue Moon Award for sound.

If you would like to know more you can PM me if you wish.

M2Tech Crosby in monoblock config. Balanced, powerful and the sweetest class d I have listened to. Relatively speaking affordable.  Paired with my Zu Druid 6's, they are special.

Boulder amps meet the sonic challenge,  and then some.
So much air, space, delicacy, but combined with epic grunt

Consider FW SIT3 and Pass XA-25.  Both have attributes of SET for me.  My SET is a LM 218 which is based on the 211 tube.  With SIT3 fronted by LTA preamp, I found it very comparable to my integrated SET.  XA25 keeps similar vocal magic while giving a deeper/tighter bottom end and tightening up the soundstage - not by making it smaller but by delineating the space/instruments better.  

like way too many audiophiles, but not most of us here, you want us to know what you paid for what you had and have, without telling us what it is.  Shame on your damaged ego.

I agree with much of the above, a DHT SET amp is a unique beast that's nearly impossible to replicate with SS electronics.  I've seen good suggestions including SS amps designed to produce a "tube" sound, and even OTL.  Let me recommend another way to go (not to get a true SET sound, but to definitely get the magic of tubes but with SS power), and that's a hybrid amp. No, NOT what many call a hybrid these days, which is a SS amp with a tubed input stage.  I'm talking about a true tube amp, with a Futterman based OTL tube circuitry, but with a MOSFET output stage.  Of course I'm talking about Moscode.  I own a George Kaye modified Moscode 401 HR and while the sound is not SET (what else is?), it is very much a modern tube amp, but one that outputs over 200 wpc (and one that's surprisingly easy to tailor to your tastes with a little tube rolling).  Several publications reviewed this amp, but the 6moons article does a pretty thorough job describing it.  

@mglik,

I found the best SS amp for you. It is 40 watts in 8 ohm and 70 watts in 4 ohm.  It is a Lejonklou Boazu (integrated) or they have separates. It is my only SS amp, I have about 8 tube amps. I had a First Watt F7 paired with Pass Labs XP12 at it was good, but did not inspire me to keep it. I borrowed this amp from my dealer and was blown away. It literally takes a few minutes to wrap your head around what you are hearing. It is so musical, transparent and not linear or neutral. My dealer has sold about 8 of these integrated amps now. They are only $4K. See if you can borrow one from a dealer near you. You will not be disappointed. 

The op is all over the map, which is of course his or her right to do. It seems the only setup he or she isn’t considering is the exact setup the speaker designer recommended. If I ever suffer a catastophic brain injury and voice a desire to get into the high end audio business would someone please stage an intervention?

ghasley,
I do enjoy the "honesty" of your posts :-)

Full disclosure: I’m not sure I can identify a SET sound. My ears have not been exposed to enough really good audio equipment. However, I have listened to the German Octave 80 extensively at my local dealer recently, and I like it very much, but way out of my price range. The Octave Also had that big external transformer to aid in handling transients. It played through Blades and Dynaudios.  He just got in a Vinnie Rossi L2i, and I think it is the best sound I have ever heard, playing through the new Dynaudio Confidence 20s. So if you can audition the Vinnie Rossi and your budget can handle it, consider it. Good luck in your Holy Quest! Shrubbery!

Was using SET Dehavilland Aires mono blocks with WE845s (30w per channel) and it was driving Wilson Benesch curves beautifully (87db). 
Incredible sound but felt I needed a little more power for the Curves at times.

A need to simplify my system came up and I ended up with the solid state Lejonklou Boazu integration (40w). Not tubey sounding but the the Dehavillands are not overly either, just extremely revealing. 

The Lejonklou is simple amazing. It just gets out of the way and plays the source perfectly. 

Begrudgingly, the Dehavillands are currently for sale.

I see myself having SETs again someday but probably with some more efficient speakers. With the proper system matching you can't do better than good SETs. IMHO.

I’d like to answer the OP’s original question, "Is there a Solid State amp that can satisfy a SET guy?" (as opposed to what many here seem to think was asked, i.e. is there a SS amp that sounds like a SET amp), since I was able to find an answer suited for myself; that is a resounding YES.

I’ve been a SET guy for many, many years (25+), and loved every minute of it. I’ve ran a variety SET amps based on 845s, PX25s, 300bs, VV32bs, 6C33Cs etc. but in an attempt to simplify my system, reduce heat output, and reduce costs (power tube replacements and electricity costs), I have found joy in tubeville using a Pass Labs XA25 amp (which I think has been brought up a few times in this thread).

I have tried numerous SS amps over the years while I ran my SET amps, and none of them really did it form me, until I put the Pass XA25 in the system. Does it sound like a SET amp? NO. Does it satisfy this SET lover and music lover... absolutely YES. Mind you, I have a tubed preamp (Backert Labs Rhumba) and a tubed DAC (Audio Mirror Tubadour III) in front of the XA25, and result is wonderful. YMMV!

Agreed...in case my previous post wasn't clear.
I'm a SET guy who is extremely satisfied with my SS choice.
Although not a tube sound, it is a new, perhaps different, level of enjoyment.

My new CODA No.16 sounds pretty close to an SET to my ears.

First Watt is great and so is Pass labs. I have a F2 jfet.DMN sound great too. If you could get Dehaviland 845 a they are wonderful Amp kara is great designer. 

[interesting thread] as I also am looking for poweramp for high efficient L.S. I do however also need balanced circuit and monoblocks.  Have any of you experience with Grandionote: Demone.

@thastum   I have the Grandinote Genesi Preamp. It is terrific. I expect the Demone monoblocks are as well. Max is wonderful to deal with. Solid state and balanced, that gets the music right.

Prana has a listing and I'd be all over it, if not for the fact that my speakers need a low, low damping factor.

+1 to @rixthetrick 's post.

I recently went from a very efficient full range driver system to an excellent 3 way system and had to pull out my 2A3 DHT SET Amp and acquired a Coda Class A 18 Watts.

Both Purity Audio Harmonia V2 2A3 DHT Pre and Triode Lab 2A3M were evaluated against my Coda and Full Range Driver Speakers; I would say that Coda get you maybe 75% but those DHT Amps just has the ability to recreate life-like images and delicate textures between your speakers and not to mention the clarity and transparency they offer.

Also, if you want the best of both world; a SS Class A and a DHT Pre is sublime and from my experience and direct comparison, even the 6SN7 doesn’t come close to a 2A3 DHT Pre; the refinement of these DHT Pre are at a different level and of course are system dependent and listeners preferences...

Wig : )

Well, my long awaited Tetra 606s arrived yesterday. The big question was if my 9 watts of 300B SET would power them.
The most consistent comments have pointed out that there is truly no replacement for the SET sound. However, comments that struck a nerve made reference to SS and SET being two different paradigms and that the SET sound was like a sonic screwdriver loosing the focus. Not to mention that one really doesn’t know until one tries. My 9 watts with the 92 dB Tetras sounds beautiful with the proviso that the bass is nicely there although not particularly tight and layered and all else is nicely there although not with particular slam.
However, the SET sound is highly musical and organic.
However, other owners of the 606s have commented that they are capable of all mentioned and more. On a good recording of a film screening using the 606s to play to a large audience, I heard only the MGM lion’s roar. Of the many, many times I have experienced the roar, this recording amazingly stood out. The roar was shockingly “real”, textured and layered. The amps used in this screening were the Bel Canto 500 watt monos. I can never forget how the speakers were grabbed by the amps. And this was in a MP4 YouTube!
In my first post I mentioned the Tetra designer’s recommendation of matching the 606s with the Leema Hydra II amp at 148 watts into 8 ohms and 250ish into 4 ohms. The Tetras go down to 6 ohms but are a pretty flat 8 ohms. They also have simple, low part count crossovers with no resistors. And I don’t listen at very high levels.
Although the Tetras go down to 27hz and have a big sound. It is very tempting to now want to listen to realistic sounding orchestras, etc.! All that with slam and headroom. It would be nice to be able to “dance the speakers around the room”. I think I would enjoy being able to crank the volume without it sounding “too loud”. Think I would get all that with a strong SS amp like the Leema. My inclination is to at least try an amp like the Leema and see if I can appreciate the new paradigm!

Mark Levinson.

I have come to like the 833-A SET which can effortlessly drive Magnepans more than loudly enough. The best way to do this is to build your own 1000 Volt power supplies using 3 Amp 1000 volt rated diodes two in series for twice the Voltage you will be using. Use car batteries to heat the cathodes on the 833-A's with a 0.25 Ohm resistor rated at least 50 Watts to drop the voltage to 10 at 10 Amps. A Hammond 1642SE output transformer is good for 300 ma while the 833-A's draw only 120 ma at zero grid bias. Drive the grid with a headphone amplifier with 600 Ohms transformer output (between the grid and one side of the cathode. If you want, I can help you try this.

"Sonic screwdriver losing the focus".
What does that mean?

Tvad, I agree with your comment.

Get a BEL 1001 and you'll never want to listen to anything else!

Thanks for the info, cal3713. The f4s may be good for Klipsch owners who prefer tubes, but have issues with enough power.

@wig Curious what 2a3 dht preamp you are using... Would love to know.

I created this review and did so because I finally found an amp that bettered my custom made SET amp. It has no sonic signature. It gets out of the way and provides gain to the signal. The warmth comes directly from the instruments themselves. No added fillers needed. I paid for these mono blocks With my own wallet and quite inexpensively. I created my channel to share some amazing products that I have discovered over decades of being an enthusiast. This posting this video is not kosher please let me know and I’ll remove this post.
cheers.
Cherry Amp's DeskTop Maraschino (DTM) Mono Block Amplifiers Reviewed! https://youtu.be/U4TpFf54ZzY

@mglik, I know what you are searching for. I too am a long time 300b SET user. And now looking for a more powerful amp for my Tannoys. The reality seems to be, there is no exact match without a compromise. Solid states that sound good to my ears are QUAD, Plinius and some very old (almost vintage) Mark Levinson, Sansui and the likes. The better option is to find a good tube push-pull amp with zero feedback and triode wiring. Like the Rogue Stereo 100. You get some genuine power and genuine tube sound and genuine flow of music. Many solid state amps simply try to artificially create this sound, which won't work for us.  Another option is to go for really good parallel single ended 300b amps, like the Border Patrol. You retain the SET magic and 300b sound, just a little less pure. Don't go for new age bigger hybrid 300b bottles made by Emission Labs and KR. They all promise more power but they sound too modern and ultimately artificial. Finally the really better amps are the parallel single ended 211 amps from a good designer. But they are very expensive. Don't go for single tube 211, 845 SETs, they sound slow and boring. Only when 211 is in parallel do they behave like 300b or 2A3. Hope this helps 😊

Well, I guess amp topology is one way of looking at it. A shorter path in my opinion is what amp has brought the musicians, voice and instruments into your room for a "they are there" experience?

@ thanasakis
How's Valvet E2SE handling your Kharmas? Is it struggling in any way, do you feel as if something is missing from the sound?
I was in a search for an amp to drive Harbeth P3ESR. They will be sitting on my computer desk (with me sitting 2-3 feet away), so I don't think more power, than what Valvet offers, should be necessary...
P.S. How do you find the sound of your Kharmas? They look quite beautiful, and, based on few youtube videos, they sound terrific as well; very lifelike!

My recommenations would be:

First Watt SIT,
Pass .8 series,
Coda

You're never going to get the 300B warmth you're looking for via SS.  If it existed, it would be the most popular amp on the planet.  Another option would be a LIO DHT pre- coupled to wide bandwidth ss amp.  That's probably my next step.  I've owned Shindo Cortese, Berning 300B Siegfried (selling that was the absolute biggest mistake of my audiophile path), Berning ZH270, Kronzilla, Triode Labs 2a3, First Watt J2, and a bunch that I haven't mentioned.

Pani's recommenations are dead-on and mimic my experiences exactly.  

The Tom Evans amps might also be an option.  I'm using the Vibe/Pulse as my pre-amp into a Triode Labs 2a3 and then some Rethm speakers.

With efficient speakers (99db) my little Dennis Had Firebottle High Output SEP (pentode) has 12 to 17 watts available depending on the power tubes (will work with a lot of options from EL34s to KT150s)...with the 99db 8ohm speakers it never runs out of gas, and is far from "syrupy" or "euphonic" as some describe tubes...simply clean and clear with power and detail for days.

I have been turned off by owning what should have been a really good sounding amp, the Viva Solista 845 based SET. Yes, it was boring compared to my 300B SET. I sold it quickly and went back to the 300B. I also have owned a good parallel 300B amp. Also, not satisfied. It lost a lot of the “magic”.
The more I listen to my new Tetra 606s pushed by my 300B mono blocks the more I love it. I use them every morning for vinyl and every evening for 2 channel home theater. Last night It was a great submarine movie, “Hunter Killer”. All the explosions in the bass were thrilling as they should be. Was it the ultimate experience as with a high powered SS amp, no. Can I live with it, yes. Especially this morning as I delightfully listen to a gorgeous female voice singing Schubert lieder! Could ANY SS amp give me the same delight, no!

mglik,
Interesting to hear about your experience with the Viva 845 amp. I had the same experience with a De Havilland 845. It was a bore and didn't work with any of the 4 speakers that I had at the time even though it was hyped to be very good.
Like you, I had a great experience with an 8 watt 300b SET. Much better and deeper bass than I later experienced with another good EL34 amp.

@cal3713

It’s a Purity Audio Design Harmonia V2; you have a choice of 2A3 or 300B but I prefer a more dynamic sounding tube and chose the more linear sounding 2A3.

I considered the Supratek but that would take up more room on my rack and I wanted a Pre where the DHT were not influenced by other variants tubes, just the purity of the 2A3 by itself : )

www.responseaudiony.com/harmonia-mk2.html

Wig

Seriously considering getting a Bakoon 13R. It seems like the most different SS. Current drive instead of voltage drive. And I pretty much already know that it may be the ultimate headphone amp.
IME very linear and pure is best with headphones. SET sound is too rich. Believe I can get a demo 13R. Very curious about how it will handle my my big speakers. Still do think about a strong SS amp.
But it is absolutely true that 300B SET fans are a strong sub group in Audio. There are strong and real reasons why we are so devoted to our way of amplifying systems. However, I cannot discount the strong and real reasons why maybe the lion’s share are devoted to SS. I am certainly coming to well understand why this is. I will never forget the “realness” of that MGM lion’s roar! Speaking of lions...

I have a Supratek Cabernet 300B preamp.I was using that with a pair of Bakoon 5515M 50 watt monoblock amplifiers which were unfortunately not mine and had to be returned to the owner.That was a wonderful sounding combination .

- Don’t go for single tube 211, 845 SETs, they sound slow and boring.
- Pani’s recommendations are dead-on and mimic my experiences exactly.
- I have been turned off by owning what should have been a really good sounding amp, the Viva Solista 845 based SET. Yes, it was boring compared to my 300B SET.
- I had the same experience with a De Havilland 845. It was a bore

@pani @eaglejo @mglik @roxy54

What do you attribute the above to? Would like to learn what might be going on with respect the amps you found behaving this way and (perhaps) speaker pairing, etc. synergy? Thanks.

@david_ten

I have no experience with 211 or 845 amps, but I would speculate that in **some** cases an explanation of why **some** of those amps may sound "slow and boring" compared to 300B amps derives from something Ralph ( @atmasphere ) has pointed out in the past.

What he has pointed out (and it makes perfect sense to me) is that since the distortion produced by a 300B (or other low powered SET amp) rises dramatically as output power becomes a significant fraction of its capability, while also becoming vanishingly small at low power levels, and since our hearing mechanisms use certain harmonic distortion components as loudness cues, from a subjective standpoint such amps will tend to have a greater perceived contrast between high volume peaks and softer notes.

In other words, dynamics will seem to be enhanced relative to the presentation of many other kinds of amps.

While if everything else is equal (including speaker efficiency and listening volume) that effect will occur to a much smaller degree, if at all, with a more powerful 211 or 845 SET amp, since the amp will be operating at a relatively small fraction of its power capability even on high volume peaks.

Best,
-- Al

@almarg Thanks!

Can I therefore surmise that the 211 / 845 amps are more accurate and more honestly representing the recording, than say a 300B?

Thank you.

@david_ten 

Yes, David, that is a correct interpretation.  Assuming, of course, that the effect Ralph has described is not overshadowed by other variables in the designs of the specific amps being compared.  For example, differences in the quality of the output transformers, since the high voltages at which 211s and 845s operate makes it harder (and more expensive) to produce transformers providing comparable performance to those used in 300B amps. 

Best,
-- Al
 

Hi Al,
I am not technically oriented much.
Only subjectively judge according to what I hear.
I do trust my ears. For me, I believe I know and understand what music sounds like. What I hear in well designed 300B SETs is a sound that comes close to what I hear in real life. It is not only a response through my ears, it affects my nervous system. I am not easy with sound that strikes me as unnatural. When I listen to a nice recording of a beautiful human voice I relax. It is sublime.