Is the Last Record Preservative system a worthwhile investment?
When I adopted the Neil Antin PAVCR manual cleaning method, I soon come to learn that method along with the controlled Solutions produced and Tools used to do the cleaning. Were more than capable of cleaning out historical crud, especially that which was residual cleaning solutions from previous adopted cleaning methods. The PAVCR method has supplied to me, the very best Vinyl I have known, it is now purified as my offered description of cleanliness achieved. |
I'm slowly working my way through cleaning all my records in an Audio System machine, and just came across one with the LAST sticker on the label. Can I clean it like any other record? Will the LAST treatment come off and befoul my cleaning solution? Should I not clean it?
Inquiring minds want to know! |
Using the LAST All Purpose Cleaner with their brushes, along with the preservative and the StyLAST. The difference in sound quality with a good cleaning and the preservative is extremely noticeable. I have 60 year old records and some highly worn records from the 70s that it brought back to life. I listened before and after each time. It really quiets the background noise down. |
According to the website, Last has been available since 1979 and I could find no negative reviews or comments posted on line after hours of searching. All reports were similar in that the sonic signature was not degraded with use and albums treated maintained decades long quiet play. I have been using it for about 5 years. I have found no short term adverse affects. I clean all records first ultrasonically and then reclean and rinse x 2 with ultraclean water and vacuum dry with my VPI, then apply the LAST. On the LAST website, Walter does discuss a "hairball on the stylus" that he felt after microscopic inspection was the mold release agent leaching from the vinyl which diminishes after several plays. He also recommends reapplication if ultrasonic cleaning is done after the product is applied. |
@blueranger , I am curious why you only use Gruv Glide on your most worn records? I was/am a big fan of Sound Guard back in the day. The LPs I treated are still new looking and sounding. I was hoping Gruv Glide was a vert similar product. As for my experience with LAST, I used it foe a bout a year after each LP I cleaned. I examined my stylus under a microscope after playing a few LPs and saw no residue. I did hear subtle improvement in sound and noise. Nothing earth shattering; but as has been said it's intended to be a preservative more than a sound enhancer. So time will tell. The reason I've stopped using it is because I now clean my LPs with a formula with Turgitol, similar to that used by the Library of Congress. That formula is said to leave a molecular layer that reduces static (and friction?) on the vinyl surface. It improves sound quality noticeably and seems to be lasting (no pun intended) quite well, so far - I only started using it at the end of 2016. The reason I don't continue using LAST is that I don't know how it will react with my home brew. Which would I apply first? So if anyone has any experience, .... |
My experience with Last initially was not good. I found it really deadened the sound, the dynamics of the recordings. It seemed to make them a lot darker. I was cleaning the older records I had purchased more recently and that had surface noise. I used the GEM Dandy record cleaner and then followed with ultrasonic bath and then Groove Lube, which must be used very sparingly and according to instructions. Then, at the end, I applied the Last. I found the initial results quite disappointing to say the least. The records were, however, much quieter and the surface noise was pretty much gone. The Groove Lube left a bit of gunk on the stylus but I removed that easily enough on each side with the Magic Sponge that's been recommended here many times for stylus cleaning. I got busy and then came back a few weeks later and listened to other LPs I had cleaned with this method. Well, after waiting several weeks, the Last preservative was no longer imparting any kind of unwanted sonic effects. The sound had changed completely back to normal. I still have not applied it to the brand new records I've purchased, but I will say that I will continue to use it for older LPs and I might try it on new ones after I've had more experience with it. So I would recommend it then so long as one gives it enough time to fully settle in. |
If any who haven't tried Last lives in or near West Palm Beach, Florida, I would be happy to have you bring a record or two over to the house and I will treat them for you. You can listen before and after treatment and decide for yourself if you hear a difference. My system is state of the art and will reveal all. |
Yet another happy user since 1982 here. I can't say that it improves the sound quality, but it does drop surface noise near to the limit of whatever the vinyl material can deliver. That might seem like it improves the sound simply because the S/N ratio is maximized. I have found LAST works quite well on all the vinyl I've purchased pressed from ~1955 to the present. As others have noted, the key is starting with a clean, dry surface. If the vinyl is new, I use the LAST Power Cleaner (mold release remover) first, then I use an ultrasonic cleaner with distilled water and a splash of LAST machine cleaner solution for everything, new or used. Another wet clean with LAST cleaning solution and my trusty Discwasher brush, a thorough dry and then the surface is ready for preservative. If you've gotten everything right, you can actually feel the preservative bonding with the vinyl while applying it; the brush seems to move with less friction. I'm sure that's due to the molecular effects visible in the micrographs referenced above. FWIW, I've also used Stylast and the LAST stylus cleaner since they became available. I've never identified any audible difference, but I can say I've never worn out a stylus. The magnets have gone south first. From my perspective, a good value proposition for a modest investment in happy listening. |
Been using both LAST and STYLAST, since they hit the market. Bought my first VPI RCM, about the same time (a 16 and now I own a 16.5) . Never have seen the first sign, of anything gathering on a stylus. Never experienced the first problem, regarding my records. The ones bought back in the, "Golden Years" of vinyl, still sound excellent. Some were played repeatedly, every business day, for years, to demonstrate my systems. Always clean(ed) and treat(ed) them, before the first play. Just another happy camper! |
I swear by it. Have used it on many of my records since 1967 or so when it first came to my attention. First I clean the record using LAST cleaner, then apply the LAST solution. The results, particularly on new records, is to completely eliminate high-frequency grunge on dynamic passages, if any exists. I have records, including some used frequently as test records over the year, that still sound as new. FWIW, I also used LAST stylus preservative and my AC-2 is still going strong. Same principle as the record preservative. I'm not sure it is still sold. I have noted that the LAST record preservative I bought most recently seems to evaporate more rapidly than back in the old days. May have been a formula change along the way. |
I used it as directed and it left a residue on my stylus (which caused audible distortion!) so I washed the record and the stylus and never used it again. Needles are way too fragile for messing with except for normal dusting- IMHO. My hands are just not steady enough unless I remove the arm and take the whole thing over to my desk with a strong light source. So I have an entire pint of this stuff if anyone wants it (with the applicators, too.) It did not harm the record, but my needle, if it's anything like yours, is almost invisible to the naked eye. Back in the good old days I could clean it off (gently) with my finger... |
@rshak, First was made by Nitty Gritty, but was discontinued because some chemical it contained was banned by the EPA. It was as you said, a heavy-duty pre-cleaner, made to remove mold release from new LP's before they were cleaned with regular cleaning fluid on their RCM's. My first (no pun intended ;-) RCM was a Nitty Gritty, but I found it lacking. I much prefer my VPI, but the newer Okki Nokki, Pro-Ject, and Clearaudio machines look really good too. If a single application of Last is done to an LP, I can't see any reason that LP would develop noise months later. If anything, I would expect the opposite. Maybe it's the snake oil in the Last ;-) . |
bdp24 - When I used Last, I first cleaned the records on a Nitty Gritty 2.5i. If I recall correctly, I also used a fluid named "First" which was a "pre-cleaner" and, I think, was made by the folks who made Last. On Last-treated records, the surface noise I heard developed only some months later. Who know the reason(s)? Maybe I got a bad batch? I own several thousand LPs and haven't run into this problem before or since. In any case, I now steer clear of Last. |
I can't find this answer. How many records does a 2 oz bottle treat??? Thanks for everyones opinion. I might just treat my most frequently played records @blueranger Here it is straight from the source........ https://thelastfactory.com/last-record-preservative/how-many-records-can-i-treat-with-the-cleaner-an... |
Thanks for the link to Larry Archibald's Stereophile review, has2be. I had seen those microscope pics of Last treated and untreated grooves, but it was years ago. Michael Fremer has also reviewed Last, and is an enthusiastic endorser. You know who else is? The snake oil suckers at The Library Of Congress, who were early adopters of Last Record Preservative. As my momma use to say about anything uttered, consider the source. |
Blueanger, I never buy the 2 oz. bottle and never counted the number of records, but know how you can find the answer as to the number of records you can expect to treat per bottle. You can call Last and they will tell you or you can call a retailer like Music Direct. With each bottle a supply of applicators and sheets of sticky labels are supplied. Every record you treat gets a sticky label and it is uncanny how the number of labels always works out to be just enough to last through a bottle of the stuff. So it is a simple matter to count the number of sheets supplied with each bottle. There are 16 labels per sheet. The Last Factory can be reached at 925-449-9449 or www.thelastfactory.com. Or www.musicdirect.com |
This is a response to whart's questions: Clearly the demonstration I described constituted a severe test. Nobody is going to repeatedly play the same record over and over again in normal circumstances. The point of the demonstration was simply to prove that the stuff reduces record wear even in this extreme case. These days I buy new records and used records. Currently every record gets a first cleaning on my VPI HW17 RCM followed by the application of LAST on the record. I have experimented by not applying Last to a record first, and can report that records play more quietly after the Last Record treatment is applied. This is true for both new and used records. Obviously I like the stuff. |
From 1982 but reprinted recently... https://www.stereophile.com/content/last-record-preservation-treatment |
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One successful (allegedly) test is hardly proof of this product’s efficacy.@wcfeil Then , as asked , please explain why your claim of snake oil supersedes all the other’s experience and demonstration(s) beyond just your insults or what seems to be nothing more than your empirical opinion... I’m waiting for it with all sincerity, if you have something to teach us , then explain it..if your just being argumentative, then own it. I gave my experiences with it, and had no negative comments or complaints because I never experienced anything but the same positive ones many many others have. You have done nothing , nothing but dismiss and insult and claim its snake oil that doesn’t do as it’s claimed to do ,that others do support it does. You should be able to effectively explain what you claimed here without insults at a minimum............Your actually acting more like a troll than someone who is informed to explain position.... |
Actually , its the weakest act to be simply be spreading a negative for the simple sake of it especially knowing you can’t back up your negative claims and being so transparent to use insults when challenged to simply supply even some experience or reasoning. A negative can be proven actually, sadly ,you just proved yourself to be just that , ..... |
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I wonder if the demonstration @billstevenson described put the records in question to more of a test than normal play. The data on vinyl recovery after play is scant. I don't use LAST, but there are plenty of records I've purchased over the years, some as part of collections, that were treated. I've had no issues with any of those. Since LAST has been around a while, before RCMs were in common use, was the practice to treat the record when new, before playing (or cleaning)? Most of the records I've been buying for the last several decades are not new. But, some new records that I do buy seem to need a play, even after cleaning, to settle in; whether that's the result of no dehorning or something else, such records tend to be quieter after an initial play. Perhaps that doesn't matter in the use of the LAST. Do those who use LAST apply it to used records or records that have been played? |
Still waiting for your reasoning , you made a claim , I simply asked you to give something more than negative words and insults, but you seem to be at a loss for an intelligent solution to communicate reason to understand what it is ...at least beyond the insults anyway ... but that’s something a keyboard helps the meek pretend with, that their bravado is real and consequence is a unicorn ...... Glad to see its working so well for you,.................. |
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Of that I’m sure , and I bet your 60+++ ears and memory are just as fresh and accurate too.... (eyes rolling), snake oil actually was a fraud because the product had no snake oil in it , that was the crime, .... neither does the last..... More feel it works than those that just opine with little experience, I have about 8700 lps and many, many, over 60 years old too. I’ve noticed something others have over time , you can’t , as you’ve already dismissed it and it seems with nothing more than words... So can you explain why its just "snake oil" , instead of the chemicals Davies claims are used and how they work so we all can understand your claims vs his products ? Seriously waiting for one of the few to give supportive reason to the negative claims with some tangible explanation to support it. Its one thing to not believe something personally, its another thing to bash what you don’t believe with a few words and no lasting experience or reason that supports the negative claim . Bill Stevenson’s recollection of that sales guys demonstration showed it worked at abating surface noise that a 1000 plays on a untreated record rarely if ever lives to see zero noise that was’t there 60 years ago...even if you can’t hear it...those CD guys sure can............. |
