Is great sound possible through an on-board, MM phono stage?
I’m considering simplifying down to an integrated amp and curious whether it’s possible to get great sound from an on-board MM phono stage. In the past, I have felt that it’s tough. I ran a Shindo Masseto’s on-board MM stage through a Hashimoto SUT, for example, and it didn’t measure up to my Coincident phono stage. Indeed, the whole business of runnng an interconnect to an external SUT to another interconnect to a tonearm is something I’d love to avoid. Are there any folks out there who felt they’ve found a winning combo with an MM or MI cartridge? Or an SUT combo that’s truly quiet, with a massive soundstage, great dynamics, and smooth performance that doesn’t break the bank? Integrateds i'm considering include the Audio Note OTO SE Signature phono, the Leben CS600, or possibly a Linear Tube Audio integrated.
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Corelli -- it's funny you post this as the AN OTO SE Signature with Phono is really what is inspiring this post - hearing such great things about it! But which cartridges and/or SUTs to pair it with? Are there some excellent MMs or MIs you'd recommend? Will I need to trade my beloved Kuzma 4Point in for a lighter mass arm so I can start playing around with vintage MMs? Many thanks! |
@cfluxa Wish I could give you more insight into this unit. Ironically I was on the AN site early this am and that amp captured my attention. Thought it looked like a great all in one solution with the right speakers. The high quality parts, ability to upgrade and modify--looks like a blast! Those on this forum whose opinion I respect speak highly of the AN kits. |
Yes, can sound great, and then you get the simplicity and conveniences of integrated remote control, but You are wise to seek comments about SPECIFIC models, I always advise return option for any phono stage, or anything with built-in phono, SUT .... The stories of people churning Phono are aplenty. And, for MC, flexibility for future cartridge(s). To your specific question: my Office System, a modern Tube Integrated: Luxman SQ-N150 has both MM and MC built-in. I am using the MM, extremely happy with it’s sound. Liking both AT440ML and Shure V15VxMR with Jico SAS on boron. That solves any MM cartridge. I have not used/heard it’s MC stage. You would be restricted to a cartridge that works with it’s single non-adjustable specs: .33mv sensitivity; 100 ohms input impedance. Co-incidentally it would be good for my 2 MC Cartridge’s, but they are downstairs. One is in a removable headshell, I should bring it up here, let you know how I like it’s MC input. I/you can always use a SUT for any MC, and then continue to use the Luxman’s MM via that SUT. MM Pass is a wise feature for a SUT. ........................................ This Luxman is only 10 wpc, it is just enough for my office. Temp hookup downstairs to test it, it sounded very nice downstairs, however not enough power for that larger space. I have read only good things about other and more powerful Luxmans, but never heard them myself. .................................. My other phono experiences are: Current Main System: Vintage McIntosh mx110z Tube Tuner/Preamp with 2 MM Phono Inputs, totally love it. Vintage SUT Fidelity Research FRT-4 to mx110z (MM Pass, 3 inputs, 4 MC optional load/xf). I get to use any of my 3 arms thru the mx110z MM. Prior: Fisher Tube Receivers: 500C and 800C, both very nice MM Phonos). I traded the 800C with Bill (met him here) for the TT I am using in my office, Mitsubishi Vertical LT-5V. I’ve made many changes in the main system, one day I should bring the 500C up, have a listen to it’s 7591’s, it’s gotta be better than ever. Now mx110z to a modern Cayin using KT88’s. Mcintosh SS Preamp C28 (sold to get the tube mx110z). I did not like it’s MM Phono; the dinky optional built-in Phono Stage in the TT, AT120 sounded better (not as good as mx110z) Tried Cambridge Duo Phono in my office: cold, sterile, uninvolving, like C28, sent it back Pyle $14. compact in-line MM Phono sounded better to me than the Cambridge, like the AT120’s built-in one, surprisingly nice, not great. Used it here with Chase Remote Line Controller and Carver SS Cube until I switched to the Luxman. Carver was nice, powerful, compact, but the Luxman Tube Integrated is definitely better sound. |
I have a Luxman Cl-38 preamp with integrated phono stage. Not sure if it is great, but very very good. If the power is adequate you might consider the LX 380 http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=16 |
glennewdick You don’t need a SUT for MM or MI, Assuming you have only 1 MM Phono Input (preamp or integrated): IF you have 1 arm with removable headshell, and a few cartridges, one being a MC, then a SUT for the MC with only 1 input will do: IF it has MM PASS, then you can go back and forth with headshells with either MM or MC cartridges. Tonearm > SUT; SUT > MM Phono Input, no need to change wires, just switch the SUT to PASS when it is receiving a MM signal (it bypasses the internal transformer(s). IF you have more than 1 tonearm, and only 1 MM phono input, you can use a SUT with more than 1 Input and MM PASS (bypass the internal transformer(s). That way it becomes a tonearm switch, you keep using your preferred MM Phono stage for each tonearm. My case, 3 tonearms: 1st fixed MC Stereo; 2nd fixed MM Mono; 3rd removable headshell (either MM Stereo or MC Stereo), 3rd arm: either one of the SUT’s 4 optional loads for headshell with MC; or switch the SUT to Pass if using a headshell with MM. I use MM Pass for the Mono arm. I use MC selected load for the fixed MC arm. .............................................. this FRT-4 is expensive, they show up for much less, but it shows it’s features https://www.ebay.com/itm/164633673789?hash=item2654ee803d:g:WLUAAOSwcnVf-M6S much better price, seller might take an offer, looks in great shape https://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=u1000833304 .............................. |
lewm You wouldn't have a SUT unless you have a MC cartridge. It's cables go to the rear of the MM Phono you will use for the needed EQ. To get in the back, and move cables each time you want to play a MM (stereo or mono) cartridge is not good practice, sometimes quite difficult as well. Thus, get a SUT with PASS, play any MC or MM thru it, never need to change cables. |