Yeah it may be better than digital. But come on. 3K+ for a cartridge. Cleaning machines. Preamps. VTA adjustments. noisy records. expensive software. By the time you get it all set up you are ready to just turn on the tv and watch Sportscenter. Is there any alternative?
i swore off digital verses analog threads a year ago.....but i guess i can't help myself.
yes; vinyl has extended frequency response; likely similar to high rez digital. but the measured extention is not the issue; it's that vinyl does not use filters that muck up the phase in the highs. when correct phase is combined with considerably greater data density (not infinite....just lots more) the difference in regards to high freqency reproduction and overall degree of realism is dramatic favoring vinyl.
the reason DSD/SACD sounds more natural and vinyl like than PCM is it's more benign digital filter.
is vinyl anoying? is it worth it?
when i have visitors we always enjoy the digital; after about 45 minutes i throw on an Lp and usually that's the end of the digital listening......not to say the digital is not very good and satisfying.
the other day a friend was over. i put on the 45rpm box set version of Led Zep's 'Whole Lotta Love'. afterwards he just sat there and kept saying WOW again and again. i wish digital could do that......but it just can't.
THe only experience I have with vinyl was though my parents collection when I was a kid. I was fascinated with the turntable and I think that is what really hooked me into Audio toys in general. As i grew older I never got into the, but just focused on digtal sources. Therefore I have no experience in finding good vinyl, but one question i have to you all with big collections: are they all purely analog or are there some that have been digitized at some mastering step, before conversion back to analog for the final pressing. If there are some DDA, or ADA LP's out there I wonder if any of you have compared them to DDD CD's and if so how did that sound? To me it would be a blow to the whole analog vinyl paradigm to have any "D" step in the chain at all; from a purely objective viewpoint it seems like you might end up with the downsides of digital (quantization error and others) encoded into the analog LP, as well as the usual vinyl playback issues. Anyway this is just a mild curiosity I have. I see all these LP's in place like music direct and I wonder how many of those are really digital with an analog wrapper? I still love the idea of the turntable and myabe some day I will own one just to bring back the very fond memories of playing with my dad's system in awe.
"Yeah it may be better than digital. But come on. 3K+ for a cartridge. Cleaning machines. Preamps. VTA adjustments. noisy records. expensive software. By the time you get it all set up you are ready to just turn on the tv and watch Sportscenter. Is there any alternative?" Gregadd
LOL, you do get up to make your own sammich, or wait for delivery? ;)
Apparently you have spent too much time reading the audio mags and threads by the analog BIG BOYS. Great analog can be done very well on a very modest budget. As far as the tweaking, cleaning etc. You can be just as anal about that as you want to be, but usually your efforts are rewarded.
The world is full of great vinyl that can be had for $1 or so. Sure, you can't sit at home in your recliner and find them, but the hunt is alot of the fun for those of us who enjoy such things. There is alot more pride of ownership when you have to search for and find some truly amazing vinyl for next to nothing. Much more so than left clicking on your mouse and waiting for the mailman to bring it to you.
There are also some very nice cartridges in the $150 or less range (Denon 103, 110, 160, AT440MLa to name a few). Very good DIY phono transformer stepup devices can be built for $150 or less.
You mention cleaning machines. I built a DIY RCM for $50. It may not look like a $700 machine, but it does the exact same thing. It sucks the suspended crud off the vinyl. Add $50 for fluids, $40 for brushes and viola, clean records. (The misnomer of vinyl being full of pops and tics is BS)
I think you would be surprised at how musical some of the vintage turntables can be. $500 or less spent wisely will be very satisfying for most. Again, it all depends on how deep in your pocket you want to go. My $200 Thorens would probably surprise you.
I would imagine that most of what I mentioned above probably does not appeal to you. Nothing wrong with that. But some of us still have the instinct to hunt, explore and build. Others prefer to stay home waiting for dinner.
I won't get involved with which sounds best, (you already said it with your first sentence) as that is for each to decide for themselves. But the premise that vinyl is too expensive, noisy and troublesome to persue just isn't the case. It can be done very well with very little investment.
When I am in a wheelchair and eat my meals thru a straw, I will then reluctantly convert all of my listening to digital. ;)
Sorry for this one I forgot to include this in my last post, but do you think the "wow" factor folks have when they hear analog is partly from surprise--that "old technology" can sound as good as it does? Either way there is something intangible about vinyl.
I have to say yes, it is worth it. I have decided to continue to tweak and improve my analog system. For me it is the whole experience of finding stashes of RCA Shaded dogs and original issues of artists that I enjoy. I don't feel that every album I listen to is better than some digital offerings, but when it is, I find it so engaging. There is something about playing a 45 year old album for my children. My 11 year old boy came up to me the other day and stated that I "may have something here with this turntable." This is a hobby to be enjoyed.
Greg, you frequently go see sports live ... however if you actually liked music you'd go see opera, recitals and concerts frequently instead. Hence, vinyl is too much trouble for you.
Now you start this thread on the analogue board to take a little side swipe at folks who do enjoy music to the level where the additional activities and cost associated with vinyl is of no consequence. Far from making any vinyl-phile think differently, all you are achieving is demonstrating ignorance.
As I said before. If you do not really care much for music, CDs are fine. Vinyl is for people that really like and enjoy music to a high degree. You obviously don't.
My daughter is a good example of how to answer this question. She is 19 and loves music. She grew up listening to music in various medias(radio, television, vinyl, satellite, CD, MP3, downloads, etc). Her download and CD collection puts my modest vinyl collection to shame. I gave her my michell gyrodec and a few lp's, I recently purchased a maplenoll(tweakers delite)and had the gyrodec just gathering dust. She now goes to yardsales, antiques shops, pawnshops collecting vinyl. Her taste are varied so she has records from the 30's to present. I ask her why, she said the vinyl makes her appreciate the music more and it is more intimate. The sound is much better than the most of the downloaded music and in her opinion has more passion or depth than her CD's. She readily says the vinyl is more timeconsuming and is a little fussy but when she is at home and has a choice she breaks out the records. I have quite a few CD's that I listen to in my car and have done side by side comparisons with my vinyl rig and feel the vinyl is better. I have a few SACD recordings of my favorite LP's and really can not tell too much difference but I personally prefer vinyl. In my opinion, yes the vinyl is more work but worth the hassle.
"Far from making any vinyl-phile think differently, all you are achieving is demonstrating ignorance."
I took no hard position, this is a discussion, not the advocation of a position. "
I have posted on other threads that I enjoyed the "purification ritual"
I also said that digital is like a clone of vinyl it has no soul.
I just think vinyl wears on me. The price and the constant adjustments. Some people love it.
"If you do not really care much for music, CDs are fine. Vinyl is for people that really like and enjoy music to a high degree. You obviously don't.
One thing I do is love music. If I just run across a musician playing music for donations at a subway entrance. If I hear a song on the radio and sit my car after I've stopped waitning for it to end. Listening to a walkman or ipod. I love music and don't care where it comes from.
As I said before. If you do not really care much for music, CDs are fine. Vinyl is for people that really like and enjoy music to a high degree. You obviously don't.
I often agree with your astute comments Pauly. However, this time you have me bewildered.
Surely people who like and enjoy music to a high degree would choose to listen to CD's or whatever popular medium of choice with the most widely available selection.
Gregadd's point about additional cost, limited music selections, and listening time lost tinkering around with previous generation technology is a fair one. Even if, as you contest, Vinyl always sounds better, it is certainly not without major drawbacks.
I have some lossy compressed iTunes music store stuff that sounds great when burned to redbook (despite the lossy compression). This is not always the case but I don't go round slamming iTunes as crap for non music lovers!
Anyone who cares to download Grace Jones "Slave to the Rhythm" Hot Blooded Mix from iTunes (and burn it to a redbook CD to play on their system) will be pleasantly surprised at the recording quality! Go on try it! It may be a bit over engineered but that is the recording engineer not the AAC 128 Kbit per second compression.
Now - try to find this track in a bricks and mortar CD store or try to find it on Vinyl!
So why did I download this poorer quality file?...because I love music!!! - so I do this kind of thing all the time to supplement my library. Music lovers hear something on the radio and bingo they impulsively want to get it. Music lovers often want all the alternate versions of a song/symphony that they like (live, re-mix, 12" monster mix, radio-edit, different venues, different conductors/orchestras etc.)
Given a modest quality Hi-Fi, music lovers realize that the musicians/venue/recording/mastering studio actually has a bigger impact on the sound & musical quality than the media it arrives; tape, Vinyl, CD, or iTunes. Just my two cents from 'ol "tin ears"!
Dear Gregadd: +++++ " One thing I do is love music. If I just run across a musician playing music for donations at a subway entrance. If I hear a song on the radio and sit my car after I've stopped waitning for it to end. Listening to a walkman or ipod. I love music and don't care where it comes from. " +++++
This statement is of paramount importance for the people that care about music. We that love music almost always enjoy the music through a walkman or through a music hall live concerto.
I think ( for what I understand ) that the subject in this thread is if it is worht all the time and money that we need to enjoy the music through analog. I don't let very clear my opinion in what I already posted, well: yes it is worht!!!!!.
The point here is that through digital it is worht too, we can enjoy the music with digital sources too.
IMHO, the analog sound reproduction has several tolerance/obsessive people atittude grade levels. Where are we? is an answer that is different as different people are. I know that you enjoy/could enjoy the music through analog whithin your own grade level of tolerance/obsessive/tweak targets.
There are people that take a lot of time " playing " with VTA/VTF trying to obtain a better quality reproduction, their obsessive/tolerance grade about is really high, higher that your own grade level about.
I don't have very high grade level on VTA/VTF but I'm so high in tolerance/obsessive with distortion/noise on the cartridge signal ( step up transformers, caps, transformers, RIAA accuracy, intermodulation distortions, etc, etc ) or on the tonearm/cartridge matching. I take all the time/money I can trying to be near perfect on those areas for a better quality music reproduction. The best of all is that trying to have better quality music sound reproduction through analog I achieve too a better quality sound/music reproduction in the digital domain!!!!
Like I say: where are you? or you?
I think that all of us that cares about music take all the time/money trying to get better quality music reproduction. Obviously we are limited not only for the time/money that we can have but limited for our know-how/experiences about.
The critical problem with analog/digital music/sound reproduction is when we lost ( or almost lost ) the " energy/emotion " to take the time/money to enjoy the music in our home systems.
Gregadd, I invite you to re-start your energy/emotion on the analog music/sound reproduction.
Paul that is a foolish thought that people who own CD's dont care about music. So my dad has almost 7,000 cd's does he love music? It would be easier to make the stretch that people who ignore CD's altogether dont really love music, seeing how only a fraction of music in the last 20 years has been issued on vinyl compared to digital. Also how could anyone ignore so many great performances of Classical(for example) as there has been no new Classical on vinyl for years. It would be equally easy to assume that if folks have more invested in equipment then music that they dont really love music, they love gear....but thats not always true.....right? Oh my dad also has 3500 or so Albums, so I guess he actually likes music....go figure. Anyway on one last note my father has around $40,000 in gear and atleast $75,000 invested in music, but seeing how most of his investment dollars were spent on CD's.....he isnt REALLY a music lover correct?
"As I said before if you do not really care much for music, CD's are fine. Vinyl is for people who really like and enjoy music to a high degree. You obviously don't."
What bovine feces. Arrogant, pretentious, etc etc. 'ol "tin ears" is right, tin ears or not! You are making a joke, or a point, but surely you are not serious.
Do you honestly think that vinyl sounds more like live music than CD's? If you do you should get out more often to live unamplified events. Both formats are so far from real music that I have heard that any comparisons, IMHO, are rediculous and no more than an exercise in mental masturbation.
FWIW I'm very familar with both formats in well set up systems and with live music as well as practicing musicians with one great notible exception. I didn't actually know Herbert Von Karajan. I assume you don't know who he was - FYI he was a great orchestra conductor from Germany who was very involved with the recording process as well as conducting his performances - announced upon hearing digital that "everything else is gas light".
The vast majority of musicians I actually know couldn't care less about the differences between vinyl or CD's. What ever is convenient will do just fine. Are you thinking that they don't like music or appreciate what they do with their life?
Pauly, here is a challenge for you. Tell us exactly what makes vinyl more enjoyable to "music lovers" than digital or any other format. But do this without using audiophile terms which only apply to the language of 'sound lovers'.
Shadorne, I did express myself incorrectly. One can love music without caring about the quality of sound.
Gregg takes the trouble to go to sport events, so he likes sport. He does not take the trouble to go to opera/recitals/concerts. He even considers spinning vinyl as too much trouble. Hence, he likes music a lot less. I think this assumption is both fair and accurate.
To open this debate illustrates he doesn't get it when it comes to enjoying good sound. Good sound is not worth it to him if it requires even a small amount of effort.
I know a couple of serious music lover who listen exclusively to CD. They are as much music lover as I. But they also spend an inappropriate amount on their gear and software, and they also regularly attend opera/recitals/concerts.
It is not about vinyl per se. Gregg doesn't understand the pleasure audiophile get from listening to good sound. Because he doesn't, the effort, time and money invested in our equipment does not make sense to him. It is in his opinion, not worth it.
In short, he is on the wrong forum.
I took the time to look at your system. I am sure you love music too; otherwise you would never have spent the money you have. However, it is clear we seek totally different things in our enjoyment of music.
For me, I don't want to hear my system. I want to hear the piano. Nothing more nothing less. No amount of convenience will ever make a lesser quality sound worthwhile.
I agree that a comparison with live music is a humbling experience for those of us who take pride in our system's ability to reproduce music with lifelike qualities. What always gets me is the sheer explosiveness of the kickdrum at my local club, even when the band is just warming up. I don't know of any system that recreates this effectively- it is not just a question of 'loud,' or 'dynamic' or 'deep' but all of them, and more. This, at least, has been my experience in a relatively small venue, listening to bands of 4-5 pieces. (Saw James Hunter there Sunday night, terrific show). Classical and larger staged stuff- greater distance, the system seems very capable on massed strings, tympani, horn parts, etc. In fact, it is probably 'better' than real, a hi-fi attribute to make up for others that are missing. Is the vinyl thing like tubes in that both produce euphonic distortions pleasing to the ear? Or a lack of processing? Most vinyl records made in multitrack studios have progressively more processing added in later years- most of the later Beatles recordings are not very good, IMO, for this reason. The early, primitive recordings, and the audiophile ones that deliberately eschew fancy processing- are often terrific sounding, although the repetoire may be limited unless you have tons of used records and/or don't listen to much new stuff. As to musicians being the arbiters of a natural sounding system- I don't think so. I think they listen for something beyond, and totally beside, the sound quality. I too can enjoy music, for music's sake, on a small radio, a cheap car hi-fi, over the Internet or via a plastic boombox. But, when I want to really dig in, I like to fire up a serious playback system. If I were starting from scratch, perhaps digital would make sense. But, I'm not. And, it is amazing what you can pull from those musty old grooves. The best analogy I could come up with is a sort of 'purer' (or 'more involving,'-- you supply the adjective, I'm trying to avoid saying 'better'-- just more 'straightforward' perhaps) experience, in the same way that someone else here, in a different thread, remarked on what driving a 73 RS is like, compared to a modern Porsche. The later car is no doubt the better one for almost all purposes, but there is a good reason why the 73 model is so desirable. I surely wouldn't go so far as to make judgements about who is more serious teh music listener based on the equipment or format- by that standard, the one which points to the musician, we'd all be looking for the equivalent of a compact mini-stack.
Herbert Von Karajan... was very involved with the recording process as well as conducting his performances -
Yeah, so was Leonard Bernstein. That certainly gave us some sonic gems!
If HvK used the sonics of his own DGG vinyl releases as a benchmark, it's no wonder he fell in love with digital. What a pity his magnificent Beethoven performances were all released on second rate Dodgy Grungaphone vinyl.
I love HvK's performances, but his "insights" into the quality of different recording/playback media must be counted as worthless. His own records were unfailingly mediocre.
Chadnliz As I mentioned to Shadorne, I expressed myself incorrectly. I know a couple of 'hard core' audiophile/music lovers that use CD fronted systems.
However, their systems are not set up for convenience, nor are they tight fisted when spending money. Many have no remote for volume and, like me, need to walk across the room to adjust volume. Many of them have spent more on their systems than they earn in a year.
I think people who are happy to sacrifice sound in order to have a little more convenience are not serious about music.
I don't suggest your father is not serious about music. Purchasing 7000 CD he must be very serious.
This enterprise (mixing, recording, listening to sound) is entirely subjective. That's why these questions always have 2 camps (at least). Like www.records (and others in the thread) it's that "$3k" comment that prompts me to jump in.
It's Tuesday afternoon, 4/10/2007, just after 5pm on the East Coast, and I'm home from work about an hour. For the first 45 minutes I was home alone and after a tough day I poured a glass (then a second) of Salice Salentino, then cranked a $1 copy of Southside Johnny's debut album, I Don't Want to Go Home, loud as I could stand it (she can't take much more power, Captain). As the needle of my $150 EDR.9 cart (thanks Raul!) moved through the glorious grooves of this long-time favorite, sending the signal through my $79 TC-760LC phono stage, by way of my $250 1970's Yamaha YP-D8, into my Yamaha RX-V2400 HT receiver (sorry proper audiophiles) and out of my $800 used GMA C-1s I was transported. Back to the days (25+ years ago of my youth), when this LP played while nubile young college friends danced with the powerful innocence and glory of their young years; back to the older bluesmen whose suffering inspired young white artists like Southside to imitate them in awe and deep respect; back to those bars and clubs where I'd watch these guys play. Can CD transport me there too? Sure. Good music transports me.
The wife and kids came home; there's homework to do. Slipped Bill Evans' You Must Believe in Spring under the needle, here in NH where there's still a solid coat of snow in my yard, and let Evans' great combo sooth us all. My daughter said, Dad, no music I have to concentrate. I said, don't worry, this one has no words. By the end of side one, everyone's calmed down. Evans' magic has worked again. can CDs do this. Sure. Good music transports me.
Whatever you do, don't let the snobs intimidate you. Whatever your budget, there's a vinyl rig that can produce pleasing sound. There's so much good music on vinyl. Each of my $1 LPs this afternoon worked their magic.
Now, alas, it's time to get up and put in my fair share of home work. This hour of good music has been a great blessing. I hope you, too, can just relax and enjoy the music. (Thanks Raul!)
Just a thought. After I found that acoustic polarity ("normal" vs "inverted) made a difference in my system, the next thing I discovered was that it made the MOST difference with DG vinyl, CDs, and R-R tape. No idea why. But before giving up on DG, you might try switching the speaker cables (both of them) and see if you can detect a positive difference. Dave
Yes I do go to concerts. Not the opera. I am more into jazz. If invited to opera I would go. After thirty years of audio with declinig income, failing eyesight and clumsy fingers I wonder if it is worht it. It appears it is to most of you guys.
Doug, I agree with you totally about Herbert V. But, my point was that he loved digital and he unquestionably loved music. This must have been an 'exception' to Pauly's proclamation. I'm sure there are many others.
Personally speaking I didn't even care for HVK's music all that much and his recordings of it were even less to brag about, much less. On vinyl or later on digital! So much for equipment freaks, musicians or not. :-)
But I love Bernstein, warts and all. His enthusiasm makes up for a lot of excesses. At least he was never bland.
But forgive me for not joining in the analog v digital argument, its old, stale, and unresolvable. But, IMHO, the differences in formats should not give rise to the arrogant denegration of those who don't share either formats advocates opinions, such as that espoused by Pauly.
Pauly, ROTFLMAO. You love music so much. You must because of all of your proclaimations. But, interestingly you have never posted a thread or responded to anyone who asked a question about music. Do you consider all posts in the music forum beneath you. Or do you just talk about music in the context of your perferred method of reproducing recordings. You must have something to share about music as valuable as that which you share about audio.
Credit must be given where due. You are consistent. No weak kneed recantations here!
Pauly, I must recant. I just read your response to Shadrone wherein you admit to knowing audiophiles who are musicophiles as well as digitalphiles. Apparently not vinylphiles. Good for you. Nice to know that some digitalphiles can love music. Now, what I need to know is how much money and effort a digitalphile must spend to become a music lover. That seems to be the price of admission. :-) Ergo, the rich can enjoy music and sound, the poor can enjoy music only thru vinyl, even cheap vinyl systems. Right? :-)
Paul my post was delayed so by the time it got posted you had talked about your previous statement. But then you go and do it again, if a music lover who is going on 70 years old would like a remote so his ageing body does not have to get up to make small adjustments he isnt a true music lover????? I for example am disabled but I dont have a tube pre with remote, but if I could afford one I would get one as it would help me. Sorry I guess I am not a music lover.
What always gets me is the sheer explosiveness of the kickdrum at my local club, even when the band is just warming up. I don't know of any system that recreates this effectively- it is not just a question of 'loud,' or 'dynamic' or 'deep' but all of them, and more.
The vast majority of what is commercially available has been compressed in the recording, mixing and mastering process(especially drums!) - often little more than 10 db of dynamic range is left. So unless you have an unusally dynamic recording you may never hear that live kick drum sound. I would add that professional audio equipment is specifically designed to faithfully handle the extreme dynamic range and loud levels of real instruments (mostly sound reinforcement gear at concerts and studio main farfield monitors - but believe me, properly set up, these can sound quite realistic, even on a kick drum.)
Newbee, there is a price of admission, but it is more than just money.
Anybody that really likes music would want to hear it reproduced in the most accurate and natural way possible. Setting up a system to do that invariably takes time, effort and money. Anybody that feels that it is not worthwhile spending time, money and effort in this endeavor is not really serious about music.
All things equal, a CD fronted system cannot match an analogue system. Never has, never will; for all but the very lowest budget.
My apologies for not posting on the music forum. I wasn't aware it was mandatory ...
Paul, So long as we are really only talking about which format can produce the highest quality sound we have nothing to argue about.
I just snagged some tickets to hear MTT do M7 in SF - Mahlerphiles eat your heart out!. To get ready I'm going to have to put his previous recording on one of my CDP's. If I was going to hear a performance done by Levine, I'd have to get out my LP of his performance. For me, that is all audio is really about, giving us pale but often satisfying sonic images of what a live performance might be like if we could attend.
Do post about music. The one thing this hobby really needs is an infusion of enthusiasm for music, especially jazz and classical. It won't get more popular if we just talk about audio.
Chadnliz you are missing my point. For a normal abled person, listening to vinyl has a very small amount of effort over CD clamp LP, dry brush the LP, the queue the arm, lower the arm, walk back to chair. Somebody that will consciously accept lower quality sound to eliminate this very minor effort, is simply not serious about music.
Each person has limits to the amount of time, effort and money they can spend on something they are passionate about. If you have mobility problems and either totally unable to adjust, or have great difficulty at adjusting a non-remote preamp, it makes no sense not having a remote.
For a normal able bodied person, you are not serious about music if you purposefully get an inferior preamp instead of a superior one for no reason other than convenience of a remote. However, if all things are equal, then I'd get the one with remote without question.
I normally build my own gear. A remote attenuator cost about $500. I can buy better sounding manual stepped attenuator for $100. Which do I buy? $400 can buy some very nice capacitors. Hence, no remotes near my system ... The small inconvenience of the manual unit is worth the better sound.
+++ So long as we are really only talking about which format can produce the highest quality sound we have nothing to argue about. +++
Newbee, that isn't the topic of the thread. Superiority of vinyl was accepted but rejected as a medium because of inconvenience.
+++ For me, that is all audio is really about, giving us pale but often satisfying sonic images of what a live performance might be like if we could attend. +++
My, that is sad. I don't claim my system can produce an identical reproduction of the real thing, but it sure gets me 'there'. Not pale at all.
+++ Do post about music. The one thing this hobby really needs is an infusion of enthusiasm for music, especially jazz and classical. +++
The best live performances I have attended has been in my own home as an audience of one. And that is not something I care to share.
"Newbee, that isn't the topic of the thread. Superiority of vinyl was accepted but rejected as a medium because of inconvenience."
I have not rejected vinyl. Just wondered if it is worth it. Obviously some think it is, some don't. This isn't little league where eveyone gets to play. Somebody has to be right, somebody wrong. You can buy a ticket to whatever show you like.
Gregadd, So long as I can still be considered one who loves music, if I had to choose one format it would be vinyl. But I would never have voted nor even participated but for Pauly's voting me and others like me out of the 'music lovers' club because we did not worship analog sufficiently for him.
Ironically though I recently put away my vinyl system (Oracle/Benz/ARC SP10) because the majority of music I wanted to hear was on CD's and not on LP. My LP's were culled down to less than 400 keepables, most of which were kept for 'reference' and nostalgia, and my CD's well over 5000. My interest in new music didn't stop when they stopped recording in analog. Just didn't have room any longer for both systems. The only thing that the two systems had in common was the speakers. And, FWIW, they both sounded pretty fine IMHO.
Hey cut Pauly some slack! He's only got into vinyl this century and he's still in the neophyte "I can't believe how good this sounds" stage. Give him some time and there is a chance that he might evolve to a more tolerant and open minded state of mind. I can only interpret his extreme statements in this post as a sign of his current immaturity. Remember, there was a time when all of us thought we knew everything.
+++ To suggest that anyone not willing to commit to analog music reproduction cannot be truly passionate about music is completely without merit.+++
I guess some could read my post and conclude that the intent was as you state above. These would be the same people that necessitated the 'content is hot' warning labels on Starbuck cups.
Thanks Tvad, I was going to respond to Pauly's ignorant point of view but you go there first. My daughter listens almost exclusively to music on her ipod or car radio. While she isn't an audiophile by any stretch, to suggest she isn't a music lover is idiotic. I hear stuff coming from her room and ask who is that? Then I buy it.
6 months ago Paul wrote: "I cannot really explain what it is about vinyl and to be honest, I probably wouldnt be able tell the difference in a blind test. What I can say is that over the past three or so years I am spending more time listening than I ever have, so there must be something to it." So you dont think you cant tell Vinyl from Digital, yet you can tell that people with remotes and no turntable are not "true" music lovers?
+++ So you dont think you cant tell Vinyl from Digital, yet you can tell that people with remotes and no turntable are not "true" music lovers?+++
My my, now you are doing research on my old posts? Sad.
I can tell the difference between digital and analogue. With digital I get listener fatigue and normally lose interest in listening after about 10 to 15 minutes. After 30 min I will have earache and would not be able to listen any more.
Listening to analogue I can listen almost indefinitely without any fatigue. While I have some theories why this is, I simply not sure exactly why that is. It is something that a number of other audiophiles experience also.
As for telling people who have remotes and no TT are not true music lovers; well that is a fabrication of you fertile imagination. I think if you read my posts youd know what I did say, including saying that for all things equal I would most certainly choose a preamp with remote.
Mikelavigne, That is REALLY weird you say that about the zeppelin re-masters, Just the other day I put on Zep II with the 200 gram 33's (Whole lotta love first track)Which I did not try out until about a week ago, and Whoa is what me and a friend were saying as well, its so much more explosive and the drum track especially sounds wide open and un-compressed, and the vocals are just ripping thru like its live, very different than any digital counterpart especially on certain bands..
I have found Zeppelin, Sabbath, Beatles, and many others cannot sound as real on CD as the vinyl versions,, But there are Excellent Digital recordings but mostly of much newer Rock bands.
Yes I did just upgrade my cartridge, but what of it? I have always had a vinyl rig, starting with a Rega P2 and eventually moving to my SME. But even if I couldn't swing the SME, I would still have a turntable of some sort. In some ways there has never been a better time to get into vinyl - there are lots of very good and not very expensive turntable/arm/cartridge combos that play music very well.
At the end of the day, if you have the software, or want to give a shot "just because" then I think it's a worthwhile endeavor. And you can buy a satisfying vinyl rig for under 2K, if you shop carefully.
Undertow, the 200 gram Classic Records reissues are very good.....i bought them 4 or 5 years ago when they came out. it was the best i had ever heard LZ.
then came the Box Set with the first 4 LZ albums boxed together with a 45rpm test pressing of 'Stairway'......i bought 3 complete sets just to make sure i had a 'lifetime' supply of 45rpm 'Stairway'.
then last summer i bought the complete LZ Classic 45rpm box set. if you get a chance to listen to it.....it will blow your mind.....and the difference between the 33 and 45 is huge.....sorry to say.
yes; in 1971 i was younger......but for music quality.....these are the 'good ol' days'.
side note; one of the engineers for Led Zepplin II, Chris Huston (his name is on the bottom right side of the inside cover), was the acoustical designer of my room and stayed overnight as a guest in my home during the room project. that evening playing music which he had produced and enginered was one of the most fun listening i have ever done. he had more than a few great stories to tell about recording LZ and others.
Hey real quick does anyone use battery power supply for Phono Stage? I have a Musical Surroundings Phonomena wich I got at cost, I can also add the DC power supply at cost wich would put both at just over retail for stage alone. I am not a rich man so I try to make the most out of my money, is DC power going to make a big change? If anyone actually uses this exact combo I would be grateful for impressions, thanks
Don't worry TVAD. I have not found any amp I like better than the 401hr. But I will have a lot of fun finding a vinyl front end. Maybe I'll even get a Loricraft record cleaner. By the time the weather turns cold I'll be back in the saddle. "The good Lord willin' and the creek don't rise."
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