Is a GREAT turntable under $2000 possible???

I'm sure they sound amazing too! @tot

@knollbrent 

Having recently downsized to 1/3 of what I was used to 
for my audio space I choose the Piega premium 501's which
are quite compact yet impressive.

@totem395  congrats on the Piegas! Just getting them? What model are they?

@lewm chakster has hit me hard with Vulcan mind meld but gotta say, I'm super happy with his suggestions and purchases. This Luxman is a beast of table. Two arms! Minty condition from 1978ish. Regarding the Zu speakers. Zu ain't happening in my house, not with the Piegas running show :)

knollbrent
 
Just moved into a smaller room and also went with 
some Piega speakers although not having that wonderful
coax ribbon.
Still breaking them in as we speak and need to proceed with 
some acoustic treatments. Can't say enough of the Swiss 
build quality!

Chakster is using his Vulcan mind-meld on you. Zu speakers next.

System update!

Loving the 1200 GR and the lehmann audio black cube se ii phono pre is not too shabby for the price but am upgrading soon to the JLTi phono pre from Australia. 

Drum roll please.....

I'm a 2 turntable guy now! I just bought a minty vintage Luxman PD-444 TT from the late 70's. A 2 armed sucker too! I'll be putting on a vintage Victor UA-7045 with vintage Victor X-1lle cart to start off. 

Thanks again everyone for the great recommendations!!!

@trelja  I do the love the Piegas. I was able to get them for a 1/3 of their new price. I don't want to imagine a day without them. They're special, legends no doubt. Adding another fatty mac, 800 watts each, will take them to the promise land. 

The only reason I'm even thinking of any changes is because it does sound so good. With the recent introduction of my C2200 McIntosh preamp (storage for 7 years) the Piegas again evolve now more than ever with the vinyl. To sum it up. That's why. The system sounds more extraordinary than ever and I just got started in the vinyl world. Looking to see how deep the rabbit hole goes :)

The MoFi cart is fantastic in my opinion but it's my first cart.It doesn't make want anything else but I know there are so many fun options out there. Audiogon has always been a great place to get advice. Most of my current system was recommended 13 years ago from this site. 

Great questions sir!

@knollbrent in my opinion, your system looks really good.

It's a good thing to love the loudspeakers as much as you do.  I've also felt quite impressed by Piega.  They need some power, and of the solid state variety, which you have covered.  And as the MoFi cartridges are pretty new on the scene, and I've not heard them, I don't know their sonic character.

Nothing jumps out at me as anything I would change.  Asking you if you want to push things more to the liquid or engaging or some other side probably looks like the better question at this point.  If something jumps out that you have as a goal, maybe then folks can offer suggestions.  But you may already have found the right place for you

There are many factors for a "great" sounding table; scrutinizing adjustments is one of them.

The most important factor is the cartridge for you; initially you should buy the cheaper cartridges, and when you like one brand over another, buy one in the vicinity of 1k in that brand; this is for a long time, you won't regret it. Cartridges in the vicinity of 1K are very competitive, meaning they're all good, but in different ways.

I have a Grado Master, it's for jazz and female vocal, not for rock. Experiment as much as possible.


          https://www.needledoctor.com/Rega-Planar-3-Turntable



This is a good table, tweaks and the right cartridge can make it a great table; I have one that's tweaked out and it really sings; sounds better than class A digital.

Excellent @chakster  I appreciate you chiming in. There's nothing wrong with having a half dozen or even a baker's dozen lot of carts I gather. Change em out when you like. I'll look into these, thanks again. 

@orpheus10  maybe I misunderstood your comment but I already have my table. (2 months now) 

Knoll Brent, what are you trying to tell me?

@knollbrent 

A couple MC’s and MM’s would be nice to have regardless.

This is the answer to your question. You have a nice tunrtable, but i have no idea about the "sound" of your system and all those mentioned components, but i know for sure that different cartridges is what each of us should try. Since you already have a modern cartridge, you have to check the vintage classics to understand why that classics is so highly regarded today. For you Technics tonearm you need a mid of high compliance cartridges, definitely not low compliance. The compliance figure must be about 15cu @100Hz (Japanese system) or 30cu @10Hz (Rest of the world). Actually Japanese 15cu (measured at 100Hz) is equal to 30cu (measured at 10Hz in the rest of the world).

Some cartridges that most likely can blow you away are as follows: Victor X-1II, AT-ML170, Stanton SC-100 WOS and probably the Grace F9E (or higher). They are all Moving Magnet and works fine with your arm and phono stage. If you need help to find any of them let me know in PM, i have some spares.  

Recently i have checked Dynavector KARAT 23RS MR on Technics toneam/turntable and i was very impressed! I would recommend KARAT with its short Ruby cantilever for your tonearm/turntable. My JLTi phono stage was nice for this cartridge, loaded at 220 Ohm in my system. For more info about Dyna you can check my thread:     https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/dynavector-cartridges-old-and-new 

@orpheus10  scroll up :)

From my experience, and a whole lot of other people a, Rega P-3 is the place to start, and tweak at your convenience; sub platter, tone arm wire, platter, heavy weight for tone arm; these items will make a Rega sing.

A GOOD  rig can be had, but not a great one; the cartridge alone will hit for 1 K ; I would say  4K for impressive sound, and that would include the cartridge.

Not unless you spend $1000 on tweaks.  

A great table is one that sounds better than my class A digital.

The short answer is  NO

My McIntosh C2200 preamp has been pulled from the closet and dusted off. It's got tubes and sounds fantastic delivering the signal to the Piegas. I was originally running the Anthem for everything due to the room correction and addition of sub for movies. I'll keep the Anthem hooked up for movies, that's it. The C2200 is so good...

Latest from this front. Looking to upgrade the following in the near future and would welcome any suggestions or comments you have. Here’s where I’m at now:

-Piega C10 LTDs speakers are here forever. Try and pry em from my dead cold hands.
-McIntosh MC402 amp, love it! Getting another to run mono for more power. I’ve had the McIntosh for 12 years, half in storage.
-Technics 1200GR table. Love it, not interested in upgrading.
The arm, very interested in hearing thoughts on any upgrades or stand pat?
-Lehmannaudio Black Cube 2- Weakest link but I still really like it. It’s my first phono pre and for the price, it sounds great. But for a few extra bucks, I think I can do way better. Sutherland 20/20?
-Current main cart is the MoFi Master Tracker which I really like and have complaints. A couple MC’s and MM’s would be nice to have regardless.
Ortofon Cadenza Blue perhaps?
-My cables are Audience and Shunyata I’m happy there.
-Anthem MRX 520 receiver
-McIntosh C2200 sitting in the closet. I've tried the phono stage on the C2200 and don't prefer it to the Lehmann's. The Anthem has such wonderful room correction. I do like running everything through it. I may tinker a little with the C2200. It's a great preamp for sure!

As for my listening experience now? Lovin it! Listening to Herbie Hancocks Head Hunters album from the dining table and it’s got me movin :) Love the sound and enjoying the experience. I hardly listen to my digital side anymore...

Look forward to your comments
@trelja
@avanti1960
@chakster
@marktomaras

Here it is....

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/7186

@knollbrent - 

Great choice on the 1200GR. I don’t think there’s a better all-rounder for less than $3k than that table. I’m waiting for someone to put their 1200GAE up for sale, but might end up buying a 1200G if my patience runs out. 

To your question regarding Gruv-Glide, I’m a big fan! While I cannot scientifically say for sure that it does everything it promises to, I can say that it does a great job of cleaning the record & reducing/eliminating static. It doesn’t deep-clean like a a good ultrasonic or vacuum machine, but for everything else, it’s just great. In listening to records after applying it, I find that they sound fuller & richer, with quieter backgrounds. 

Just my $0.02 worth...Enjoy your music!

Arvin

If you haven’t committed to the Lehman yet you might consider an upgraded Jolida JD9. A few more dollars and a bit hard to find used, but it gives you a huge range of loading options and sounds great.
sweet and detailed-both. 

Thank you @avanti1960  I'll look at those links!

Listening update!

Holy Moly it sounds amazing! The amount of information pressed into vinyl is ridiculous. The music is now full, detailed, rich, inviting. Adventurous...Enjoy just throwing on a record and listening from beginning to end. It's very calming.

My system's been together now for a month, time for everything including the new Tekton Electrons to burn in. The Electrons are sounding sweet btw.  

Ok, so here's the KICKER. I decided for giggles sake to pull my Piega C10 Ltds out of the closet and see how they'd perform in what I considered too small of a room. WOW! I'd forgotten how amazing that speaker is. They've been in storage for 10 years, just waiting patiently. 

They have no problem handling this little room and they're decently big. If you don't know about these speakers and you're bored, look em up. Piega in general is great but the C10 Ltds are bad mamma jammas. 

So for the first time too, the Piegas are Arc'd through my Anthem 520. Room is super tight now. I'll need to soften it a little with some treatments, but not much. AND they get to sing the praises of Vinyl. I never in a million years thought  vinyl could sound so good. 

Yup, that's it for now. A little treatment here and there with room and we're good to go. 

That's the update!

hi brent, hope things are sounding great!
just a few comments about some of your questions-
some LPs can sound crackly even after being cleaned- but very few. if you have lots of LPs that sound noisy something in the cartridge setup might be off- possibly VTA too high?  
groove glide- don’t have a need for it.
i use this to quickly clean the LP before setting the tonearm down-
https://www.lpgear.com/product/AT6012.html

it’s the best brushing device I have ever used and tried them all. takes a little work but it does remove all dust etc. prior to a spin. i just rotate the LP by hand while using the brush.

also i use this cleaner ~ once a week or so for the stylus- some gunk just cannot be removed with the brush alone. a bottle of this has lasted 2 years and it’s still nearly full!

peace and happy listening!
https://www.lpgear.com/product/AT0607.html

Yes. 

The question should be...Is a great room under $2000.00 possible?

Sounds an excessive budget especially given your equipment.

For $800 you can do very well.

I use a refurbished PL550 TT in burl magnolia veneer with a Denon DL-110 cartridge...check out my system

I wanted vintage FM radio vinyl sound - and it is exactly what I want from vinyl.

Any opinions on the use of Groove Glide? I ordered the cleaning set but will wait till I hear back regarding those that have tried it and their opinions. Thanks!

I do have a VPi Classic 3 in Piano black Store demo. Any Turntable you purchase honestly comes down to setup and attention to detail. A Well executed rig even with a Technics could be good also ! Always go to your nearest dealer, Pay retail prices and have him set it up correctly. That service will give you an amazing relationship, invites to dealer events and a knowledgable staff when you run into problems.

Record Dr. is pretty great indeed. Easy to use and does what it’s supposed to do, clean your vinyl. Static is gone too which has been a nuisance on some of my new records. Some records still pop and crackle but I think that’s just part of the original pressing. I will be getting a protractor soon. I may be able to fine tune the cart a little making for a cleaner, better image.

I suspect some records are noisier than others. Got a NM   U2 Joshua Tree US 2007 and it's pretty crackly even after cleaning and using brush. I clean the stylus after every record too. 

Any thoughts on this?

excellent!  the record dr is a great machine and a big value.  don't forget some mofi anti-stat sleeves!  

I just ordered the Record Dr. and he'll be here Thurs. We'll clean these babies up and get that static outta here! It's the new records. It's funny, cause I use the hair on my chest as a reference. Just hold any suspicious record up to my chest and either the hairs stick out or they don't. It's funny! Just happened by accident too.

@avanti1960   and @gshepardbuster excellent advice. Thank you!

the only thing that worked (for me) to eliminate static was to wet clean new LPS (and used of course) and store them in an anti-static sleeve (e.g. mofi sleeves).
currently using this one- and it works great.
a little bit of a hassle but a decent routine- have a beer and clean a batch of new LPs.
I never have a static issue after they are cleaned- even in the cold north during winter months. something about neutralizing the initial static in the vinyl with the wet clean.

https://www.amazon.com/Record-Doctor-Cleaning-Machine/dp/B00BEIC3DO

Milty zerostat and a carbon fiber brush. 

System coming along nicely but now I'm having to deal with the static electricity. I live in Miami Florida btw, I don't think I need a humidifier :)

Suggestions?

@waltersalas   lol

Good so far. I'm going to look a little further into the setting of the cart as my buddy did it by sound only, not that I doubt him but I might be able to squeeze a little more outta the MoFi with the use of the chart. 

I've got some nice vinyl to listen to tonight. The adventure continues!

B

Brent,
Great report! Vinyl is a different world, with lots of twists and turns. But it is FUN, especially finding great deals on records here and there. And then there is that sound. I hope you continue to enjoy the ride.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming, consisting mainly of audiophiles continuing to give you sound advice on which table you should buy weeks after you've made your choice.

Happy listening!

Update!!!

Technics SL 1200 GR TT is up and spinning. A buddy stopped by and helped me balance and get the MoFi Master Tracker cart mounted. Lehmann Black Cube SE II Phono Preamp adjusted as well. Going to let things burn in for a month, then we'll look at making some adjustments if necessary. 

How's it sound? Wow! My first turntable listening experience was a good one. Pink Floyd's Dark Side was on rotation as well as some Stevie Ray Vaughn and Fleetwood Mac among others. Much more detail than the Tidal streaming HiFi and Cd's for the most part. 

I enjoy the experience of taking the time to put on the album and just let it play through. Very nice experience all around. 

That's about it for now. Thanks again for the suggestions. I hit a home run on round 1.

Brent 

Audio forums are like AA meeting in a bar .

The wife’s mad cuz I just bought a Technics 1210 GR. I blamed it on this thread, she will giving y’all a talking to!

I looked through all of the responses, and was surprised to see that there was no mention of Bang and Olufsen’s best turntables, and the cartridges that Soundsmiths makes under license from B&O for use with them. These were the most elegantly engineered products of their time, with all components designed to work in concert to provide the optimum result. I sold many of their first great design, the 4000 series tangential tracking turntables, back in the 70s. In A/B listening tests, I was always able to get my coworkers to pick the B&O tables over far more expensive (at the time) products from Thorens, Luxman, Transcriptor, etc., with the best cartridges available at that time.  As a lover and collector of these turntables, I’ve made LP to CD transcriptions that are superior to the store-bought CDs of the albums, with virtually silent noise floors, and, when listening directly to the LPs, a breathtaking (on well engineered acoustic instrument recordings) spatiality that I don’t hear from other turntables. I’d be curious to hear from others who’ve heard a properly set up Beogram 8000, or the even better Beogram 8002.  These were B&O’s only direct-drive turntables, and used a unique, and cog-free method of direct drive. Any other B&O lovers out there?

Well here's one worth knowing:

http://dr.loudness-war.info

More additions would be welcome, and dynamic range isn't everything, but a good place to start.

This weekend my buddy Erik is stopping by to help me set up the TT, carts, phono, etc. I've started purchasing some records and do a pretty good search on pressing reviews but would love to find a site that has lots of easy to read reviews of great albums new and old. I find navigating Steve Hoffman and Discogs a lot of work to get even a little nugget of info. Any recommendations of review album pressing sites???

Lenco L70, L75, L78
Nothing can compete with Lenco in this price range.
I hate belt drives. They destroy a PRaT the entity of music.

Excellent @jsm71  thanks for that valuable info!

Since you seem to like "old school" let me give you an option.  Find a Dual 701 direct drive turntable.  The table itself is as good as any every produced, and the arm is excellent.  It should cost you well under $500.  Then spend the other $1500 on the bes MC cartridge and headamp you can listen to.
 
If you want to save money, here's a used combo that sounds as good as anything I've heard in the last 30 years:  Aforemention Dual 701, Accuphase AC-2 MC cartridge, Marcof PPA-2 battery-driven headamp.  Find them (relatively rare, put them together, and you've got at least $4000 of sound.

the new Denon VL12 prime and the Pioneer PLX-1000 are legit and both under $1000....of course I have a Sound Smith modified Denon DL-103, a Jolida JD9 mkII phonostage and a Lounge Audio Copla MC head amp so that helps