Impedance Loading for SS Hyperion

Whoever warned you about a “peaked high end” was wrong. 47K is just fine for a low output MI.

That's the statement in the owner's manual!

Actually my Hyperion has been used with 47K since forever.  It just sounds better.

Hmm. I'm not alone. Any other Hyperion users like to chime in with their loading?

@dogberry 

I agree with Lewm and Billstevenson on loading based on practical hands on experience using both; the SS Hyperion MK II and new SS Hyperion MK II MR.

I initially loaded the Hyperions’s per the manufacturer’s recommendations and not long after discovered through listening that changing the loading increased listening pleasure. From my observations, I heard better resolution and less midrange shoutiness, or excessive peaks…it seemed to balance out and improve performance with these changes in loading.

My process to come to this conclusion is somewhat similar to how you started. I initially started at 400 ohms and then did a giant leap to 47k ohms. This was to interpret gross performance differences between the two loading ranges. After experimenting with those two loading ranges, I opted to try 1k, 4.7k, and 10k. I also dipped down to 243 to see what sound differences I could discern. I have an Aesthetix IO Eclipse phono stage with dual power supplies which allows for those loading values. I actually can go as low as 10, 20, 40.2, 75, 121, 243, und weiter. 
 

The realization is that I was able to come to the final loading ranges based on experimenting with the different loads my phono stage allowed me to use. I arrived to the 47k range after listening to all the other loads and concluded that 47k was perfect with the two different Hyperion models. Always take the manufacturer’s loading range as a starting point and experiment through listening and alternating between other loading ranges to get the best balance in sound. 
 

I do not find the Hyperions having any peaking attributes on the high end with 47K loading. I have an Air Tight Opus 1 which I do find to be more restrictive to the manufacturers loading range; however, that cartridge is a low output MC cartridge and not the same type of construction as the Soundsmith cartridges. I only mention this as once you acquire various cartridges and experiment, you too will come to similar conclusions. Have fun listening. 

Looks like we are gravitating towards higher loading values. Anyone else have one - and what do you use?

1. Hyperion MK II : loading 47k 

2. Hyperion MK II MR : loading 47 k 

Both sound excellent. See post above. 

Can you guys confirm when you say you are loading your SS cartridges at 47k are you going into a MC input then loading at 47k. I thought most MM sections are all 47k ohms. 

Whatever input offers enough phono gain. Both my balanced phono stages offer 47K ohms into high gain RIAA circuits. One came that way. One I modified myself.

Yes 47kΩ on an MC input. You're right that MM inputs are almost always 47k, and are often fixed at that.

As long as you own a soldering iron, nothing is fixed.

I can use a MC input and load it to whatever value I want, or use a MM input which is what I use when I use an SUT.  The latter is my most often chosen approach. 

Is that with a Hyperion, Bill? Using an SUT, as I expect you know, the resulting loading will be 47,000 ÷ turns ratio² = load (assuming you have a 47k MM input).

Yes with my Consolidated 10:1 it would be 470, with my Bob's devices 5:1 it is  1,880.  With no SUT it is 47,0000.  My phono stage works any of these.  

Because low output MI cartridges have much more inductance than comparable LOMC cartridges (as much as 1000X more inductance), 470 ohms is about as low as you want to go, which limits the typical system to using a 1:10 SUT where the SUT drives an MM stage with a 47K input Z.  This even though the SS and Grado LOMI cartridges have an internal resistance of 10 ohms or less. I'm sure Bill knows this, just saying.

@lewm 

Simply working the inductance against the load impedance is too simplistic of an assessment for the use of a SUT in the case of MI (or other high L ) cartridges.  What becomes more important is the load capacitance reflected through the transformer resonating with the inductance creating problems near the top of the audio band.  assuming a 1:10 and 150pF of load capacitance and 2.75mHy of inductance we get a resonance @ 25kHz.  The 47kΩ does a lot to damp this resonance but being so close to the top of the audio band makes me nervous.

dave

Dave, I hope I didn't claim to know exactly why inductance is the problem with using the SUT, only that it IS a problem.  I did understand it has something to do with HF resonance, but I guess I left open the incorrect interpretation that it has to do with the cartridge trying to drive the resulting load. Thank you for the explanation. I think Atmasphere has said the same. Based on reports here from users of the low output Soundsmith MI cartridges, Peter Ledermann is not against using SUTs with his cartridges but probably only ones with a turns ratio of 1:10 or less.

After having much frustration with 6922 tube noise in my Primaluna Evo 100 MC stage, both with tubes going noisy after a brief period, as well as the noticeable noise floor, I decided to hook up a SUP and run the phono in MM mode. For my Soundsmith Hyperion ES MK 2, I chose a set of Llundahl 9926 XLs, set to 1:10 ratio, that I installed in a project box. So, the loading works out to be 470 ohms. The result was nothing short of extraordinary - very low noise, excellent clarity, precise instrument positioning, vast soundstage depth, an overall a lot more realistic sounding. I do not perceive any dullness that would be fixed with higher loading. I had not heard what that cartridge could really do until now, and I’ve heard it through much more expensive fully active phono stages in my system. I can’t recommend this combination highly enough. I also think it’s a testament to the MM stage of that phono preamp. I do feel that the MC stage in it holds it back from its true potential, at least with my setup.

I used the Sussurro MkII ES with a VAS transformer (1:10) and enjoyed it greatly, and found no downside when I resurrected the NuVista Vinyl to using it with an input set to MC. So when I got the Hyperion I plugged it straight into the NuVista.

Prior to using SUT I had the Sussurro connected to an MC input of a Quad 24p, and that was not impressive (loading was fixed at 10Ω).

One strange thing to report, though, is that I recently had to swap in an old power amp (YBA-1ɑ) as one of my Quad II/forty amps developed a fault. The Hyperion now has a slight hum that I had not heard with the Quads. Irritating! I'm curious to see if it resolved when the Quad gets repaired.

Try lifting a ground on the amp or somewhere else? Also, not that this may directly help you in your case, but I was getting hum in the phono section with my new SUT at first. I moved it further away from my power regenerator and that fixed it.

I checked this morning and all four cartridges are humming, the Hyperion least of all. But I've gone from 40W amps to an 85W amp. Turn the volume down on the pre-amp dummy! Problem solved.

It is funny how some times the simple solution is the best one.  

Quad phono has fixed input Z of 10 ohms!!!!?  Really?

Quad 24p, yes, fixed at 10Ω for MC. See here. As to why, you'd have to ask Tim deParavicini, who designed it, and that will prove difficult now.

I recently bought a the Sussurro MKII Gold along with the MCP2 phono stage. I've been playing around  with 1500 - 5K ohm loading. SS recommends greater than 470 ohms but I prefer the higher settings. 

Does the quad have built in SUT for MC?

Not sure, I haven't been able to find a circuit diagram. But I'm using the NuVista Vinyl now, which has solid state amps for MC use.

With my Hyperion ES MK II, I use 500 ohm or 47 k ohm.  With the Pass XP-27, I just don’t hear a big difference. For fun, I can load it below 480 and then we start loosing some Hyperion magic. 

The Hyperion ES MK II is not a MC cartridge. 47k ohm is correct. 

The manufacturer suggests 470 - 1000 ohms.

ChatGPT, others, and listening to the different settings, all point to 47k ohms.  Set yours to your preference.  I do not tell other people how to drink their whiskey. 

ChatGPT, others, and listening to the different settings, all point to 47k ohms.  Set yours to your preference.  I do not tell other people how to drink their whiskey. 

But you just did.

ChatGPT, others, and listening to the different settings, all point to 47k ohms

The designer and manufacturer of the Soundsmith cartridges recommends the following

Hyperion ( early ) 470-1000 homs

Hyperion ES greater than or equal to 470 ohms.

Chat GP is great for finding out how men can have babies, not so much for audio.

Of course you are correct in that folk can do whatever they want. high end audiophiles have a proclivity for knowing more than the designer. I recall a customer who insisted on driving Apogees with Luxman flee power valve mono amplifiers.

It ended up with an early Guy Fawkes celebration, but , hey , he reckoned it sounded great for the short period it ran.

Six hours of driving tomorrow, but at the end of it I should have my right channel back. I've ended up preferring listening to one tube amp and one speaker rather than the old YBA-1ɑ. And no hum that I can hear!

@dover. You can set yours at 470 ohms.  I will set mine at 47k ohms based on how it sounds to me on my system in my house.  You vastly underestimate how useful ChatGPT can be in this area.

You changed my mind.  After switching them back and forth on the same song, I settled on 1000 ohms. 47K seemed to have a slight sibilance.  

ChatGPT is only summarizing anything anyone ever wrote on the subject. So it tends to tell you what you already know. Or to put it another way, ChatGPT does not own an audio system or listen to music.

@markalarsen 

You changed my mind.  After switching them back and forth on the same song, I settled on 1000 ohms. 47K seemed to have a slight sibilance.  

That's where I ended up.