Foster, you are right about me. Can you explain the word impromptu? Giving me a break? Could be worst?
BTW, thanks for your spending data! You are one of the few folks answering the question. |
Spend as much as you can comfortably afford. Base that on what sounds best to you. Don't try to "proportionatley" spend an amount, or you fence yourself in or out depending on the perspective. If the CDP that sounds best in your system is within your budget buy it. If you upgrade other components, as I have heard some do, your CDP won't be out of place with its performance level. I think the only time a price point vs. system cost would apply is a cartridge on a turntable. Example I wouldn't suggest that a person buy a Lyra Titan for a Rega RP1. No insult to RP1 owners but a 4500.00 Cart on a 500.00 Table would never reveal it's potential. My advise is put the sliderule away and listen listen listen, at least IMHO. |
as a starting point to begin the search/comparison of components, i'd be it the 10-15% ballpark on 40k. 15% would be for a digital front end (dac/transport/pc audio set-up), not just a cdp. if i had to get a cdp only, i'd be closer to the 10% mark.
could be subject to change if i fell in love with something but it would get the ball rolling.
final answer...4-6k
what do i win?? |
Impromptu - given at a moments notice without significant thought like naming all the costs of your components with referring to any documents
Giving you a break - not being pilloried for inane, assinine or pointless meandering in your comments or thought processes caused by using a second language
Could be worse - Some may think it is just braggadocio on your part to laud a $40K expenditure rather than a legitimate question and respond accordingly. |
In each of my systems the CDP/digital costs what the speakers cost. In both cases it is about 25%. Those numbers are pure coincidence and have little meaning as I listen to digital very rarely in those systems.
In the other two 'systems' where I listen to the most digital, the numbers are 80% and 2% and those ratios are both explicit and deliberate. I spent $100 on headphones to go with my iPhone, which I use as an iPod. The other is the $100 car stereo I recently bought to replace the one which died in my 10-year-old car (which is worth $5k on a good day).
I am thinking of buying a digital-only system for use in a tight space. In that case, given the headphones and amp and server I am considering, it will be about 60%.
Hope this helps. |
My CD player and DAC combined was about 10% of the total system cost . I didn't plan it that way , just bought the player I liked best . |
To the naysayers, I say audio is supposed to be fun and for recreation/ enjoyment of music. This is a message board about all things audio. Some guys, I won't name any names, some guys are just mean-spirtited, nasty, and take themselves and these subjects way too serious. Lighten up! We audio enthusiasts and philes make up a very very small group of people in society! To most people we are are looked at as crazy for what we invest in this gear. |
On my $8K system, the CDP is 25% of the system cost (list price). Lower costs players are just not good enough.
On my $40K system (list price), the CDP is about 5% of the cost, and the analog rig is almost 20% of the cost. If you concentrate on CDs, then the CDP becomes a more important part and could easily go to 10% to 15% of the cost.
In a lot of ways, this is another way to get at the source first versus speaker first discussion. For me, I find I need a good source, but get more payback in sound quality from the speakers and the electronics. My digital upgrades are going to PC audio, rather into a new CD player. |
My CDP tends to run about 15% - 20% of total component cost (not including cables, stands etc.). |
HEy Foster,
What $7500 speakers are you running these days? IS it still the Mirage's?
IS the bass finally working out? If so, what turned out to be the secret ingredient(s)? |
Foster9: "To most we are looked at as crazy for what we invest in this gear". Yes, It is us against the world!! :) |
respectfully, since price is an imperfect indicator of quality, i agree it's kinda silly to choose a component on the basis of a formula, as opposed to what sounds/looks/feels best to you. there are credible people who maintain that a <$1k rotel or oppo sounds just as good as a megabuck cdp and other credible people who really can hear the improvement inherent in a $5k player. personally, i concur with rdavwhittaker above--i've heard enough great $2k players that i wouldn't be inclined to spend more. which isn't to say, of course, that there's no difference between a great $2k player and a great $5k player--it's an issue of whether the degree of improvement is cost-justified to you. |
I am unable to let you confusing fellows here anymore, yes, I suggest you to shut up and quit this post, Sorry, it doesn't work that way. You ask a question on an internet forum and you are not always going to get the answer you hope for. As far as confusing people, a number of people agree with me in my opinion that you are going about it the wrong way. Sorry if that bothers you. , |
Grandetech
Don't lose faith. There are a lot of members here who are very helpful and willing to share their knowledge. Few can be mean but don't let that deter you.
In my secondary system my CDP and DAC comprised 11% of my total amount paid for my system.
In my primary system my Digital player was 13% of the total amount of money spent on it.
I really didn't plan it that way though. That is just how my system ended up. I was paying more attention to how the music was sounding while keeping in mind what people have said here about component synergy and that even the weakest link in a system can make music sound crappy.
$40,000 to spend on an audio system. Whew. That must be real nice. |
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Jed,
I assume you include me when you say "few can be mean?"
Why is it mean to offer an honest opinion that disagrees with his approach? I and others were trying to help him develop a strategy for choosing a component that fits his system.
In fact, the way you went about choosing your components is exactly what I and others are advocating. Does that make you one of the few that are being mean to him?
. |
For roughly 12-percent of $40,000, you can put together a music server that will rival CD playback systems costing as much as 50-percent of your $40,000 system ($20,000).
For less than $5,000, you can purchase a new comprehensive high-end music server (player/renderer, controller, server/source, WiFi router and cabling).
If digital music is your primary source for listening to music, your digital source is then a fundamental link in your system chain (not a place to skimp). Therefore, I think 10-percent, in your case, should be a minimum.
|
Hi Map,
Yes, still with the Mirage OMD-28. The thing that made the difference was changing to a solid state preamp, new balanced interconnects (tried several -amp to preamp) and magnet wire speaker cables and interconnect (not anticables). These changes brought in more bass, fullness, and clarity. I've been pursuing all three. I won't say my system sound has arrived. I'm still tweaking. Finally found some cables that made an appreciable difference. |
Hi Herman
I wasn't picking on you at all. If it came off like that and if I offended you I'm very sorry. I honestly didn't mean it. When I wrote my post above I was just thinking about how some members can be mean to others in the various threads I've read in the past. I really wasn't thinking about what was said in this thread. I had only glanced at some responses. I wasn't taking a swipe at you or anyone else who had posted previously on this thread. Again my apologies. |
At this price point it is cheaper to house Symphony Orchestra in the living room - nothing beats real thing. |
I think a puccinni is overkill but a K01 is dead on. |
Okay... How about $600.00 or so for a used NAD 565BEE as part of the following $40,000 system:
Linn Basik TT $550.00 used
NAD 565BEE CDP $600 store demo
Linn Klout Amp $1440 used
Linn Kairn PreAmp $650 used
Linn Kan IV Speakers $400 used
Audioquest Quartz ICs 1M pair X 2 = $200 used
Pangea 14SE PCs 2M X 3 = $210 NEW
Pangea 9SE PC 2M $180 NEW
Hydra-6 $650 used
BDR Cones for CDP and TT QTY: 6 = $120
Transparent Opus Speaker Cables 8 Pair $35000 NEW
If you want to splurge, you might want to audition the Sony XA5400ES, which can be found for about $1100.
Hope that helps. |
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Well from Courant's calculations, we now know that if you have a $40k system, at least 85% of your system money should be spent on speaker cables.
. |
The intent of the exercise was a bit subtler... You can ALWAYS create a "system" that conforms to some large dollar amount.
Spending well doesn't always mean spending more. Further, combining "parts" doesn't necessarily yield a "system."
Having an idea of what you're trying to create is more often a better route than simply spending more.
While spending $35K on wire for what would ordinarily be a $5K or so system is absurd, it also doesn't mean spending that much for speaker cable with a $150K system is appropriate or necessary either, contrary to what a "typical dealer" might try to tell you.
With the system I put together in the example, the expensive wire was obviously wrong. But, if my intent was to put together a Flat Earth system, the modestly priced NAD and Sony choices are also "wrong." Something like a Linn Ikemi or Naim CD5 would be better choices.
If you're ballparking a $40K budget because you want a specific high priced speaker or amp in the mix, then fine. For example, deciding first that you want Maggies or Sophias would then determine the Amps etc. Alternatively, you might select your sources first, and then back-chain to the power source and then the speakers.
Either way, you will likely be better served by determining an overall system objective and then framing the budget to best meet that objective. |
I have spent about $31000. Including CD player. Simaudio Andromeda (about $12000 at the time). So CD player 38%. Contrary to some opinions, it made my music at a more emotional level than before (compared to Simaudio Eclipse also very good). Simaudio Eclipse not included in total above, it would be $36000 then.
I listened to many CD players including much cheaper ones before deciding. Over 3 years. thanks.
Bill |
My TT will end up being a little under twice as much as my CDP which was almost twice as much as my next less expensive component, which is my Preamp. Don't scrimp on your source(s). |
I will never own a disc player again. I think they have lost their relevance. The DAC was always the most important part of the player anyway, and now a stand alone DAC is much more important than the machine that spins it.
Download the info to a music server, then let the DAC take it from there. |
Well Said Macdadtexas. You are absolutely right. Yours is the sensible answer. Players will go the way of VCR's... |
Forget CD players. Rip your collection to harddisc and get a good USB Dac or a USB to S/PDIF converter and DAC. You can achieve SQ of very high grade CD players this way, and the convience is unsurpasses. Ripping the CD's is the real bitch though... |
Well Shardone, go comment on my newest thread about disc players, need some back up |
Interesting comments. I agree with some of the above cost is not a good way to qualify a disk player. You should listen to one model and listen to the one above it and see if you can hear more detail or soundstage etc preferably in your system. That is the only really way to tell.
As far as all this talk of disk players going away I don't see it anytime soon on high end audio. The Dax is important but there is not a pc yet that can feed it and make it sound as good as my cd player. I have tried all sorts of dacs and sources but I have not tried the new Mach2music just to be fair. What is neat is my wadia will take a USB and has a cd player built in. Anyhow listening is the only way to find one that will match your system. If you need a number I find I need to spend about 6k to get the detail I want in a player. |
