Working on the paint now. Will let you know when I've got the formula right so that its performance matches the wild claims.
I think I've Just Seen Absolute Proof That Audiophiles Are Insanely Gullible
I didn’t want to crap on someone’s sales thread, so I thought i’d post my amazement here. The focus of my disbelief? The "Dalby D7-Vinyl Stabilizer," which is a damn weight that screws onto the turntable spindle to hold the record securely onto the platter. Listed retail? 4000 British Pounds! (although a mag listed it at $6,800! On sale here at AudioGullible for the bargain basement price of 2500 British Pounds, or $3600 US dollars!!! Just read a few snippets of the sales ad . . .
"The D7-Vinyl Stabiliser has a sonic character that brings music to life and the ability to elevate the entire audio frequency from the veil and mechanics inherent in prerecorded music. The gains are immediate, with sweeter high frequency extension while the mid and lower registers are beautifully controlled. The soundscape is wider, higher and deeper, allowing the music to breathe more naturally."
I’m sorry, but I’m calling total BS on this. A friggin’ weight brings "music to life," "sweeter high frequency extension," "allowing the music to breathe more naturally . ." Come on. Its a modified paperweight that screws onto the platter. One can only imagine what this guy thinks about some $20K interconnects for the turntable -- the music probably writes itself! And don’t forget the amazing improvement that a $4,000 carbon fiber mat might add . . . You probably would think you were hallucinating because the music breathed so much it was oozing out of the speakers, like on some of my more memorable nights in college in the ’70’s.
Now I have never heard this amazing gift to the audiophile community, so maybe it is the audio equivalent of the Second Coming, but really? $5,800 for this? It confirms to me that there is a certain insanity/gullibility/too much money/snake oil in this so-called "hobby," (which is a hobby to customers and ridiculous business for some manufacturers). When is enough enough? What about audiophile paint, that has amazing sonic qualities to cut down reflection and make the soundstage so wide that you feel you need a new apartment? Don’t forget the audiophile couch, that is sonically neutral but promises to position your ears to "bring music to life?" OK, I’ve made my point. No offense to the seller of the snake oil, but really . . . When is enough enough?
This concludes my rant for today. :)
"The D7-Vinyl Stabiliser has a sonic character that brings music to life and the ability to elevate the entire audio frequency from the veil and mechanics inherent in prerecorded music. The gains are immediate, with sweeter high frequency extension while the mid and lower registers are beautifully controlled. The soundscape is wider, higher and deeper, allowing the music to breathe more naturally."
I’m sorry, but I’m calling total BS on this. A friggin’ weight brings "music to life," "sweeter high frequency extension," "allowing the music to breathe more naturally . ." Come on. Its a modified paperweight that screws onto the platter. One can only imagine what this guy thinks about some $20K interconnects for the turntable -- the music probably writes itself! And don’t forget the amazing improvement that a $4,000 carbon fiber mat might add . . . You probably would think you were hallucinating because the music breathed so much it was oozing out of the speakers, like on some of my more memorable nights in college in the ’70’s.
Now I have never heard this amazing gift to the audiophile community, so maybe it is the audio equivalent of the Second Coming, but really? $5,800 for this? It confirms to me that there is a certain insanity/gullibility/too much money/snake oil in this so-called "hobby," (which is a hobby to customers and ridiculous business for some manufacturers). When is enough enough? What about audiophile paint, that has amazing sonic qualities to cut down reflection and make the soundstage so wide that you feel you need a new apartment? Don’t forget the audiophile couch, that is sonically neutral but promises to position your ears to "bring music to life?" OK, I’ve made my point. No offense to the seller of the snake oil, but really . . . When is enough enough?
This concludes my rant for today. :)
132 responses Add your response
Watching these threads is like watching people put a weapon over the fence and take out their friendly and likeable neighbors, as they feel helpless in the face of a $100 trillion and more mess of a global psychopathic regime that they individually feel they can do nothing about. Like watching hundreds of closeted and blinkered animals gnaw their own limbs off when stuck in a trap, as they can’t understand the scope of the entire trap scenario. Some forums are moving to disallow this sort of discussion to even begin or take place. Good for them. These threads....are totally counterproductive to the attempt of increasing the quality of the representation of the musical art to the human ear. It’s literally death on wheels with flames and force, to the audio forums and their intent. Driving people who ARE connected....father and father apart, and out of audio...via violent and projected ignorance, about audio. About music. Instead of going out there and dealing in the face, full on, with the real world things, the seeming overwhelming things..... that ~~must~~ be confronted. Beating friends and family and people in their own homes, instead of confronting the real issues at hand. Just for that feel of making an attempt in an area they think they can understand and control. Wrong venue, wrong emotions, wrong way, wrong confrontation, and so on. |
The left/right signal flick arm end bulb on a Bugatti Veyron is approx $8000 to manufacture, according to the record of the reports. It is a piece of machined metal. I’d wager far more of them (over 400 Veyrons) have been sold than this record clamp. Where’s your outrage? Or is it just..somehow....placed here and here only? Is it just the desire to rant? The psychology underlying your post, indicates that you are seemingly trying to bring the violence of the mosh pit back to life for entertainment purposes. When I called people out on it, it stopped it cold. You are trying to step through what I said and put the fire and flames back into it. I won’t post here again. :) Not because I’m trying to slip away with my nose up - looking down at anyone, no not at all. Never done that, why start now. (we’re all in this together) Mostly because doing the right thing, like simply mentioning the fundamentals behind the gross inconsistencies .....is not good for our company reputation in the minds of some. |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
@teo_audio, no outrage here, although there is a strong desire to rant. Yes, it is no surprise that a company that charges $1.9 million for a car no doubt charges a commensurately expensive amount for parts. That is not really the point here. What got and gets my goat is not the ridiculous price for a glorified paperweight, but the outlandish claims that are made to support why the glorified paperweight is going to make you think that its the Resurrection when you clamp it onto your LP. All of the silly audiophool language that cannot be proven in any objective way, such as "the music breathes so much more" or "the music sparkles like I've never heard before" when you use the $5800 paperweight. I have no problem with someone thinking, "hey, that is the $5800 paperweight that I have been looking for my whole life" and wants to buy it. That's great. I am objecting to the preposterous marketing claims of the alleged benefits of the $5800 paperweight beyond its cool looks and bragging rights. |
| Post removed |
People who come to visit and see your speaker cables on risers know that you are a real audiophile.Man, I learn something new here every day. I thought real audiophiles suspended their cables from fishing line attached to the ceiling - braid for smoothness, monofilament for value and Fluorocarbon for added density. Stunning visual effect but somewhat low WAF. |
| Post removed |
And will someone please explain to me the benefits of cable risers. Capacitance added, field interactions, vs added motor noise. High intensity fields and their associated transient fields in a vibrating environment. The scenario is different if the cable is suspended. (VS lying on the given floor) Tying down cables in micro sensitive measuring environments is the norm, for those very reasons. Our hearing works via micro changes in time and level, of many intermixed transients/peaks. That’s the only part of the signal we hear. Our brain decodes it over time. We are, overall, in the final analysis - the world’s best FFT analysis hardware, by a country mile. Audiophiles are highly trained, highly experienced ones. If you look at the claims about the record clamp, or what goes on in audio cables, or any audio gear, it is exactly those things that are the majority of the distortions, and thus ..are the things we hear. There is no mystery here, there is only an incomplete analysis of an incomplete question. That’s why it is mysterious for some. with the proper framing, it becomes a question of..if the clamp needs to be $6000 or not. Each of us hears differently, we each ’built’ up our library of signals heard and decoded, as we grew up from being a child. It’s a combination of our innate wiring and abilities vs the next person’s. We each start with a basic similar neural and physical system/package but each hearing sytem execution and build...is different. The brain is elastic and we each learn differently, we each - hear differently. We each approach and try to solve the 'high quality audio' conundrum differently. Thus some will find value in the given clamp, or cable riser, and some won’t. It’s not a contest, it’s not a ranking of skills, it’s not an ego attack. It just ’is’. Individually, in this case. |
I was just chatting with a friend of mine today about some audiophile products that could easily be marketed with similar pseudoscience to what many products currently have. Without stepping on too many toes, if Romex wire is what's in the wall why wouldn't it make sense for an audiophile manufacturer just built in some ideal connectors into the back of the component that would allow a custom run of Romex from the breaker box to the back of the component. Why have an outlet or separate power cord at all? I've often wondered if a product like Nordost Sort Kones truly make a difference why wouldn't a manufacturer of five figure pieces of equipment just include them with their gear as a "door prize"? Better yet, why not just design it right into the component since money is no object in the first place. Audiophiles often argue that tweaks are best utilized in the most discerning systems where there is sufficient fidelity to hear small differences. I'd argue that a $400 CD player should benefit from having better supports than a $40,000 CD player because at that price those types of factors should have been part of the original design. I think science would indicated that most of the audiophile targeted products that are advertised with pure pseudoscience are likely relying on the power of suggestion in most cases. Do people still paint the edges of their CDs green to increase the bass? |
I've been into high end audio for about 3 decades, yet I'm still able to be shocked by the price of some gear. Case in point: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8f62g-voxativ-ac-4-full-range Almost $25,000 for a speaker driver. For. A. Speaker.....driver! Those are some brass b#lls to be asking for that. The higher hi end almost seems like an on-going dare between companies "how much can we get someone to pay for this before they tell us to take hike?" And someone, somewhere...keeps paying. |
You ain’t seen nothing yet. Check out the ULTRA internal speaker wiring upgrade from Von Schweikert. Various options available. https://www.vonschweikert.com/ultra-internal-wire-upgrade |
mceljo I was just chatting with a friend of mine today about some audiophile products that could easily be marketed with similar pseudoscience to what many products currently have. >>>>>Have any examples? Without stepping on too many toes, if Romex wire is what’s in the wall why wouldn’t it make sense for an audiophile manufacturer just built in some ideal connectors into the back of the component that would allow a custom run of Romex from the breaker box to the back of the component. Why have an outlet or separate power cord at all? >>>>>Uh, I am pretty sure the reason is that most audiophile cables sound better than Rome’s. Case solved! I’ve often wondered if a product like Nordost Sort Kones truly make a difference why wouldn’t a manufacturer of five figure pieces of equipment just include them with their gear as a "door prize"? Better yet, why not just design it right into the component since money is no object in the first place. >>>>>Some manufacturers do use specialty cones, actually. Audio Aero’s CD player used those carbon Fiber cones. Audiophiles often argue that tweaks are best utilized in the most discerning systems where there is sufficient fidelity to hear small differences. I’d argue that a $400 CD player should benefit from having better supports than a $40,000 CD player because at that price those types of factors should have been part of the original design. >>>>>>Yes, the argument works both ways. Many tweaks are audible on inexpensive and expensive equipment/systems. I think science would indicated that most of the audiophile targeted products that are advertised with pure pseudoscience are likely relying on the power of suggestion in most cases. >>>>>>Which products are you referring to? Are audiophiles so weak they can be that easily hornswaggled? Do people still paint the edges of their CDs green to increase the bass? >>>>>Yes, they do. Works great. Thanks for asking. |
Check out the ULTRA internal speaker wiring upgrade from Von Schweikert.Thanks for the tip Geoff....not sure that I would spring for the wire but I sure would hire the marketing department....
Quite an accomplishment! |
Am I so original as I think I am for coining the term, to describe myself mind you, “Audiot?” I’ve bought isolation footers/platforms/cable risers and a few other forgettable things since joining this site, but never have I parted with thousands in the process. (Almost all of the above had to do with eliminating vibration so...) I don’t know a mosfet from a misfit, but I practice a fair degree of caution before I purchase anything - even though I sometimes buy stuff just for the hell of it, out of boredom/curiosity/having nothing significant to add to my system. Fortunately, perusing the forums here has helped me avoid the snake-oil stuff by reading the hands-on experiences by fellow members. My system is set up the same way I have been setting up my stereos since high school - it’s pictured in the Virtual Systems section here- and while I’m certain many will be taken aback by its positioning and whatnot, I think it sounds marvelous. We we all have to practice a little “forgive” for our systems. No one’s home is perfectly suited toward the artificial reproduction of music - and it IS all artificial - so while our attempts to better the sound from our gear is commendable, the second we take a seat in the room everything changes. Sometimes immeasurably, but nonetheless... I can’t move my Maggies 4 feet from the rear wall, nor can I move that wall away from them. I can turn my system on though, sit down and enjoy the tunes, sometimes wondering what I could change to hear Ginger Bakers cymbal strike sound more “real”. Then I get too comfortable and think, “Naaaaah.” |
Hi, I have been following this and similar threads ( solely from the point of view of entertainment value) and I do respect everyone’s opinion if based on first hand experience. I too am a sceptic till I hear a noticeable difference, notwithstanding the explanation as to why the difference occurs. To the person who raised the question about the Dalby clamp, has he/she ever heard a non-suspended, TT with a record clamp, leave alone the Dalby? I am not a fan of the cost but suffice to say that a clamp works wonders on a non-suspended TT and so does any form of decent isolation. I have heard it and so has every non-audiophile friend of mine who, unsolicited, told me that the record with the clamp in place sounds amazingly better in every way. Frankly I don’t even need them to tell me that. I have also heard clamps and isolation make an audible difference for the better on equipment that I don’t own just so that people here understand that this is not just owner bias. If really interested in finding out, do yourself a favor and listen to a TT with the clamp on and off and you will realise what I am saying. The caveat being it should be a non suspended TT. I am in in no hurry to spend that kind of money to buy a Dalby, but my humble request to people is to refrain from commenting on stuff they haven’t even bothered to audition. I must say though, that it does contribute to an entertaining read but it stops there. I learn nothing from such rants except about the manifestation of the frustrations of the author! cheers |
True sailing is dead. When the still sea conspires an armor And her sullen and aborted Currents breed tiny monsters True sailing is dead Awkward instant And the first animal is jettisoned Legs furiously pumping Their stiff green gallop And heads bob up Poise Delicate Pause Consent In mute nostril agony Carefully refined And sealed over |